Got it John, makes sense. I'm sure you'll love the HV20!

As mentioned earlier, this is not a PRO camera!

Agreed, Canon may not be marketing it this way, but once you attach a 35mm adapter to it with a follow focus unit, a matte box and a better microphone, would it still not be a pro camera? Add a decent tripod + shoulder rig and the overall package would still end costing less than a so called 'pro' camera.

At the end of the day it's not about what camera you use, it's what you can do with the camera you use. I can't see anything that would be stopping someone from shooting a feature film using one or more HV20's. Unlike the XHA1/G1, or even the XLH1, they're true 24P with a 1920x1080 sensor.

A year or so ago I remember DV magazine testing out a bunch of HD cameras including Sony's top of the line CineAlta F900. I'd love to see the HV20 in that line up and how it's results compare to the others.

Got it John, makes sense. I'm sure you'll love the HV20!

Would place the image of this camera or the HV-10, any day, next to the feeds that I get from the HD Discovery channel even using the component output to my Sammy 56" DLP....God only knows what I'll get when a feed it the HDMI output. Amazing.

Luis

Agreed, Canon may not be marketing it this way, but once you attach a 35mm adapter to it with a follow focus unit, a matte box and a better microphone, would it still not be a pro camera? Add a decent tripod + shoulder rig and the overall package would still end costing less than a so called 'pro' camera.

At the end of the day it's not about what camera you use, it's what you can do with the camera you use. I can't see anything that would be stopping someone from shooting a feature film using one or more HV20's. Unlike the XHA1/G1, or even the XLH1, they're true 24P with a 1920x1080 sensor.

A year or so ago I remember DV magazine testing out a bunch of HD cameras including Sony's top of the line CineAlta F900. I'd love to see the HV20 in that line up and how it's results compare to the others.

Twice now folks have posted what seems like a negative statements from me about the HV20, ie: not a Pro camera and not your prime #1 Pro camera etc..

They are not negative at all! I was just a little irritated that people were complaining that it did not have this or that pro feature. This little camera rocks, it is awesome!

Mike

Whoa, some pretty heavenly statements for this little camera. Yes, I think it is great (resolution) and will fool most people when they see the image it can produce.

Compared to, say, a DSR-250 the average joe would assume the 250 would offer greater detail, resolution, etc. I'd not consider pitting the HV20 agianst a F950, but, for a consumer, it's near impossible to get this kind of resolution under $1500. Sure, it'd be nice to see where it stacks up. This thread should be called the "Praise the mighty HV20" or such now.

Sorry Mike, it wasn't specifically directed at you! Just the statement.

Just to let you know, my HV10 did the EXACT same thing this past weekend, it only lasted for 4-5 minutes... I turned off instant-autofocus and it seemed to do a better job, then I switched back to I-AF and it was perfect again..

Honestly don't know what caused it, but I don't think the HV20 is to blame...

Would place the image of this camera or the HV-10, any day, next to the feeds that I get from the HD Discovery channel even using the component output to my Sammy 56" DLP....God only knows what I'll get when a feed it the HDMI output. Amazing.

Luis

It is that Luis, it is that! Having owned the HC1, HC3, FX1 and FX7, I honestly feel the image the HV10 & HV20 produces is the best of the bunch. I find myself getting more and more tired of Sony's edge enhancement and the artifacts it produces. I really think Canon got it right with these units.

Sorry Mike, it wasn't specifically directed at you! Just the statement.

Glenn,

Don't worry, what you said was fine, I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew I thought this camera was great.

You know, I have found one little problem. The way the door or flap for the HDMI port opens it is not going to last very long. Does not have enough give so that it can be moved out of the way. It is kind of bending the cap and that is not good. Horder to close after use have it hooked for a while. Anyone else notice this? I sure would not return the camera for that!!! I still have gaffer's tape! :)

Mike

Mike, I think you hit on the one annoyance I've found with the HV20. Pretty short list, but still you'd think Canon would have realized this was not the way to cover a port door.

Just took it out today and shot some outdoor street scenes here in NYC.

Oh my God...some of this stuff looks as almost as good as the travel videos on PBS! [I'm using Rudy Maxa's Smart Travels as a reference in terms of picture quality]

The footage from the true 24p Cinema mode really screams "pro" to me. I just can't believe I shot that stuff myself!

It really has to be appreciated on a big tube CRT.

This is a groundbreaking camcorder for this price point.

The question I have to ask again...is there a way to lock exposure? Edit: I guess I can...have to experiment some more.

