I'm currently a DSR-570 user and have a firestore which has sped up my workflow a lot in the past. Now seriously considering a F350 and Matrox Axio LE (maybe that'll be another thread though!).

For video case study type projects, one of the ways we work with a number of clients is to burn the raw interview footage to real time DVD recorder with burnt in T/C (Pioneer) and send this to the client. They review and select IV clips. We then add the GV's and edit a finished programme.

I was very excited at the prospect of possibly using proxy footage as a quick way for them to select these types of clips and basically log them, sending me the XML (IIRC?) file back to perform the edit.

I downloaded the viewer software from Sony, but not having an XDCAM camera (yet), it was a troublesome process. I think it installs the drivers etc for the camera? I wasn't able to check it out as I don't have any MXF clips. Anyone know where I can get some short samples from?

Now, my clients are normally VERY low tech users and couldn't cope with the app as it stands (I think). Anyone using a similar workflow to this - or alternatively, are there any apps out there that will do this with a VERY user friendly interface and allow simple/basic clip logging?

Thanks,

Paul.

I'm currently a DSR-570 user and have a firestore which has sped up my workflow a lot in the past. Now seriously considering a F350 and Matrox Axio LE (maybe that'll be another thread though!).

For video case study type projects, one of the ways we work with a number of clients is to burn the raw interview footage to real time DVD recorder with burnt in T/C (Pioneer) and send this to the client. They review and select IV clips. We then add the GV's and edit a finished programme.

I was very excited at the prospect of possibly using proxy footage as a quick way for them to select these types of clips and basically log them, sending me the XML (IIRC?) file back to perform the edit.

I downloaded the viewer software from Sony, but not having an XDCAM camera (yet), it was a troublesome process. I think it installs the drivers etc for the camera? I wasn't able to check it out as I don't have any MXF clips. Anyone know where I can get some short samples from?

Now, my clients are normally VERY low tech users and couldn't cope with the app as it stands (I think). Anyone using a similar workflow to this - or alternatively, are there any apps out there that will do this with a VERY user friendly interface and allow simple/basic clip logging?

Thanks,

Paul.

Hey Paul....

I posted this thread a few days ago, you should check it out:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=85352

We've been wrangling with XDCAM workflow for a while now. On paper XDCAM seems to have endless possibilities, but sadly, Sony's tools for implementing these possibilities have been pretty lame.

The PC based PDZ Browser is pretty awful. I'm quite certain the people who coded the software and the guys who sell it have never worked in a post environment that was larger than 10 people. I'm sure some will read that as being harsh, but it is unintuitive, unfriendly and well...just sucks. I've yet to speak to more than two people who've used the software, and those who have-wanted to throw the thing through the window.

Sony's focus right now seems to be very camera-centric and not post production centric.

I'm a little confused by your post though..specifically how you intend create proxies without a deck or camera....or what you are finding fault with when you aren't even using the deck. Correct me if I'm wrong though...I don't get it.

What we do here is pretty simple. We have about 7 XDCAM decks in the facility. One is strapped to an "ingest" station. When a cameraman gets back from a shoot, they mount the disk on the computer's desktop and simply drag and drop the SUB folder from the disk onto the corresponding producer's portable firelite drive.

The producer then plugs the firelite drive into their windows based machine wich has PDZ Viewer on it. They can then view the proxies which have matching code through the viewer and do an old fashon log via pen and paper.

You CAN export proxies via the Apple XDCAM Transfer software into Quicktimes, but they WILL NOT have accurate code (probably rendering it useless)

You CAN export proxies via the Apple XDCAM Transfer software into Quicktimes, but they WILL NOT have accurate code (probably rendering it useless)

What's inaccurate about those proxy exports? In my playing around, they seemed to be fine.

why not taking sony vegas as a viewer / editor?

Its fast, the integrated XDCAM viewer copies all Proxy files with nice preview, you´ll find markers in the proxies etc etc.

I just came back from the Sony Roadshow in germany showing EXCACTLY these workflows using either PDZ software , Final Cut Pro, AVID, EDIUS or SONY VEGAS...

Download the Vegas trial, enable "XDCAM EXPLORER" in preferences, restart vegas and then you can open XDCAM disks (or harddrive copies of it).

If anyone like, I´ll post a "mini" XDCAM HD file on my server for playing around with Vegas (or any other XDCAM compatible software)

Uli

What's inaccurate about those proxy exports? In my playing around, they seemed to be fine.


