Anyone plan to order an HV20 that already uses a Brevis35 or has used one with the HV10? HV20 seems like a nice personal camera regardless of how it functions with lens adapters, but would like to rent a Brevis35 and do a test if nobody else is. Haven't had any luck finding a Brevis35 to rent in the Bay Area however.
Regards, Alan

I've got an HV-10 and waiting on an ordered Brevis.
I mostly ordered the B revis to go on my HVX, but I can't wait to try it on my HV-10 as well.
John

..like the HV20, but the image should be pretty close between the two. Would love to see a sample once you give your new Brevis35 a try.
Regards, Alan

I plan to get an HV20 + Brevis, or SGPro if the Brevis' sharpness is unsatisfactory (I haven't seen real raw footage from the Brevis that proves HD edge-to-edge sharpness to the same degree as the SGPro...). Matt Jeppsen (of FresHDV) is testing a Brevis with a FX1 soon, and would like to test it on a HV10 too - if anyone in the area has one...
see his "Anyone with a HV10 near Arkansas..." post:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=86999

Any thoughts on lenses? If we get too big a lens, we're going to need rails, I guess. Are you guys planning on rails / follow focus? With a lightweight rails setup, it might still be okay for handheld / tripod... what do you think? RE lenses - I'd like to use a Nikon 17-35 2.8 but I'm worried about low-light performance of the HV20 meaning I'll be restricted to shooting midday in full sunlight only... primes, anyone?
I think we'll also need a higher-res LCD. I am working on a homegrown cheap solution for that using a 10.4" 1280x768 screen. Email me if interested.

Bruce Allen
boacinema@gmail.com
www.boacinema.com

Bruce, Well I'm not so much a DP, so you can probably get better technical advice from the many who are and hopefully one will comment further for you and maybe comment on the lenses I'm interested in too. Have a Sharp 720p HD monitor available with a Vesa mount that I can flip upside down and hopefully use from the component signal of the HV20. It is a 19" I think, but you have to focus. Not your most portable.

Plan to use rails when I buy a Brevis35, but might try without for the tests if they aren't part of a rental bundle. I would think it would be more solid and better with rails, the below are lighter lenses compared to zooms, but still filter threads can only take so much. 9oz. is a real heavy filter for example, right? and then add the Brevis35 and the length of the weight makes for more force at work.

The two lenses that I'd personally like to try in the test shoot, though I don't own any and would enjoy input:
Nikon 28mm f/2.8 AI-s ( 9oz. $300 new I think).
Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 ( 5oz. stopped making in 2002, but the /D might be the same and about $120 new ).

The DP we are interested in has a RED reserved and may get it around June, so likely we'll rent that from him if everthing works out. We aren't scheduled to start principle photography until fall. Understandably, the DP would like to use Red for the feature work. The easiest likely post workflow for that camera is sort of like dealing with a 4K film scan intermediate to my basic understanding, until they have some revs out to support lower res, but hard to tell until it is out. Due to all the data, we'd have a low res proxy created to use for offline editing. We have mostly cuts and not allot of effects, 75% is on a single set. It could work really well and not be too expensive, but we are on a very tight budget. If not the RED, we'll likely rent an HVX200. Would enjoy testing an HV20 and Brevis35, which could maybe have a place if it performs well. Will shoot a short with the HV20 myself as the test, with the Brevis35 if I can rent one and the two Nikon lenses to check it out. HV20 doesn't have the controls any DP would like that much ( ie. menus mostly ) or pro audio. That is cool by me, am buying it for myself primarily and has the basics needed for good results in controlled light. Wouldn't try forcing a DP to use it that didn't want to as am more interested in a DP's work, the look they can achieve, rather than a camera. HV20 is a "must" buy for me though and my little 3CCD miniDV cam is 5+ years old.

