Greetings! I just posted an official hello in the Neighborhood thread, but I wanted to dive right in here with the big fish...

I'm contemplating a JVC HD200. I first shot on 3/4 ENG style, so I'm fairly comfortable with ENG style cameras, but I have been shooting on an XL-1s for the last 5/6 years. I've gotten some decent stuff with it (I think).

I need some feedback on two things, and would love it if you guys could pitch in and set me straight.

One: While my site isn't officially turned on at the moment (new update waiting in the wings) I would love some comments and feedback regarding these 3 short "trailers." They are located here (http://www.cabinone.com/dictator/index.php?facetoface) (click "View Trailers."

Two: I'm worried I won't be able to shoot with this camera! I mean, I can step up and gleefully lose the Canon's view finder (resolution? what resolution!?). I will embrace the on the shoulder (ENG) style with a glad heart. I can't wait to not wrap headphones around me and my gear. And I can't wait to use a $400 battery (ha-ha). But...and seriously - I'm afraid my video will suddenly be out-of-focus and crazy bad compared to how "simple" I've been able to acquire "decent" video in the past....

Am I nutz? Should I just stick to the A1/H1 and pretend I'm a pro? :-) I really hate 2 things about the Canon, and just deal with a 3rd. One - you can't zoom in and focus as the same time...there's this weird lens hiccup that happens on a zoom for me - w/ multiple lenses (might not be describing it right). Two - the view finder is a joke. And the Third is just how it hurts to hold the bloody thing out in front of me...(b/c there's no really shoulder mount). Oh, alright, fourth: hate the hack (MA200) to get XLR audio in. Fifth, I don't care for the incredibly noisy camera sounds on mic (even with the system isolator, etc) (hello? I can HEAR the zoom!?).

Anyway - it's great to be here - I don't feel so alone anymore...and I'm grateful for any/all who have a few moments to spare on me...

Thanks,

Jeff

----
Jeffrey Butler
Cabin One Productions
www.cabinone.com

and i can't even figure out how to post a new thread, help me out? eh?

help me out? eh?

A fellow Tourist! Remember to check the "remember me" button when you log in (right?) That will keep things from timing out...the basics are, create or reply. Clicking Quote will copy the current post, after which you can trim it down...

Here's a link to the manual (http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/).

Jeff

Well about all I can say is trust your instincts.
If you're tire of the breadloaf cameras and want to step up and are willing to WORK at it a bit you can get very used to the camera very quickly. That means spending time going thru the manual, time spent just playing with the camera, trying different things looking at the tape on your editing machine, listening to the audio trying different settings, getting to know where the controls are without looking so you can think about composition and lighting and exposure not where the controls are. Learn how to back focus correctly, how to use something other than automatic features that are offered on many if not most cams today and be willing to make mistakes and learn from them. I have not tried the 200 but have tried the 100 when it first came out and it is a great camera. It was easy for me but I was brought up in the business on full size cameras, still use them today even though I have a VX1000 and a PD150 (had 2 at one time).
You have to choose which camera will work best for you-as sexy as the JVC200 is maybe it's not what will do the best job for you. As for "pretending to be a pro" it has absolutely nothing to do with the gear you use (although it can help) it's a state of mind and what your minds eye sees (among other things)
I know I said to get what you feel is best for the work you plan on doing but it sounds to me like you have a JVC-HD200 in your future :-)
Welcome to the best video forum on the net.

Don

If you're tire of the breadloaf cameras...
LOL! I am. I really, really am.

...willing to WORK at it a bit you can get very used to the camera very quickly....
Now that's good news. I suspected as much. I'm confident (and willing), just a bit edgy about it.

...the JVC200 is maybe it's not what will do the best job for you.
It might not be. One of the things about the XL-1s was that at times, it was just too big. But my guess is that a Sony HC-3 palmcorder or the like will fill out the "interior car footage" for a reality/doc.

As for "pretending to be a pro" it has absolutely nothing to do with the gear you use (although it can help)...
Yeah, I meant that more like...ah, I dunno what I meant. Perhaps play pro with a breadloaf...but seriously, you're right - breadloaf or CineAlta...both can suck.

Welcome to the best video forum on the net.

I am quickly reaching that that conclusion...

Jeff

[QUOTE=Jeffrey Butler]. And I can't wait to use a $400 battery (ha-ha). But...and seriously - I'm afraid my video will suddenly be out-of-focus and crazy bad compared to how "simple" I've been able to acquire "decent" video in the past....

I have had an XL1s for 3 years and the one thing you will really love with the JVC is the manual lens. Focus and it stays focussed. The vision is a huge step up from the Canons as well and I shoot for TV commercials so that is important for me. I do miss the image stabalization though. The Canon was great for that plus the JVC shoots 16.9.

I do miss the image stabalization though. The Canon was great for that plus the JVC shoots 16.9.

Yeah, I realized that wasn't there either not long ago. I think I'm horrified. Comparing focus and optical stabilization, I can live with manual focus, but dang - I don't know what I'm going to do without IS...! LOL. Is my shoulder THAT much better? *gack.

