I was wondering if those who were at the seminar saw the new body that they were about to contruct. If yes how did it look? If no did they tell you anything about when it would be able to see it?

The "new body" for the SI-2K won't be ready till NAB. We'll have a booth setup on the show-floor this year (we won't be stuck in the corner of the Adobe booth), so keep an eye out for upcoming announcements.

Will the new body and kit be avaliable for delivery after NAB?

Well, I can't get into our internal hard deliver dates right now, but we're targeting very shortly after NAB.

""new body" for the SI-2K won't be ready till NAB"

so does that make it official the Jan 2007 estimate release didn't happen
and there is NO current official release date ?...

i thought we were suppose to see new photo/design of body last Nov?

so does that make it official the Jan 2007 estimate release didn't happen

As with any complicated engineering project, we ran into some complications . . .rather than pass those complications onto you as the end-user and write-off any issues as "growing-pains", we figured we would through some re-designing to make sure that any problems/issues we had been dealing with are solved 100%, and all the features that we've targeted for our first release are in the shipping product.

So yes, while there has been a delay, and me missed a publicly targetted goal, it's a good delay in that we'll end up with a much better end-product . . . rather than dumping a gen-1 product on the market that's basically an expensive public beta, we're making sure what we come out with works full-time and is the "real-thing", ready for real-world production use.

The good news is that we're marching head-on into NAB and expect to have some very exciting things to show both for the physical cameras themselves and the workflows that make our cameras tick.

Shortly after NAB is also when RED is supposed to start shipping. If both cameras indeed make it to the market, what's the advantage of paying 20k for a 2k camera which is basically a computer with a security camera linked to it instead of paying 17.5k for a well thought out 4K camera? I'm mean, there's really a different market for both? Otherwise the choice seems to be a non brainer. Unless the Si2K will have a HUGE price cut or something. Like cost as much as a XL-H1, then I can see the advantage of going for it. Otherwise...

Shortly after NAB is also when RED is supposed to start shipping. If both cameras indeed make it to the market, what's the advantage of paying 20k for a 2k camera which is basically a computer with a security camera linked to it instead of paying 17.5k for a well thought out 4K camera?

You don't get a shooting RED rig for $17,500, that's just a headline figure for the camera head, the actual cost will be higher. You really need to compare the cost of RED in a 2k shooting configuration to the cost of a similar SI-2k.

Quite a lot of people don't need 35mm sized sensors with the increased lens size, weight and focus pulling issues. The SI Mini has a major size advantage over the RED head (it's also cheaper), so it has the potential to be given serious consideration by anyone shooting a film in confined spaces.

I suspect the RED is basically also a sensor with a computer linked to it, since it's also using IT technology.

Both cameras are worthwhile new tools.

You don't get a shooting RED rig for $17,500, that's just a headline figure for the camera head, the actual cost will be higher.

The 20K price tag for the Si2K is for the camera only as well right? Not a full shooting package. RED is cheaper and seems "better".

You really need to compare the cost of RED in a 2k shooting configuration to the cost of a similar SI-2k.

RED has no price difference for 2K or 4K really. 16mm PL lenses aren't that cheaper than their 35mm counterparts. That's basically the only difference you could have and affect price. RED will also have a Nikon mount option for really cheap and good glass.

Quite a lot of people don't need 35mm sized sensors with the increased lens size, weight and focus pulling issues.

True. But when RED can get you a camera that can do it all and for cheaper, what's the point? You can have 4k and 35mm DOF just in case you need one day and don't need to pay more for it.



The SI Mini has a major size advantage over the RED head (it's also cheaper), so it has the potential to be given serious consideration by anyone shooting a film in confined spaces.

Cheaper? Yes the camera on it's own but what are you using to record? How about storage media?

I suspect the RED is basically also a sensor with a computer linked to it, since it's also using IT technology.


Well, every camera is a sensor with a computer. The difference is the SI camera looks and seems like something you could make in your garage while RED, the F900 or Varicam don't.

You have no way of knowing how much "better" either of these cameras are. All that can be said is that the SI prototypes have been used on actual productions and the RED is unproven in this regard. The camera head of the SI 2k can be bought for less than the RED - it's called the SI Mini and you can record onto your laptop from it.

16mm lenses are a lot smaller than 35mm lenses. Try shooting a documentary with a 10:1 35mm zoom lens.

