http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/03/15/blu-ray-takes-the-lead.aspx?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

According to an article in Home Media Magazine, which references research done by Understanding & Solutions, for each HD-DVD movie sold, consumers are springing for three Blu-ray titles. High-definition movie sales have done a 180-degree turn since the PS3 launch: Before the PS3 came out, HD-DVD movies outsold their Blu-ray counterparts by about three to one.

Thank GOD. Now I hope HD-DVD has a nice swift painless death...

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/03/15/blu-ray-takes-the-lead.aspx?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

It is just the PS3 launch maybe. We will see and time will tell.

Thank GOD. Now I hope HD-DVD has a nice swift painless death...

Why? The general consensus from movie buffs is that HD DVD looks better and it certainly is cheaper from a production and player standpoint.

It is just the PS3 launch maybe. We will see and time will tell.

It's not even the PS3 that has caused this. Thus far into 2007 we've seen a very lax release schedule for HD DVD.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html

Note that there are no releases scheduled until March 27th. There were no releases last Tuesday. Jan/Feb/March has been a wasteland of releases for the most part.

Now I understand why this may be. It was late 2006 that word got out about the cracking of AACS (Content encryption) for HD DVD and next Blu-ray. The studios have been silent about this but the whispers are that until the piracy issues are quelled some releases will be delayed and Fox has done just that choosing to delay roughly 10-15 titles until a later date.

Universal, Warner and Paramount seem to be taking a cautious approach towards movie releases as well. Things pick up in April however so perhaps there's an end in sight.

Make no bones about it I'm an HD DVD supporter. When it comes to HD product if I can get the best price AND the best quality then I'm there.

Why? The general consensus from movie buffs is that HD DVD looks better and it certainly is cheaper from a production and player standpoint.

LOL sorry to debate this, but HD DVD better? running the same codecs and bitrates, they should be identical.. the only differences being the output options and the D/A converter for component output.. if runnign direct HDMI they theoretically shoudl be identical..

in addition BD is teh only format which has the advantage of offering Dolby Digital TrueHD which will rearely be seen in HD DVD due to capacity..

this debate can go on and on and on.. but lets face it, the PS3 has an inherant user base of over 1million users worldwide.. within the year the fact of having a PS3 in a household automatically puts BD in front as manufacturers will up the ante for BD content to appease these users demands..

It is just the PS3 launch maybe. We will see and time will tell.

Yes, after Sony has sold 30 to 60 times more PS3's. PS2 gave DVD a major kick in the pants, this is why they "had" to have Blu-ray in the PS3. We, in the gaming industry, wondered why the release schedule for the PS3 was so far out, and when it came time to release, what was the hold ups, waiting for Blu-ray components. In the end of the day blu-ray component pricing might drop severely so they can maintain there PS3 gain, but the rumor mill is that an revised XBOX360 is coming out with HD-DVD. So, goign down kicking and screaming. I wonder if they will produce a dual format player that could be used in the xbox360.

If I remember correctly, aren't they using better compression on Bluray discs now than they did initially?

In the end, I just want something to win because I want HD quality now!!! =D

They tried Mpeg2, but noise and grain aren't conducive to compression, so I think I read that they now use compression similar to HD-DVD.

LOL sorry to debate this, but HD DVD better? running the same codecs and bitrates, they should be identical.. the only differences being the output options and the D/A converter for component output.. if runnign direct HDMI they theoretically shoudl be identical..

in addition BD is teh only format which has the advantage of offering Dolby Digital TrueHD which will rearely be seen in HD DVD due to capacity..

this debate can go on and on and on.. but lets face it, the PS3 has an inherant user base of over 1million users worldwide.. within the year the fact of having a PS3 in a household automatically puts BD in front as manufacturers will up the ante for BD content to appease these users demands..

Blu-rays initial titles were 25GB using MPEG2. BDs initial launch titles did not look good The Fifth Element, Hitch, House of Flying Daggers and more all had artifacts. Robocop was removed from stores because it looked so bad. HD DVD launched with solid titles because VC-1 exceeded expectations.

thing to remember is that BOTH formats are capable of each others encoded formats.. be it VC-1 or MPG2

In addition, it wont be long before Dual layered BD's are used... especially when DD TrueHD is in use..

