I think a scene file editor for the JVC HD100/200 series cameras would be a good idea, both mac and pc versions, that lets you create different scene files and save them to SD cards, ready for shooting. It would certainly beat using the menu system to create scene files.

There are people working on this for the HVX200, and I think its a great idea.

Anybody have the know-how to write such an app?

While I'm asking, has anybody created the Barry Green book/DVD for the HD100? Tim, what about you?


Andrew

We've mentioned and requested a scene file editor before. I doubt JVC will develop it on their own. It will take a third party (like Blue Barn (http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/articles/article15.php)'s work on the XL2) to program one for Mac or PC.
I have some great ideas for the design, but I don't have the programming skills (or time) to create it.

While I'm asking, has anybody created the Barry Green book/DVD for the HD100? Tim, what about you?

I'm working on a DVD now that will cover the whole ProHD line, including the DR-HD100 & the HZ-CA13U. I was working on an in-depth tutorial style book, but I've realized through my participation on the forums that many people simply can't learn quickly or effectively from the written word. The DVD format allows you watch the whole program in a couple of hours, or jump straight to an area of interest for your specific model. I will also likely add either subtitles or overdubbing for French & Spanish and possibly Portuguese, Cantonese, Japanese & German. It all depends on how much time & money I can afford to invest in translations.

This DVD will be a supplemental 'module' to to a larger educational DVD of Digital Cinematography techniques, tips & tricks. I plan to produce more modules in the future, covering other cameras, NLEs, and possibly even 3D Stereoscopy (a hobby of mine.)

Look for the official announcement at NAB.

Steve Mullen has a rather nice intro booklet to the original HD100
http://www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/

I should also mention:

Elite video also has a DVD that covers the HD100.
http://www.elitevideo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=604

And a HD100 podcast.
feed://rss.mac.com/schwetjelars/iWeb/JVC%20HD%20Workshopp/Podcast/rss.xml

I'm working on a DVD now that will cover the whole ProHD line, including the DR-HD100 & the HZ-CA13U.
Look for the official announcement at NAB.

Tim

thanks for this info on the DVD. I'll look forward to it. Theres only so much can be learned from the manual supplied with the camera. So much more can be learned from an expert like yourself who has obviously worked with the camera in depth.

I'll have a look at the other suggestions as well.

thanks

Andrew

I should also mention:

Elite video also has a DVD that covers the HD100.
http://www.elitevideo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=604

And a HD100 podcast.
feed://rss.mac.com/schwetjelars/iWeb/JVC%20HD%20Workshopp/Podcast/rss.xml

I just watched these. Mmm...

I can see a gap in the market. Looking forward to your DVD Tim.

Good luck,

Liam.

Does the cam have the capability to load from SD already? Is all that's needed some software on the computer to manage the scene files (i.e. a nice user interface for editing them) and handle a write to SD?

Does the cam have the capability to load from SD already? Is all that's needed some software on the computer to manage the scene files (i.e. a nice user interface for editing them) and handle a write to SD?
Hi Jad,
Yes, the HD100 can load from SD files and that is pretty much all the app would have to do. It would be really cool if there was GUI with which you could previsualize, or at least see the effect of changing settings. Can you an write software?

Liam.

Yes, I am a software engineer and web programmer during my 9-5, with a good amount of experience in gui and applications design. If you or anyone would like to post requested features, I could get a spec together and hammer it out sooner than later.

I'm not so sure about previsualization as that would require some sort of communication with the camera or emulation of its compression methods, but there could at least be some healthy descriptions for each adjustment parameter and some sort of website integration/sharing feature.

FYI, I only program for Windows and Linux.

Yes, I am a software engineer and web programmer during my 9-5, with a good amount of experience in gui and applications design. If you or anyone would like to post requested features, I could get a spec together and hammer it out sooner than later.

I'm not so sure about previsualization as that would require some sort of communication with the camera or emulation of its compression methods, but there could at least be some healthy descriptions for each adjustment parameter and some sort of website integration/sharing feature.

FYI, I only program for Windows and Linux.
Jad,
Fab. Looks like you've got the job then.
In terms of previsualization, anything that helps people understand what the major controls actually do would be a help. I think a lot of people have a problem understanding gamma, knee, black level etc. I'm not talking Kodak Look Manager here, just something akin to the way Magic Bullit presents its different looks in After Effects.

How do you see the web integration working?

Liam.

Yes, I am a software engineer and web programmer during my 9-5, with a good amount of experience in gui and applications design. If you or anyone would like to post requested features, I could get a spec together and hammer it out sooner than later.

I'm not so sure about previsualization as that would require some sort of communication with the camera or emulation of its compression methods, but there could at least be some healthy descriptions for each adjustment parameter and some sort of website integration/sharing feature.

FYI, I only program for Windows and Linux.
I have often thought of creating an interactive flash application from the waveform data I've collected. It would be easy to set the parameters of each control based on the collected data. However, it wouldn't be much use as anything other than a teaching tool.

