Today's Canon seminar at Birns and Sawyer featured the venerable XLH1 and A1 front and center, but a little honey of a newcomer quietly stole the show from off in the wings--one of the two rumored working HV20's in the U.S. Sadly, the breakout cable for component out was nowhere to be found so we didn't get to see the image on the 30" plasma that displayed the A1's excellent picture instead, but having an opportunity to handle the HV20 was worth the price of admission.

My first thought is that it is amazingly light. I think the horizontal form factor might lead one to think that it will have a tad more heft from its appearance, but it feels like a feather, and the right hand wraps comfortably around the body lending a nearly covert appearance to the meld of man and machine. It's light enough that the left hand is a bit confused what to do exactly--you can steady the camera by placing a few fingers on the LCD screen, but the camera is not big enough to require a lift from below. I think it would take a bit more experimentation to figure out the optimal hand position.

I'm not an immediate fan of the zoom rocker, unfortunately. It has been downsized to the same scale as the camera which makes it rather touchy to operate--the throw from one side to the other is minute. I'm sure with practice this would improve but it's not what I would call an intuitive interface. There is a set of zoom controls just under the screen which can be easily operated by the left hand, but this is a fixed speed zoom compared to the variable offered on the body.

Likewise, the teeny focus roller on the left side is not all that easy to use; a long rack (from close focus to background) would require so many go-rounds because of the short rotation of the control that it's all but impractical. However the autofocus is quite snappy and probably the way to work with this camera under most handheld circumstances.

Bear in mind that these are first impressions; it's entirely possible that I might have become adept at both of these mechanisms had I been able to spend more time playing with them.

I walked around a little bit and it seems like with about 15 minutes of practice, most shooters could get comfy enough with the feel to deliver good looking handheld footage. Between the optical stabilization and the light body, using an elbows-tucked in approach should deliver solid images without the fatigue typical of the larger handheld but non-shoulder mounted cameras like its big brothers, the HVX etc.

At a certain point I realized that I had forgotten that this camera delivers 1080 HD images, which was a bit stunning. If only we could have watched some of this played back (but of course the picture will be the same as the HV10), this may have hit home further.

I didn't have too much time to play around with the various shooting modes; those familiar with Canon's menus will adjust pretty quickly as the familiar icons pop up on the screen.

I think this camera will really kick ass in its class, and it's an astonishing feature set for the money. Looking forward to getting one!

I think this qualifies as the first U.S. user report... well done, Charles!

Did you try out the Cinema (24p) mode?

Yes indeed, but on the little LCD it's not all that easy to judge the motion signature, and certainly not the color matrix etc. It really is a shame we didn't have the proper cable to connect to a monitor.

Yes indeed, but on the little LCD it's not all that easy to judge the motion signature, and certainly not the color matrix etc. It really is a shame we didn't have the proper cable to connect to a monitor.
Fine...I hated myself all weekend because of this.

Thanks for the report Charles!
Have you used the HD10? I'm wondering what the physical size difference is between them, is the HD20 more compact or about the same?

Fine...I hated myself all weekend because of this.

Oh Jim, don't be a hater!

The way I figured it, it made for more of a "tease"...more to look forward to when the camera comes out. I've seen a bit of HD10 footage so I have a sense of what to expect but it was definitely a curiousity what it would have looked like in comparison to the A1 image on both monitors all morning!

Thanks for the report Charles!
Have you used the HD10? I'm wondering what the physical size difference is between them, is the HD20 more compact or about the same?

Different--I think it might feel less compact in some ways, in that the HV10 is more "pocketable" i.e. skinny. I've had a vertical style DV camera (Sony PC3) for years and I was never too fond of the hand position that it forced one into; the HV20 feels more natural.

Fine...I hated myself all weekend because of this.

I didn't get the impression that this was your fault.

I didn't get the impression that this was your fault.
It was the thespian in me talking.........

as a pro, do you feel this cam has potential to capture pro-LIKE footages? obviously it's NOT a pro-cam, but it can retain a good chunk of the resolutions of pro-cams =D.

Thanks for the report Charles. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these!!! It will go with me everywhere!

Mike

as a pro, do you feel this cam has potential to capture pro-LIKE footages? obviously it's NOT a pro-cam, but it can retain a good chunk of the resolutions of pro-cams =D.