I really don't care which one wins anymore. I just want one format settled upon so player, recorder, and media prices will drop enough to bring the format to the mainstream.

I really don't care which one wins anymore. I just want one format settled upon so player, recorder, and media prices will drop enough to bring the format to the mainstream.

couldnt have said it better myself..

As some of you have mentioned, the original titles were MPEG2 but I have looked in the back of some Blu-Ray titles and its only 18mbps of MPEG2. Some of later versions were still 18mbps but this time using H.264 that produced a much better picture. The newest titles are going upward of 40mbps of H.264. The other reason for Blu-Ray titles looking like crap back then was because of the defective Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-Ray player that produced a soft image. At least Samsung is coming out with a much, much better version the BD-P1200 with very good picture enhancements and HDMI 1.3 compliant.

With future consumer Blu-Ray camcorders coming from Panasonic, Sony and Hitachi, Blu-Ray will be doing very well if you ask me.

The rumor of the new XBOX-360 with a built in HD-DVD player is the only thing that can prolong this war much further. Knowing Microsoft, they do want Blu-Ray defeated so releasing such a system wouldn’t surprise me at all.

BLU-RAY VS HD-DVD - SOFTWARE UNIT SALES RATIO (3/4/07 - VideoScan):

Year to Date:
Blu-ray Disc: 100
HD-DVD: 48.73

Format(s) to Date
Blu-ray Disc: 100
HD-DVD: 91.46

Movie titles only (videogame titles not included) - Includes HD-DVD/DVD Combo Format

Source: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/index.html#cema
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom031107/index.php (graphic on second page)

So at the moment for every 100 Blu-ray discs sold, only 48.73 HD-DVD discs are sold. Even since inception more Blu-ray discs have now been sold than HD-DVD discs.

Doesn't mean Blu-ray is the winner yet. Like others I hope one will win and wins soon.

A couple things.

Yes, the PS3 is was a large factor and is probably the only reason Blu Ray has sales at all. The stand alone players still are not selling as well as HD DVD. Another huge factor is the movie releases in the past few months. HD DVD just hasn't been releasing much. This changes as of March 27th. In gets better in May too, Universal has announced a massive amount of titles and we shall see how the war is then.
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html

My guess is that the PS3 sales will soon level off and it will be up to the stand alone players. You cannot place your whole formats existence on a game concole.

I love HD DVD simply because I can burn Red Lazer HD DVD's through DVD Studio Pro of my own content and because of the combo discs. I have two players (XBOX and Toshiba HD-A2) and one is in my room on the other in my grandmothers. My parents still use regualr dvd on their big screen SD tv. My little brother watches regular dvd, so when I buy a movie like "Happy Feet," I want it to be able to play on both. The quality between the Blu Ray and HD DVD is the same as long as you are comparing like encoding specs.

In Europe, HD DVD is outselling by about 85%. Source: http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20070308PD200.html. The European markets will not cave so easily to Blu Ray due to money.

Also, it will be interesting to see if Apple releases HD movies on iTunes. This will be great for me, because then I can get Disney and Lionsgate support as well as my HD DVD studios and have everything but Fox and Sony.

I really get the feeling though that both formats will eventually exist. The combo drives are starting to appear, and Warner is releasing their "Total HD" discs that play both. Either way though, I am on the HD DVD side for now. If Apple doesn't release HD movies on iTunes by May, I probably will get a Blu Ray player as well so I don't have to deal with this.

It really doesn't matter which one loses for me. If my HD DVD format loses, I still have the same quality movies and a player. They will still look great and play. No need to buy them again.

I totally agree with your post Steve. I'm not a fan of Blu-ray because I don't find it to be the most consumer friendly.

Blu-ray has 3 forms of copy protection :

AACS- Just like HD DVD
BD+ - which rides on top of AACS but can do things like disable your player
ROM Mark- marks the disc so that hopefully pirate discs can be tracked
Region Encoding- Prevents certain discs from playing in some regions.