The vast majority of productions never need 35mm DOF and I suspect there will be a bit of quality engineering in getting high quality follow focus gears to work Nikon stills lenses with their small, compressed focus scales with the required precision.

Storage - You'll have to wait to hear what is included in the SI $20k package. The camera records onto hard drives and if one or more of these are included at this price I haven't heard. Certainly the RED $17.5k price doesn't include any hard drives or rails etc - $20k is a likely price for a very basic RED.

You'll have to wait to hear what is included in the SI $20k package. The camera records onto hard drives, so if one or more of these are included I haven't heard. Certainly the RED $17.5k price doesn't include any hard drives. I'm sure the SI people are well aware of being competitive with the RED in this regard

I suspect decisions are going to be made more on the cost, ergonomics and workflows of these cameras than they might need 4k some day.

The pictures are of a prototype for testing, not the final production camera. Like RED, the SI people have received feedback and I assume this will be reflected in the final production camera's design.

There are a number of HD cameras coming out in this price range this year, they'll all have pluses and minuses: none of them will perfect for everyone, so having all these choices is good for the industry.

I totally agree with Brian. The Si is a lot cheaper then RED in many ways especially if you want to own the total package yourself I've looked around to build myself a kit and the si camera in conjunction with other components such as an optar illumina kit (I don't know of a high quality low prised supplement for the zeiss lenses in 35mm, please correct me if I'm wrong) your favourite computer monitor featuring 1920x1080 some standars usb-harddrives(Have we heard anything about what the reddrives will cost?) a small generator and you have a complete recording kit with cheap monitoring, ok it's not color aqurate but who cares since you're recording raw (I'm mean you see if you're totally wrong it's not black and white) the above will set you back about 14k. All that for 34K that unheard of (and you own all by yourself. Thats what I call independent) For that money all I would get in sweden would be a sony f350 with a half decent lens. Then I don't even have monitor capabilities.

The most beatiful thing is that it plugs in perfectly into my already estblished cineform pipeline. I think that RED is a better camera but the SI is the cheapest and best evolved kit/product(til this day, the situation can change of course.)

I really love the fact that people at SI, cineform and irridas are cooperating to give you the whole chain. I mean am I the only one that think it's kind lame that final cut started to support the hd100 just a few months ago (avid xpress still doesen't do it. without tricks) The point is that the companys from jvc to apple just care about their product if they cared they wold guaranteed it before they started to sell their product(especially jvc that should have thought of a sollution before they launched their cameras). With this camera you have guy's and girls that wan't you to have it all the moment you start (ok for now you have to use pp2 but at least you can finnish your projects. I've followed their sperarate paths and all I can say is bravo. (I am in no way affiliated with the companys above I just appreciate people using their knowledge to deliver product that will make my life easier and more independent)

Michael I really think that you're attitude towards the SI-price is really weird. What if they were to sell it for the price of a H1 then what should the H1 cost? 2K and then the Z1 500$ maybe?
I know Jim is a billionaire but I don't think that he's a magician, sooner or later we will understand what his financial plan is. Maybe his model is to loose money on the red and gain it back on wievfinders and redpack(like playstation 3 and xbox 360). I fully support his efforts and I also respect the stuff I mention above(about earning money) But until I see the RED-camera and offer someone 17,5k and they are willing to give it to me I won't believe it. I still can't believe that he can get a fullframe 4k sensor doing 24 frames /s(if he hasn't built his own factory) that cheap that he can sell it for that price. (Don't see this as trolling I really wan't it to be true but I just can't believe it until I see someone owning it).

Actually I'm not biased towards any of these cameras and a lot of my kind words can be equally applied to the RED-team. I just feel that I can't afford the RED if my scepticism towards it is justified. Michael I really feel that a lot of your comments are unjustified. If the RED-team are able to match the SI price point by point that only means that the RED is better not that The SI-is a bad camera that should be be put on some kind of sale. I really think if someone need dirt for giving the customer little love for their money (compared to the two mentioned above) It should be the big companys that never end their greedy productsegmentattion that not only hold the technical quality on independent productions down but also cripple their techical innovation due to their slow professional organisations. (I mean lets give sony a hand of applause for still having their 10 year old f900 as their main professional hd-camera)

I will end this rant with three short sentences.
It's not the size of the sensor that matters but how you use it that is important.
There's no such thing as a free lunch (or a cheap gourme lunch in this case)
RED....I want to believe but I just can't (but I'm crashing my thumbs and holding my breath. Maybe april will be the month they made contact:)

I think there is a lot to be said that our cameras are quite battle-proven, having already shot 3 feature-length films as the only A-camera, then a B-camera on a large-budget feature film shooting with Vipers as the A-camera, and then another feature film, a documentary, and a episodic production in the works as we speak.