I can think of 20 shots off the top of my head that would have been (much more) useless w/o Canon's IS. I suppose if that's the worst, I can deal with it. *sigh...

Yeah, I realized that wasn't there either not long ago. I think I'm horrified. Comparing focus and optical stabilization, I can live with manual focus, but dang - I don't know what I'm going to do without IS...! LOL. Is my shoulder THAT much better? *gack.

I can think of 20 shots off the top of my head that would have been (much more) useless w/o Canon's IS. I suppose if that's the worst, I can deal with it. *sigh...


Sorry Jeff, but you will forget about IS and as far as the manual focus, you will love it. Imagine.... no more hunting from the Canon lens... In most cases you wont miss the IS either as the camera is balanced quite well on the shoulder and I have the extra battery pack to add the weight. I use a tripod anyway so that doesnt matter. I used to use the IS when shooting from a moving car etc and that is the only place I miss it.

Sorry Jeff, but you will forget about IS and as far as the manual focus, you will love it. ... I use a tripod anyway so that doesnt matter. I used to use the IS when shooting from a moving car etc and that is the only place I miss it.
I do find myself hanging out of some strange places...usually moving. I shoot most of my stuff on the go and outside...so while I'm very close to going with it, I can't help but feel the nag that I could get 2 A1's for the price of 1 HD200. But I bet after a few months, if I can't reconcile a few things someone here would be happy to take it off my hand$. =)

I'm hoping the "pro" requirements this camera puts on me, actually (if properly dealt with) will make me a better shooter.

Alright I'll say it Jeffrey, I really like your videos. And I also like the way you present them. Nice work.

You'll learn a lot here. And that's good, because lord knows if you're about to get into HD, there's a lot to learn. In fact looking back at my move from an XL2 to this HD200, I'm always reminded of the day I decided to poke a bee hive with a stick when I was a kid. What a mess that was at first, but in the end, there was the honey.

And this 200 is just as sweet. You'll do without IS and auto focus. No worries.

Good luck

I
I'm hoping the "pro" requirements this camera puts on me, actually (if properly dealt with) will make me a better shooter.


Jeffrey,
You do need to understand that you will need to learn how to use a camera like this. If you just want to run and gun then it will be tough for you. I am finding the whole HDV thing too difficult at the moment as it is a huge step up. I shoot for a living and its important that I learn how to get the footage i want. You will have to work at it. If it does worry you then you may be better off with an auto camera.

You do need to understand that you will need to learn how to use a camera like this
I do. I really do - but this is what's baking my brain at the moment. It's just an unknown. I know I could pick up the Canon H1 and go shoot an event w/o screwing it up. I don't have that confidence with the JVC. I could do it...it's just there really is no option to toss the lens on auto.... =) Kinda like driving a stick instead of automatic....it would be cool to have a car that was both.

...I'm always reminded of the day I decided to poke a bee hive with a stick when I was a kid. What a mess that was at first, but in the end, there was the honey.

And this 200 is just as sweet. You'll do without IS and auto focus. No worries.

Eric - thanks for the words - I love the analogy. You make me feel better about poking the bees...I know I'm not allergic to bee stings, so pressing on (back) into the manual world won't kill me. It may hurt a few times, but I'm so over the sloppy Canon lens and viewfinder, that I'm up for a little buzzing!

Thanks - I really appreciate the feedback.

Jeff

..it's just there really is no option to toss the lens on auto.... =) Kinda like driving a stick instead of automatic....it would be cool to have a car that was both.

You miss the point. With the JVC, you focus and forget about the hunting that the Canon delivers. I can not use my Canon at all because of the lack of faith i have in it keeping focus. The auto focus is so slow too. Try a manual lense camera and see!

I've actually shot most of what I've got on manual focus - but it's the auto quick-mash button that really helps. I guess I never made that point...no, I hate autofocus - wouldn't ever consider leaving it on during a shoot (well, almost never) - but man, mashing that quick-auto button on the side of the lens - I know (at this moment) that I'll miss that...

- but man, mashing that quick-auto button on the side of the lens - I know (at this moment) that I'll miss that...


You wont, you know. You will find you can focus a lot faster and true with the manual lens on the JVC than the auto will work on the Canon. Once again, try a manual lens and see. Even on manual, it is very difficult to focus the Canon and it hunts all the time.

You wont, you know. You will find you can focus a lot faster and true with the manual lens on the JVC than the auto will work on the Canon. Once again, try a manual lens and see. Even on manual, it is very difficult to focus the Canon and it hunts all the time.

I completely agree. The servo-only lens on the XL was lethargic and nearly impossible to 'feel'. With a manual, and experience, you will get pretty snappy with focus from instinctual mental rangefinding. In other words, you'll eventually learn to focus without visual aid. Autofocus is great, but not when you cannot switch to true manual.

As for IS, it's not always beneficial and can really screw up a non-tripod shot by inducing unnatural frame movements. When it becomes cheaper and easier, and finely adjustable, then I'll take a look at it.