HD DVD has :

AACS

Now you tell me what format is most likely supporting consumer Fair Use right more? The ideal situation is for people to pull their heads from their @$$ and support HD DVD because in the end the studios are going to go where the money is. If that's HD DVD you're going to get the benefits of a player with the most features, lowest cost and least amount of restrictions. Who doesn't want that?

I like HD DVD for the same reasons, lower priced players and the ability to burn your own content on low cost 4.7gig DVD-Rs.

I read an interview where it states that it costs $5,000 for a glass master plus $2.50 to replicate each Blu-Ray Disc, while it only cost $2,500 for a HD DVD glass master and $1.10 per disc. Chump change for the big studios I guess, but might be a consideration for smaller producers.

I do hope universal players become the norm and this "war" becomes irrelevant. I only paid $299 for my Toshiba player and the new ones are selling for $398.

If and when, Sony comes out with a player at the magic price point for $299,[my price point anyway] I will probably get one. Sony just announced one for $599.

I understand China will be making HD DVD players...hope that drives the costs of the players down even more.

I read an interview where it states that it costs $5,000 for a glass master plus $2.50 to replicate each Blu-Ray Disc, while it only cost $2,500 for a HD DVD glass master and $1.10 per disc. Chump change for the big studios I guess, but might be a consideration for smaller producers.

http://wesleytech.com/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-replication-costs-revealed/111/
It’s a bit over a month old but still informative.

I was watching a Blu-Ray demo at the Navy Exchange last week, and was surprised at what I saw.

Actually, "disappointed" is the word.

It looked like the content was poorly encoded.

Upon close inspection you could see that there was excessive sharpening "halos" at the edges. There was a considerable amount of "mosquito noise" as well. And in the titles, the curves of the text weren't clean, with stair-step aliasing apparent.

My brother-in-law was interested in getting HD soon but I told him to wait. HD images should look a LOT better than what he was seeing on that screen. I don't know if it was the player, the set or the encoded material off the disk. But it sure didn't look anything like what I was getting from my HVX-200.

Dean Sensui,
Unless it was playing off the defective Samsung player than the only other reason for the picture looking that bad could be because the demo was only 18mbps of Mpeg2. Like I mentioned earlier, the older titles used that so maybe this demo suffered the same fate.

http://wesleytech.com/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-replication-costs-revealed/111/
It’s a bit over a month old but still informative.

Thanks Paul.

From that article, it looks like they cost about the same to replicate.

I can also see now how much "profit" is built into these things...most of the new generation format movies are averaging around $26-35 each.

On a side note, Circuit City/Best Buy are always having weekly sales of older movies on DVD from around $4-6bucks a piece. And on DVD these things still look great. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next year or so.

Dean Sensui,
Unless it was playing off the defective Samsung player than the only other reason for the picture looking that bad could be because the demo was only 18mbps of Mpeg2. Like I mentioned earlier, the older titles used that so maybe this demo suffered the same fate.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking (hoping). It was playing off a Sony Blu-Ray player and to a Sony LCD display. I know it's not the display and I hope it's not the player.

If I were Sony I'd have the local reps hunt down any older demos and replace them with something that's a lot better.

That said, a couple of other people looking at this were saying "Wow, look at that!" So maybe what's unacceptable to some might be impressive to others.

Anyone who sees crappy BluRay is seeing just that... Crappy BluRay. BluRay can look very good, every bit as good as HD-DVD and theoretically better. Both disc formats use the exact same codecs and file structure, it' sonly the laser mechanism and menu/media systems that differ between the two. Let's consider Studios like TimeWarner who support both formats and are now set to release "TOTAL-HD" discs, which have BluRay on one side and HD-DVD on the other. In their press conference introducing TOTAL-HD, they said it's the best compromise or solution right now because the studios only have to create one copy of the film in a supported codec like VC1 or H.264. Then they create a unique menu system (and other interactive content, if necessary) for each format.

