This is short clip, highly compressed that demonstrates the instant auto focus. I had heard some bad comments about it, but it seems pretty nice the way it focus. I would like to post a couple actual .m2t files, but I don't think I can do it with the attachments provided below... I will have to see how much bandwidth I have on my site...


Chris, I've never understood those comments where people were having trouble with IAF. Mine works perfectly and is far faster and more accurate than any I've used before.

Crhis, regarding the clips, the only 2 scenes were of the bird in the tree (very nice) and what looks like that backyard scene with the swimming pool.

Ken, it should have been a about 160 megabyte download. Was yours less ?

I ve had to pull the file just now, due to bandwidth issues.... I will see what other way I can post the file.

Chris, no, it was about 29megs.

I didn't think you could play a partial down load like that.. wow. File was definitely 162,000 plus kb...

Moderator:

Given the interest in this thread, will DVinfo host some footage for me ?

Chris,
please shoot something in 24p Mode
and please upload it to www.megaupload.com

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Can the NTSC US 60 Hz model also be switched into PAL
25 frames/sec ?
Is there any hidden menu that can do this or a firmware upgrade trick ?

Okay, I will check it out.

Okay, I have uploaded the footage I previously listed to Megal upload. Check it out there, unless someone at DVinfo wants to host. Here is url:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XL96FDZ0


I will also try to post a 24 clip of about 250 megs.

This is a 24p file. Has static shot with subject moving, then a pan. It was captured to Premiere Pro 2.0 in native .m2t format. Of course, HV20 records 24p inside the 60i stream, so some processing is subsequently required to maximize the 24p benefit. Here is download url at Megaupload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LGSN70AP

Think you might have uploaded two different clips. the one on mega upload is the M&M's one. Was that shot in 24p? and did you do any color correction? Did you use natural light or additional?

EDIT:: sorry for asking 24p i see it in your post now. =)

EDIT2:: okay was the M&M shot done in 24p? =)

Two things:

Chris, is the tele-lens the authorized Canon one? I need something to extend my zoom range, so I'm wondering which one I should get for my HV20.

Second, Chris, I can absolutely set you up with server space on my server - if you know how to use FTP. Let me know, and I'll provide you space to share your HV20 footage.

Cheers!

Think you might have uploaded two different clips. the one on mega upload is the M&M's one. Was that shot in 24p? and did you do any color correction? Did you use natural light or additional?

EDIT:: sorry for asking 24p i see it in your post now. =)

EDIT2:: okay was the M&M shot done in 24p? =)


Not sure what you are indicating by M&M. This late in week I might be running a little dense. I uploaded to files to megauploads. First should download as :

HV20clips.m2v

and second should download as:

backyard24p.mpg or (.m2t)

only shot 24p on the second one. Sorry they aren't that exciting, just test shots.

Two things:

Chris, is the tele-lens the authorized Canon one? I need something to extend my zoom range, so I'm wondering which one I should get for my HV20.

Second, Chris, I can absolutely set you up with server space on my server - if you know how to use FTP. Let me know, and I'll provide you space to share your HV20 footage.

Cheers!

Robert:

Thanks for the offer. I learned a bit about FTP using my IE just a few weeks ago. If you want to email whatever access information I need, I can make an attempt. I will send this via PM email too.

Two things:

Chris, is the tele-lens the authorized Canon one? I need something to extend my zoom range, so I'm wondering which one I should get for my HV20.

Cheers!

Robert:

No. This is a teleconvertor from Sony with the HG Tag, bought for my VX2000 before HDV even arrived. I also had a cheapy 2X bought from somewhere, branded Kenko. It worked horribly on the VX2000, mainly because it claimed to be threaded for 58mm, it had a very small rear lense. Could only shoot at full telephoto, and had bad CA. I dug it out this morning, slapped it on the HV20, and was able to get a non-vignetted picture around the 1/2 tele mark. As you approach max telephoto, picture degrades with the CA , but at three quarters, not bad.

Back to the Sony 1.7 x convertor, I had shot it a full zoom on the FX1, and didn't notice any fringing. I am going to test a bit more to see if just that situation was the issue. Certainly would like to avoid buying another teleextender.