Previsualization based on a sample frame is my ideal concept of a scene file app, but there is no SDK available for the JVC cameras, so I'm not sure how you would go about writing out a SCN format file. Reverse engineer a SCN file?

You should check out how Nikon lets you create custom curves in their Nikon Capture app.
Previsualization is the key to a usable app, since I doubt it is possible to live control the parameters of any menu items via firewire. I could be wrong, but I'm sure they would have added the abilities if it existed (like with Canon.)

I could probably get a visualization of a gamma/color curve, but actually applying that curve to a sample frame may be a bit involved. I'm not sure I could accurately reproduce what the camera does without having intimate knowledge of the equations used by their ICs. Assuming that hard part was done, it would be fairly simple to apply the frame to a live firewire feed rather than just a simple frame.

Yes, I would reverse engineer the SCN file, or maybe see if someone at JVC is willing to open it up. I'd believe there is no SDK because of low demand, not because of secrecy.

Web integration would be in the form of an online repository that the application could pull from and submit to, with ratings and author-provided discussions available inside the app, or from a web page. Nothing fancy, but enough to be useful. I hope to alleviate the difficulty of sharing and reviewing files through a forum by making the community content available in the application. I have experience with web services, so this file sharing model is familiar.

I'll check out Magic Bullet, Kodak Look Manager, and that Nikon app to get some ideas.

Thanks

I offer the data collected in this quicktime file (http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Public/HD100-DVX_GAMMA-MATRIX/HD100_GAMMA-MATRIX-Sorenson.mov). Be patient, it takes a few minutes to buffer before playing.

Even if you could create an interactive app that simply displayed the effects of the controls on the gamma curve as you moved the sliders, it would be a helpful educational tool.

Very cool! (although as a mac user, I guess I'll be looking at emulation mode unless java, x-windows or something else more universal can be used)
This is probably elementary, but I was think that frame grabs of a scene could be used to illustrate changes. Of course showing every combination would be way too much - but you could show every OTHER parameter at default, and just show the effects on the scene of the edited paramter at each of it's settings... The charts that Tim produced could also be used the same way.

Excellent data! I don't want to rule out the possiblity of frame previewing, but that is pretty tricky and I don't want to promise it unless I can deliver it. I'll see if I can find some math equations to apply such a curve to a given image and see if it's feasible.

At the very least, I could have examples in a small window to the side comparing the pre-rendered sample base image to the pre-rendered sample adjusted image, where that image is loaded based on user-entered values. It would not be ideal, but still useful.

How easy is it for Mac users to run Windows applications? If it's easy enough, I will not look into cross-platform possibilities and instead redirect that effort to the mathematics.

Thanks for all the feedback; I think I am getting close to the info I need for a preliminary spec.

Jad

Mac users have several options to run Windows Apps:
(1) Those of us with Intel-based Macs, by installing BootCamp with Windows XP SP2, we can run demanding Windows-based programs such as DV Rack HD 2.0 as if it were running on a high-end PC. Boot camp virtually turns any partioned Mac into a PC, so there would be no problem for those of us with PowerMacs.
(2) By utilizing emulation software such as Parallels on any modestly powered Mac, many windows programs will work just fine. I know there are exceptions, but it sounds like you could focus your skills and experience on a Windows-based scene file editor. That would be a huge benefit to so many of us.

Thanks for your efforts, Jad!!

Yes, Intel Macs can run Windows apps under virtualization or a separate boot.
However, it would be much simpler if someone could program it in Javascript or ActionScript (Flash) and let it live on a server. This way your platform (linux, mac, xp, vista, etc.) wouldn't matter.

Start with a simple curve modifier using the data I provided, and then it can be improved later with colour/vectorscope information, with the eventual goal being sample image manipulation.

Take the approach of the app being used as a teaching tool, and not as a .SCN file creator. That would be overly ambitious right now, especially without a proper SDK.

Intel Mac users don't have to install Windows. I'm using Crossover Mac (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/). Works great for all kinds off applications. It also works with software that isn't on their compatibility list.

Marc

Crossover looks/sounds great and I’m sure it will run many Windows apps just fine. I was referencing programs such as DV Rack HD 2.0 which require actual Windows XP with SP2 environment to operate properly (see forum threads and links). Some Mac users have tried, unsuccessfully, to simply load that program inside virtualization programs and wonder why they don’t work. As Tim says, a separate, stand-alone Windows boot is required.
Thanks anyway for the link to Crossover .

...and there are still a few geezers like me with G5's. I'm hoping they will last until the octomac is out - and affordable! I do have virtual PC, but that's like pulling teeth - underwater.

Crossover looks/sounds great and I’m sure it will run many Windows apps just fine. I was referencing programs such as DV Rack HD 2.0 which require actual Windows XP with SP2 environment to operate properly (see forum threads and links).