I've seen my share of crappy BluRay, but I've also seen a lot of crappy HD-DVD. Anyone who says HD-DVD is superior, obviously hasn't taken a good look at BluRay or they are biased. Sony didn't do themselves any favors with the first crop of BluRay titles all being low bit-rate, single layer, MPEG2 transfers. Essentially they were higher resolution than standard DVD, but with proportionately more compression with the same ancient codec. I also had to laugh at most of the BluRay demonstrations I saw at various events (even with actual Sony reps there conducting the demo), that they would run junk MPEG2 video clips. They would show snippets of films like Spider-Man 2, which was obviously up-converted DVD. Sad, really. Very poor marketing. It's as if Sony just expected everyone to go "WOW!" just because it was a new Sony product. And you know what, most of the audience did. Sadly, most people, even A/V pros attending these events have not seen a good upconverted DVD feed on a properly calibrated 70" SXRD. It looks better than most broadcast HD, so most people had no idea they weren't looking at the true potential of BluRay.

Personally, I don't like Sony. I don't like their marketing hype, I don't like the way they develop and release products, etc.. But all things considered, I hope BluRay actually wins the format war. It is (sadly) the superior format for a great many reasons beyond delivering movies in HD. As far as a movie format, BluRay and HD-DVD are dead even. BluRay does have the advantage with their Java menu and multimedia system, but so far no titles really take advantage of that. And I personally don't care (I assume most people don't). I just want to put the disc in the player and watch the movie.

On that note, I hope something gets decided ASAP. Or someone releases a universal player that actually works and supports all the capabilities of both formats. The just shipping LG universal player is a start, but it doesn't support most of HD-DVDs menu and extra functions and they also crippled HD-DVD output to 1080i while it allows for 1080p output when playing BluRay. Which is complete BS, because all but 2 current HD-DVD titles are encoded at 1080p. Toshiba and most of the HD-DVD supporting studios are not pleased with LG's dual player that cripples HD-DVD in favor of BluRay.

"My guess is that the PS3 sales will soon level off and it will be up to the stand alone players. You cannot place your whole formats existence on a game concole."

Actually you can.. Sony did this with PS2 and DVD.. in fact the PS2 is what bought DVD into the mainstream market, along with piracy and porn..
believe it or not, but without these 3 elements, DVD would not be what it is today..

Sony are counting on their user base, in addition to the HD upgraders (home theatre buffs) to jump to PS3 as its an all in one box no brainer..

Do not doubt that sony are relying on PS3 sales to bring BD into the mainstream consumer market.. and it will definately NOT fall.. in fact sales will increase as games and movies are relased using that format.. Production houses will begin to learn and implement newer encoding technologies such as DDTrueHD... and soon to follow with BD authoring and burning tools making it the most viable option for those of us in the production field to deliver our work in HD to those cients who have no other means or are nto inclined to spend any more money on any other HD formats as they already have one (ps3... ) i doubt you will find a PS3 owner go out and fork another 500bux for a HD DVD player.. when the PS3 is a perfectly capable player

for the future, IMO the capacity of DL BD will cement it as being the optical format of choice simply becuase it allows the production house much more flexibility in choice, formats, encoded bitrates, content, and actual disc production costs...

The winner will be the format that is the cheapest to bring to market, period. You can talk about codecs and formats until your binary code drops a 2 but it doesn't matter. Beta was in the running back in the day but it lost because of licensing and cost, it was and is the superior format. $1.40 chump change? Per Unit? X10,000,000? The ONLY person this doesn't significantly affect is the small producer, to the studios it's what is called the bottom line. Sing fat lady sing.

well, with acceptance and market share, prices will change depending on demand..

At this time, BD offers more consideirng its already in use with XDCam, in addition to XDCam already being the successor for Digibeta...

Also in regard to actual capacity, those capacities will play a fundamental role in determining the usability of the format..

I'm thinking the format that'll win is the one with the most and best content.
And at the moment that looks to be Blu-ray (most studios behind it).

Prices will drop (and already have), so I'm not so convinced that's gonna be
the deciding factor. What good will a $250 player do if you can't get the movies
you want for it?

The PS3 has just started selling here in Holland (and other parts of Europe?),
so it will be interesting to see what that does to Blu-ray disc sales during 2007.

In the end I just want one format to 'win'. I don't need nor want two formats.
And until we get that (or we will see a good market shift to see where it's going),
I'm not gonna invest in either format.

The PS3 has just started selling here in Holland (and other parts of Europe?),
so it will be interesting to see what that does to Blu-ray disc sales during 2007.

