Hey guys,

I've been reading over the DTD solutions section and there are lots of people trying to go HD-SDI route onto tapeless system.

Now everyone seems to say at this current point there is no solution.

So how about at this current moment, somebody being able to put together a DSR-11 type system but recording onto full HD tapes.

Would this not give people the higher recording format but in a portable HD-SDI format? That could be run from V-Lock batteries and has HD-SDI in with audio too?

It's a long shot but it's just hit me that if HD-SDI is what people are striving for on for instance the XLH1 but portable DTD system is unavailable, then the closest solution at the moment would be a high quality portable tape solution.

I know i'd be definately interested in this, as the higher quality would benefit me more then not having to capture the footage again.

Ive gone through about 4 or 5 pages of this board and not seen any reference to this so sorry if it's been discussed.

Thanks
Martin

There's far too much data coming from the HD SDI for a low cost tape system. The high end HD VTR recorders can take it as an input, but you're into a different price bracket. Also, there's no point in having a DV based system because the highly compressed HDV is already out there.

Showreel magazine has an article by Phil Rhodes about recording the HD SDI from the Canon H1 and JVC HD 250 onto a hard drive.

www.wafian.com

Hey guys,

I know what you mean, however I wasn't talking about a DV solution. My mention of the DSR-11 was mearly referring to the form factor and wondered if it was possible to get this "portable" size machine with a HDSDI input.

If it's not possible then there definately isn't a solution wether tapeless or tape that is portable.

Martin

wondered if it was possible to get this "portable" size machine with a HDSDI input.



Hey guys,

We, over at Colorspace, just announced the upcoming availability of our ICON Recorder. Our uncompressed solution offers recording of up to 3Gbits/sec and our HD solution utilizes high bitrate compression, targeted for use with prosumer HD cameras. One of our main design considerations for this recorder was a small and lightweight form factor allowing for on board recording.

For more information, please check out the product page at www.colorspaceinc.com/icon. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks,
Adam Burtle
Colorspace, Inc.

Adam,
GREAT ! We are all waiting for someone to hop on this...

...woah...30k...?

this is the next revolution...we have all these relatively cheap cameras with the ability to ingest uncompressed footage and no reasonable solution for recording it. the solutions that do exist only work in a tethered studio environment. what's really needed is a reasonable portable field device.

are there advantages to your uncompressed recording device at $30,000 that the wafian, at half the price, does not have, adam? is there an advantage in terms of portability, battery operation, or something that justifies twice the price? it's exciting that more third-party manufacturers are considering these devices, but for what you pay, RED still seems to promise the mostest for the leastest.....and the soonest, if they hit their NAB release date.

for half of 30K, i can build a dave perry-ish "mobile" uncompressed recording unit, with RAID, Kona card, tower, monitor, cabling, etc. i would love to know what the advantages are of the colorspace device. more competition in this arena and more options would be great....

i'd love to see one of these at NAB, but i'll be out of the country shooting in a remote location, wishing i had portable uncompressed field recording solution....

There doesn't seem to be any pictures of the icon recorder or sizes/dimensions mentioned.

How do you guys classify a mobile solution? To me its something that can be carried on your person, not something that isn't fixed into a studio environment.

The wafian for sure isn't mobile even if it was battery powered. I'd definately have a bad back with a Wafian and an XLH1 to lug around the hills of a motocross track.

Do you think there will ever be a true uncompressed solution (or cineform equivalent) HD-SDI ingest recorder that can be attached to XLH1 or in a backpack for instance?

If only it were possible i know i'd be on the list to purchase.

Martin

The Colorspace's pricing will be critical with cameras like RED and the SI-2K coming out this year.

There needs to be a worthwhile price difference between these new cameras and a Canon H1 or JVC HD 250 ( which seem to be the two cameras this product is aimed at) Colorspace shooting package to make an impact in the lower budget digital cinema market.

Adam,
GREAT ! We are all waiting for someone to hop on this...

...woah...30k...?

