Tried it out tonight with my M2, got it almost lined up using my own rails and also with my Brevis 35...wow that worked so well together, even with attaching it to the stock lens, longer than i would like but perfectly ok to focus the 35mm lens. NO FLIPPING, what a joy, I can now use the viewfinder and shoot 35mm stuff off the shoulder. The viewfinder is terrific, nice and sharp, good enough for handheld run and gun stuff. The LCD too is better than the Z1.

All in all this camera will change everything as far as 35mm adaptors go and as soon as the affordable adaptors make a relay for it the mini35 will be dead as a doo doo (that's a gag for Blackadder fans out there!) especially as I used the mini 35 on this camera on Tuesday at Video Forum pointing at a very brightly lit scene and could barely get exposure, using a T2 cooke lens. I could have run around with my 201 and Brevis there without any lights and got beautiful pics. This camera is AWESOME!!

WOW Phil,
Thats an awesome looking rig.
How is the balance of it?
Not buying but curious.
Don

Phil,

So you own the Brevis and the M2?

I've been looking hard at both products and would love to hear more as you gain experience with one or the other.

Peace.

Mr Bloom,

The balance is fine, with a longer lens I might double up my IDX battery to match it. Buy one...go on, you know you would like to!

justin,

yes I own both but tend to use the brevis most of the time due to its flexibility and ease of putting on the cameras. Also in British winters the fast diffuser is such a plus. I have barely used my CF2 diffuser yet!

My shootout my be of interest to you on my website it compares the Brevis, M2, and SGPro on the HVX200.

Phil,

My HD200 comes via UPS tomorrow. Also the deck. I feel like taking off work tomorrow and sitting on the stoop with an ice cream cone till that big brown truck comes by.

Ordering a Brevis tonight. Thanks for the true profile shot of it on the JVC. Not so long after all, but still a relay lens will be a welcome piece when it comes.

Just want to tell you that your shootout was very helpful. Thanks for taking the time. Think I read it about eleven times. And I'm real glad you like the 201 (being that I've already pulled the trigger and all)...

Good luck with it.

Its good to see the over all length of the camera is not greatly increased - a good thing when used on the shoulder. The M2 must make this style of shooting difficult.

Thanks for posting this Phil


Andrew

the m2 makes it slightly longer and front heavy. An extra idx battery on the back would even it out, ideally a relay would be best!

stuck the matte box on and it looks bonkers. This long narrow thing stuck on the body with the matte box on the end of it! it is too long really, especially with a longer lens. Be great when someone brings out a relay based adaptor for these cameras other than Letus.

At that length its starting to look like a rocket launcher!!

I like the fact that you can focus when on the shoulder with the brevis. A relay lens will be a great addition.

The M2 or similar adaptors look to be a little awkward to focus on the shoulder.

I suppose it depends on the purpose you use your camera for.

Andrew

Tried it out tonight with my M2, got it almost lined up using my own rails and also with my Brevis 35...wow that worked so well together, even with attaching it to the stock lens, longer than i would like but perfectly ok to focus the 35mm lens.

Can you share some footage when you get a chance? Thanks

Definately, as soon as I am fit enough will knock some off!

Test video is now on my website. This is a quick knock off test so keep that in mind!

its at 35mm shorts 2 and also on the shootout page with more info about what I used.

Its nice to see some footage using a 35mm adapter. Thanks for posting this Phil

Andrew

NO FLIPPING, what a joy, I can now use the viewfinder and shoot 35mm stuff off the shoulder

Just a quick note for any HD-100 owners. You can flip the viewfinder eyepiece upside down very quickly to make shooting with an adapter easy. I've been able to go run and gun with my M2 by hard mounting the M2 to the HD-100 and flipping the eyepiece.

The Brevis looks awesome though. Is there any downside to using the faster ground glass? Wouldn't you just use it all the time?

Just a quick note for any HD-100 owners. You can flip the viewfinder eyepiece upside down very quickly to make shooting with an adapter easy. I've been able to go run and gun with my M2 by hard mounting the M2 to the HD-100 and flipping the eyepiece.

The Brevis looks awesome though. Is there any downside to using the faster ground glass? Wouldn't you just use it all the time?

You get a shallower depth of field with the other diffusers.

How do you find the M2 hard mounted on the M2, not too front heavy? What did you use?

You get a shallower depth of field with the other diffusers.


Because you can shoot at a faster F-Stop? Seems odd to me that the diffuser would change the DOF if the lens is at the same F-Stop. For my taste I've actually found I prefer the look of F4-5.6 excepting when I'm in tight quarters.

How do you find the M2 hard mounted on the M2, not too front heavy? What did you use?

