Recently I was hired to provide myself and my HDV camera to do an indy shoot for 5 days. That's what the phone message and e-mail said, 5 days @ X per day.

On the penultimate day, the director pays me for the 4th day as usual and says he doesn't need 2 shooters for the last day, so thanks. I ask if he had any problem with my work and he said no. I get a total extra $80 for letting them use my pickup 4 days to move the jib around and to shoot from the back and for the cancellation. I forgot to bring up the extra $32.00 for an xlr splitter he asked me to get which I can't take back since it is custom made.

What should I do for the next time? Does 5 days mean 5 days or does it mean maybe 5 days?

Should I charge more for extras?
Should I get it in writing?

If you know how to make a person in the shot look better like not shoot her in the direct sun while wearing a hat while slouching in a chair, should you bring it up considering the below behavior, or should you just do whatever the director asks for, and nothing else, after he exhibits less than classy behavior?

On this shoot the other shooter was going to quit after the first day because the director was verbally abusive. Stop the f...ing car now! yada, yada, yada. The director claims that his behavior was ok because most movie people from xx are worse. Before deciding what to say to the other shooter, he asked me if I could come up with another camera.

The director also later admitted in an indirect way, that other people including actors have had low opinions of him, as he told a story of how some actors were complaining while not knowing they were on mic and other people could hear their comments.

What's the normal way of dealing with the above topics? I just want to know how to act for the next time and what the industry standards are.

I don't know about a the indy industry standard, but in any human interaction there are basically two ways to deal with jerks: take their money or leave. A contract is important if the job is important, but dropping the 5th day doesn't seem like a big deal to me (YMMV).

Larry,

Just be thankful that you got paid the the shoot is over.

Joe

Agreed; chalk it up as a learning experience and something that you'll never go through again. Life is too short for these kinds of headaches.

Cancellations happen. As a producer I try to give more than 24 hours notice of a cancelled shoot day. But man there are some shoots and productions that I never got paid for by the client. And all of them were from out of town.

It can be a tough business.

You're venting a bit, and understandably so. From my relatively limited experience, I'd suggest you simply add it to your repertoire of experience and lessons learned. Now it s/b easier to decide if you want to work with this guy again. If you choose to, at least you know what to expect.

One indie producer I work for lives by this credo: "Things change." We have to adapt to those changes. Having worked with him for more than 2 yrs now, I agree. Often, the changes are out of his hands, e.g. people arrive late, bulbs burn out, power outages occur, etc. Also, I have yet to come upon an indie director/producer who's had training in "project planning" or as a "project manager" like you'd find in big business; definitive "project management" often involves a "plan" and restrictions/limitations (at least related to a budget, and maybe a calendar) and any "plan" seems at odds with creativity, (certainly once editing begins), and is likely to be found only in BIG BUDGET productions. ("Bean counters" develop plans and budgets and their related restrictions; directors shoot and edit but their biggest limitation is time...not necessarily their "creativity").

I think the fact that you got paid is good, even if it turned out to be less than you expected, and the dir was rude, crude, and insensitive. I suspect things could have been much worse.

As for the custom XLR connector, frankly, I'd expect if he fully reimbursed you for it, then he would be entitled to own it.

Maybe I have the wrong attitude, but if I'm hired to do a job, and I need some new piece of equipment to do that job, I fully expect to buy it and add it to my list of equipment. (The thought being that, I didn't have it up til now, and if I need it to do "this" job, I wasn't fully prepared to "do" this job, and may very well need it in the future. So I'll buy it and have it when I need it again. I would now be better prepared to take on a similar job in the future).

Lastly, does anyone here actually "get it in writing", (other than weddings/events)? I haven't come across that yet. Obviously I need even more experience in that aspect.

Is my naievete showing?

Actually the xlr splitter was for the other guy, I just volunteered to expedite the procurement.

Sure, I'm venting a bit, it's not the first time but really I want to know how others deal with this.

