Hi
First sorry for my bad english.
I am thinking to bought the M2 and wait money to buy it. I have a JVC GY-HD101E. On the photos of this camera and the M2, it seems to be a monster, the JVC lense is too big !
I see on internet the Zörk nikon adapter for JVC camera.

http://www.zoerk.com/_deutsch/adapt2jvc-E.html

So is it possible to put off the JVC lense and replace it by a little nikon lense to reduce the size of the system ?

HD 100-->Zörk adapter-->nikon lense-->M2-->nikon lense

If it's not a dream, what lense is adviced ?

if you buy the Zörk adapter, you don't need the M2. it gives you the same D.O.F as a M2 gives.* Better still, no light loss and the image stays upright.

*Note from Admin: As pointed out below, this statement is absolutely false. Normally we would simply withdraw this post from public view, but that would have confused the thread since so many other posts reference this one. So, we decided to leave it in place along with this disclaimer.

Isn't the Zörk going to give you a very large magnification though if you use it alone? The Canon EOS adapter for Canon XL1/XL2 for example gives you a magnification of about 7.2x since the 1/3" image sensor is so much smaller than the 35mm film plane.

In order for a lens system to have the same DOF as a 35mm-adapter or film a ground glass is necessary. Otherwise you would just have a really long lens, like Ron says...

if you buy the Zörk adapter, you don't need the M2. it gives you the same D.O.F as a M2 gives. Better still, no light loss and the image stays upright.

Haha. Too bad this isn't true...all this talk about bokeh and grain can get to be quite the unhealthy obsession.

"if you buy the Zörk adapter, you don't need the M2. it gives you the same D.O.F as a M2 gives. Better still, no light loss and the image stays upright." I heard it also records uncompressed HD to audio cassetes and had OIS that was superior to steadicam.

and had OIS that was superior to steadicam.
No, that's EIS :)

ok... you guy's are being mean.....

your right... the jvc and a m2 look like a barracuda! slap a mattebox on that fish and you'd be longer than a f900! ( but $70k cheaper... )

you could use the zork nikon adaptor and a lensbabie3 ( http://www.lensbabies.com )

and get some very creative DOF.... but at 50mm, it will be on the tele side of the focal length.

You'd be the 1st to try it.... look up philip bloom here on the forums.... he's got a 201 and a brevis that makes some nice footage!.... and a nice bloke to boot!

So is it possible to put off the JVC lense and replace it by a little nikon lense to reduce the size of the system ?


Would this act as a relay lens?

Andrew

I wonder if you could use this 45mm Nikon (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=220431&is=GREY&addedTroughType=search) or 40mm Voigtlander (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=363154&is=REG&addedTroughType=search) WITH an achromat (or screw on macro?) as a relay lens. They're both fairly wide lenses and since you need to zoom in on the GG anyways, the cropped image might still work.

those are a bit on the slow side...

one could flip a 50mm f1.4 around ( front to back ) and will mac a great acro/relay.

one thing to keep in mind is to make sure all lens surfaces have multi coating.... which help to eleminate internal reflections.

any modern name brande lens is multi coated.

contax/yashica mount 50 1.4's are a jewel for this type of thing. and since mount is out of production, one can find them cheap!

There seems to be a few X-Fujinon 50mm f1.8 in the hockshops from time to time. I think these may also be obsolete but it was my first f1.8 lens and worked well. It might be useful to adapt as a relay lens.

A 50mm plus an achromatic dioptre works into the JVC HD100 and XL family of cameras. With the addition of a reversed biconvex element which seems to function as a condenser, this is Quyen LE's method for the Letus35.

I missed a crucial detail... back focus will be a cinch, but you can't zoom in on the GG. So your relay will probably have to be specific to each model camera.

There should be very little variation in the field of view of the groundglass image seen by the 1/3" CCDs of any 1/3" CCD camera receiving a directly relayed image. 50mm seems about right for a 22mm - 24mm wide image off the groundglass.