I just switched from a Sony FX-1 and HC-3 to the Canon HV20. My first reaction is that the HV20 has superior detail, a bit weaker color saturation (overcome somewhat by using the "Vivid" mode), a bit of a flimsy feel but nothing too severe, and a comfortable feel not very different from the HC-3 and vastly more comfortable to hold and carry than the FX-1.

The low light performance seems very good but not outstanding, and this seems to be the only area where the Sony FX-1 and HC-3 may do a slightly better job.

Also, the Sony HC-3 automatically reduces its' high frequency detail indoors in low light, leaving an image with less noise but also a lot less detail. The Canon preserves detail, perhaps at the expense of really outstanding low light sensitivity.

I wish I had all the cameras here at the same time to directly compare them, but only have footage from prior controlled lighting shoots which make me believe that the HV-20 still has a bit of difficulty in the low light area, but still looks very good in this regard.

Larry

Larry:

So far, I am not wild about HV20 low light either. I don't think they put that little "pen" light on it for nothing. The exception is shooting in 24p, where it seems to do better. Of course, I have fairly high expectations of cameras, being that I also own the VX2000.

Chris, nothing matches the VX2000....as an owner of one I can attest to that...except the VX2100. :)

There seems to be continued interest in what I've posted at Megaupload, with about 30 downloads of the large .m2t files, so I'm posting this one too.

It is, again, pretty pedestrian stuff. Just shot hand held with the HV20, in Cinemode, with 24p. About one minute. Instant autofocus was engaged, which I am finding pretty decent. Otherwise, I made no serious effort to manage the exposure, letting the camera do its thing.

In meantime, Robert Ducon has indicated he has space and I will try to shoot more footage taking a bit more control this weekend.

Here is url for this one: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HQQLWQHL

Latest clips: Street Basketball players in 24p, otherwise auto exposure.


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y8RJBDD0

Chris, I'm assuming you removed the pulldown for these clips?

no. I am posting raw footage as they come off the camera. It is up to you guys to do whatever magic you have. My idea was to give you something raw to work with. Its still 24p in the 1080 60i stream, as far as I know. The exception is if I have to cut, it will be rerendered, and that might be an issue. The basketball was cut, for instance.

Two files here.

First is a shot with 24p. I took the exposure selected by camera, and backed it off -5, to see what would happen in the blacks and shadows.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BIFSJ5GB

Next, I turned on Cine mode and left 24p on. One thing that does happen is Cine mode, is you lose your control of the shutter speed or f stop priority. You live with what the camera gives you there. Again, after the exposure was selected by camera, I backed it off -5.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FCKRIBH7


These file are captured raw files and not color corrected, and no pull down has occurred.

no. I am posting raw footage as they come off the camera. It is up to you guys to do whatever magic you have. My idea was to give you something raw to work with. Its still 24p in the 1080 60i stream, as far as I know. The exception is if I have to cut, it will be rerendered, and that might be an issue. The basketball was cut, for instance.

Chris, the reason I ask is that I've shot some 24p footage for fun. The footage I shot looks more 'stuttery' than yours.

One thing that does happen is Cine mode, is you lose your control of the shutter speed or f stop priority. You live with what the camera gives you there.

My hypothesis (Which is completely based in ideas in my head and not any concrete information) was that in Cine mode the camera (to enhance the 'cinema' aspect of 'cine mode') might actually lock the shutter speed at something like 1/48.

Again, this is just something that I thought might be the case, is there any way to check to see if something like this is true? Are you able to see ANY indications of a fast shutter speed when shooting something absurdly bright where the camera would be stopped down as much as possible with both NDs and then would have to resort to a high shutter speed?

I'm curious because I like the wider latitude that appeared to be present in the cine mode clips I've seen.

Thanks

Two files here.

First is a shot with 24p.

Next, I turned on Cine mode and left 24p on.

I just downloaded these files and was wondering if you're 100% sure these two files aren't switched/mis-named. I ask because the big difference I noticed in the other comparison clips I've seen was in the highlights.

In the other example clips the cine mode was lower contrast and revealed details in highlight areas that the "regular" mode captured as completely blown-out white. In your two clips, this is the opposite where the cine mode clip has the blown out whites and the non-cine-mode clip does not. The second one (coke24andcinemode.mpeg) seems to have the bright/hottest hot spot (on the can) while the first one (coke24ponly.mpeg) reveals information in that area.

