Hello.

I am a budding videographer whose subject is trains. I currently have an old Sony DV camcorder that does OK, but with the advent of large flat panel HD televisions, this camcorder just doesn't get the job done up to what I want to produce that represents me. Getting into HD seems to be the answer for me. I want to start accumulating footage in HD for eventual editing and production into a product.

I have looked into the specs of the FX7, and those of other "prosumer" camcorders. I already know that the FX7 does not offer some features that the others do, but my budget is limited, so many of those other cams are beyond consideration. $2000.00 is pretty much my limit, with $2500.00 really stretching things, but possible.

Most all of my shooting takes place outside, from snowstorms, to rain, to hot sunny days, to cool evenings just at sunset. The locations will be in hot dusty deserts, high altitude mountain passes, sweltering city industrial sites, and cold, windy fields. Only a small part of my time will I need to shoot inside of a building. I need a camera that shoots good accurate colors, produces decent sound (eventual stereo?), that is sturdy, easy to use and portable. I use a good tripod 85% of the time, the rest being hand held. Currently, I have Studio v.10, and a good computer for editing.

I am only moderately technical (or whatever). I was a junior high teacher for thirty years, so my brain may be slightly fried, but I think I can still learn a few things and handle a somewhat more sophisticated camera than I currently have. I think I know what manuel functions I want, but additional advice would be appreciated.

So, will the FX7 do the job? Will I be able to find one within my budget? And finally, where can I find one from a reputable dealor? Or is there another camcorder out there that would do a better job for the money I have?

Thanks.

Yes the fx7 will do the job for outside lighting , you will be happy

If you want to stay under $2000 you may have to give up some manual control. The Sony HC7 and the Canon HV20 (not out yet) are both supposed to be very good point and shoot cams with limited manual control, each for well under $1500.

The FX7 would be a great choice but a little pricey for your budget, and as they're pretty new I wouldn't think there are used ones available yet. And I wouldn't trust anyone who offers a new one for under $2700. You might be able to pick up a used FX1 for somewhere in your price range, though. Both would give you a stunning picture and many manual controls.

If you have a Sony Outlet in your area (check their website) then you could pick up a refurbished FX1 for $2500. My local outlet had two last week.

Edit: Apperently there are three outlets within a day's drive, but none closer than about 5 1/2 hours away (Aurora, IL). I suppose you could give them a call to see if they have one.

Any of the sponsors of this site would be good buying choices, and I've also had very good luck at B&H.

I think I know what manuel functions I want, but additional advice would be appreciated.


What manual functions do you want?

The manual controls I would be interested in would be those such as: focus, white balance, iris, filters?, etc. By filters, I think I mean color temperatures? And any others that might help me get a truer picture.

As for the prices of the FX7, I have time. I would like to get this camcorder sometime this coming summer; preferrably June. I am hoping that between me saving my pennies and hopefully some degree of price dropping, I will be able to afford an FX7, or something of like performance. Aurora Illinois would be a trip, but once the snow clears, one that could be possible, but would rather spend the money on the camcorder than on gas.

Love the "tourist" label just below my name. From where I live, a tourist is sometimes called a "fudgie" (since we sell a lot of fudge up here to tourists), or a "conelicker" (referring to the amount of ice cream cones one sees tourists carrying around).

Mike

You might want to take a close look at Canon's new HV20. They have the manual available for download on their site.

Thanks to all who have offered their insights. It is very much appreciated.

I just have one more concern. Actually, it is the one major scare that I have about the FX7, and that is the CMOS sensor. I have read that a CMOS sensor has a problem with motion...that it cannot cleanly record a moving object as well as CCDs. Is there really anything to this?

Mike

Thanks to all who have offered their insights. It is very much appreciated.

I just have one more concern. Actually, it is the one major scare that I have about the FX7, and that is the CMOS sensor. I have read that a CMOS sensor has a problem with motion...that it cannot cleanly record a moving object as well as CCDs. Is there really anything to this?

Mike

Well...when you consider the newest rage camera uses CMOS (Red), and that all future cameras will use CMOS...I think that alone speaks for itself.
CMOS, like anything else, has grades of quality. The V1 has a very good CMOS, but it's not the best that the world has to offer, by the same token, my cell phone has a good CMOS sensor in it, but it too, isn't the best there is.
The RED arguably has the best there is, but at nearly 20K, it better.
CMOS vs CCD is the least of your concerns. The FX7 uses 3 1/4 CMOS chips, and will do a good job, except in the lowest of light. This is where CMOS fails by direct comparison to CCD, CCD can usually manage low light better.