Mike, I think you hit on the one annoyance I've found with the HV20. Pretty short list, but still you'd think Canon would have realized this was not the way to cover a port door.

Well, I thought it might be just mine, but I guess not. The small tab at the bottom needs to be able to fold out more, slip out of the hole more. This cover will not hold up.

Are you listening Canon? Longer tab to slip out, or a lower durometer reading on the rubber so that it will bend easily.

Gee, I guess when it breaks off I'll buy another HV20. :) :)

Mike

Well, I thought it might be just mine, but I guess not. The small tab at the bottom needs to be able to fold out more, slip out of the hole more. This cover will not hold up.

Are you listening Canon? Longer tab to slip out, or a lower durometer reading on the rubber so that it will bend easily.

Gee, I guess when it breaks off I'll buy another HV20. :) :)

Mike

Same here Mike, the rubber cap of the HDMI port is kind of "wacky" it needs a little push at the top to close well. The Mic port cover is much better.
Well what the heck a let them skimp a little on that as long as they don't do it with PQ.

Luis

Second thought, maybe we can make a large housing for it that looks like a big pro camera, or gut an old bulky big camera and stick the HV20 inside!!!Good thought, but how are you going to reach the buttons on the camera if it is inside a box? :) I think a 35mm adapter, lens, mattebox, rails, shoulder mount, microphone, etc. will make it look pro enough. If not pro, then at least very different.

At the end of the day it's not about what camera you use, it's what you can do with the camera you use. I can't see anything that would be stopping someone from shooting a feature film using one or more HV20's. Unlike the XHA1/G1, or even the XLH1, they're true 24P with a 1920x1080 sensor.Right. I think the HV20 would be even more suited for feature films than for documentaries and such since the manual controls are not so easily managed on the HV20 as they are on the XH-A1 for instance. Feature film = more time to carefully setup your camera right for each shot.

Just took it out today and shot some outdoor street scenes here in NYC.

Oh my God...some of this stuff looks as almost as good as the travel videos on PBS! [I'm using Rudy Maxa's Smart Travels as a reference in terms of picture quality]

The footage from the true 24p Cinema mode really screams "pro" to me. I just can't believe I shot that stuff myself!

It really has to be appreciated on a big tube CRT.

This is a groundbreaking camcorder for this price point.

The question I have to ask again...is there a way to lock exposure? Edit: I guess I can...have to experiment some more.


Very exciting stuff!
Is there any chance you could upload some raw 24p footage with cinema mode on? Filefactory etc is free.

Many thanks
Fergus

Very exciting stuff!
Is there any chance you could upload some raw 24p footage with cinema mode on? Filefactory etc is free.

Many thanks
Fergus

Here is the first link. It is a shot of Grand Street in NYC. 61mb in size.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/373172/

Just watch out for the pop ups on this site.

This is raw from the camera file.

Here is the first link. It is a shot of Grand Street in NYC. 61mb in size.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/373172/

Just watch out for the pop ups on this site.

This is raw from the camera file.

Thanks, downloading now! It's a .ts file? I thought raw was .m2t?

Mike

Here is one more:

This is a shot of a street in Chinatown, NYC.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/87c449/

This one is 47 megs in size.

And here is one more 45 megs in size

http://www.filefactory.com/upc/138961


These file have not gone thru any reencoding... just a file extension matter after I cut out just the segment I wanted and saved the segment from MPEG Streamclip.

Thanks for the clips, John! One question, in the Canal clip, did you edit those two clips together, or was the shot change in-camera?

The reason I ask is, I'm playing with reverse telecine in Cinema Tools in anticipation of buying this camera, and I noticed that the pulldown signature changed between shots. If it's the latter, then pulldown removal is going to be quite a chore!

i've been using the HDV - intermediate codec work flow in FCP and when it imports the clips the pulldown pattern starts randomly on different clips. there are a couple ways to tackle it. you chop off x amount of each clip so that the cadence is the same through out, or you process each individually. i've been doing it individually. linked is a read me that has the cadences and the according cinema tools option.

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/reverse%20telecine%20READ%20ME.rtf

check out the clips i've got in there too...

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/

there might be a way to capture as HDV instead of AIC that doesn't create new clips at any timecode break, then convert that long clip to AIC. perhaps processing everything as one big file the cadence might stay intact. the HDV workflow is very new to me. i need to hop onto the apple FCP boards and see what's up over there. i'm sure the HV20 is being discussed...

Thanks for the clips, John! One question, in the Canal clip, did you edit those two clips together, or was the shot change in-camera?

