I've pretty much decided on the XH-A1 for a documentary I will be working on. It will involve both US based interviews and run-and-gun filming abroad.

So now the question is which NLE to use with this fine camera? I would like to use Avid but there is no native 24F support. So my next best choice seems to be Sony Vegas. Do you agree?

What are you guys using and what do you recommend? I've searched and posted on the editing forums. But since this question is very camera specific (due to lack of 24F support by some NLE's) I decided to post this question in the Canon XH G1 / A1 camera forum.

THANKS much for your insights!

-Peter

Peter, I absolutely agree. I use Vegas myself. Can't think of a more capable and intuitive NLE. And works 100% reliable in 24/25F mode.

I use Vegas as well... Really handles mixed multi-media types (SD / HD) very well...

Me too, handles almost everything I can think of.

Do any of you have both Vegas and some version of Avid installed on the same computer? Vegas 7 is a must have it seems for my needs, but I'd also like to have Avid Express Pro as well. This way I can see how exported footage will look in Avid. And also get use to the Avid user interface.

I'm just concerned about any conflicts that might arise from having both programs installed on the same machine.

THANKS!

I also am a Vegas user. Started with version 4 after frustrations with other (major) NLEs and I'm now up to Ver.7 and loving it! It works perfectly with my A1 (more than can be said for most of the others) and IMHO is the most stable, intuitive, versatile and flexible NLE on the market.

Peter, as much as I can remember, years ago having Avid & another NLE may have caused problems on Win200 Pro, only because of differences in the way firewire was implemented, but ever since later versions progressed toward being supported on WinXP Pro, those problems don't seem to exist anymore.

This isn't verbatim, like I said regarding my memory, but I AM aware of quite a few people who do have both installed & report no problems. But those people DID have Avid supported systems. It's really the only way to assure yourself of no problems with Avid's nitpicky requirements.

Bill

Yes, Bill I just purchased a new video card (Avid certified) b/c my existing one is probably the reason why Avid's free software won't launch on my machine.

Yout got a Nvidia Quadro, eh? Actually there's quite a few of the lower end Nvidia based cards that usually work that aren't listed as qualified.

Regarding supported systems though, I was really referring to the workstations on Avid's qualified list... the HP's & Dell's.

Good luck,
Bill

Another vote for Vegas here. I've been using it since before you could even edit video with it! Best video editing app by far.. I've tried others (Premiere, FCP etc), but they're not even in the ballpark.

I saw Avid DV express demonstrated a few years back. I was surprised that all it's flashy new features were things that Vegas had been capable of since v1.0

Yout got a Nvidia Quadro, eh? Actually there's quite a few of the lower end Nvidia based cards that usually work that aren't listed as qualified.

...I've heard that, but I SEEM to have gotten a good deal on a Quadro ($300 less than what it should be selling for)... so I'll see.

I tried installing Avid's Free DV on my computer, but launching it causes a runtime error. Everything else is up to spec, AFAICT, so I'm assuming it my cheapo multi-monitor video card.

Peter, I wouldn't even bother with Avid FreeDV. It's a severely dumbed down version for very limited learning & think at the very least you might want to try & get either version 3.1 or current XpressDV 4.x+ version. You can always upgrade to a Xpress Pro with an upgrade price.

Also, regarding Nvidia cards, install the approved driver Avid includes on the disc instead of the one that came with your card. There's also various tweaks & such to help a system run at peak performance. If & when you get to that point, I can come up with some links to throw your way.

Bill

Peter, I wouldn't even bother with Avid FreeDV. It's a severely dumbed down version for very limited learning & think at the very least you might want to try & get either version 3.1 or current XpressDV 4.x+ version. You can always upgrade to a Xpress Pro with an upgrade price.

Evnen my new XW8400 had som trouble with the FreeDv...!!

But ofcourse it runs the Xpress Pro HD stable, no crash so far, except the bug i found in the Digital Film Tools plugin when nested a few filteres in the right, read wrong..., order. That said, Xpress with for example the DFI plugins is one powerfull combination.

I'm in the land of getting a A1 to, and will stick to Avid, used to Avid stick with it...
Avid HAVE to do something with the HD and framerate support in EU or they will loose MANY BIG customers as the broadcasting standard many EU countries will use is 720p50.

HP XW8400 is a nice box!

A while back I installed Avid FreeDV on my daughter's low end Dell laptop. It ran fine. Not long after that I installed XpressDV 3.5 & no problems there either.

Go figure.

Bill

Another vote for Vegas here. I've been using it since before you could even edit video with it! Best video editing app by far.. I've tried others (Premiere, FCP etc), but they're not even in the ballpark.

I saw Avid DV express demonstrated a few years back. I was surprised that all it's flashy new features were things that Vegas had been capable of since v1.0

Thanks for the tip - have used Premiere Pro for a while (for SD) but have now got Vegas. It is in a different league!! A good test is if it's worth my learning a new piece of software after having used Premiere Pro for so long - and even from my first day's exploration of Vegas, definitely it is worth changing over. The software itself seems very stable and the plugins seem to produce really good quality results (even if the controls are unfamiliar as yet).

I'm a longtime Premiere user (now using PP 2.0). Given what I'm reading here, I would love to see a comparison of PP 2.0 to Vegas from someone who has used both apps.

-- Larry Chapman

I have used PP 1, 1.5, and limited experience with 2. I have just been putting Vegas through its paces using the trial version. Although I dont have real production expereince with PP2 or Vegas, at this point I would say that Vegas is hands down superior. It has been far more reliable and quicker to accomplish tasks. I have learned how do things quickly and well in Vegas that were a real struggle in PP (secondary color correction for example). Even the help system is way better.