I have read that a CMOS sensor has a problem with motion...that it cannot cleanly record a moving object as well as CCDs. Is there really anything to this?Mike, if there were anything to that, then they never would have put CMOS sensors in video camcorders... but it's quickly becoming the image sensor technology of choice these days.

I just have one more concern. Actually, it is the one major scare that I have about the FX7, and that is the CMOS sensor. I have read that a CMOS sensor has a problem with motion...that it cannot cleanly record a moving object as well as CCDs. Is there really anything to this?

Mike

In all fairness that USED to be a big problem with CMOS sensors. Recently that problem has been solved. So it's not an invalid concern, just one that needs updating. There's still a lot of security style CMOS cameras on the market with bad smear porblems. You just need to undertand that the sensors used in todays CMOS camcorders are totally different beasts.

I pointed my V1 up at my ceiling fan on it's highest speed. I can pretty much freeze it's motion cleanly at 1/250th shutter without noticeable rolling shutter effect. Above that shutter speed, the blades start to look curved. It really isn't noticeable and I really don't see any reason someone would want to shoot at faster than 1/250th shutter. It would simply be a waste of light in anything but a photo-finish camera at an Indy car race. CMOS is just fine.

Thanks for the info on the CMOS chip. It does put mind more at ease. Of course the low light is of some concern, but not tremendously so. I think for 90% of my shooting, low light will not be a problem. Accurate colors and clarity of moving objects is more important. I want the best possible picture on my 42 inch HD plasma that I can afford to produce.

Now it will be a matter of saving money, reading reviews, and waiting. When I have more questions, I will be sure to ask. There is the possibility that by June, more products will be available and I might stray from the FX7, but right now, that is the camcorder I am aiming at.

Mike

Hello.

I am a budding videographer whose subject is trains. I currently have an old Sony DV camcorder that does OK, but with the advent of large flat panel HD televisions, this camcorder just doesn't get the job done up to what I want to produce that represents me. Getting into HD seems to be the answer for me. I want to start accumulating footage in HD for eventual editing and production into a product.

I have looked into the specs of the FX7, and those of other "prosumer" camcorders. I already know that the FX7 does not offer some features that the others do, but my budget is limited, so many of those other cams are beyond consideration. $2000.00 is pretty much my limit, with $2500.00 really stretching things, but possible.

Most all of my shooting takes place outside, from snowstorms, to rain, to hot sunny days, to cool evenings just at sunset. The locations will be in hot dusty deserts, high altitude mountain passes, sweltering city industrial sites, and cold, windy fields. Only a small part of my time will I need to shoot inside of a building. I need a camera that shoots good accurate colors, produces decent sound (eventual stereo?), that is sturdy, easy to use and portable. I use a good tripod 85% of the time, the rest being hand held. Currently, I have Studio v.10, and a good computer for editing.

I am only moderately technical (or whatever). I was a junior high teacher for thirty years, so my brain may be slightly fried, but I think I can still learn a few things and handle a somewhat more sophisticated camera than I currently have. I think I know what manuel functions I want, but additional advice would be appreciated.

So, will the FX7 do the job? Will I be able to find one within my budget? And finally, where can I find one from a reputable dealor? Or is there another camcorder out there that would do a better job for the money I have?

Thanks.

well i put some film in for a look but nobody wanted to know.

Chris. Could you leave me a link or something that I might access your information?

Thanks.
Mike

well i put some film in for a look but nobody wanted to know.

I don't understand that sentence. What film? Where?

I pointed my V1 up at my ceiling fan on it's highest speed. I can pretty much freeze it's motion cleanly at 1/250th shutter without noticeable rolling shutter effect. Above that shutter speed, the blades start to look curved. It really isn't noticeable and I really don't see any reason someone would want to shoot at faster than 1/250th shutter. It would simply be a waste of light in anything but a photo-finish camera at an Indy car race. CMOS is just fine.

Shutter speed doesn't affect bending. You will just see it more clearly as the motion blur goes away. One of the worst things about a rolling shutter isn't the fact that moving objects bend, it's the wobbly action that goes on when the camera shakes. You can see it pretty badly in cellphone cmos-cameras, they look horrible when shooting motion. HC1 has a moderate amount of it and its just about usable, but I've heard the fx7 should have a faster scanning speed.