The workflow is lightning fast, comprehensive, and is only going to get better (especially wth more user feedback) . . . again, NAB will expose some new treats we're working very hard to implement with our partners. Realize too that our workflow is the only one in the industry that supports a full color-calibration workflow including device, target, and creative profiles all integrated together to make sure that you're getting WYSIWYG from the set to the theatre (or at least as close as possible given the limitations of the display device and viewing environment to emulate the target).

Quicktime support is being implemented as we speak.

So overall all the pieces of the puzzle are coming together quite nicely, and furthermore, real people are getting real work done *today*, and that's with them figuring this stuff out for themselves like real-people do, i.e., we're not sitting with them on-set holding their hands. They use it, they give us feedback, and we implement that and make it a better system.

To look at the SI-2K series of cameras as a security camera bolted onto a PC is doing the system a disservice. The AltaSens chip is not "security-grade", but is manufactured for the highest demanding clients in the broadcast market. It has a 12-bit A/D converter, over 11-bits of dynamic range, 14-bit internal data pathways, and low-noise output. We're not the only ones using it, as it's also being used by Ikegami in a number of their next-generation broadcast camera designs. AltaSens is a spin-off from Rockwell Scientific, the same company that build the imagers in the Hubble Space Telescope and have done an number of high-grade military and scientific parts in the past. They know how to make top-quality sensors.

So we've basically coupled the digital cinema quality of AltaSens sensors with the flexibility of a IT-based architecture. I can't give you all the details on what we're providing for NAB this year, but suffice to say I think you all will be very pleased compared to what we demonstrated last year and reassure you that we are building a professional camera system, not an expensive toy.

According to HD for Indies, by the time you get everything you would like with the Red, it will cost about $42k. Everything is detailed there and the "extras" are pricey. And I'm not too sure about the workflow. Isn't it proprietary? What if there is a hitch? Cineform seems to work things out if there is a problem.

"According to HD for Indies, by the time you get everything you would like with the Red, it will cost about $42k."

looking at 42k does seem high compared to SI2k at approx 22K? ( not sure what is included) but if one is going to list 42K with no details perhaps we should see what one gets for 42K then perhaps load up a SI and see the prices ??

from HD for indies:
Loaded for bear with Red Rail/Cage, two batteries & charger, EVF & LCD, 2 Red Drives, CF & SATA Flash modules, 2 Red SATA Flash modules but no lenses, it is $32,350. Throw in a Red Zoom when it is available and you're just shy of $42,000

so included for 42k is RED body ($17,500), red rails/cage ( $2700), hi def 720 efv ( 2900) , hi def LCD ( 1700) , 2 red drives 360 gig each ( 900 each) , CF & SATA flash modules ( 500 & 1500) , 2 batts /charger (1700) .... add RED zoom 18-85 f2.8 (9,500) ...

perhaps a better price comparison would be looking at camera body( 17500), 1 batt/charger (1200) , 1 drive (900), LCD (1700) = 21,500 for RED ...

and SI2k = ??

BTW, the other really nice thing that people don't consider about CineForm is that they have a unified codec environment. That means you can ingest from a variety of sources, whether it's' HD-SDI (with real-time 3:2 pulldown), HDV (and it's multitude of variations inluding all the 24P flavors), P2 MXF, and of course RAW, and all these clips will play back natively on the same timeline in real-time with multiple streams and real-time effects. REDCODE, while a nifty idea and I'm sure backed by some great technology, is off in it's own world, basically designed for footage from the RED camera, not for a unified editing environment where a multipicity of clips and codecs can all co-exist together and be edited/imported/exported in real-time. CineForm has been constructed from the ground-up to be a powerful "Intermediate" codec. Editing in one of the REDCODE variations is simply like editing with another camera-native codec, with the stipulation that you can't really mix/match cameras together on the same timeline since each camera has their own native codecs that are not designed to work together. As an intermediate codec, CineForm is made to bridge that gap and provide a faster unified working environment, with the added benefit of being tuned for post-production with high-quality visually lossless results over numerous multi-generational passes.

perhaps a better price comparison would be looking at camera body( 17500), 1 batt/charger (1200) , 1 drive (900), LCD (1700) = 21,500 for RED ... and SI2k = ?