I use rails and the hard mount is a 55-55 coupler ring. I actually pulled apart the original achromat so it slides inside the Fujinon which saves a couple inches of total length and eliminates some edge blur because the achromat is so close to the Fujinon glass. Then I tape up the zoom, focus and macro. This whole setup finally made the M2 "set it up and forget it" for me.

To eliminate some of the front heavy feel I took off the motorized zoom on the Fujinon. I grip the rig with my right hand by the bottom of the M2. In that position I can rest my elbow on my chest- which is how I shoot a SLR. Much sturdier. I could add a pistol grip but I don't think it's needed.

I haven't test removing the rails and just using the Fuji grip as you could with the Brevis. That should work also... but I kinda like the rails supporting everything.

I'm holding out for a Red camera... but these rigs can put out some very nice pictures. I'd like to try that Brevis for the increased light. That sounds EXCELLENT. I almost hate to ask... but is there any benefit to the M2 with the Brevis out there?

Because you can shoot at a faster F-Stop? Seems odd to me that the diffuser would change the DOF if the lens is at the same F-Stop. For my taste I've actually found I prefer the look of F4-5.6 excepting when I'm in tight quarters.

I almost hate to ask... but is there any benefit to the M2 with the Brevis out there?

The CF2 and CF3 let through less light, causing the Bokeh to change, they are less translucent. Am sure someone here can explain better! I compare them to different type of film stock (without the grain!) faster film (standard diffuser) for indoors and low light through to slow film (CF3 for bright sunlight or more shallow portraity look)

Tought question that last one. The M2 does give a really nice image... and once hard mounted you will get a great image again and again. I guess my shootout explains the differences best and which one you really need.

Just a quick note for any HD-100 owners. You can flip the viewfinder eyepiece upside down very quickly to make shooting with an adapter easy.

The day I discovered this was a good day for me. ;-)

i find the output quite noisy from my camera. is this normal? There doesnt appear to be a way to set gain to -3db

Are you refering to the HD200?

As i am having the exact same problem.

A couple of others were as well - a couple of weeks ago, there was a thread about it.

I have searched for an answer but couldnt find one. Yes refering to the HD200

Is it worse than other cams - you have used? I have no experience with other hd cams so i wouldnt know - do you think it is a problem with the camera

i find the output quite noisy from my camera. is this normal? There doesnt appear to be a way to set gain to -3db

I don't know much about the HD-200 but I do know I tested my HD-100 against the HVX200 and I thought the JVC was a lot better... but there still is noise.

These adapters really show off the noise because you see it in the smooth gradations of the out of focus areas. I think noise is less noticeable in the sharp details of a deep DOF picture.

Yes I think so, I noticed it straight away, am not talking with the adaptor am talking clean shots...seems a bit crazy to have to fix it in post which is what the other thread says...

Here is a new pic of the JVC with the Brevis. I will set it up with the M2 soon.

Do you think this is something that JVC could fix - as i am considering selling if this case remains - its not a big ask to want clean images.

Do you think this is something that JVC could fix - as i am considering selling if this case remains - its not a big ask to want clean images.

I remember saying that before I sold my HVX200. I've got a friend with an F-900. It has noise. I was just watching the DVD of "Bubble" which was shot on the F-950 and it had noise. You're gonna deal with it to some degree no matter what you do.

The only thing I can recommend is never shoot at higher than F5.6 on any of these little cameras. You'll get really noisy images for some technical reason I can't recall right now.

As to anything specific to the HD-200 I'd be curious if anyone else can comment.

it is definatley noisier than my xdcam f350 and my z1

Yes, i am thinking about selling if i cannot find a resolution for this problem

it is definatley noisier than my xdcam f350 and my z1

Z1 was very clean in my tests... I'm not sure there's another one of these little HD cameras as clean as that one. But the Z1 has no 24p and the codec isn't as strong based on my tests. The dynamic range and color rendition on the JVC's are better too. Just depends on where your priorities are. I knew the HD-100 was noisier than the Sony when I bought, but compared to that HVX it looks great to me.

Apparently the 200 is noisier than the 100?

Apparently the 200 is noisier than the 100?

I don't think there are any tests on that yet. There was an indication that the HD-250 was less noisy than the HD-100 though... so who knows what's going on at this point. Someone's just going to have to do some side by side tests.

are there any settings within the menus that can minimize this. I love the camera and would hate to send it back because of this. I just noticed it straight away the first time I shot with it. I never noticed this much noise with the z1, HVX or A1.

are there any settings within the menus that can minimize this. I love the camera and would hate to send it back because of this. I just noticed it straight away the first time I shot with it. I never noticed this much noise with the z1, HVX or A1.