The HV10 packs a mighty punch and does indeed capture images that rival professional camcorders. It isn't a "pro" cam, but retains most functionality and will resolve enough detail to complement any HDV camcorder.

True enough.

I think the old lines are blurring with every product launch. It used to be that you could simply judge a camera's abilities by size alone; anything less than a full-size Betacam-type body (i.e. 2/3") was going to deliver "amateur" images. That mentality is long gone. Now it's the "mini-handheld" size like the HV10/20 that are kicking it up a notch. As I hear folks around the internet buzzing about capturing out via HDMI and putting 35mm lens adaptors on the HV20, it's hard to imagine what is coming next.

To me the major functional issue with a camera this size comes in working the optical side of things; as I described above, zooming and focusing is a whole different animal than a manual-type lens. But of course this camera isn't really aimed at the same group of users, so this is to be expected. You can easily tame the handheld form factor by using a shoulder mount or handheld stabilizer, but without a LANC port there's not much you can do to expand out the zoom and focus control.

I think it would be entirely possible to shoot a short film with the HV20 and given the right techniques (composition, camera movement, lighting, all the usual stuff) end up with results that would have no-one guessing that it sprang forth from a camera that size. I'm almost tempted to try it...what it comes down to is if one is really committed to making projects that count, perhaps the additional investment into an A1 can be justified over a period of time. As Jim was pointing out on Saturday, the current pricing that Canon has set up for these cameras is really a steal.

............. As Jim was pointing out on Saturday, the current pricing that Canon has set up for these cameras is really a steal.


Please please don't tell Canon that! :)

Mike

At first glance, the HV20 form factor reminds me of the Sony HC3. They are similar in design, though the Canon adds 24p, cinematic colors, and a mic input to the equation.

One nice upside of this sort of camera is the low profile. It's ultra portable and can go places a larger camera either can't, or can't without attracting a lot of unwanted attention.

The HV20 looks like a godsend for documentary shooters, especially if we can add a high quality mic via the adapter.

One point in favor of those wanting to play around is that the price is so low. This is a camera that those who like to tinker and take them apart can do just that without risking much over $1,000.

Zoom and focus switches, are just switches! Who says you can't open one up and put a simple connector and use a remote switch????? You know that is gonna happen. I may even try it.

Mike

One point in favor of those wanting to play around is that the price is so low. This is a camera that those who like to tinker and take them apart can do just that without risking much over $1,000.

Zoom and focus switches, are just switches! Who says you can't open one up and put a simple connector and use a remote switch????? You know that is gonna happen. I may even try it.

Mike

I second that Mike. I think someone is going to gut the hv20 and put it's parts into a different form factor with some type of hdmi easy setup. Maybe add a 7" monitor,hdmi capture, and battery power maybe with a modified shuttle PC. All you need is carbon fiber and fiberglass.

Hi,
did you save some footage to tape and do you have access
to a PC wih Firewire, so you can download some footage and
post some raw m2t clips ?

I really would like to see the picture quality of the HV20.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.

...and here is a pic of the HV20 from Saturday morning with the Canon mic on board.
thanks to Jim and greg for a great morning!

Cheers
Paul

Thanks for the report! It's fascinating.

...and here is a pic of the HV20 from Saturday morning with the Canon mic on board.
thanks to Jim and greg for a great morning!

Cheers
Paul

Paul

Thanks for posting that pic.

That little camera/mike combo looks GREAT!

JohnG

To bad they didn't make it black like the A1 sitting there next to it. How is that canon mic?

Hi Charles!

Thanks very much for your report! It is much appreciated.

One question: Is it possible to control exposure on-the-fly? Can you use the focus dial for this? Is there any other way to do this quickly? I am currently shooting outdoors, uncontrolled lighting and all and I am controlling the exposure continuously, to expose on the correct subject. Is this possible at all with this camera?

Again, thank you very much for your report!

Thanasis

My question is on adding an external microphone (AT897) on a boom. I know the HV20 has a mini-jack input but if I use a mini-XLR adapter, does my whole line become unbalanced (and thus subject to interference)?

...and here is a pic of the HV20 from Saturday morning with the Canon mic on board.
thanks to Jim and greg for a great morning!