Regards, Alan

Keep me posted on how it works out for you and I'll do the same.
Regards, Alan

Alan, I totally agree with your post, it looks like you totally know what you're doing. Anyway, with regards to the HV20, here are my contributions for the weekend, sorted by topic ;)

BREVIS VS SGPRO FOR HV20:
An innocent question: why not the SGPro? It seems sharper and a similar price once you include the cost of rails. Is it because it lowers the light more than the Brevis with CF1? I know the SGPro has a built-in achromat, but that shouldn't make it impossible to use with the HV20, right?

Here's the best SGPro stuff I could find:
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/thanar-theodoroschliapas.mov
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_pub01.m2v
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_pub02.m2v
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_pub03.m2v

...and the best Brevis stuff I could find:
http://www.altnews2646.com/tiffanyreel.mov
http://www.1080studio.com/philipbloom/jvclarge2.mp4
http://www.cinevate.com/images/face.jpg
http://www.cinevate.com/images/hair.jpg

Brevis does seem to make things quite a lot softer... here is a comparison of Brevis CF1 vs CF3 vs no 35mm adapter:
http://www.terpstar.com/test/Brevis/Desktop_CF1.jpg
http://www.terpstar.com/test/Brevis/Desktop_CF3.jpg
http://www.terpstar.com/test/Brevis/Desktop-Bare.jpeg

I guess we'll have to test and find out... hopefully Matt Jeppsen can get a hold of a HV10 for the FreshDV Brevis tests and then we'll know how sharp it is likely to be without having the achromat in the way...

LENSES
Firstly, have you seen Evin Grant's lens database on Reduser.net? He is very thoroughly testing Nikon lenses for their suitability for cine (breathing, etc)...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4

I agree with your lens choices but due to the fact that I love wides, I might still go with the 17-35 instead of the primes, because for the price of a 17mm, 24mm, 35mm prime, I think you approach the cost of the 17-35. On the other hand I've heard that a zoom lens' f2.8 is not as bright as a prime's f2.8 - hence T-stops. So I am still dithering on that one ;) I totally agree about the need for either a 1.8 or 1.4 50mm...

ACCESSORIES - RAILS
I'd be very interested in what you are planning to do with accesories. With rails, I see two possibilities:
1. go with Brevis / SGPro stock rails (probably leading to easier set-up, also Brevis rails apparently have attachment for battery for external LCD monitor?)
2. use lightweight cavision carbon-fibre rails (going with the whole run-n-gun thing, right?)
3. go with Zacuto and maybe get their whole shoulder-mount system
4. wait for the Red announcements and get a Red Rail thing (looks uncomfortable but maybe I'm wrong)

ACCESSORIES - MATTE BOXES
Again with matte boxes, you could go for:
1. cheap, light (eg cavision again)
2. big, nice, useful on other cameras (eg 4x5.65" chrosziel)
Any other brands I've missed? Petroff seems only 4x4", Arri is very expensive (does it offet much more than the chrosziel?) and geardear looks really weird and confusing (maybe I've written it off too soon)

ACCESSORIES - BATTERIES
Different batteries for everything (35mm adapter, LCD, camera), or power from one Anton Bauer, which could be moved backwards to counterbalance the front-heavy rails setup?

ACCESSORIES - FOLLOW FOCUS
Supposedly the current M2 follow focus has fixed the earlier problems with play, etc, right? Otherwise, I'll probably wait to see what the Brevis follow-focus is like... and then, just to confuse things, we have the remote-control-operated ones...

RED
I'm totally with you on the Red - it looks very promising - and agree with your post workflow. I just finished graphics for a trailer at 4K and agree that proxies, etc are definitely the way to go. I think (as you probably do too) that the sweet spot for the next year or two will be to shoot 4K compressed RAWcode but finish 2K.

What do you think about all of the above? Let's continue to share research. It's fun and it saves time.

Cheers

Bruce

I vote for the HV20 + SGpro + Nikon lens combo. The SGpro is the sharpest adapter I have ever seen and it produces the most convincing bokeh out of the bunch. Of course the Brevis is easier to set up and that might be of greater importance to someone else.