You might have to include the basic rail kit to get that into a comparable shooting configuration with the SI 2K, but yes, there is little point in comparing the cost of a kit with a lens to that of a camera kit without a lens.

However, it's not wise to go out doing serious filming having only bought one battery for your kit. This is like buying any camera, it's the overall cost of the working shooting package that matters.

One piece of RED kit that will work on the SI is the B4 adapter for people wanting to shoot with 2/3" video lenses.

i left the lens out because everybody has their own preference - one prefers a zeiss maybe another canon? i don't know how many batts come with SI2k ??
so let both packages be the same ... include 2 batts ( add 450 to red) , same lens ( PL or B4), also don't forget to include device to record audio for the SI ? ... but maybe the camera's are too different and it's not apples to apples ??? so price comparison doesn't matter - and it does come down to what you really need ( & use) and one could be more/less depending what you buy in TOTAL camera package and for those that need post including post workflow = entry price point will be different for each person/business....

when Jason mentions all these different NATIVE clips in same time line ( p2, mFX, cineform raw, cineform intermediate etc ) what NLE is playing back all those "natively" in RT ( including 10 bit ) ??? ...
unless you know something the gerneral public we don't know all the workflows of RED or what/if redcode can play back native in any/which NLE ?? ... we do know that if one shoots REDcode we can use their product to render the clip to cineform intermediate ( don't know about cineform raw) ...

from the little i know about REDcode it doesn't seem anymore in it's own world then cineforms raw codec ? or for that matter cineform intermediate .. to get to cineform intermediate i believe you have to render from a native codec to cineform intermediate ? so what's the difference between that & if you have a redcode clip and you render to cineform intermediate ?...
i had some film scanned at pixel harvest . it was NOT scanned directly to cineform - it was scanned to another codec/data 1st then rendered out to cineform intermediate ...i do convert HDV/p2 to CF intermediate & CF products are excellent ...

i don't know the fine details on REDcode at NAB we'll know those details- perhaps you know more ? perhaps cineform knows a little more ??

i have use for both camera's so i don't have to choose between them..
i've been waiting to see the final design of the SI2K ? i can use the detachable head on many projects and i want the recording body with it ( vs the mini with laptop) ... been waiting to see the accessory list for SI2K & mini ? hoping to see it ALL at NAB ...

Stop by booth SL7826 . . . we'll definitely have some exciting things to share . . . :)

cineform & SI2k are in my top 10 NAB list ..
looking forward to seeing the LUT's applied to viewing monitor etc ..
will you be there Jason ?
if yes - see you on 16 & 17

Yep, I'll be there . . . should I be looking for the bright Hawaiian shirt? ;)

Yes, if you want to spot Donatello then you should be looking for a bright Hawaiian shirt. After all, he is the Hawaiian Shirt Mogul.

One thing that I will be interested to see when I get a chance to chat with Graeme at NAB will be the workflow from RAW. The graphic on the RED website (which is more a promotional tool than a schematic certainly) seems to show the footage being brought out of RAW before "ingest" into an editing system to be cut...I'm not sure if that is the case or not.

The CineForm RAW footage shot on the SI can have the settings for final process out of RAW altered on the PPro timeline right up until master out...there is no additional steps. Simply bring it in, use the OnSet LUT assigned, or dump it and make a new one, and cut away...change your mind on the LUT 25 times if you want as the adjustment is non-destructive.

I think there is a place for both products certainly, but understanding the workflow associated with each in very clear terms will be the key to making the right choice...

NAB will undoubtedly be interesting. I'll be in the CineForm booth as far as I know. Maybe we'll see some of you.


TimK

As, adding onto what Tim said, the Look file is also operating in a 32-bit float environment at the codec level, so for instance, you can color-correct footage that might have a really radical or contrasty "look", and can manupulate the values that are over 1.0. Same thing with saturation, etc.

So not only can you swap out a .look file, but you can also use the native toolset of the host NLE application to "undo" the "look" of the .look file as well because everything is being processed in 32-bit float, so the .look metadata never clips any data, even if on the screen something appears white or black, or super-saurated . . . if there's there's data underneath because it's not clipped, you have access to it from the host application color-correction toolset.