Well it's funny that you mention that specific app because I may use similar system calls for pulling frames off firewire. In any case, I'm sure there will be plenty of community testing before I consider it 'released'.


I think the gamma/color curve image processing will work out. The math equations and programming routines are not nearly as complicated as I expected. I believe the processing can be done in real-time.

What I'm worried about is grabbing an HDV frame. Standard DV is easy, but HDV seems to be much more complicated and not as open. Anyone know any freeware programs that can capture HDV?

Yes, I am a software engineer and web programmer during my 9-5, with a good amount of experience in gui and applications design. If you or anyone would like to post requested features, I could get a spec together and hammer it out sooner than later.

I'm not so sure about previsualization as that would require some sort of communication with the camera or emulation of its compression methods, but there could at least be some healthy descriptions for each adjustment parameter and some sort of website integration/sharing feature.

FYI, I only program for Windows and Linux.


What about adding the possibily of besides of setting all the preferences yourself (manually), also include the possibilty to set some of sthe scene files published here? (If there creators agree?) - just to give the users templates to work from (e.g. True Color 3, Panamatch, ...)?

What about adding the possibily of besides of setting all the preferences yourself (manually), also include the possibilty to set some of sthe scene files published here? (If there creators agree?) - just to give the users templates to work from (e.g. True Color 3, Panamatch, ...)?

I would need permission for those specific files, but I did have that sort of sharing mentality in mind. One component of the program would be a little window on the side where you could try some presets other people have made.

Couldn't the preview simply be a tga file from the timeline of a NLE, or any other formatted image file,(png, jpg, tga, tiff, etc)? I think it would get you pretty close to what you want on the camera.

You could start with a TC3 frame, then tweek it with the sliders, write it into a scene file?

Just some thoughts,
Jon

I've made some progress with the app design and am going to organize part of the UI for importing of specific groups of a SCN file, so you can avoid overwriting certain menus. You will be able to drag/drop SCN files from a list into four slots and pick an SD card or directory to write them to. Alternatively, you can edit the values directly. The preview window is a planned feature for phase 2.

Questions/comments/concerns?

Also, it will be modular so it could be easily adapted to other cameras like the XL2.

Jad

I'm glad to see you've continued with this. Are you going to post screen shots and eventually beta downloads? I'm also assuming this is for Windows only?

Drew

I'm glad to see you've continued with this. Are you going to post screen shots and eventually beta downloads?


Yes, I will whip up a small webpage and put something on it for giving feedback, so the users can direct all complaints to that instead of my inbox :)


I'm also assuming this is for Windows only?


Yes, but if someone else is a capable Mac developer, I will share the code and help with synchronizing updates.

Sorry for the delay; life is busy yadda yadda you've all heard it before. I'll have a preliminary version available for testing at the end of next weekend. It lets you edit and group most of the parameters. The immediate goal is to allow a baseline settings file and then apply certain groups of parameters to it from another setting file. The program structure is in place, I just need to finish learning the scene file format so I can support all the important parameters.

Steve Mullen has a rather nice intro booklet to the HD100
http://www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/

I'd be cautious about buying this. I bought it when I first got my HD-100.

It spends *113* pages on HDV theory before it even mentions the HD-100.

It's a waste.

Sorry for the delay; life is busy yadda yadda you've all heard it before. I'll have a preliminary version available for testing at the end of next weekend. It lets you edit and group most of the parameters. The immediate goal is to allow a baseline settings file and then apply certain groups of parameters to it from another setting file. The program structure is in place, I just need to finish learning the scene file format so I can support all the important parameters.

I look forward to testing it.

Thanks

Drew

Stephen...

Well, I for one think the info on Steve Mullen's HDV Book invaluable. It's kinda learning to drive a car without knowing what's under the hood. Sure, you can do it, but, not nearly as well without understanding how HDV works.

Sorry for the delay; life is busy yadda yadda you've all heard it before. I'll have a preliminary version available for testing at the end of next weekend. It lets you edit and group most of the parameters. The immediate goal is to allow a baseline settings file and then apply certain groups of parameters to it from another setting file. The program structure is in place, I just need to finish learning the scene file format so I can support all the important parameters.

I look forward to testing it as well. Will it be HD100/HD101/HD110/HD111 only?

Stephen...

Well, I for one think the info on Steve Mullen's HDV Book invaluable. It's kinda learning to drive a car without knowing what's under the hood. Sure, you can do it, but, not nearly as well without understanding how HDV works.

I can't comment on the quality of Steve Mullen's book (as I haven't read it), but I agree with Bill. Technical background is usually invaluable. You can't imagine how many questions I get that wouldn't be asked if people had more background...

I look forward to testing it as well. Will it be HD100/HD101/HD110/HD111 only?

Initially, yes, until I can find someone local with an HD200/250.

The interface is built (and generic/modular enough to support other cameras), but I am still figuring out the .scn file. It's a slow process as I change one setting, compare files, change another setting, compare files, etc...