Any information on the next generation of Canon cameras as yet? Ive been hearing murmurs concerning a model up from the H1?

I hope not. I haven't even paid for my H1 yet...
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

A new 'generation' might be a while off. I can see some variants, a few more bells and whistles - broader lens selection maybe. Perhaps some aspects migrating 'down' into consumer models... but a 'generation' of develpments will wait for the next big technological breakthrough.

And I think that's all about storage. Getting UNCOMPRESSED HD down into manageable CHEAP storage is the next 'generation'. Some might argue it's here... but that's what forums are for. When someone comes up with a way t record uncompressed HD on a disc/chip/plate/saucer that will store an hour for about twenty five dollars... you'll see a "new generation" of cameras being developed around it.

The more I think about it, RED is the 'next generation' in HD. And you still have storage issues. But when RED hits the market mainstream, that MIGHT prompt some redevelopment on the part of the big companies... it will be exciting to see.

an XL-H1s maybe?

I hope not. I haven't even paid for my H1 yet...
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

I haven't paid for mine or yours completely either!

:)

Jeremiah,

I wouldn't see an 's' version of the XLH1 as a 'new' generation... the original topic of the post. Any slight modifications to the cam would constitute the 's' designation. (Or 'a' or 'b' or whatever)

An entirely 'new generation' would require a radical change in technology, format or aquisition medium. Like going from SD to HDV.

Can't understand why Canon don't produce another slightly more expensive model in addition to the H1 which doesn't use HDV. They would seriously compete with the Sonys and Panasonics of this world.

I'm not following you Andrew. More expensive than what? The XL2? The move is on towards various forms of HD in the industry. Canon has already stated that the XL2 will be it's last SD model. Are you suggesting they make 1/3inch SD model? That wouldn't make much sense at this point. No, the next 'generation' will be defined by what RED is able to accomplish, and whoever designs an inexpensive storage solution for UNCOMPRESSED HD.

They would seriously compete with the Sonys and Panasonics of this world.Keep in mind that Sony and Panasonic are two of Canon's best customers (Canon is one of the industry's primary suppliers of broadcast video lenses).

Any information on the next generation of Canon cameras as yet? Ive been hearing murmurs concerning a model up from the H1?

Im guessing Summer 08 :-) IMO it will probably be just a few tweeks here and there, nothing major.

the next 'generation' will be defined by ... whoever designs an inexpensive storage solution for UNCOMPRESSED HD.

Why does anyone need UNCOMPRESSED HD? If you can not tolerate lossy compression artifacts, why not use lossless compression?

Best,
Christopher

Agreed -- it's the Law of Diminishing Returns. Why would anyone need uncompressed, when a variety of very efficient high-quality lossless codecs already exist? The future isn't uncompressed HD, but the exact opposite... higher compression and lower bit rates.

The advantage of the raw uncompressed HD output over SDI available on the XL H1 (and XH A1) isn't the fact that it's uncompressed, but rather that it's so easily recordable by a variety of VTRs in various compressed formats... HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, etc.

Richard, I was referring to another model more expensive than the H1 that doesn't have the limitations of HDV compression. It would have to have a form of compression comparable to that used by the more pro cameras that would allow for broadcast quality.

more expensive than the H1 that doesn't have the limitations of HDV compression.

Well, didn't we only need a portable device which stored (and compressed) the HD-SDI signal on hard disk? For example, a (reasonably priced and)portable version of the Wafian recorder with Cineform codec or eqv. would immediately make the HDV tape recorder of the XL H1 unemployed. In my view the HD-SDI is one of the best features of the camera; There is a chance XL H1 remains a high quality camera for a good time.

The new SI concept is rather interesting in suggesting that maybe in the future there will be separated camera and storage units. If so, then it will be up to the user to to decide which HD bandwith is used to store the signal.

I think that it's possible, after the introduction of the Sony HVR-V1, that there may be an intermediate "s" version that utilizes chips capable of true 24p capture.. This would not require a major manufaturing retool, and would probably sell well even to people who already own an H1... But it could happen with the A1 first...

As for tapeless options, we're probably stuck with HDV for a while, even if it is recorded to a drive.. but it's not all that bad actually... Portable HD-SDI recording sollutions will probably come to the aftermarket before Canon builds them...

My guess is that the H1s or H2 will use CMOS chips. Canon's already producing them en mass. I think the A1, G1 and H1 are the last of the CCD cameras from Canon.

I second the HD-SDI recorder.. I'm really surprised that portable units don't exist yet.. I'm currently employed as a software engineer at a video server company.. I don't know, and I don't claim to know alot about compression or video signals.. but I've discussed it with one of the brain trusts I work with who does and there really appears to be no real limiting technology, it could all be done with a raid array of laptop drives, small portable, and really not needing any huge bank of battieries. My guess is that there really isn't enough money in it to get too many companies very excited at this point, or its an undiscovered market.

Oh yeah.. another thing.. I'd like a camera that could look into the future. That would be cool.

Brian

I second the HD-SDI recorder.

Yes, an HD-SDI recorder that lets you dial in the compression. If it's a chroma key clip, then select lossless compression. If an HDV bit rate is adequate, then select that to store more video.

Best,
Christopher

we only need a portable device which stored (and compressed) the HD-SDI signal on hard disk

I second the HD-SDI recorder.. I'm really surprised that portable units don't exist yet.. [snip] small portable, and really not needing any huge bank of battieries.

Yes, an HD-SDI recorder that lets you dial in the compression. If it's a chroma key clip, then select lossless compression. If an HDV bit rate is adequate, then select that to store more video.


I can't say too much at the present moment, but we have been working diligently for a while, and will be announcing something significant on Feb 1st.

For those unfamiliar, "we," would be Colorspace -- http://www.colorspaceinc.com

As several of you likely know, we've been developing a new generation of digital cinema camera systems. As our product page notes, we're also building solid-state and hard-disk based recorder systems. Our focus continues to be on building rugged, intuitive, cost-effective products that empower filmmakers of all types.

For those who want to be updated on the exact details of a product that is specifically germaine to this thread: prosumer@colorspaceinc.com

-Adam "Gee, this XL-H1 feels so front-heavy, I wish I had a small box I could bolt onto the back of it..." Burtle