Have not heard about this bending of objects. How bad is this with the FX7? My video will be aimed at large screen TVs. I do not want a camera with a serious weakness that will be very noticable on a large flat panel HD TV. How common is this rolling shutter? Is there anything that can counteract this affect? Or will I have to spend much more money to get an HD camcorder without one?

I know my finished product will not be able to compete with someone shooting with an $8000.00 camera, but I want it to look as good as possible with the money I have to spend.

Mike

This bending of vertical objects. How bad is this with the FX7? Are there any examples out there showing this? Can it be adjusted?

Thanks.
Mike

Vertical bending is an aspect of any lower end fixed CMOS system at high shutter speeds, usually in the 250 or higher range. It's referred to as "Rolling shutter" and can be Googled for a lot of low view or high view information.
Ironically, doing so turns up DVInfo.net as the primary place people are talking about the issue, which also demonstrates it's not a real issue at all, once you know what to avoid. There is a tremendous amount of information out there, and along with that, some misinformation.

Thanks for your help.

Mike

I think the FX7 is a great camera and would be well suited to your videography needs. It is very sharp, in fact it's the sharpest shooting HDV cam I've owned and tried- and I've tried a few....get one you'll be pleased.

Thanks Steve.

I received my FX7 today and I'm very happy. I tested it today recording inside my house and I liked the results. If tomorrow doesn't rains I will do more test outside.

Steve,

Do you have both the Canon and the FX 7?

Can you tell us how you find the differences in low light reception work particularly?

...and any other titbits of course.

Cheers Vaughan

Thanks to all for their encouragement. I have read and reread all the responses thus far and am very encouraged. I guess that with the amount of money envolved, I am very, very cautious, so forgive me if I seem to be asking the same questions over and over.

So far, I like the FX7 the best, followed by the Canon HV20, and then the Sony HC7. I think I will spend the extra money for the FX7 due to the extra weight. That weight will help me keep the cam steady when doing hand holding. Most of the time I use a tripod, but on occasion, I hand hold the cam. With the little, light, camcorders, I have more of a tendency to shake more (age I guess). On a big screen plasma, that shake would be very annoying. Also, I am hoping that with the heavier camcorder, the fluid head on my tripod will pan smoother.

I am interested in hearing from all of you who have shot video with the FX7 in one or more of the following situations and have first hand experience.
1. Nature scenes...the big outdoors. Grand vistas. How accurate are the colors in your scenes? How clear is the video? How is the detail, clarity, for distant objects? Is it anything like what I can see on Discovery HD on my plasma?
2. Moving objects...cars, trains, other quick moving things. How is the auto focus? How much blurring is there? Any macroblocking? How much pixalation?
3. Sound...realistic capture. Dynamics; does it capture the differences between loud and soft with some degree of accuracy? Clarity; does the sound, sound natural? Unwanted sounds; is there much in the way of camcorder noise, unwanted wind noise?
4. Image control...eliminating any unwanted enhancements like overexposure, too much color, incorrect color, edge enhancements, etc.

I really want to capture video that is heads and shoulders above what I now get with my 9 year old Sony DV camcorder. And I would like to be able to show off my stuff on a plasma and have the video knock the socks off anyone who is watching. Mind you, I don't have a lot of money, so I can't afford a 4, 5, or 8 thousand dollar camcorder. In fact, the FX7 will be taxing my finances enought as it is. But I want to get the best product that I can, for the kind of video I will be shooting (scenery, trains, airshows, and eventually family), for the small amount of money I have to spend.

I hope many will respond.

Thanks.
Mike

Yeah I've had just about all the HDV cams and the FX7 is the sharpest of the bunch. It has a great zoom lens and enough adjustments to keep just about anyone happy. The Canon XH has more adjustments- almost too many- I think the FX7 will do for most shooters.
In default mode the FX7 produces cleaner video than my A1 did (less noise) and has a nice form factor.
The A1 is simply awesome in it's adjustment offerings- but for those that don;t utilize all the tweaks- you'll be better suited with the less expensive FX7. The A1 is a bit soft but does allow for beautiful tonalities- the FX7 is similar to the PD150 but in widescreen HDV- as where the Canon is like the GL2 but in HDV....some guys love the Sony look while others prefer the Canon.
I feel the Canon is the better of the two cameras but also comes with the higher pricepoint......but dollar for dollar the FX7 is a fantastic value.
The Canon HV10 is probably the best bang for the buck period- but for those wanting the longer zoom lens and incredibly sharp video without haloing- the FX7 is hard to beat!