Bruce and Ron, Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I look forward to John and Matt testing the Brevis35 with the HV10. As for my Brevis35 interest, it is due to the easy setup and low light loss, but will need to look into the SGPro more based on the feedback here. As for the matte boxes, rails and follow focus, I don't know enough to be useful there other than my "producer intuition", which you should think of as spidy sense, without the spider or the cents, says rails and a support would be prudent to avoid damaged equipment or worse case people damage during a shoot if anything flys loose. I'm big on safety for others, if it is just me at risk, I'll duck and save the money. Many DPs wouldn't want to use an HV20 because of the consumer controls and would of coarse want a matte box etc., make very good use of one and a follow focus certainly. I'd be OK just putting filters/hood right on the Nikon 28 and 50mm lenses for my personal shooting and using a tape measure for focus. Masking tape with pen marks to rack focus an ocasional shot is what I'll do for myself. For run and gun would likely just use the HV20 and dump the 35mm adapter, even use the Canon autofocus when it makes sense. Will have a large HD monitor for focus and flip the image whenever a shallow DOF is desired. Worked on a CineAlta F900 shoot once and an external monitor really helped with focus and that had a pretty decent viewfinder. Projecting dailies in HD is also a good idea to check focus, though only use 720p myself, go for 1080p if you can. The info about the Nikon 17-35mm was great, the two I mentioned are supposed to be some of Nikon's sharpest and most distortion free, at any price, but would have loved to see some test info. That is why I'll likely pick up the F1.8 50mm instead of the F1.4, which should also be a fine lens and the speed can come in real handy obviously.

Bruce, We should stay in touch, may actually shoot a weekend down in LA if we come through with a name actor for the only significant supporting role. Those scenes will all be in a single interior location between Jamelske ( one of our two lead characters ) and the owner of a bottle returnables facility. The right actor would be worth van pooling down for anytime in my book.

Regards, Alan

Bruce and Ron, Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I look forward to John and Matt testing the Brevis35 with the HV10. As for my Brevis35 interest, it is due to the easy setup and low light loss, but will need to look into the SGPro more based on the feedback here. As for the matte boxes, rails and follow focus, I don't know enough to be useful there other than my "producer intuition", which you should think of as spidy sense, without the spider or the cents, says rails and a support would be prudent to avoid damaged equipment or worse case people damage during a shoot if anything flys loose. I'm big on safety for others, if it is just me at risk, I'll duck and save the money. Many DPs wouldn't want to use an HV20 because of the consumer controls and would of coarse want a matte box etc., make very good use of one and a follow focus certainly. I'd be OK just putting filters/hood right on the Nikon 28 and 50mm lenses for my personal shooting and using a tape measure for focus. Masking tape with pen marks to rack focus an ocasional shot is what I'll do for myself. For run and gun would likely just use the HV20 and dump the 35mm adapter, even use the Canon autofocus when it makes sense. Will have a large HD monitor for focus and flip the image whenever a shallow DOF is desired Worked on a CineAlta F900 shoot once and an external monitor really helped with focus and that had a pretty decent viewfinder. Projecting dailies in HD is also a good idea to check focus just as a tip, though only use 720p myself, go for 1080p if you can. The info about the Nikon 17-35mm was great, the two I mentioned are supposed to be some of NIkon's sharpest and most distortion free, at any price, but would have loved to see some test info. That is why I'll likely pick up the F1.8 50mm instead of the F1.4, which should also be a fine lens and the speed can come in real handy obviously.

Bruce, We should stay in touch, we may actually shoot a weekend down in LA if we come through with a name actor for the only significant supporting role. Those scenes will all be in a single interior location between Jamelske ( one of our two lead characters ) and the owner of a bottle returnables facility.