For the doubters, I'll make your eyes pop out at NAB with some cool stuff in AE surrounding this workflow :)

I'm really looking foreward to side-by side comparisons of SI2k and Red.

The price comparison is only one and the one of least interest. Compared to anything else - these two cameras compete in the same ballpark.

Conceptually, both cameras are of the same origin.

The workflow and resulting images are of much more concern.

I've seen some really nice SI grabs.
I really like the little I've seen from Red, but even though I'm a Red "early adopter", I have no problem admitting that what I've seen from SI is of much bigger diversity and thus more impressing.
... as of now.

I sorta have a hard time understanding the two competitors fanbase need to bash eachother. Really!

They are both paving the way for new workflows and new ways to build cameras. Both base their workflow on wavelet compression.
Both are saving a lot by pushing major costs down the line - from internal processing to the customers computers - which is mostly good, as that is an easily upgradeable part in the setup.

As of now I haven't seen ANY remarks from Red as to how much time you'll spend "developing" the raw data, or if it will in all cases be a needed step.

It will be a major issue, though.

So far SI is a little behind schedule with the 2k, so if both start delivering this spring/summer, they lose some of the advantage they initially had - given that Red won't have to push their deliverydates further.

So basically

These are exciting times!

Good luck to both!

Gunleik

Yes, I'm looking forward to a Red/SI 2K comparison... Now that Red has announced their prices, it would be nice to have a transparent price for SI2K, and a delivery date. The concern is this Cineform licence : it would have been nicer to be able to use the camera without having to buy a licence. For the price of the camera, I mean... By the way, what will be the minimum price to shoot with SI2K ? I know there are previous posts on the subject, but they're old now !

Thanks,

Kristin

So far SI is a little behind schedule with the 2k, so if both start delivering this spring/summer, they lose some of the advantage they initially had - given that Red won't have to push their deliverydates further.
I think it may all come down to this point in the battle for marketshare and mindshare...

As far as the CineForm license goes...this is to Kristin...what other format would you write your file to? You would need to carry a far larger computer than a laptop to store uncompressed (more than replacing any cost reduction from removing the CineForm software) and I don't know of another codec (available for purchase today) that has the combo of image quality and speed, running on a generic, generally available computer CPU that CineForm does...

(Yes, I work with CineForm, and yes, I suppose I'll admit a little bias...but I've looked at a lot of codecs. Canopus HQ has the image quality, but is proprietary, I haven't looked hard enough at Sheer yet, but I'm doing that now...I don't have any experience with encode speed)

...at this point, its a matter of what codec has the most advantageous combination of speed/quality/and file size.

So far SI is a little behind schedule with the 2k, so if both start delivering this spring/summer

BTW, before there's the industry-wide consensus that we've "slipped" in scheduling because of something going horribly wrong, I would like to address the fact that we do have working systems in the field being used by beta-testers on real-world projects who are allowing us to hone the system and make it a much better end-product than it would have been should we have shipped it last fall when we were originally "scheduled".

A headstart for mindshare and marketshare means nothing if you're not putting your best foot forward and the product is not the best it can be. So we're taking our time to-do that, using a number of real-world feature film projects, commercials, documentaries, etc. to get the product to true "production-ready" status. It started with Spoon, but it's grown quite a bit since then, with even more productions happening or about to happen as we speak.

I think at NAB you will be very pleased to see the progress we've made since last year with a much more mature and professional product that has been tested to be production-ready to the best of our ability.

I don't really know if the implication has been that something is going "horribly wrong"...

There are a few of us who have actually used the SI camera, and I do constantly reference this when I compare my perspective on the current status of SI and RED.

...I'm a fan of the SI camera...but I think that the marketing momentum of the RED is undeniable. I appreciate the amount of real-world use the SI camera has, but I would also like to see Silicon Imaging turn up the volume a bit in the marketing area so the world knows.


...my opinion only.

I'm really looking forward to side-by side comparisons of SI2k and Red.Considering that both the SI-2K and RED One camera projects
began life on the web right here at DV Info Net, we're probably
the best possible web site to host such a comparison.