Nate..

I mentioned that the the code is innaccurate. But by all means, if you have shot footage and have made QT's (in XDCAM Transfer) with accurate TC, A.) let me know and B.) tell me how! Seriously...that's not a challenge, that's me BEGGING. That would solve a million problems we are having now.

As far as I can tell, the timecode track on the proxy exports is accurate. The only real problem I could find is that there's no batch export for them, you have to create them one-by-one.

I just shot 4 days of pre-cache footage though, and the proxies start 4 frames later, and on my test clips, end one frame shorter. I'm not sure how this would be a problem in most situations though. but number for number, frame-for-frame each TC # references the same frame in my tests I just did to make sure I wasn't telling you lies.

As far as I can tell, the timecode track on the proxy exports is accurate. The only real problem I could find is that there's no batch export for them, you have to create them one-by-one.

I just shot 4 days of pre-cache footage though, and the proxies start 4 frames later, and on my test clips, end one frame shorter. I'm not sure how this would be a problem in most situations though. but number for number, frame-for-frame each TC # references the same frame in my tests I just did to make sure I wasn't telling you lies.

Wow..I really don't get this.

Tell me what I'm missing here, because I'd be beyond happy with even 100 frames of discrepancy.

-Cameraman shoots and turns over disc

-Drop disc into my PDW30 deck and launch XDCAM Transfer..

-Highlight a clip and go "CLIP" > "EXPORT PROXY MOVIE TO FILE"

This creates a QT at the destination of your choosing, but as far as I can see, no matter what clip I select, the QT's TC always starts @ 00:00:00:00. It's just a counter.

(Also, as an absolute side note...even though this TC business doesn't work for me, the way to batch export would be to highlight everything and hit IMPORT without opening FCP. Like Greg mentioned in a previous post, it will send QT's to the destination folder you have selected in prefs.)

but as far as I can see, no matter what clip I select, the QT's TC always starts @ 00:00:00:00. It's just a counter.


Right. THAT counter is inaccurate...it's just a simple counter. But in the file is a timecode track that's accurate, you just need a good reader. If you disable the extra audio tracks in the file, FCP will play it and display the timecode. You can make an Automator script to batch those files and make them playable in FCP.

I imagine there's another program out there (maybe CatDV?) that will read that timecode track correctly, but I don't know what it would be.

Right. THAT counter is inaccurate...it's just a simple counter. But in the file is a timecode track that's accurate, you just need a good reader. If you disable the extra audio tracks in the file, FCP will play it and display the timecode. You can make an Automator script to batch those files and make them playable in FCP.

I imagine there's another program out there (maybe CatDV?) that will read that timecode track correctly, but I don't know what it would be.

Ahhh..ok...

We're onto something now. I will try some other media players and see what happens. Thanks Nate. I'll keep you posted.

I'm a little confused by your post though..specifically how you intend create proxies without a deck or camera....or what you are finding fault with when you aren't even using the deck. Correct me if I'm wrong though...I don't get it.

Thanks Harley,

I don't currently have an XDCAM camera - but as mentioned am seriously considering getting the F350 quite soon - hence the questions re workflow and whether what I'd want to do will work or not.

why not taking sony vegas as a viewer / editor?

Its fast, the integrated XDCAM viewer copies all Proxy files with nice preview, you´ll find markers in the proxies etc etc.

If anyone like, I´ll post a "mini" XDCAM HD file on my server for playing around with Vegas (or any other XDCAM compatible software)

Uli

Thanks Uli - would be VERY interested to get a sample file if you can let me know the details...

Re Vegas - yes could do, BUT it would be far too complex for a LOW tech user to use. Currently many of my clients review a DVD with burnt in T/C and log to an Excel spreadsheet that I've created - works well but takes time to produce and send the DVD etc.

If I had a REALLY SIMPLE to use app, that can be quickly installed on a PC and will read the proxy files I'd share with them via FTP/Web download, that'd be fantastic!

On a related note, are the MXF and proxy files created by the camera fully compatible with other applications i.e. are there any other freeware/shareware/cheap logging progs out there?

XD HD DISK :

I´ll be at the roadshow coming tuesday presenting Vegas and XDCAM HD.

I am going to shoot one or two "super short" sequences and upload the whole disk end of the week - so you can have a try how it works.

(try to remember to do it 60Hz... I´m in PAL Land)

ULi

XD HD DISK :

(try to remember to do it 60Hz... I´m in PAL Land)

ULi

Great - thanks.