The reason I ask is, I'm playing with reverse telecine in Cinema Tools in anticipation of buying this camera, and I noticed that the pulldown signature changed between shots. If it's the latter, than pulldown removal is going to be quite a chore!

The shot change was done in camera.

John, Austin

Thanks so much for taking the trouble to upload the clips. I am just looking at them now (my PC struggles with 1080p h.264 though!)

Any chance you could upload any raw samples showing a comparrison between the cine preset being on and off?

Thanks again

Hi, I share the excitement =) Thanks John, great to see an HV20 in action. Also, said it before, will say again, can't wait to hold my very own HV20. Will have to wait 3-4 weeks here in NL however...

Still, I found this post particularly interesting:

Just to let you know, my HV10 did the EXACT same thing this past weekend, it only lasted for 4-5 minutes... I turned off instant-autofocus and it seemed to do a better job, then I switched back to I-AF and it was perfect again..

Honestly don't know what caused it, but I don't think the HV20 is to blame...

Joe, what were the circumstances and could you keep us posted on when this happens and whether the IAF off/on trick solves it every time?

john I forgot to ask if your samples were taken with the cine preset on? They look a touch softer than the other 24p samples I have seen and I just wondered if that could be due to the sharpness setting being lowered within the preset?

Thanks

I was playing with the cine preset shooting outdoors at night and I found it does soften the picture quite a bit. On the other hand it does tend to virtually eliminate any grain.

shot on a patched together color/rez chart. doubt the colors are accurate out of the printer. but it's a reference

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/image%20test%20cine.mov


also you other guys shooting, i think i'm having issues with the OIS, does anybody have any handheld walking around footage?

these are some of issues i'm having

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/hv20%20issues%20720p.mov

let me know.

Thanks for the colour/rez chart Austin. The cinemode defnitely softens the image which reduces resolution.

I think personally I am more likely to shoot without the cine preset, dial down the exposure a couple and use Magic Bullet look suite in Vegas

Without a LANC and tripod, you'll have a pretty tough time shooting pro stuff.
I like how it looks, etc, but the lack of a LANC will be a deal-killer for many. This is probably the plan...to get you to upgrade to the next level with LANC.

Very professional footage can be shot with a tripod sans LANC.

In regards to the HV20 missing a LANC port, how easy is it to use the zoom controls on the LCD screen with the camera on a tripod/monopod?

In regards to the HV20 missing a LANC port, how easy is it to use the zoom controls on the LCD screen with the camera on a tripod/monopod?

Couldn't you also use the zoom controls on the remote?

In regards to the HV20 missing a LANC port, how easy is it to use the zoom controls on the LCD screen with the camera on a tripod/monopod?

Not sure you would want to use the screen control but the top control is very accessable and does not require much effort to move. It won't move the camera.

In addition, it comes with a nice remote control. It might not work from the rear, but from the side and toward the front it works. You then have zoom and start stop etc..

With a small mounted mirror, you could do it all from behind the camera.

Most zooming in and out is done for frameing and not for effect, at least for me anyway.

Mike

I see Mike beat me to it on the remote, I had to take some phone calls while typing and he beat me! :)

Mike

Sure you can...but have you seen the remote? It's like 20 buttons crammed on a little stick. Most consumer cams don't include the focus feature either. This is why the pro's rig is setup with a properly positioned and simplified controller to get studio-like movement and focus without taking their eyes off the subject.

Sure you can...but have you seen the remote? It's like 20 buttons crammed on a little stick. Most consumer cams don't include the focus feature either. This is why the pro's rig is setup with a properly positioned and simplified controller to get studio-like movement.

Again, this is not a Pro Camera.

I don't know about your lanc, but my Varizoom is about half the size of the HV20's remote, and the controls are no larger. This remote fits my hand perfectly.

Mike :)

I only read the first page and got the gist of what I think is going on.

The internet is a powerful marketing tool and it can be used against others also. I'll reserve judgement till a known credible poster makes a detailed review.

This counter marketing happens all the time on BBs.

I only read the first page and got the gist of what I think is going on.

The internet is a powerful marketing tool and it can be used against others also. I'll reserve judgement till a known credible poster makes a detailed review.

This counter marketing happens all the time on BBs.

I don't understand are you talking about? Can you explain.

Mike

I only read the first page and got the gist of what I think is going on.

The internet is a powerful marketing tool and it can be used against others also. I'll reserve judgement till a known credible poster makes a detailed review.

This counter marketing happens all the time on BBs.

Doug, the rest of the thread is pretty positive. Don't judge till you read the rest - this is one of the most sensible forums I've ever seen on the net. Very well monitored. Kudos to DVinfo!