I just talked to the producer, who thanked me for continuing to follow up with some details I was working on even though I'm not involved at this point. So life goes on, not a big deal anyways, just picking everyones brain...

I did get some nice reel material.

The director claims that his behavior was ok because most movie people from LA are worse....

Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore.

About dealing with jerks, for this instance, I think you should be glad it's over. When you've had time to reflect on the situation, I would disect it, and find safeguards for handling it next time. I do very few jobs without a written agreement of some sort. Maybe next time get paid upfront. Who knows, there are many ways to address what should be contractual work.

And by the way, it would be a shame to have his verbal abuse on video, that would really suck for him.

Just points out why specific, written, contracts can save so many headaches.

I agree with Chris to take it as a learning experience. In contracts like this, mistakes about what terms mean are common.

The more detailed the contract is, the less either side will have to complain about afterwards. And, in my mind, negotiating these shows people you been there before and that you know what you want.

Good luck on you nect project -
john
evilgeniusentertainment.com

i'd get it in writing or let the producer know you are reserving the dates for him/her.
if you are told they want you for 5 days on X dates .. you then set those days aside ..if i call you and want to hire you for one of those days - you're going to tell me you're not available ... it's hard to find work (for friday) if they tell you on thursday they don't need you on friday ...
they wouldn't like it if you told them on wednesday eve that you won't be there on thursday ! ...
now sometimes producers will tell you they "may" need you for 5 days next week = that gives you BOTH a understandable out - if he doesn't need you for one of those days you don't work ... if you get offered a better paying day rate then they should understand you taking the day off for the other work ...

in general i don't see/hear much verbal abuse on sets .. i hear disagreements
and every now & then dept might talk down to one of their workers that really messed up .... perhaps it's "age" ... when i was starting off ( allot younger) i worked for some wack-o's ...but now sitting in 50's i just don't come across them anymore - so you see there is a PLUS to aging in the business ...

Steven, I haven't been in Kansas since my KZ900 took me past there in 1978. I do know a Dorothy, however. She doesn't own any ruby slippers.

My previous job offer was to drive around and film people and places. That was a Craig's list ad and also one from the FSU film school. The person offering the job seemed a bit flighty, so I did some research and found that he was on probation for being an unlicensed securities dealer. 10 more years to go on a 30 year sentence. After I asked him about this, he claimed he has never been arrested. I'm not sure how someone gets probation without being arrested first.

She doesn't own any ruby slippers.As I recall, she stole them. ;)

A few thoughts from working in the indie world:

5 days never means 5 days. It means either 3 or 4 days because our uncle says we can't use the cabin anymore, or 5 days + 2 days of reshoots because we added two more pages of script after we realized a scene was missing, but we are out of budget, so can you work for free because we gave you five paid days?

Any indie shoot you walk away from with cash in hand (or a check that doesn't bounce) IS A GOOD ONE!!!

Get cash for what you bought for the set at the same time you brought it, otherwise it's instantly forgotten for good, and you own it.

If the director is an a-hole, it is perfectly acceptible to let him sink himself and not provide any insight beyond that which you are paid for.

If the director is an a-hole, it is perfectly acceptible to let him sink himself and not provide any insight beyond that which you are paid for.And though a contract might tightly specify the money, it will never protect you from directors that you don't like. Only experience and word of mouth can help there.

And the contract doesn't guarantee that you'll get paid. It's just a tool during negotiation - and in court.

And the contract doesn't guarantee that you'll get paid. It's just a tool during negotiation - and in court.


Ain't that the truth!!!

What should I do for the next time?

Contract, contract, contract
Make sure you and the other party have a clear understanding what the job entails, in writing.
Then both of you sign off on it.
Allen W

One thing you can do in future after striking a bargain is to write a letter summarizing your understanding of the offer and terms and send it to the employer before starting work, e.g. "This letter summarizes our conversation of . . ." Provide a copy for the employer to keep and another for him to sign and return. The letter can include a summary your standard practices.

Getting the letter will force a potential employer inclined to be a jerk to think twice before committing to you and gives you a paper trail in case something goes wrong.