Cheers
Paul

Great pic Paul.....Can you tell me. Is the IR sensor for the remote in the front or in the back like the HV-10??
Thanks
Luis

So can sopmebody please post a test video file
of the HV20 , if possible in 1920x1080 24p or 25p format ?

Many thanks in advance.

P.S: You can use the free
www.rapidshare.de
if you don´t have the webspace and bandwidth.

There you can store 100 Mbytes for free.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

the microphone is BIGGER than the camera lol!

This brings back the debate of "looking the part". This little cam can deliver incredible results that can be used for b-roll footage. Heck, for some lower profile gigs this cam is probably more than enough.

But are you going to look professional enough holding this cam?

Hmm,maybe someone else could upload a real
native M2T from the camera directly to
www.rapidshare.de

?
Many thanks in advance.


The MOV file is not very impressive,
especially the wind changing water on the lake looks
very artefactly bad...

Also this video looks less sharp than the HV10... ;(

Regards, Stefan.

This surely isn't a pro camera, but we do plan to get one to test with a 35mm adapter for an upcoming feature ( to be a SAGIndie ) being shot in the Bay Area. Do not be shocked if parts of the movie Jamelske ( a fictionalized telling of John Jamelske's horrific crimes ) end up being shot with this camera. Most of the piece takes place on a single set with very controlled lighting. We will be renting a HVX200 though and doing select slow
motion on good old 16mm, but the HV20 may share a lead part based on
HV10 footage. We plan to print the trailer to 35mm film, so the only
concern really is how well the 24p will transfer as I believe the
shutter works quite differently then with film or CCDs. Any
recommendations to try there would be appreciated. Thinking of trying
the shutter at 24fps versus 48, but not sure, might test both. We are
also leaning toward looking at the Brevis35 if it works easily with
the HV20 as know it can work with a HVX200 and is quick/easy in general to setup.

This is a bit obvious, but one "alternative" to LANC, without hacking
the camera, is to tape ( gaffers tape of course ) an IR light to the
remote sensor on the HV20 and send the proper pulses/signals. The
lights existed for X10 and such to control VCRs, though not something
we'd need ourselves with 35mm glass out front. Could make selling your
camera after the project easier, but just one suggestion. Even taping
the remote to your brace/rig pointed back at the front of the HV20
could work in a bind.

Regards, Alan

Alan,

Near time to start your own thread about this endeavor! I am hoping to enact the same setup - HV20 with a Brevis and Nikkor lenses.

Myself and others are sure to be very curious how you progress - keep us posted, and the best of luck! Sounds exciting.

Will be real honest that I'm into scripts, actors and production more than hardware, but I often reference these forums, so will be glad to post some results if we do a test and I believe that is quite possible sometime mid April.
Regards, Alan

Does the HV20 have an automatic lens cover like the HV10 does?

Does the HV20 have an automatic lens cover like the HV10 does?

Yes it does.

Thanks, Ken. :) Glad to hear it.

Jim

It occurred to me that the HV20 might be an interesting match up with the Merlin for those flying scenes. Considering their combined weight, arm fatigue would be much less of a problem than flying an A1 for example.

Any thoughts on how well the HV20 might match up in post with the A1 assuming well lit scenes?
Bob

Bob, this was my very thought when I first saw a picture of the HV20--I had tossed around the idea of the HV10 but the tall skinny form factor was something of a deal killer with the Merlin (I would have made a lead weight plate to fit under it that would have brought down the center of gravity). But now, the HV20 is a really nice squat mass that will feel great on the Merlin. Certainly a light package which is a dual edged sword--easy on the forearms but tougher to control.

We discussed the matching question at Birns and as I recall the conclusion was that you would have to paint the A1 to match the HV, but it would never deliver quite the same image due to the different sensors (the A1 and XLH1 meanwhile can be painted to match beautifully). I would feel a bit nervous about dependable intercutting between the HV and the A1.

Well it couldn't be much worse then Clint Eastwood using a Z1 to match with film for his latest two movies. While they are not a perfect match I'm sure they could be made to match very well in post with some great care.

I'd agree. I bet if there wasn't the issue of 'smear' in a given scene, many many clips would be very tough to tell if they came from a CCD or CMOS based cam.