Regards, Alan

Bruce,
..just an update, so stay in touch. We were strongly looking at the SGPro based on some input here along with various footage and the informal shootout, but have a shoot scheduled April 28th ( it is a pretty basic 1 minute short called Bedtime for Elle Faunt ). The SGPro folks weren't sure it could get here in time. I think both appear to be good products, but the Brevis35 was promised beginning of March, so we went for the ease of setup, light advantage and quicker delivery. Will let you know how the HV20 performs with the Brevis35 and please do likewise with the SGPro when you get yours. I'm glad there are some small manufacturers out there in this market. We'll be using the adapter with the HVX200 later as well if we don't shoot with Red. There are at least two rental houses in the San Francisco area with the big name in 35mm adapters, but any others are really not available here for rent as yet to my knowledge. We may rent or loan ours some once ( or if ) it isn't key to our fall production. High quality low budget narrative production seems to be increasing in the Bay Area. I really enjoyed Quality of Life for example, though that was S16 I believe. Wouldn't try all the fancy DOF look they used in either project we have planned, but it was genius for that feature. I'm old and have never tagged anything, but it worked on a level I got into. There is always allot of documentary activity here.

Regards, Alan

Alan, you'll find the Brevis sharpness, edge to edge, excellent :-) We're intensely interested in seeing how this camera performs as it will almost certainly not require the use of our HD achromat This likelihood makes the HV20 and Brevis a very cost effective HD/24p combination.

I'll be getting an SG Pro and I have an HV20 on order, so I'll be sure to post footage from this combo once it's ready. I know - 1080p - 1k!

In terms of adapters, I was planning on getting a Brevis, but until Dennis posts real footage of the device working in real situations, sorry. Wayne's SG Pro has proven itself to retain the sharpness and latitude I require, and as such I have ordered one. Dennis - I know you're busy, but get on that marketing bandwagon! Hire someone to spend the mere 20 hours to refresh that site of yours - if not for the immediate gratification, certainly, for the awareness that it'll create for down the road. I think the Brevis is a great product, but without being able to hand test one, show more examples with that fancy A1 of yours!

Alan, you'll find the Brevis sharpness, edge to edge, excellent :-) We're intensely interested in seeing how this camera performs as it will almost certainly not require the use of our HD achromat This likelihood makes the HV20 and Brevis a very cost effective HD/24p combination.

Dennis, I'll post a short writeup and example after I get the Brevis35 ( #600 )and have it setup properly with the HV20. Will see if I can get them working together without the achromat first. Have both 43 to 58 and 72mm rings ready to go with a Nikon 50mm AIS lens. So far, will say the HV20 appears to function well in 24p cine mode though it craves allot of light. Did see your demo configuration for mounting the HV20 to rails upside down and think that could work great once I order some rails. The HV20 certainly is a tiny camera without real weight to speak of, but when I projected at 720p the image holds up.
Regards, Alan

Alan, you'll find the Brevis sharpness, edge to edge, excellent :-) We're intensely interested in seeing how this camera performs as it will almost certainly not require the use of our HD achromat This likelihood makes the HV20 and Brevis a very cost effective HD/24p combination.

Dennis,
Personally I would love to try the Brevis with the HV20
(it has a 43mm filter size)
What do I need to order besides the HD imaging adapter and a nikon mount?
(I wont use rails and will focus by hand)
but I am also interested in your diffusers - wow

Thanks
J

Robert, it's true...our focus right now is generally technical, and less on the marketing side. Getting 100% caught up with all the orders has been priority one, and we're pretty happy to be about two weeks from that. That said, we've got guys like Paul Nordin posting up spectaclular HVX work (http://www.embstudios.com/Paul-Circulation-reel.html ) with the Brevis far beyond any shooting I'll ever do. There are also plenty of great clips available from the cinevate forum footage section. If you haven't seen Paul's work, Bob Gundu's work, or Phil Bloom's "Homeless Portraits" you're not seeing the adapter at it's best.

Our web site will be unrecognizable in a few weeks...lots coming on that front.