Additionally, pulling a single frame into Photoshop and looking at the histogram on two other clips showed that the CINE clip not only lacked any info at 100% black and 100% white but also that the info was much more 'smooshed' into the middle. Again, your "coke24ponly.mpeg" indicates that "Cine Mode" behavior when compared to your "coke24andcinemode.mpeg"

David:

I don't think I got it backward, but I am going to just reshoot it to see if I get the same result. I was surprised as you were, because I shot some cine mode last night on my 35mm adapter, and what you indicated was true. Seemed that everything was "flatter". But when I shot this scene, I was looking to crush things on the low side a bit, and that's why I shot with both setting by running the exposure down -5 on each shot. I get back to you after I recreate the scene just to be sure.

David:

I reshot the test, and I believe it shows you were right. Somehow I got the order wrong in which I thought I shot the two scenes. I am uploading the reshoot, but the first shot on the reshoot is the 24ponly and the second is the cine mode. There is voice on the track this time to confirm. Probably will be up in about half an hour.

MEANWHILE, TO ALL THAT HAVE DOWNLOADED THEM, MY LABELS ARE BACKWARD ON THE Cine Mode and 24p only clips.

Thanks for catching that David.

Edit:

Here is reshot test footage, all on one clip: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9DMU933Y

So I've been trying to tune my DIY 35m adapter, and rigged a way to attach the HV20. Mind you, this thing is a bit unpredictable, and I have a Letus coming, but I have been able to get some images with this set up. The adapter is a rough approximation of the Micro 35 do it yourself project, that you can order plans from from Redrock.

At this point, it appears that an achromat is in order. I am using one I bought from Cinevate. Would love to actully try their adapter, but, well you know I spent my money on a camera instead. Here are picture of what I rigged up. An upload of some clips is pending and I will post.

These brief clips were shot with the Adapter described in the previous post.
Camera set at 24 p, TV. I had the shutter at 1/60. These shots were taken to learn a bit about what needs to be done to shoot with a 35mm adapter.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GQ9Z51P4

MEANWHILE, TO ALL THAT HAVE DOWNLOADED THEM, MY LABELS ARE BACKWARD ON THE Cine Mode and 24p only clips.

Thanks for catching that David.

Hey man, thank you for posting those clips.

So, the thing I noticed in other sample cinemode clips was that there were no true blacks. Even the darkest part of the frame seemed mushy to me in a dark gray but not quite black kind of way.

So I grabbed a frame and took it into photoshop and noticed that, indeed, even the darkest shadows weren't at full black. Even though it's so completely dark that there is no detail available at all, it's still not captured as true 100% black. And the histogram backs that up. There just seems to be something in the cinemode preset that puts even total absence of light up at a dark-gray area.

To me, the interesting thing about your cine mode sample is the fact that you brought the exposure down to -5. This puts the darkest areas of your frame at about 99% complete black. Much closer to what I'd want to see in an image. Knowing that the bottom end can be brought down to black through the exposure settings is good to know.

Chris just also wanted to say thanks for posting these clips - really helpful

I really like the look of the cine mode apart from the sharpness-5. The image loks a little too soft for me. I wish there were a way to keep the rest of the settings and push the hsarpness back up to 0

Anyway thanks again - kep em comng!

I really like the look of the cine mode apart from the sharpness-5. The image loks a little too soft for me. I wish there were a way to keep the rest of the settings and push the hsarpness back up to 0

I have a similar kind of feeling, although mine comes from the opposite direction. My wish would be that I could just apply the curve or gamma or whatever to the HV20's regular mode settings. After looking at the highlights in the cinemode versus the clipped whites of the same image in the regular mode, I just wish I could tweak the regular mode a bit but keep it's crispness. I like everything about the regular mode except for the complete loss of detail in the highlights.

But then I just keep in mind that it IS basically just a consumer handycam and I should be happy that it looks so good for $1000!