I'm PAL too though (UK) - so 50Hz would be fantastic :)

Cheers,

Paul.

oh - I didnt know - I´ll stay with 50Hz then.

The last XDCAM HD event is in Hamburg - come over , if you like?

ULI

Thanks Uli,

When are the events? Do you have any info you can point me to?

I'd love to - but work is very hectic at the moment - depends on dates etc.

Thanks :)

http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/ShowContent.action?contentId=1167924783539

Its a "whole day" event - there is a stage with repeating "shows" with a whole XDCAM HD workflow - e.g. a kamera crew "in Alaska", a Studio somewhere else etc etc. We show how to work with XDCAM HD even thru the internet (transfering proxies and/or HD content, exchanging metadata etc.).

In a second part of each location ALL broadcast products rg. HD are shown (HDCAM SR, HDCAM, XDCAM HD, HDV , CRT and TFT Displays, Recorders).

There is an interoperability area showing the workflow with Apple Final Cut Pro, Avid Composer, Edius4 and of course SONY VEGAS 7.0

The event is free to anybody.

Uli

Thanks Uli,

Not sure I can make it - but would be good to if I could.

I look forward to the sample files :)

Oh, any chance you could also include a few short fast/slow motion shots too? Would be interested to see the results as I've not seen this yet.

Many thanks,

Paul.

Hi Uli,

Did you get a chance to create those MXF files? I'd love to get hold of a couple to experiment with :)

Thanks.

Hi ,

yes , I did - though i am not a PRO cameraman... ;-)

I´ve got some clips as

DVCAM 50i
DVCAM 25p
HD (35mbit/s) 50i

Since each disk file is ~200-300mb big, I dont want to upload everything - what are you interested most?

ULI

There will be other vendors that will be offering XDCAM logging features. Take a look @ Imagine Products whose current offering is for the P2 HDLog

Thanks Uli,

Most interested in:

DVCAM 50i
and
HD (35mbit/s) 50i

Although if you did have say very short clips of each (size permitting), that would be fantastic. Proxy files and all would be cool - so I can view the footage in the Sony app and test it out. Is that possible? Not sure what you need to copy to the HDD to open it this way?

Did you get any over/under cranked footage?

Saying that - beggars can't be choosers and I'd be grateful for anything you have :)

Many thanks,

Paul.

There will be other vendors that will be offering XDCAM logging features. Take a look @ Imagine Products whose current offering is for the P2 HDLog

Their web site leaves a lot to be desired ;)

Have you heard anything specific about an MXF/proxy Windows based logger?

OK, I´ll upload DVCAM 50i first.

Unfortunately PDZ1 software does NOT allow opening folders on the harddrive (e.g. copying the whole XD HD Disc on the harddrive) - it always asks for a networked deck or iLink Connection...

Vegas works well with HARDDRIVE copies, dont know about FCP - just have a try.

I´ll post the link later.

uploading...
___________-

200mb @14kbit/s ...this takes some time.

Anybody who is interested, please send PN or email for the link.

Thanks

ULI

The file is up.

Hi Uli - can you send me the link please:

dvinfo at siliconpixel dot com

Thanks.

Thanks Uli - had a play and files are good. Vegas plays nicely with them from HHD as you mentioned. PDZ software doesn't but the viewer reads the proxy files OK. I use Premiere though - so I guess I should have a look at the (buggy?) Main Concept plugin. I'd like to go down the Matrox Axio route eventually but not sure what import/workflow options it offers for MXF files yet (I know it supports them but not how it works with the XDCAM cameras etc).

Any chance of an HD sample???

Thanks,

Paul.

Hi,

yes I can post it Monday... stay tuned.

uli

Thanks Uli, that's very good of you :)

For AVID users, the next version to be available at the end of march will offer tremendous and unified XDCAM & XDCAM HD support accross all products. Cannot tell you more for now but anyone who stuck to AVID will be happily surprised.

Thierry.

Thierry,
I do hope that Avid provides support for all XDCAM versions across its products. I am waiting to see what actually happens with each "version" of Avid's software however, since we have been promised support before, only to realize that it was limited support in Xpress Pro and unfinished for Media Composer.

It would be appropriate for Avid to at least provide proxy support for XDCAM in the Xpress line since they offer the product as an offline solution. It is all speculation anyway until the official product is released and Avid decides what support they will allow in each version and what to lock out.