Doug, the rest of the thread is pretty positive. Don't judge till you read the rest - this is one of the most sensible forums I've ever seen on the net. Very well monitored. Kudos to DVinfo!

I believe he is trying to insinuate that a negitive post was made so that a bunch of folks would post positive and defensive posts.

I don't believe that is what happened here though. I think someone either got a defective camera or made a hasty judgement on it. The post or thread was an honest one either way.

The rest of us have had very positive views of the HV20.

Mike

It's funny, my interpretation was that he was insinuating that one or two posters were trying to scare potential Canon buyers away. Whatever, it's pretty obvious the first poster was having a problem that most others were not.

I question the veracity of the original post. To be blunt, I think it's a story written to discredit the camera right out of the shoot. I might start to believe it if this is still a viable topic in a few months. I appreciate those who gave sincere replys.

An internet BB 'drive-by'.

Well I think it's obvious that the title of the thread should be changed. No doubt the original poster returned the HV20 after one hour, but the reason was not "due to bad autofocus design." It was instead perhaps due to unrealistic expectations or unfamiliarity with how the camcorder is designed to operate. I'll come up with some suitable revision for a more appropriate thread title.

Well I think it's obvious that the title of the thread should be changed. No doubt the original poster returned the HV20 after one hour, but the reason was not "due to bad autofocus design." It was instead perhaps due to unrealistic expectations or unfamiliarity with how the camcorder is designed to operate. I'll come up with some suitable revision for a more appropriate thread title.

Thanks, Chris!

I think that would be appropriate, all things considered.

Mike

Well I think it's obvious that the title of the thread should be changed. No doubt the original poster returned the HV20 after one hour, but the reason was not "due to bad autofocus design." It was instead perhaps due to unrealistic expectations or unfamiliarity with how the camcorder is designed to operate. I'll come up with some suitable revision for a more appropriate thread title.

Me too, and thanks Chris! Yes the title of this thread got screwed around and maybe should be changed.

I await your modification. See you at NAB.

Mike

Thread title changed from "Returning HV20 after 1 hour due to bad autofocus design" to "Returning HV20 after 1 hour." We know for a fact that the "Returning HV20 after 1 hour" part is true. The "bad autofocus design" part is an obfuscation. There is nothing wrong with the autofocus design on the HV20, and it is highly unlikely that there was anything at all wrong with this particular HV20. Hope this helps,

Thread title changed from "Returning HV20 after 1 hour due to bad autofocus design" to "Returning HV20 after 1 hour." We know for a fact that the "Returning HV20 after 1 hour" part is true. The "bad autofocus design" part is an obfuscation. There is nothing wrong with the autofocus design on the HV20, and it is highly unlikely that there was anything at all wrong with this particular HV20. Hope this helps,

Perfect! Now If I can just get mine sometime this week.

I'll be happy to post some footage as well.

If anyone wants to beat me to the "really low light footage" please feel free. ;)

Cheers,

Mike

Well I think it's obvious that the title of the thread should be changed. No doubt the original poster returned the HV20 after one hour, but the reason was not "due to bad autofocus design." It was instead perhaps due to unrealistic expectations or unfamiliarity with how the camcorder is designed to operate. I'll come up with some suitable revision for a more appropriate thread title.

I don't even think 'unrealistic expectations' fits, because the camera does focus quickly and accurately whether you're zooming or not. This was true of the HV10 and remains true with the HV20. In fact I'm not sure what I could do to simulate the 'problem' she had.....cover the lens with my hand, cover the instant autofocus window????

Mine 'seemed' to have this exact same focus problem for about two minutes. I know cameras don't have a tabula rasa type brain but honestly . . . I think the camera somehow adjusted its ability to focus properly. For those who have an HV20 coming I'd be curious if you have the same experience.

I tell ya, I was so impressed with this footage from the HV20 with the Brevis adapter http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=479 that I'm thinking I gots to get me one o' these. I could make great use of the 24p cinema mode. I imagine myself riding the crouded trains of Manhattan, having the talent do their thing while I shoot way without anyone even noticing I'm carrying a camera in my inconspicuous little bag. To quote our friend from the Brevis forum the HV-20 "got the 'stealth' mojo working hard"

P.S: strike the "X"...lol

If anyone wondering, Camcorderinfo’s review of the HV20 is up and they claim that the auto focusing is indeed better than the HC7’s.

If only I have spent more than a few minutes trying out the Canon HV20 I would have found out if the auto focus is better than the Panasonic AG-HSC1U that I tried for about an hour.