Recently I was hired to provide myself and my HDV camera to do an indy shoot for 5 days. That's what the phone message and e-mail said, 5 days @ X per day.

On the penultimate day, the director pays me for the 4th day as usual and says he doesn't need 2 shooters for the last day, so thanks. I ask if he had any problem with my work and he said no. I get a total extra $80 for letting them use my pickup 4 days to move the jib around and to shoot from the back and for the cancellation. I forgot to bring up the extra $32.00 for an xlr splitter he asked me to get which I can't take back since it is custom made.

What should I do for the next time? Does 5 days mean 5 days or does it mean maybe 5 days?

Should I charge more for extras?
Should I get it in writing?

If you know how to make a person in the shot look better like not shoot her in the direct sun while wearing a hat while slouching in a chair, should you bring it up considering the below behavior, or should you just do whatever the director asks for, and nothing else, after he exhibits less than classy behavior?

On this shoot the other shooter was going to quit after the first day because the director was verbally abusive. Stop the f...ing car now! yada, yada, yada. The director claims that his behavior was ok because most movie people from xx are worse. Before deciding what to say to the other shooter, he asked me if I could come up with another camera.

The director also later admitted in an indirect way, that other people including actors have had low opinions of him, as he told a story of how some actors were complaining while not knowing they were on mic and other people could hear their comments.

What's the normal way of dealing with the above topics? I just want to know how to act for the next time and what the industry standards are.

The REALITY is the asshole quotient in this industry is no more higher or lower than any other industry, but those who are assholes think it's okay, simply because of the made for TV portrayals of this industry in general. I would venture to say that within the higher ends of industry MOST people treat each other with civility and respect, simply because it fosters better work, it's only on the lower end of the business where people aren't as aware that they're hurting their own production by being an asshole. Not to say that there isn't tension on sets, but usually that tension comes from within as opposed to from without, because at this level, no one needs, let alone will stand for, such abuse. As for the fifth day or not, that usually falls into one week rate category for me anyway, as I usually only charge four days for working five, although I do have a higher day rate than most, same with my rental charges, although those are usually three days equals a week rate. As for working with assholes in the future, you really have three choices....

a) shut your mouth and count the days till it's done
b) if you actually develop a rapor, but notice others aren't due to assholeness, try to, in the most respectful way possible, broach the subject, using something like "I don't think you're getting the results you want because you aren't letting people take ownership of their contributions. People are selfish that way. The trick is as a director MAKING them think it's THEIR idea."
c) packing up and getting the frak out of there

On this shoot the other shooter was going to quit after the first day because the director was verbally abusive. Stop the f...ing car now! yada, yada, yada. The director claims that his behavior was ok because most movie people from xx are worse. Before deciding what to say to the other shooter, he asked me if I could come up with another camera.

The director also later admitted in an indirect way, that other people including actors have had low opinions of him, as he told a story of how some actors were complaining while not knowing they were on mic and other people could hear their comments.

What's the normal way of dealing with the above topics?

OK, you got into my head on a sensitive subject and now you're going to get a taste of how I think.

People can only verbally abuse you if you let them. (and if you do, shame on you.)
If he verbally abuses another person and that person rightfully gets upset and walks off the set and he calls you to replace that person, you have to take a stand. I believe that you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. If you replace that person, you're part of the problem. You have given license to this person to continue his abusiveness. If you refuse to replace that person under those circumstances then you are part of the solution. When the director finds he's short of camera people and can't meet his objectives, he'll take note. If he fires you also and has to start from scratch to get another lacky, you can go home with a clear conscience.

The bottom line is not what the person says but how the person on the receiving end perceives it. If you feel insulted stand up and don't take it.
I would go head to head, man to man, nothing less and get this matter straightened out immediately before it becomes a festering sore that will make you hate yourself for not standing up. His behavior is only ok if you let be ok.
Allen W

If the director is an a-hole, it is perfectly acceptible to let him sink himself and not provide any insight beyond that which you are paid for.