Wider SLR lenses in the region 35mm to 50mm would get you more area off the groundglass but might be harder to find used and new examples over-expensive in the wide apertures required.

They might likely very bulky as well to the point you might as well keep the Fujinon standard lens for relay.

You might also find that except for a 50mm, buying in the P+S Technik's own relay lens itself is competitive as to cost and is a better performer.

buying in the P+S Technik's own relay lens itself is competitive as to cost and is a better performer.

I've thought this, too. But can you buy it separately? From where?

So how about adapting an 35mm enlarger lens like the Rodenstock Rodagon opr an L-Nikkor. I have been thinking about this. They are in general lensen designed for reproducing flat surfaces, sharp and have screwmounts.
I have the same problem, because I don't want to make my xl2 bulkier bij using the 3 or 20x lens as relay lens, and I can't afford the p&s mini 35. (nice system with the breakout etc)

So how about adapting an 35mm enlarger lens like the Rodenstock Rodagon opr an L-Nikkor. I have been thinking about this. They are in general lensen designed for reproducing flat surfaces, sharp and have screwmounts.
I have the same problem, because I don't want to make my xl2 bulkier bij using the 3 or 20x lens as relay lens, and I can't afford the p&s mini 35. (nice system with the breakout etc)

good idea.

id be concerned about the sharpness of a 35mm lens directly mounted to an hd100. if 35mm lenses are designed to resolve around 6megapixels (estimate) on a 36x24mm surface, it may have circles of confusion too large to create a sharp image on a 1280x720 1/3" sensor, not to mention its meant for a flat film plane as opposed to a prism like the hd100. anyone with experience with these mechanical lens adapters have more info?

standard 35 mm (recording) lenses are used succesfully with xl2 camorders directly via mount adapters. There is a techie in Italy that makes them. Of course you have the field of view problem. I wonder if it could be as you wrote.

finally do someone knows if P+S sells their relay lens alone ?
Would this work with the Brevis35 or the redrock M2 adapter ?

I thought about using the Zork nikon lens mount to jvc adapter with the Nikkor 20mm lens because the fujinon stock lens is used this way focusing on the ground glass.

Did someone tried ?

I can't speak for enlarger lenses, however if they have adequate aperture, why not. They would desirably have an iris aperture control. The JVC does not like to be overlit or underlit. You may get a sort of moire pattern and some small grubby marks.

I have fitted a 20mm, 28mm, 50mm and 85mm up to a HD100 via a Les Bosher adaptor so I know they work direct-to-camera. I did not subject them to a resolution test so I can't vouch for how sharp they are other than to say they looked good, which is hardly scientific.

If you just mount a SLR prime up to the HD100, via an unmodified Les Bosher or other brand adaptor, you will need the means of enabling that lens to sharply see an object that is 5" to 8" ( 125mm to 200mm ) away from camcorder focal plane or even closer, depending on the adaptor design.

That means will have to be added glass, the common method which is using an achromatic dioptre. The alternative to adding glass is to move the lens bodily closer to the groundglass and furthur away from the camcorder. Then you now need a custom adaptor for the JVC end of the thing.

The Zork mount and 20mm lens with the Brevis or M2 dioptre on front should work if that is what is happening with your existing Fujinon standard lens. You would need to make sure the centre axis of the Brevis or M2 dioptre is centred on the Nikon centre axis. If you are using threaded step up rings then this is not an issue. If you are using a mirror, or prism or hybrid mirror-prism flip path, then keeping those two axes centred and aligned is a big task. If it is off, you may see chromatic abberation.

Les Bosher or Zork for that matter could probably do a two-piece JVC mount, with a Nikon F-Mount on front and a threaded section to offset forward with grubscrews in radius holes to lock it off when the ideal focus point is found. As a custom job, it would cost you. To keep the lens orientated so the focus marks stay in the same place, the adaptor would have to be three-piece, more expensive.

The P+S Technik relay lens is designed to do all this natively. I don't know if there is another correcting element between the relay and the groundglass on the MINI35.