The Netherlands shouldn’t be selling them yet. It should be all pre-order. The European release date is this Friday and their will be around 1 million units available on that date. What’s funny is that Great Britain alone will receive more units than the US did.

Semi-related story; Blu-Ray association hopes to take over SD DVDs in 3 years:

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2574

heath

Paulo: could be the case indeed. Saw a lot of advertising suddenly. Had already seen that in the US when I was last down there ;)

Anyway, it's here or nearly here. Will still be interesting to see what it does with Blu-ray sales over the next months

I've been seeing more PS3s in stores, and though my friend is unhappy he can't use HDMI successfully with his Westinghouse Digital 42" LCD (1080p), component isn't bad. I think most of the bugs in the PS3 are getting worked out nicely.

Note, HDMI seems to work best in Sony HDTVs (I have some friends with PS3s and Sony HDTVs). Go figure.

heath

Another story, incl. a "not-so-fast" from HD DVD:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31950

heath

I thought these things were 35mb/s and bad, now I understand. Looked at another BD demo the other day, and the grain is so pronounced. People might think their grain is authentic, but it obscures the authentic image and leads to poor compression (even making the grain more pronounce) I wish they would clean it up before compression.

I wish camera companies would stop playing with us, and introduce cameras that offer the highest BD recording formats.

I thought h264 on the BD toped out at 24mb/s, is 40mb/s for true? If so, it is good news.

I thought h264 on the BD toped out at 24mb/s, is 40mb/s for true? If so, it is good news.It's true. BD-ROM (movies) supports a maximum rate of 54 Mbps with 40 Mbps for video. The 24 Mbps number is the rate for Japanese digital HD broadcast, including audio & video, so that may be where that number came from.

According to Wikipedia, BD recordable discs support 36 Mbps total. 2x drives support 72 Mbps and 8x drives of 288 Mbps and beyond are expected in the future.

Another story, incl. a "not-so-fast" from HD DVD:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31950

heath
I could be wrong but I read that you get 5 free HD-DVDs per every HD-DVD player purchased and those vouchers that are included with the PS3 are discounts, not free movies that Toshiba is claiming.

When my family bought me a DVD player in late 1998 for Christmas, I received five free Warner Bros. DVDs (not good movies, incl. Lethal Weapon 4, Sphere and more) and one free Hollywood Video DVD rental a month for a year. Not too bad, plus the old www.reel.com allowed me to buy one DVD and get the second one for a buck.

Just a way to sell more of the product.

heath

This War is so freakin awesome! Toshiba is set to reduce MSRP of their HD DVD players on April 1st.

HD-A2 will drop to $399
HD-A20 will be $499 (despite being announced at CES at $599)
HD-XA2 will be $799

Street prices should be pretty damn nice. I'm ready to buy a player and take advantage of 7 free movies.

http://www.valueelectronics.com/Toshiba_HD-A20_HD_DVD.htm

Then I'll grab a Blu-ray or Universal player next year for full movie support. Sometimes the consumer can win in a War.

Interesting take on it, Harrison. That's why I asked for an SD DVD player in 1998--they wanted us, the consumers, to buy with great incentives.

heath

When my family bought me a DVD player in late 1998 for Christmas, I received five free Warner Bros. DVDs (not good movies, incl. Lethal Weapon 4, Sphere and more) and one free Hollywood Video DVD rental a month for a year. Not too bad, plus the old www.reel.com allowed me to buy one DVD and get the second one for a buck.

Just a way to sell more of the product.

heath

Heath,

Lethal Weapon 4 and Sphere is not "THAT" bad!

I just want this thing settled, but my fears are that it will not be for a long time, maybe years.

Mike

This War is so freakin awesome! Toshiba is set to reduce MSRP of their HD DVD players on April 1st.

HD-A2 will drop to $399
HD-A20 will be $499 (despite being announced at CES at $599)
HD-XA2 will be $799


The HD-A2 is already down to $356.99 at Amazon.com...
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A2-HD-DVD-Player/dp/B000IJV4BC/

But I would tend to agree that Blu-ray is starting to show signs of coming out on top. Check out http://www.thedvdwars.com This site scrapes info off of Amazon product pages, turning sales ranks into comparative charts.