Not to thread-jack, but here is a link to the other comparison clips I'd been looking at. The sky in these really shows the difference between the cine mode and non cine mode and the loss of detail in regular shooting mode. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=650373&postcount=23

Just to chime in here. I've had the HV20 for five days and put it through a gamut of tests (using my eyes and flicking my fingers up and down being one of them). I think CineMode is locking the shutter at 1/24. Yes, I like the detail in the highs but 1/24 is for the birds unless you are shooting stars in the night sky. Try it, set TV mode to 1/48 and switch immediately to Cinemode while waving your fingers in front of the cam at the same rate. I've done this in various light conditions and Cinemode is always more blurry in how it handles motion. You can't even EXP up in Cinemode without even slower shutter rates kicking in. That alone tells me it is 1/24 to begin with or it would go to 1/24 as you EXP up. I use TV mode exclusively, that way I can be assured I am shooting at the correct shutter I want. Thank you Canon for TV mode without it the cam would have went back to the store. I love this cam.

Just to chime in here. I've had the HV20 for five days and put it through a gamut of tests (using my eyes and flicking my fingers up and down being one of them). I think CineMode is locking the shutter at 1/24. Yes, I like the detail in the highs but 1/24 is for the birds unless you are shooting stars in the night sky. Try it, set TV mode to 1/48 and switch immediately to Cinemode while waving your fingers in front of the cam at the same rate. I've done this in various light conditions and Cinemode is always more blurry in how it handles motion. You can't even EXP up in Cinemode without even slower shutter rates kicking in. That alone tells me it is 1/24 to begin with or it would go to 1/24 as you EXP up. I use TV mode exclusively, that way I can be assured I am shooting at the correct shutter I want. Thank you Canon for TV mode without it the cam would have went back to the store. I love this cam.


I agree Mark with respect to the Cinemode. It seems to me that you do lose some resolution, that is due to that setting, and I agree, the only thing that happens when you increase the exposure, is you get your shutter speed slowed and it looks like an old Sony VX2000 progressive mode (which was 15 fps). I haven't played with TV mode at 24 fps to see if you could match the picture.

The camera also offers various setting for certain situation under the same selection menu you select shutter or aperature priority, or Program AE or Cinemode. They include portrait, night, snow, beach, sunset, spotlight,
fireworks. We need to be analyzing these presets for various applications to.

Then you have the White balance choices, followed by image effects, which provide a lot more control then people are letting on. In that setting menu, you can go to custom, and set color depth, sharpness, contrast, and brightness.

So though they aren't under the traditional labels the pros use, there does seem to be a lot one can do to set this camera up in a manner that is satisfactory.

I am becoming more and more impressed.

May have a few more clips to post this evening, though they would be family holiday type thing.

Thanks for all the clips. I'm definitely buying the HV20! Looks absolutely incredible. I wish that I didn't have to wait like 3 hours between downloads. I tried a proxy, but I got some kind of java script error when I tried to download it.

Anyways, i'll be watching the streetball clip next. What mode would you suggest using to record paintball clips (high speed objects, lots of panning and moving)?

I set TV mode to 1/48 and switch immediately to Cinemode while waving your fingers in front of the cam at the same rate. I've done this in various light conditions and Cinemode is always more blurry in how it handles motion. You can't even EXP up in Cinemode without even slower shutter rates kicking in. That alone tells me it is 1/24 to begin with or it would go to 1/24 as you EXP up.

That's very very interesting Mark. Thanks a bunch for testing that. Since the cinemode will apparently slow the shutter down below 1/24th, are you 100% sure it won't go any faster at all? I know you said you've tried the 'finger test' in various light conditions, but have you tried it pointed at something extremely bright, like right at a light itsef? I'm not doubting you, I'm just wondering if the camera would actually stop all the way down and activate the NDs just to avoid going any faster than 1/24th

The camera also offers various setting for certain situation under the same selection menu you select shutter or aperature priority,

image effects, which provide a lot more control then people are letting on. In that setting menu, you can go to custom, and set color depth, sharpness, contrast, and brightness.

That's also very interesting to know. I wonder if you could set up a pseudo-cine mode look while avoiding the cinemode preset and get the best of both worlds by using Tv, 24p and custom settings.