The SI-2K concept grew primarily out of this DV Info Net thread,
once Steve Nordhauser from Silicon Imaging became directly
involved with the discussion in May 2004:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=183170&postcount=62

The RED One concept began its journey on the Internet
when Frederic Haubrich asked me to post this question
on behalf of Jim Jannard back in December 2004:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=35791

It should be a fairly simple process to arrange to have both
cameras in the same place at the same time for side by side
testing, once the production models have started to ship.
We've done this before with multiple cameras, so we'll
definitely keep this idea in mind.

Chris,
as attractive an idea as that sounds I suspect it's a little bit more complex, neither of those are just cameras in the traditional sense, they're complete systems. Both are offering significant differences in the production chain from when the light hits the sensor until the final grade is done.

Yikes! Flash from the past!

Haha, that was such a funny read, I love the people wondering how long it was going to be . . . I bet if you told the guys on the "future RED thread" it would be 2.5 years to shipping they would have immediately dismissed the idea as a fable.

Of course we've taken a long time ourselves . . . and it's good to see people like Obin, Juan, and Wayne remaining as active members of this board.

Yep Chris, you've created a great resource here at DVinfo with a solid community of people and well-moderated boards, and you should give yourself a pat on the back for creating an environment that has helped foster the ideas going into the next generation of digital cinema aquisition.

Come by the booth (SL7826) at NAB and we can talk some more about any bake-off's, reviews, etc. you'd like to organize.

Chris, yes I agree, my concern wasn't really about the Cineform quality but its price. When you put say $13,000 for a camera, you expect to be able to use it without having to buy a necessary software ($1500 right ?). But I'm coming from the prosumer world ! The Sheer codec seems to be good too. It would be nice if Silicon Imaging could set a complete package with a free licence of Cineform, just like Red with their free Redcine.

The samples of the SI website are really great, it has a S16 feeling I really like. Just another suggestion : if there could be more wide shots (to see details in leaves for instance) it would be paradise !

Congrats anyway to the SI team !

Exciting times !

Kristin

Jason,
I'll be at NAB and one of my primary goals is to bend you or someone's ears about the SI-2K. Really need to get a good handle on what we need to build an end to end solution on a greenfields site.
At the moment it seems to me, perhaps wrongly, that there needs to be a document that defines the whole deal. I realise there's many options and a lot comes from 3rd parties however it's all getting a bit hard trying to cost it all out. Being too flexible can work against you unless you have a chart showing all the paths one might go down or better still a recommended set of paths with rough costings.
Even where to post to get information on your offering seems a bit fragmented.

Looking forward to seeing you there :)

As the new guy to this block, I have a few questions. I think a comparison of the Red and SI cameras would be interesting but since the complete package of SI is under $20k and the Red (as I read the description on HD for Indies) is about $42k, shouldn't we expect the Red to be better?

Since I can see myself stretching to drop $20k, I can't see myself as a prospective Red customer at this time. And since I spent 25 years as a civil trial lawyer before getting SO interested in video production I have always been impressed by evidence. Last year before NAB I heard for 3 mos about how big the Red exhibit was going to be - Red advertised it heavily. When I got there I saw a tent and a sign "under development."

The week before NAB I see an announcement that SI has developed a working camera and it will be at the show, that it shot RAW with Cineform and I was impressed - even more so when I saw it at the convention.

It was announced that both cameras would be about $17,500. Now we find that to have batteries, etc, in decent configuration Red will run over twice that.

Now I too think it wonderful that these companies are both working to give us something new and useful. I'm also happy to have both companies pushing the envelope. I am not condeming anyone's approach but I cannot help but recall the judge's instruction when the case went to the jury, "You are the sole judges of the credibility of the witnesses and the weight to be given their testimony." I cannot help but have some opinions in that regard from my experience. That could change but I'd need fresh evidence.

please show us where RED is over 2x $$ SI camera .. i guess i could price it 4x if i include master primes on the RED and fuji screw mt lens for SI ?.. i can't find the price list for SI 2k & accessories ? so i don't know the price ..
for under 20k are you talking the mini ?

how about showing this evidence ? prices for same package for both camera's ..
body, same # batts, LCD , i believe the SI needs audio capture device ... and if you wish add on comparable lens or same lens ...if you want to compare apple to apple go 2k to 2k camera's ......or compare apple to oranges 2K to 4k but please list how you are comparing and what items you are including.

Balanced L/R line input and output audio is included in the base SI-2K camera.