If it's noisier than an HVX then you've got problems IMHO. Reduce your detail setting to minimum and see what that does. Double check that you don't have automatic gain enabled by accident. It's possible to have the AGC mapped to the Low gain setting, check the "switch mode" to make sure it's not.

Never shoot F8 or higher. Dial in one of the scene file settings like Paulo's V2 or Panamatch to make sure you're not way off. Those were made for the HD-100 but hopefully the new cameras share similar settings. I do know the default HD-100 settings weren't very good.

Maybe some of the other wizards around here have better ideas...

Yes, i went on a shoot today and it was still quite gainy - im opting to send my cam back to the supplier on thursday - if those test results come up badly

i am going to contact my sales rep and get him to contact jvc for me for a definitve answer. i was hoping it was just my camera but if others are experiencing similar probs...

Phil,

can you post a still image from your camera showing the noise.

I think my HD100 shows more noise than expected.

Ta


Andrew

couple using the 35mm adaptor which help show up the noise better (the adaptor itself doesnt create noise) and a clean shot. You can see it clearly in any dark areas.

Someone's just going to have to do some side by side tests.
At the moment I'm concentrating on testing the HD250/HZ-CA13U combo and new features. I will then move on to side-by-side with the HD100.
I have noticed a tiny bit of noise in dark areas, but I've been shooting with DNR off and black stretch 5. I will take a couple days and test all of the processing settings like I did with the HD100.
I'm squeezing this all in between my normal day-to-day gigs, so please bear with me.

Phil

Looking at your images, I often see similar noise levels on footage from my HD100 - especially in available light situations.

Its harder to spot when more lighting is added.

Andrew

yeah...it isn't really acceptable as it is

Yes, but you would think they would have lowered the noise levels in the upgrade similarly - im getting even abit more than what is seen in Phil's images

i have tweaked my short...graded it and changed a shot

i have tweaked my short...graded it and changed a shot

Phil,

I like it. The music adds so much drama to the subject. Good work.

Thanks to you, I've just ordered a Brevis, as I find most of my work is done using available light.

I have a short film ready to shot in mid march, but I can't face doing it without the ability to play with DoF to get a more filmic look. I know there are tricks to achieve some DoF with the stock Fujinon lens, but its too limited.

Thanks for the test and footage.

Andrew

yeah it's amazing how music can change what is simply just a few shots knocked off to test the jvc/ brevis combo out.

You will love the Brevis. Definately worth getting either the CF2 or CF3 too as it makes the stuff outside so much nicer. It is pretty easy to change. Takes about five minutes...but be careful as you can let dust in easily! Hopefully Dennis can get it to you in time...I know that the SGPro orders aren't being sent out till the end of March. That's the problem, demand for these has rocketed in the past couple of months making it hard for the guys to meet demand!

it's worth getting rods for the JVC and Brevis. Ones I would recommend are the ENG rods from DVRIG with 10cm extensions (you can specify and length you want from them), which will let you add a mattebox. http://www.dvtec.tv/id32.html

i agree, if you are used to using 2/3rd inch cameras shooting on a 1/3rd chip camera can be really upsetting when you can't get the shallow look.

If you need advice on what lenses to buy let me know!

Phil

Thanks Phil

I'm assuming the CF1 that ships with the brevis is ideal for interior shots?
The majority of my short film is inside.

Andrew

yeah its perfect. its what i used for "homeless portraits"

Hi Phil,

What lenses do you have in your kit for the brevis?
Correct me if I am wrong but the 35mm lenses are one that are used for still photographer on SLR Cameras? NO?
Do you have a preferred manufacturer? EG Nikon, Cannon etc?

Simon

These are my two cents:
I choose the M2 over the Brevis-the reason being that while I find them both to be quite sharp, I find that the M2 does a better job on areas that are out of focus- they look smoother and less grainy than with the Brevis. In other words, with the M2, you get less of the ground glass grain. I think the M2 looks cleaner, overall.

Simon!

Were you not paying attention when you assisted me in the shoot in the School last December?!! You were paying too much attention to the XDCAM HD i think!

I shot using the Brevis and you passed me loads of different lenses as I went for different looks. They are all Nikon mounts originally made for 35mm stills camera. Which is what the whole principle behind these adaptors is. Affordable adaptor, affordable glass for affordable cameras! Although we are still talking many thousands to get the best glass, camera adaptor combo. Still cheaper than mini35 and PL mount lenses.

I have 18mm, 20mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 80mm, 135mm, 180mm all as fast as they make 'em!

and 25-80mm, 70-200mm zooms.

The M2 does have a lovely BOKEH. Don't forget the Brevis has swappable diffusers. Check out my website and look at 35mm shorts 2 for a test i did with the Brevis CF2. Jaadgy have you used both then?

Phil