The FX7 is overshadowed by the A1 and rightly so- but you must take into consideration the higher price as well. My biggest gripe with the FX7 was the lack of "DV signal rec" via firewire- so external DTE devices such as firestores that use that signal to record to external device wont work remotely- as you'll need to trigger them on the unit.....that's a poor ommision considering the Canon DOES have that signal. If the FX7 had utilized that signal I might have kept it- but JVC's new HD Everio seems better suited as a all-in-one unit.....so the FX7 was sold.

I really can't recommend the FX7 enough- it's truly a great camera that's overshadowed and overlooked for a more expensive Canon that is better only in it's adjustability- otherwise performance in indeed very similar.

Good luck to all.
(Just my personal observations- others may vary)

but JVC's new HD Everio seems better suited as a all-in-one unit.

Another person who is curious about what seems like an obvious solution -- put the HDD "IN" the camcorder -- and forget the tape transport entirely. This allows lets JVC be free of HDV specs while still using MPEG-2. For NLE's that support MPEG-2, rather than "just" HDV, JVC's move to an industry standard rather than a marketing standard -- is great news.

Now if only we find a 720p24, 720p25, 720p50, and 720p60 version at NAB.

UPDATE: the are video samples at the HD100 forum. Classic very tiny CCD problem. Near zero lattitue! The V1 really solves the lattitude problem.

Thanks to all for their encouragement. I have read and reread all the responses thus far and am very encouraged. I guess that with the amount of money envolved, I am very, very cautious, so forgive me if I seem to be asking the same questions over and over.

So far, I like the FX7 the best, followed by the Canon HV20, and then the Sony HC7. I think I will spend the extra money for the FX7 due to the extra weight. That weight will help me keep the cam steady when doing hand holding. Most of the time I use a tripod, but on occasion, I hand hold the cam. With the little, light, camcorders, I have more of a tendency to shake more (age I guess). On a big screen plasma, that shake would be very annoying. Also, I am hoping that with the heavier camcorder, the fluid head on my tripod will pan smoother.

I am interested in hearing from all of you who have shot video with the FX7 in one or more of the following situations and have first hand experience.
1. Nature scenes...the big outdoors. Grand vistas. How accurate are the colors in your scenes? How clear is the video? How is the detail, clarity, for distant objects? Is it anything like what I can see on Discovery HD on my plasma?
2. Moving objects...cars, trains, other quick moving things. How is the auto focus? How much blurring is there? Any macroblocking? How much pixalation?
3. Sound...realistic capture. Dynamics; does it capture the differences between loud and soft with some degree of accuracy? Clarity; does the sound, sound natural? Unwanted sounds; is there much in the way of camcorder noise, unwanted wind noise?
4. Image control...eliminating any unwanted enhancements like overexposure, too much color, incorrect color, edge enhancements, etc.

I really want to capture video that is heads and shoulders above what I now get with my 9 year old Sony DV camcorder. And I would like to be able to show off my stuff on a plasma and have the video knock the socks off anyone who is watching. Mind you, I don't have a lot of money, so I can't afford a 4, 5, or 8 thousand dollar camcorder. In fact, the FX7 will be taxing my finances enought as it is. But I want to get the best product that I can, for the kind of video I will be shooting (scenery, trains, airshows, and eventually family), for the small amount of money I have to spend.

I hope many will respond.

Thanks.
Mike

for nature the fx-7 will be ideal, 20x and d extender that can be put on the no 1 assign button to give what is as good as a 30x zoom,i see no loss as such in quality with mine using d extender.
i use a rode stereo mike with mine as the on;board mike is not that brilliant and unless used with a tripod all the time you do get some handling noise.
the only thing i personally dislike about the picture is green it has a mushy pea look to my mind,i have tried three fx-7s and greens have been the same with them all,other colors i find fine.
unlike my hc-1 which gives better color on manual white balance my fx-7 is best left on auto.
i have the same trouble as you holding small cams handheld but at times i have use the fx-7 handheld without too much shake,but more often use a brace or tripod.
whatever hdv cam you get it will blow your 9 year old sony cam away picture wise,i wish you luck chris hull