I know, $30k isn't chump change. On the other hand, the only other truly portable HD-SDI recording solution I know of is around $60k for 10 minutes of 1080p recording. So in that context, half the price for 3-5x the recording length is a pretty good value, in my opinion. Plus touchscreen and all sorts of other features. Ultimately, we realize that not everyone who wants portable HD-SDI recording can afford $30k for the uncompressed ICON, and by offering a version with high bitrate compression, we can offer a substantial savings to those users. That would be the version of the product most relevant to the DVinfo crowd.

are there advantages to your uncompressed recording device at $30,000 that the wafian, at half the price, does not have, adam? is there an advantage in terms of portability, battery operation, or something that justifies twice the price? it's exciting that more third-party manufacturers are considering these devices, but for what you pay, RED still seems to promise the mostest for the leastest.....and the soonest, if they hit their NAB release date.

for half of 30K, i can build a dave perry-ish "mobile" uncompressed recording unit, with RAID, Kona card, tower, monitor, cabling, etc. i would love to know what the advantages are of the colorspace device. more competition in this arena and more options would be great....

i'd love to see one of these at NAB, but i'll be out of the country shooting in a remote location, wishing i had portable uncompressed field recording solution....


There are lots of advantages, but the two most apparent are: 1, portability.. 2, lack of compression.

1: Lots of environments are suited to tether recording.. in a studio or on many types of sets, a 110v-powered suitcase-sized recorder with a 50ft tether to the camera isn't a big deal. In many other environments though, a <12lb battery-powered recorder that mounts to the back of the camera, on a steadicam, crane, etc.. is of huge benefit, and that's the point of the ICON. It's completely portable, and will work in a variety of environments that one wouldn't dare take a studio recorder.

2: Many users are fine with compression, but as a general rule, this is not true of large budget productions. They want quality approximating film, and the only way to truly do that is to follow an original camera negative production model, where you're capturing as much information as physically possible. Ultimately, for these types of users, saving a few thousand dollars on archiving costs or media pack costs just doesn't balance the tradeoff in risk to the quality of their footage. Plus, the workflow benefits of recording directly to an industry-standard format (as opposed to something proprietary) are hugely attractive to many.

The Wafian is a good solution for certain types of users, but the ones who are asking us for the uncompressed ICON are the ones who can't even consider compression, for a variety of reasons (one or two of which I touched on above). Whatever their reasons, there's a market there, and we chose to serve it. By building modularity into the ICON, we knew we could scale the recording downward to a compressed model, and serve the indie community too.

There doesn't seem to be any pictures of the icon recorder or sizes/dimensions mentioned.

How do you guys classify a mobile solution? To me its something that can be carried on your person, not something that isn't fixed into a studio environment.

The wafian for sure isn't mobile even if it was battery powered. I'd definately have a bad back with a Wafian and an XLH1 to lug around the hills of a motocross track.

Do you think there will ever be a true uncompressed solution (or cineform equivalent) HD-SDI ingest recorder that can be attached to XLH1 or in a backpack for instance?

If only it were possible i know i'd be on the list to purchase.

Martin

We're inviting people will come to NAB to see the ICON in person. I'd like that to be the first real look the community gets at the product, and exact specs, photos, etc will follow.

With respect to "mobile" and "portable" .. I believe these words are over-used nowadays. I like the word "on-board" as it implies what the product really is meant to do-- be used ON BOARD the camera.. whether it be on your shoulder, on a steadicam sled, etc. Portable *SHOULD NOT* mean "can be carried by a weightlifter" ..at least in my opinion. Portable means "i can hold this in one hand."

Do you think there will ever be a true uncompressed solution (or cineform equivalent) HD-SDI ingest recorder that can be attached to XLH1 or in a backpack for instance?

If only it were possible i know i'd be on the list to purchase.

Martin

That *IS* the whole idea of the indie-version of the ICON recorder! ;) To have it *sitting on-board an XLH1* and recording CineForm or equivalent footage. And doing so to hot swappable media packs, battery-powered, touchscreen, etc. The one downside of the XL series cameras in my opinion is that they are very front-heavy, and the ICON mounted on the back of an XLH1 will actually help to improve the ergonomics of this camera. We'll be showing more at NAB, but I think many people will be pretty amazed with the quality you can get out of an XL-H1 recorded direct to disk (out the HD-SDI).

The Colorspace's pricing will be critical with cameras like RED and the SI-2K coming out this year.

There needs to be a worthwhile price difference between these new cameras and a Canon H1 or JVC HD 250 ( which seem to be the two cameras this product is aimed at) Colorspace shooting package to make an impact in the lower budget digital cinema market.