There is also a good article in PC Magazine showing Blu-ray outselling HD DVD 2:1 this year (roughly). http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2104850,00.asp

There are still NO HD DVD burners available, while there are 5 or 6 models of Blu-ray burners (and they have been available for 9 months).

It isn't over until it's over... but so far it looks like Sony's sponsorship of Blu-ray, costly as it has been, is proving to be a deciding factor in the HD disc format war.

Tom

There are still NO HD DVD burners available, while there are 5 or 6 models of Blu-ray burners (and they have been available for 9 months).


Tom

Not true! A quick search found this:

http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=HD+DVD+burners&page=1&offset=3&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D7082a6718353df6%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3 DHD%2BDVD%2Bburners%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fgaming.engadget.com%252F2007%252F01%252F05 %252Ftoshiba-unveils-sd-h903a-hd-dvd-burner-for-pcs%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fgaming.engadget.com%2F2007%2F01%2F05%2Ftoshiba-unveils-sd-h903a-hd-dvd-burner-for-pcs%2F

The HD-A2 is already down to $356.99 at Amazon.com...
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A2-HD-DVD-Player/dp/B000IJV4BC/

The retail price of the XA2 is already 799 in a lot of authorized dealers and Amazon has it at 599. That player is barely a few months old and you can already get it at 400 dollars off.

The XA2 is the one to get. The A2 can’t even do 1080p.

Not true! A quick search found this:

http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=HD+DVD+burners&page=1&offset=3&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D7082a6718353df6%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3 DHD%2BDVD%2Bburners%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fgaming.engadget.com%252F2007%252F01%252F05 %252Ftoshiba-unveils-sd-h903a-hd-dvd-burner-for-pcs%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fgaming.engadget.com%2F2007%2F01%2F05%2Ftoshiba-unveils-sd-h903a-hd-dvd-burner-for-pcs%2F

This is a press release. Can you find this burner, or any HD DVD burners for sale?

Let me know.

Actually, Toshiba has shipped some high-end notebooks with HD DVD burners, but not in large quantities.

Tom

Actually, Toshiba has shipped some high-end notebooks with HD DVD burners, but not in large quantities.

Tom

Wouldn't that negate your question right there?

The retail price of the XA2 is already 799 in a lot of authorized dealers and Amazon has it at 599. That player is barely a few months old and you can already get it at 400 dollars off.

The XA2 is the one to get. The A2 can’t even do 1080p.

Toshiba ships the A20 on April 4th which can be had for $450. It supports 1080p output as well. However the XA2 uses the REON VX processor and looks stellar upconverting DVDs and it offers more tweaks. If the best quality is demanded then the XA2 is the player to get. If 1080p is demanded then the A20 and if price is the prime motivator get the A2

Wouldn't that negate your question right there?

Mike,
No... I was just mentioning that in the interest of full disclosure. The question is still valid - can you find any HD DVD burners for sale? Even if you have to buy a PC to get the burner? Can you find the aforementioned laptop?

There is a big difference between press releases and actual product on the store shelves. Blu-ray burners are shipping...
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=5&name=CD-DVD-Burners-RW-Drives

HD DVD burners are essentially unavailable. This despite the fact that HD DVD burners and blank media should be easier to manufacture, due to the lower storage density and the similarity to DVD.

Tom

Blu-ray was designed as a recording format first that later transmogrified into a playback medium.

HD DVD was just the opposite so it's understandable why the disparity exists. I'm thinking that we'll see more HD DVD recorders announced by Cedia 07.

I could be wrong but I read that you get 5 free HD-DVDs per every HD-DVD player purchased and those vouchers that are included with the PS3 are discounts, not free movies that Toshiba is claiming.
The Amazon link that Tom Vaughan provided actually proved that it’s still being offered. No wonder Toshiba is claiming that HD-DVD players have a high attach rate. Instead of Blu-Ray having a lead of 3 to 1, it would have probably been a lot higher than 4 to 1 if Sony gave the same promotion for the PS3.

Blu-ray was designed as a recording format first that later transmogrified into a playback medium.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5
I wanted this thing badly when I first heard about it back in 2003.

2003 review
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/blu-ray/