I'm changing my mind on this one. While it's still acceptible to do it, consider that you don't work for the director, you work for the production. Even though you may never work for the a-hole director again, if you put your best work forward, the producer will hopefully take note of what a good job you did and remember you in the future... with a different director.

Even though I don't think it's acceptable what that guy did and said, it really doesn't surprise me since it's an indie production. Unfortunately it happens on pro sets too. Alot of these guys want to be a big shot so bad and like someone else stated they act out that hollywood image. The industry standard while working for established and reputable production companies is if you are booked for x amount of days, you get paid either a full day rate or sometimes a half day rate in addition to your gear rentals and travel for any days that you are cancelled. This is because you could have turned down other work that can't be recovered and it's not your fault that they didn't need you for that last day or whenever. The bottom line is to only work for a person or company that is decent and honors pay for what you were booked for or get it in writing so you can have proof when they try to get out of it. On a professional project, if you show up, you get paid!

A couple of years ago, I was sub-contracted for a $22K week long 4 camera shoot with a jib. I was supposed to receive a $10K check as a deposit before anything moved. Well, I knew the person that I sub-contracted under and felt safe so I went ahead and arrived, prepped the truck, built the cameras, built the jib, pulled the cables, etc. before receiving the deposit. Then the producer/talent of the show arrives and is asked about the deposit check. This is where it gets real interesting. This guy claims there's been a big mistake. He said he must have misunderstood the amount on the phone thinking it was only $2K for the week. Now, what company provides a 4 camera truck and jib for only $2K for an entire week? It's important to know that this guy has a traveling show and has had video production done before and knows better than that. Anyway, there was tension in the air. His manager took me to the side and said there's no way they could pay that amount. I told him that once I have arrived and especially built everything, he is obligated for the amount. He then stated that there was nothing in writing but he nor the producer/talent wanted to make an issue out of it. He then proceeded to ask me what it would take for me to just walk away. Well, I assessed the situation and realized that I had nothing in writing and could possibly walk away with nothing so I decided to cut my labor and just charge that one day for the truck package. So, I ended up walking away with a $3K check in my hand to break down and leave. Now, if I had hired the crew, they would have had to have been paid too which would have been an additional $1500 or taken out of my $3k. Either way, they would have been paid because I take care of my crews! Luckily, I didn't have to take that hit because they were hired seperately. That's got to be the easiest payday I have ever had though. If it had been a larger company with a contract, those guys would have been $22K in the hole and/or in a courtroom. I definitely learned a lesson that day. Friend or not, NO gear moves without a signed contract and a certified check in my hand!

Larry,

I swear I think I DP'd for that same guy. Is he in Florida now?
My shoot was a deferred indie, so no pay was expected but the guy was a major a-hole.
Many times I wanted to leave, and people were certain I would, but I realized I was there for me and the other crew and actors. Since that shoot everyone has either worked with me again or has asked to, and no one has since worked with the big shot director.
The lesson I learned was to do a little more research about with whom I'd be working. The guy was so slick though, it wasn't until later that I realized he was a pathological liar.

And if you are just venting, I say vent away. I was pissed for weeks after the shoot I did.

Larry,

Consider this great learning experience on how not to treat your crew. Years ago I was working on a major computer company event where the Producer/Director was drinking scotch on the rocks starting at 10:30 AM. By 4 PM, he was THE nastiest SOB I've ever worked for which taught me a lesson early on how not to treat crews and people in general. Learn from it and move on. If you work for this guy again, you know what you are getting into. Also jerk Directors in smaller markets will find it harder to book crews as time goes on. The word will get around. Next time use a contract.

As for the dropped 5th day, this sort of stuff happens a lot. I have had to drop the last day on crews and talent as a Producer/Director with less than 24 hours notice due to one reason or another. I've paid penalties on some occasions and on others the freelancer lets it side. I have also finished up early with crews on shoots and still paid them the full rate. Next time use a contract.