This is quite true, and we're working very diligently to get the pricing as low as possible. I believe there will be a lot of people who will benefit from the low cost of a RED ONE-- but on the other hand, once you add in lenses and peripherals, you're still talking $30-50k for many peoples' complete packages.. and I believe there will be many Indie users who are solidly in the $10-15k for a complete camera+recording package.. that's the market we're trying to serve with the compressed version of the ICON. SI-2k with their DVR recorder will end up lower in price than a complete RED package, but still will be out of reach for some users.

Not to mention the modularity of the ICON.. as your production level grows, and you move into a newer/better camera, the ICON will move upwards with you.. you don't need to sell it. I think this adds a lot of value for users, as they can sell their camera but keep the recording solution. The modularity of the ICON means that even as they move from shooting XL-H1 to high end digital cinema cameras like the Viper, the ICON can be easily upgraded to suit.

great post, thanks for the info, adam, you've clarified a lot of questions. it sounds like a very promising prospect. i'm hoping to already have a compression solution in RED, but will look forward to your product release with interest.

We are also in need of a product like this (in truth, who's not), and have been asking many of these same questions. In our small studio we run the Multibridge Pro through the Mac Pro, but I shudder every time I even think about taking it on the road. The Wafian is a great product, but at the cost of two JVC 250's (with decent glass) it's not an easy purchase, and it's anything but "on board". Put the Wafian at around 10K-14K and we might own one by now, at 8K we would buy one for each camera. I know, that's another no brainer.

With the release of more affordable SDI/HD cameras, you would think more companies would be announcing support products like this left and right, but we have seen very little activity. You can spend the extra money for a camera that has SDI, only to find out you just bought a bullet, and now need to buy the gun before you can start shooting.

We need an SDI portable solution right now for the JVC HD250, and for the future with RED. The education around the limitations of HDV compression has grown a lot in the last year, I only hope it grows larger so the demand for SDI/HD solutions become more common place.

I'll put the soap box away for now. Good luck with the product Adam!

daniel, bring that soapbox back. i have some questions! how are you liking your multibridge pro? what apps are you using it for? why blackmagic and not AJA?

thanks....

you gotta be kidding me, right? If anyone thinks I'll drop $30k on an SDI recorder when I have, roughly, $10k invested in a camera, has GOT to be dreaming. The current price point for AJA, Blackmagic, and a terrabyte of fiber storage is around $2-3K. This price point, like DV tape storage, is about right, i.e., the recording system equals the camera cost. $30-$50K might be OK for a studio, but, you have missed at least 75% of your potential market if the price exceeds $10k. Yes, I understand that you need to recover your non-recurring costs, but, until you realize that you need to buy your way into the market, your sales will be small.

No argument from us Bill, we are all speaking the same language.

Meryem,
Since creating the following post, we have had good results with Multibridge HD/SDI and the JVC HD250. No easy carry, but it works well in the studio. This should answer your questions and then some.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=76416&highlight=multibridge+pro

i have done a ton of reading on this subject but somehow missed this most excellent link. thanks, daniel.

i wouldn't be too harsh on colorspace. i believe that they will have to re-think the price, but the market will decide.

i can't help but think that canon knows they would sell a mother lode of XH G1 cameras if either they or a partner could bring the price down on uncompressed output. sooner rather than later would be nice.....

i can't help but think that canon knows they would sell a mother lode of XH G1 cameras if either they or a partner could bring the price down on uncompressed output. sooner rather than later would be nice.....

I could not agree more, it just makes sense. Same goes for any of the mid range cameras/manufactueres selling with SDI.

And I didn't see Bill's reply as being harsh towards Colorspace, in fact very much the opposite. I got the impression he finds $30K for a Wafian over priced when our SDI camera choices are considerably less now. On that we can all agree. The Wafian is priced fine if we are talking about the cost of a Vericam, but ill suited in conjunction with the more recent $10-15K SDI cameras, RED included.

I'm looking at putting together a small (likely not certified by BlackMagic) computer system just to be a little more mobile. Perhaps something from DELL with an intergrated monitor setup, at least until we have more options.