On the PRO35 there apparently is. This however may be intended to allow the 1/2" and 2/3" CCD cams via an eixsting relay to fully frame the image area without vignetting on the groundglass rim.

There might be an entirely new relay lens design for the PRO35. Only P+S can answer that should they choose to but it would make lots of sense to use the same relay lens across all the models if possible.

A long way back in posts past, there was reference to the P+S relay being available as a separate part. There is little reason why they would not sell it. Any business is better than no business. The nearest P+S Technik vendor to Bohol may be Singapore :

teoheric@singnet.com.sg

Alternatively, I guess you could enquire with the Sales Manager direct at P+S in Germany via email.


The same post referenced the source of the P+S relay lens as Schneider-Kreuznach, so there may even be an identical lens in an entirely different barrel capable of doing the same job.

Then it comes back to the custom mount to JVC and to back of adaptor.if the available aperture is too tight.

Delete the last seven words of the last sentence. My undiscovered error.

It might be of interest that Since the 1930's when my grandfather started our family run photo business they use to invert the large view cameras they had , including some burke and james cameras, and turn them into enlargers to print the photos. So thinking about what they did i thought, yeah, the rodenstock in reverse could take a small image from a big source and it could be 'in theory' be a good relay. Hmmm. we have lots of those lyin around. including the nikkor EL 50mm f4. Time to clean the drawing board.

The practice of using movie cameras a projectors was also around at that time. Using the originating camera for printing would be as close a guarantee as you could get to the print being faithful to the original subject.

At risk of making assumptions, my guess is that part of your childhood was enjoyably spent learning the visual arts. For me as a kid, photography, cinematography and movie projection held a simple magical fascination.

Electronic imaging versus smelly chemicals in a claustrophobic dark room does have its advantages.

If you ever saw Giuseppe(??) Tornatore's movie "Cinema Paradiso", the kid in the projector booth could have been me, except I was never allowed to operate the projectors. The cinema closed during the two years my family moved to another town and TV had taken over by then.

I may still have the bits of broken film hidden away somewhere if I bother to look.

Hi Bob,

Your assumptions are correct.

Now i was thinking about how you focus enlargers. Lets say that the negative is the ccd of the camera, if this is a correct analogy, so what shall be our computation for the flange distance? Ok, lets say a nikon EL 50mm is placed infront of the jvc instead of the stock.

Oh boy, now i'll be dreaming of this and wont be at ease till i actually go to our store room and dig out old stuffs! -now I wont get to do my job. Hahaha!

Ted

My really bad guess is that whatever the flange face to focal plane is on the enlarger lens, the setting or spacings for a 3x print, may go pretty close with the groundglass about 120mm away from the front element of the enlarger lens.

The JVC standard Fujinon "in air" flange to focal is approximately 37mm at a rough guess I arrived at by groundglassing the JVC standard lens focal plane and measuring the clearance crudely with a school ruler. The actual specification sheet should be findable on the web somewhere.

So my boiled down guess would be from the surface of the enlarger lens rear element ( I don't know what the flange to focal plane distance is for the enlarger lens ) to JVC flange would be about ( 48mm minus the 37mm which should be about ) 11mm.

If the enlarger lens does not have a focus trim available on it and focus relies entirely on racking the enlarger lens and its support itself, you would need to build in some sort of trim adjustment.

Which would be easiest, adjustment between the JVC and the relay lens, adjustment between the groundglass and relay lens or even both? As you intend to use dual format, you may need to have both adjustable in order to reframe the larger groundglass image of the medium format lenses. The JVC flange to groundglass distance might remain constant or vary much less than the movement of the relay lens itself for the format change. I'm not knowing enough on optical theory to be sure about this.

That is going to mean sliding tubes for light shields or concertina bellows. Support is going to be easiest to engineer if you use rods so you might as well go for the standard 60mm between centres used for bridgeplates, matteboxes and follow focus units.

Chances are that sort of hardware is already in your shop somewhere.

An interesting exercise. Whatever you come up with for dual format is going to look unique, that is for sure.