To be honest, the vertical blue/yellow fringing issue with the bare XH-A1, is restraining me from posting a ton of outdoors/wide footage from it, and a big problem for testing. To post the wide shots from the adapter, despite being tack sharp, is also to post shots of blue fringing at high contrast peripheral areas of the frame. Rather than endless explanations about the Brevis itself not being the cause, I'd rather post footage from a clean cam. These are issues obviously that are not noticeable to most viewers, but for me, they're glaring problems. I'm currently working on an answer from Canon and have brought the issue to the attention of the guys at Leo's Camera's to work on with the Canon rep here in Canada. I've done enough testing with the A1 to know the issue is not going away with preset tweaking, aperture/zoom tuning, or even lower exposure levels. Best guess from the shop is that it's the A1 lens, combined with HDV encoding at 4:2:0 that's the likely culprit.

I'm really hoping the HV20 can do better as far as the fringing issue goes.

John, all you'd need is the HD adapter itself ordered with the Nikon mount. We'll be stocking the step up rings sets for the HV20 by next week or so. The Pelican case and charger/DC adapter is still part of the basic kit.

excellent Dennis, thanks,
(I also wonder which diffuser screen you would personally recommend)

Thank You,
J

I'd recommend imaging elements pretty much based on what type of shooting you're planning. Paul (clips posted above) used CF1 in all of the clips posted and was using wide angle lenses, and lenses stopped down (deeper DOF) for steadicam work in the shots. Phil Bloom used CF1 for his "Homeless Portraits" bascially as it has outstanding light efficiency..and he was shooting with natural, or available light only. For moody dialogue type shoots where max shallow DOF is desired, CF3 would be my choice.

We have something very interesting coming from the prototype program in about two weeks. I suspect it may slot in where CF2 used to be...but with the ability to use slower/longer lenses with zero vignette. This one is taking a bit longer due to the need for some specialized equipment that didn't exist two months ago :-)

Hmm, not sure who posted this up...but a quick HV20 clip with the Brevis (http://www.cinevate.com/images/hv20_brevis.mov). Wow.

Great to hear that the site will overhauled.

Marketing is oh-so important! Speaking of which, as for the XH-A1 footage - I understand. I've downloaded some nicely composed shots taken with the XH-A1 and in every shot, man oh man, the fringing chromatic aberration. I'm pretty sure it's the lens, and yes, I'm sure people would have something in their mind "I don't want a Brevis if it does this" - even though it wouldn't. It's a shame, and a flaw of the lens.

The 1920x1080 HV20 footage shot with a "naked" camera looks good - no aberrations that I've seen. Interesting idea.. getting an HV20 and a Brevis and still attaining the resolution that XH-A1 achieves without that nasty effect due to the poor lens on the camera.. hmm.

I'm really hoping the HV20 can do better as far as the fringing issue goes.



Dennis, there is no fringing issue on either the HV10 or the new HV20. I've got both and I've seen shot after shot with the Canon A1 that shows the fringing you're talking about. In fact it would probably keep me from buying an A1. So I'd bet it's more a function of the A1 lens than HDV since neither of the small Canon HDV units show it.

Any more news on this? Who did it? It's a small file, but it looks incredible.

No word on it yet, but it was sitting on our private ftp only accessible to Brevis owners. The HV20 footage is very clean. I should say that although a lot of A1 users have mentioned the blue fringing...I've only personally only seen my own tests.

So the link in your last post didn't work Dennis, but I assume it's the same as the one you posted two or three posts back.

I haven't followed this enough, so I figured I'd just ask. What are the problems, if any, with the Brevis and the A1? And if there is some sort of fringing or artifacting, does it seem to be apparent on the HV20 with Brevis footage. The actual footage I just watched looked breathtaking. But it was a very brightly lit piece, and compressed as a smaller, perhaps more forgiving file.

I'd lover to see this Brevis stuff as 1080p files.

thanks,

EDIT - just read through this thread(was too lazy to read it before!) and I understand the whole fringing issue now Dennis. Perhaps this HV20 and a Brevis is the way to go? Hmmmm.

Brevis, HV20, and this...

http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=3


The big 100 gig one. Check out all the formats it can record to! These three items would make a killer buget 24P HD system.