Peace!

you gotta be kidding me, right? If anyone thinks I'll drop $30k on an SDI recorder when I have, roughly, $10k invested in a camera, has GOT to be dreaming.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but the $30k ICON is aimed at people shooting Vipers and the like. It offers recording and features equivalent to $100k setups with metric ton more mobility ;)

The version targeted at the indie crowd will come in around $10k, hopefully under that. This version will offer virtually ever feature identical to the digital cinema version, with the exception of 'completely' uncompressed recording (the final iteration will likely offer a couple formats of high bitrate visually lossless recording). I know that as much as $10k might seems excessive to many, but an indie rig with this recording setup will go head to head with an F900.. in my mind that's a significant value. When Lucas was shooting Episode 2 with the F900, if someone had said that in a few years you could buy a camera and recorder rig for around $15k that would produce similar quality as that F900 and fly on a steadicam, crane, go in a backpack, etc.. I don't think most of us would have said that to be a poor value ;)

Not to mention all the benefits of this type of direct to disk recording.. random file access, no wasted time capturing, the ability to view dailies on set, meta data, streamlined work flow, etc.

[edit-- added what you see below]
Thanks for your continued honest input. I want to make it clear I'm not trying to "sell" you guys on anything.. I'm a filmmaker, not a salesman. I wanted to clarify exactly the products we're working on (pricing, features, etc), but I'm not looking to sell you guys on it.. it either sells itself, or it doesn't. The input of the community (desired features, file formats, price point etc) helps us work to to make it a better product so hopefully it will do an even better job selling itself. There are many tools for many jobs, and I'm not crazy enough to think this will be the perfect tool for everyone and in every situation.. it will ultimately be another tool in the toolbox. I just want to make it the most appealing tool that it can be.

Adam...


My apologies for misunderstanding your intent. I didn't mean to stick my nose where it was inappropriate.

Not inappropriate at all.. we welcome public discussion. I seriously want to hear what everyone thinks.. good and bad.

Adam, when can we expect a similar type of product as your indie (approx $10k) offering, but with Solid State memory? May seem a bit far off considering that all but the most expensive solid state harddrives haven't even hit the market yet, but still, the technology seems ripe for use in this environment.

Adam, when can we expect a similar type of product as your indie (approx $10k) offering, but with Solid State memory?

Who said the indie solution wouldn't be offered in solid state at that price...? :D

Seriously though, we expect to have both solid state and hard disk based options. The tradeoff is in record length vs. ruggedization. But with high bitrate recording (5:1 compression, 10:1 compression, etc) you can still get a lot of recording space for your money with solid state. I guess it depends on how much you shoot per day, but I think it's conceivable many indie users will be able to go the solid state route and still have enough media space on hand for each day's shooting. And for those going the harddisk route, we have some other tricks up our sleeve to help with ruggedization and preventing data loss etc.

I would certainly think a solid state, SCALABLE recorder in the $10K range, would tweak some interest. It would certainly attract my attention. Scaleable means that the entry level, at $8-10k, would store some amount that would be expandable as needed. Given the current price of SS memory, I suspect additional price drops would be needed to reach a terrabyte for a reasonable investment cost.

Yes, modularity/scalability is a big focus in the design of our products. The recorder actually consists of two elements.. the recorder itself, and the media pack. The media pack is swappable. Which is to say, you could buy a recorder and a small solid state pack, and later buy a larger solid state pack as whole pricing of memory comes down. Or buy a small solid state pack and a large hard disk pack. We want to let the product configure itself for as many situations as possible.

The compressed version will even be upgradeable to uncompressed recording via swapping on the uncompressed media packs.

Also, if you didn't notice on the product page, the media packs are hot swappable. So even if you're right at the edge of your budget and buy the smallest media pack possible, and later find a need to shoot takes that are longer than the record length of your media pack, you don't HAVE to go out and buy a huge media pack. You could instead buy a second small media pack, and hotswap in the middle of the take. Whether or not hot swapping is ideal for each user, various considerations come into play, but we're giving you the option. Again, scalability.. big factor.

We have a lot of tricks up our sleeve.. many of which I can't talk about until after NAB, heh.

Isn't there a Panasonic DVCPRO-HD deck with HD-SDI that runs on 12V?

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks,
Adam Burtle
Colorspace, Inc.

Thanks Adam, I do have some questions.

Colorspace will be releasing a compressed ICON solution that utilizes high bitrate compression,

If I understand correctly the F950 and the F23 use lossless MPEG4 Studio Profile compression prior to writing to tape. Somewhere between 2 or 3 to one.