I'm looking at that part of the manual now where it lists the custom settings you list above. Reported elsewhere on dvinfo, the cinemode settings are Gamma: Cine 1, Knee: Low, Black: Stretch, Sharpness: -4, Color Matrix: Cine 1, Color Gain: -20, Color Phase: +5, Red-Blue: -5, Green-Red: -5, Blue-Red: +5, and Red-Green: +12

Obviously the HV20 doesn't give you all those options to control manually, but having control over contrast, color depth and sharpness is certainly something. I guess the gamma control would be the one missing item there that could really make the difference between the cinemode pre-set and being able to roll your own.

Thanks for all the clips. I'm definitely buying the HV20! Looks absolutely incredible. I wish that I didn't have to wait like 3 hours between downloads. I tried a proxy, but I got some kind of java script error when I tried to download it.

Anyways, i'll be watching the streetball clip next. What mode would you suggest using to record paintball clips (high speed objects, lots of panning and moving)?

First thing you will have to decide is between 24p and 60i. With fast motion panning, you may find that 60i will be better. In 60i, and given the outdoor good light setting, I would try a high shutter speed to see if you can get that "Private Ryan" look. 24p has that feel too, but the pans and such, may be a problem for you. Experiment, and you may be able to shoot 24p fine in that action situation.

In another thread, the question of microphone on the camera came up. Tonight I dressed out my HV20 with Beachtek DXA-3 adpater, and mounted my Sennheiser ME66 with K6 power module on a digital slr flash bar I had. To complete the set up, in mounted my Kenko 58mm thread .65x wide angle adapter on the front. Pictures provided below.

Need Wide angle adapter ? I think so. With the bit of experience I've had with wedding shooting, I think a wide would be essential, especially in the dressing rooms scenes, and interior car scenes. I travel by car today to Easter dinner with grand kids in car, and shot them during the trip, with the wide on and wide off. Pretty tight without the wide adapter. See last two photos in group below.

I think a wide adapter should be part of your budget.

thanks for testing! i also tested mine, and in not-extremely-low light i'm 80% certain cinemode is locking the shutter to 1/48th. i tested it against 1/60th and 1/48th and 1/24th for TV mode and it looks like it matches 1/48th.



Just to chime in here. I've had the HV20 for five days and put it through a gamut of tests (using my eyes and flicking my fingers up and down being one of them). I think CineMode is locking the shutter at 1/24. Yes, I like the detail in the highs but 1/24 is for the birds unless you are shooting stars in the night sky. Try it, set TV mode to 1/48 and switch immediately to Cinemode while waving your fingers in front of the cam at the same rate. I've done this in various light conditions and Cinemode is always more blurry in how it handles motion. You can't even EXP up in Cinemode without even slower shutter rates kicking in. That alone tells me it is 1/24 to begin with or it would go to 1/24 as you EXP up. I use TV mode exclusively, that way I can be assured I am shooting at the correct shutter I want. Thank you Canon for TV mode without it the cam would have went back to the store. I love this cam.

I would be very suprised if cinemode was locked at 1/24 - my guess would be 1/48.

Can anyone confirm if there is a way to adjust the sharpness upwards in cine mode?

It's pleasing to know to that some of these "issues" could be addressed through a firmware update.

I shot my fish tank last night using a tripod and exposure compensation on -5 and what a difference it made. Using the flourescent white balance option (due to the bulb in the tank) rendered near perfect color temp. This little cam keeps amazing me everytime I use it.

It's pleasing to know to that some of these "issues" could be addressed through a firmware update.
...


Can this be done in a camcorder? How? How often has Canon posted firmware updates for their camcorders? Is the firmware shareware (some network routers are for example)? Are there any custom mods out there?

Hi Chris

After using the cam for short while I can confirm that the exposure compensation works great! It's easy to access and seems to have enough latitude.

Menu access is MUCH better than my Sony.

Regards
JohnG

Hi Chris

After using the cam for short while I can confirm that the exposure compensation works great! It's easy to access and seems to have enough latitude.

Menu access is MUCH better than my Sony.

Regards
JohnG

John:

I assume you are referring to the Sony cams that have on screen menu access, with touch screen. Of course there is nothing like buttons, dials and rings on the bigger cameras.

Still, the more I use this camera, the more amazed I am at what it does.

I tooks some video yesterday at a family Easter out door gathering. The sun was a bit filtered by light haze but still bright, and I while shooting with the camera in TV mode 24p, the auto exposure did great job of keeping everything in the viewfinder in range, and not blowing things out very often.