Don't forget that the HD has focus assist which works great. The color levels are very different between the HD and XL series, so you'll probably want to make some adjustments on the HD depending on what you shoot. I have both camera's (XL1), and shoot mostly outdoors & scenics, but plan to step into 60p for sports. Once you get use to the JVC, it's easier to use than you might think. If you're concerned about stabilization like I am, buy Apple's Shake for motion smoothing. It's easy to use and the quality is amazing. What sort of projects do you plan to do?

Jeffrey,

I moved from the xl1s to the hd100 just this month so I know where your coming from. I liked the H1 but didn't have the budget so I was looking at the A1. But the more I looked the more I really hated to go back to a bread loaf camera as my main unit (fine for a second or third mind you). Don Bloom called one day and there was a good price on a HD100 here in the classifieds. I went ahead and got the 100.

I can tell you this right now, you won't regret making the move over. The jvc is so much more balanced than the xl series. It's still light compared to a full 2/3" camera, but with some batteries and a wireless on the back it helps out. You won't miss the os or the push to focus. Once you start shooting with a true eng camera like this your left hand is always on the focus ring and never leaves it and the focus is much more precise than the canon. You can now zoom and focus at the same time. And people complain about the viewfinder but it's many times better than the xl1s viewfinder.

It will take some time to learn the in's and out's of the camera's image control, but as far as picking up the camera and shooting with it you'll have that down in no time. It's really a great shooters rig. That means that once you get into it and start shooting, you don't even think about what your doing. Your attention is on your shot, where it should be, not on what your camera is doing or how you can make the camera work.

Also, I've always preferred canons image tone to other brands. The jvc is very customizable and I've been able to work the image to something that's pretty close to a canon look. And this camera has much better image latitude than the xl1s.

Hope you make the move over.

Ben

HI,

Newbie here with maybe some dumb questions. I hope you don't end up rolling your eyes too much. I have a intro on the "in your neighborhood"
thread.

I would like to get the GYHD 200 but because of lack of sufficient funds I might have to settle for The HD110. I want to get into independent film making.

In terms for transferring to film will 1080p produce a better print than 720p?
I know the JVC models I mentioned don't record in 1080p but Will this be an issue in terms of resolution?

Is the need for a diffusion filter greater for HD shooting?
- Or is it about the same?

I have a flat panel monitor that can display at a res of 1280/1024 at 32
resolution (maxed), Is this a usable monitor for editing HUD footage?
(assuming I use the HUD 200 or HUD 110 )

Any other info you can throw my way would be appreciated?

Ben - thanks. Good to hear. I am heading that way for sure. I'm curious, though - you mentioned you didn't have the budget for the H1. Let's pretend I do for the moment...even still, I don't think the issues we're kinda complaining about here (lens/view finder; general loaf) are addressed with the H1.

Just for the record - if you could have afforded it, would you have gotten the H1 instead of the JVC? I know the 200u isn't that much cheaper...the 110 is down b/c of the 200's, but I'm at the point where I just don't want more of the same...even with the love I've got the for XL-1...I'm ready for a "pro" camera...or at least the best "'pro' I can go."

Jeffrey,

It's hard to say what I would have done if I had had the money for either camera. I had used an H1 before buying a camera but not the jvc. Now that I have a jvc and have used both I would say the jvc is the better shooters camera.

The H1 has a sharper image than the jvc with a stock lens. It shoots 1080i which is the most common format. That also means you can buy a cheap camcorder to use as a tape deck. It's also familiar to you from the xl1s. Technically I think it's the better camera. But the H1 still has no true manual hd lens, still uses servo motors on the lens, and has the same form as the xl1.

The jvc on the other hand shoots 720p so there's no cheap camcorder to go with it. For normal eng or corporate I doubt that most people find anything wrong with the stock lens. I've used a lot of lenses and the jvc lens works. Not the best but it works.

When I was looking at cameras I tried to consider all the aspects. For me it came down to which camera is the best camera to shoot with.

When I shoot with the xl series I feel like I'm using a great prosumer camera. Great picture, but plastic body and a plastic feel to it. When I shoot with the jvc I feel like I'm using a broadcast camera. Solid build, on camera switches for all major camera functions, and a good balance.

Now that I have the jvc I would say that no doubt this was the best path for me to take. This is the best camera under 10K for shooting. The camera makes no compromise when it comes to acquiring the footage. Every part of the camera feels solid, not soft, and it's the best tool for capturing material. I've also found that mixing 720 and 1080 really isn't an issue. I'm using vegas so the formats go together on the timeline without a hitch.

The H1 has the best numbers on paper, but in the real world the jvc is the best shooters camera. If I had a chance to change this camera with an H1 at no cost I would keep this camera.

Hope that helps.

Ben

The H1 has the best numbers on paper, but in the real world the jvc is the best shooters camera. If I had a chance to change this camera with an H1 at no cost I would keep this camera.

Hope that helps.
Ben, that's just the kinda of stuff I need to hear, particularly the vein of "when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers" =)

I'm looking forward to having more than one camera - but until then - I think my confidence level is much higher about the JVC; i.e. high enough to purchase.

I have a dinky palm-corder HC-3 (which shoots nice HDV video, btw), so when space is a consideration or more adventure style camera work is needed (the kind where you have to hang on to something else as much as the camera) then I've got some secondary options.

Thanks for your time...really.

Jeff