I am currently ordering a new editing system for HDV work and it will have Vegas not Premiere as the NLE.

Check out this discussion about support for the Canon frame mode in various NLEs...

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=77085

Just wondering if any of the Premiere users here would miss the Premiere/Photoshop updates. Sure is nice editing an image in PS and seeing the PP timeline updated.

Also, are any Premiere users also using Matrox? I use to edit with Premiere standalone and renders to DVD were horrible taking 5 or 6 hours. With Matrox, it's real-time. For example, how long would an 80 minute SD project on Vegas take to render to DVD?

Matrox/Premiere is not a stable mix even on recommended systems. But the real-time benefits would be impossible to give up.
Bob

...
Also, regarding Nvidia cards, install the approved driver Avid includes on the disc instead of the one that came with your card. There's also various tweaks & such to help a system run at peak performance. If & when you get to that point, I can come up with some links to throw your way.

BillBill, I'd love to see those links if you have a chance.

BTW, do you know how the Quadro FX 1100 (AGP 8X dual digital output) and the Quadro4 NVS 400 (PCI dual digital output) would work together under Avid?

The Quadro FX is the higher-end card, but the Quadro4 NVS is no slouch. Could I even do something as simple as not extending Avid to the monitors running off the Quadro4 NVS?

I also use my computer for rather inept C++ programming, creating bloated Visual Basic add-in's and designing Excel 2000 spreadsheets with far too many colors and dubious value. Since switching to the Quadro, I'm down two monitors and would like get the other two back up and running.

I'm thinking maybe the Quadro4 NVS 400 will allow me to do that, but I'm not sure if Avid will be too picky. Nvidia's multi-monitor app, nView, is supported by both cards. But they do use different drivers, AFAICT.

THANKS MUCH for all your help.


-Peter

P.S. Searched the Avid forums, but couldn't find anything. Thanks again.

Peter, I have stored... somewhere on this pc, a directory that had a lot of Avid tips, tweaks & info links that I'd come across years ago. When I find it (so far no luck), I'll get the ones relevant to you. Regarding the Avid forums, quite a few of these came from there. Also, FWIW, I've found that searches there get better results if for a specific forum.

Bill

Just wondering if any of the Premiere users here would miss the Premiere/Photoshop updates. Sure is nice editing an image in PS and seeing the PP timeline updated.

Bob



I do this all the time in Vegas. I'll have a PSD file on the timeline, open that up in Photoshop, make my adjustments, press Ctrl+S click back in the vegas timeline and it's allready updated. I made the switche from Premiere to Vegas about 2 years ago, and honestly I have not looked back since. Adobe has done nothing to convince me to ever go back to Premiere.

What settings should i use for the Canon A1 for preferences and capture.

Jay
Just pick the import template for whatever you shot in (1080/60i, 1080/24f, etc). Couldnt be easier.

I'm a longtime Premiere user (now using PP 2.0). Given what I'm reading here, I would love to see a comparison of PP 2.0 to Vegas from someone who has used both apps.

-- Larry Chapman

what do u wanna know?

and the person asking abotu Matrox with premPro.. check out teh Premiere/PC editing forums..

there are quite afew limitations of the RT2.. especially with 1080@24/25p

The RT2 is STRICTLY locked into HW resolution..

There are dozens of previous similar threads on DVi and I've never seen better advice in any of them than to try before you buy. As far as I'm concerned, there's no need spend time sorting through other people's personal preferences. I don't put much stock in the "I use X app so you should too" concept. The big NLEs have free downloadable trial versions. Give 'em a try and decide which one suits you best.

So most people here strongly recommend Vegas over Premiere. And no one's voting for Final Cut?

I'm just a Premiere dabbler myself, with 1.5. After buying the XHA1, I was either going to upgrade my PC and move to PP2.0 or buy a new MacPro and Final Cut. I've never used Vegas before, yet that's the favorite here?

So most people here strongly recommend Vegas over Premiere. And no one's voting for Final Cut?

I'm just a Premiere dabbler myself, with 1.5. After buying the XHA1, I was either going to upgrade my PC and move to PP2.0 or buy a new MacPro and Final Cut. I've never used Vegas before, yet that's the favorite here?

Well it is a question I am asking myself. I am new to video so I bought PP2 because I use photoshop a lot and thought it may help. After purchasing and reading these forums I found that I also had to purchase Cineform Aspect HD in order to make scene select work, this adds $400 to the price. There also seemd to be issues with the down converting capabliities of the Adobe Media Encoder in PP2, which meant purchasing other software, creating further steps in the process.

As such I have downloaded the 30 trial of Vegas Production Studio + DVDA and have found that is fairly easy to work with. I am hoping that I can get a simple, high quality work flow, without having to many software add ons.

By the time the Vegas 30 days trial is over, I hope to have myself an answer!!!

Good luck.

Vegas user since version 2.0. I have never used others such as Avid or Pinnicle etc. All of them have their issues, all of them have their benifits...vegas fits me because it does a lot for a little $$! The current version 7.0d seems to work well with all the video formats from the A1. It's improved m2t handling lets me work on the raw mpeg video on my AMD Athlon 4000+ processor quite well. I have been a little dissapointed with the lack of video preview using Boris FX/Graffitti with the Vegas environment but it is still workable. It supports HDV well and all of Canon's formats.

Try before you buy with Vegas to see if it is a suitable option. For the money I have nothing but good things to say!