While the temptation with us "experts" is to fiddle with adjustments, sometime just letting the camera go once you know its idiosychrosies is a good idea.

I am amazed at how nice instant auto focus (AIF) is. I think once you know where its sweet spot is, you can pan to the subject you want to have critical focus on, let it snap in, then push the off button and be locked in on focus. And using your knowledge of that sweet spot, you can also to a damn good job of follow focus by leaving it on--- bettter than I am capable of doing in most situation using my FX1....

John:

I assume you are referring to the Sony cams that have on screen menu access, with touch screen. Of course there is nothing like buttons, dials and rings on the bigger cameras.

snip
....

Hi Chris

Yes, I was referring to the Sony 'on-screen' menu system. First off, the button access menu on the Canon is MUCH-MUCH faster. Plus, I'm not smudging up the LCD display like I do on the Sony. :-(

Thanks for the tip on the IF. I haven't used it too much.

Regards
JohnG

I shot my fish tank last night using a tripod and exposure compensation on -5 and what a difference it made. Using the flourescent white balance option (due to the bulb in the tank) rendered near perfect color temp.

Hook us up with some images, brother!

Well, I've had the camera for almost a week now, and the initial fooling around is over, and its time to get to work and make some serious images. I think I will use the camera with the upcoming DV Challenge, and see if I can come up with anything. My impressions after week one are:

1. Great thing in a small package. Images in regular daylight shooting are spectacular, even in auto mode.

2. Instant autofocus is a great tool. Learn to use it, and the need for manual focus may be reduced greatly--- and that is good because the focus wheel is pretty poor.

3. Not great in low light. The grain gets horrible fast. Needs light in common in home low light situations, or the grain will kill you. Better get a camera light on it if you are going to use it that way.

4. Adjustments to exposure are a lot more extensive than others have indicated. To me, if you explore the menus closely, you will find the ability to adjust things, approaching the point that you can with a full prosumer camera.

5. 24p. Hmmmm. I thought I could live with out it. But dang me if it isn't a neat feeling. I haven't even messed with pull down, and all of that yet, or any extensive editing with it yet, but I understand better all the hoopla over it. It definitely takes some rethinking on your pans and general camera movement. But the end result will add to the "filmic" quality we all seem to want to impart to our video productions..

6. 35mm adapter. I am starting to do some shots with the Letus 35a, just received. It is going to be interesting, trying to get the best image. I can screw the Letus35a on with the included 72mm achromat, and fill the frame, avoiding vignetting and getting a decent focus, but there isn't a lot of room to spare. I am wondering if adding a spacer might help, and I will be doing some experimenting on that basis. We shall see.

7. I will post some Letus results later this week.

8. By the way, thanks to Robert Ducon who offered to post some footage. We'll see if I can overcome my ineptness to get something posted there from the the Letus.

Okay, here is my first serious attempt at Letus35a and HV20 combo. Bought one of those "handyman" specials from Quyen, and thought I had it cleaned up pretty good. but saw I had an issue when I put it up on the bigger screen at the computer. Very small screen on camera makes it imperative that you have a good field monitor to see that sort of thing, as well as to focus. But I think that is true of any 35mm adapter set up.

This is a windows media file. Two different lenses used: First was a 50mm F1.4 Nikon, and the second was a Canon FD 24 mm F2.8. Both lenses were at about F 5.6. Rendered with compression from about a 300 megabytes to 40 plus, but still look decent. I uploaded a Megauploads:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4UCEHLIF

Looks good except the dirt on the bottom right hand area. Good stuff.

Looks good except the dirt on the bottom right hand area.

This is what scares me a bit about the Letus. I know Chris says this was one of the "handyman" specials from Quyen but I've read more than one post about dirt or stuff on the GGlass, many posts about having to take apart the letus to clean it up. There's a big leap, cost wise, between the Letus35a and the Brevis35, but I have nightmares about going out on a shoot and coming back with a chunk of something on the image.

On the other hand, it's interesting to me to hear that these were shot with an f-5.6. I've not been able to quite nail down how far you can stop down a lens with any of these adapters and still get a good image. All in all, the footage looks good (although I kept waiting for the water-spout to come into focus on that last shot. The back two bracing pieces of bamboo are really clear, but the spout is a bit off)