Is your compressed ICON unit going to use a true lossless compression scheme? Will the compressed ICON unit handle the full dual channel HD-SDI bit rate?

with video acquisition based around single link (4:2:2) and dual link (4:4:4) HD-SDI.,

Again; If I understand correctly, 1920 imagers, read 4:4:4 in RGB at 12 bits of precision results in an unmodified bit rate just under a gig a second. How are you doing this uncompressed with a single drive?

Thanks

F23 and F950 don't have embedded recording, but yes, the SRW1 is mpeg4 based, with 880Mb in 4:4:4 mode. That makes it around 3:1 compression.. which is lossy, but not terribly so. In the recent CineForm shootout against 880Mb SR, I recall SR removing/losing about 1 stop of SnR. (someone correct me if I'm remembering wrong...)

Which brings us to Colorspace products. We have two recorders, the uncompressed ICON, and the compressed version (which we will be announcing has been renamed to the "INDI" to remove confusion as to which is which). The ICON (uncompressed) is targeted squarely at the 4:4:4 digital cinema crowd.. productions shooting with $100k+ cameras (Viper, F950, etc), generally working with several hundred thousand dollar or even multi million dollar budgets. The INDI is targeted at the prosumer filmmaker, shooting on the XL-H1, HD-250, perhaps a rented Varicam, etc. The INDI will offer high bitrate (likely to be adjustable between say.. 60 and 250Mbit) compression. Right now, as it stands, I believe the INDI will only offer in 4:2:2 recording.

So, as you can see, we're not really intending the INDI to offer lossless compression. If anything, lossless compression will be implemented as a selectable option on the ICON.. but it's an option I don't expect to get used much. Our experience has been that the high end digital cinema users are demanding uncompressed acquisition, and are afraid of compression, even in mathematically lossless forms.

If it turns out there is a great deal of demand from XL-H1 (etc) users who want lossless direct-to-disk recording, then we'll probably work on a version of the INDI that can support 2:1 or 3:1. The case may be that we've underestimated the quality the indie filmmaker market desires.. in which case, we'll adapt.. that's the beauty of a modular platform.

HD imagers often readout A/D at between 12 and 14bits, yes.. however, the commonly implemented SMPTE HD standards are all 10bit* so that reduces the bitrate proportionately. Even so, doing the math in my head, RGB 1080/23.98p @ 12bitdepth = ~240MB/second. That's math in my head though, so I might be off. 10bit YUV is around 130MB/sec. 10bit RGB is around 200MB/sec.

Regardless of whether we're writing 130 or 240MB/sec, it's definitely not going to a single drive. The ICON media pack contains an array of shock mounted disks (plus other logic). Even if we could somehow write to one single disk, that wouldn't make much sense, just because of the space limitations involved. The array of disks (and the logic that controls them) is part of the cost of the media packs.. if we could use a single disk with no RAID controller, that would make the media packs immensely simpler (and cheaper).

So, to summarize.. to achieve quality from your XL-H1 approximating HDCAM, we're offering the INDI. (and we recently got done testing uncompressed out the H1, side-by-side with the F900, and everyone was quite suprised how close the images look.. I think a lot of people at NAB will be too). To get the absolute best possible quality out of cameras like the Viper, we're offering the ICON. Our development model involves responding to the demands of the market, so if it proves there are demands beyond (or between) these, then we will respond in kind.

Hope that helped, sorry for my lengthy reply.

Adam S. Burtle
Colorspace, Inc.


*Regarding 10bit SMPTE: I am not an engineer. We have actual engineers to understand all of the SMPTE specs ;) ...I do think there actually might be a 12bit SMPTE spec, but it's not widely implemented to my knowledge.

Adam,
Thanks for the super reply.
It did help, a lot.
Not to lengthy either, just right.
Sounds like you have a winning approach.
Good luck at NAB
RVC

Here's a good one. For 30g's I could buy a new VW bug and install a mac pro with a bm card and 2tb of storage with a 23" Dell Monitor and still have enough left over for the XLh1 and 500ft of BNC. Excluding tax, dock, and license of course. Pimp my hard drive!

Here's a good one. For 30g's I could buy a new VW bug and install a mac pro with a bm card and 2tb of storage with a 23" Dell Monitor and still have enough left over for the XLh1 and 500ft of BNC. Excluding tax, dock, and license of course. Pimp my hard drive!

I'm not really sure how to take your post. I take it you don't think $30k is a fair price for a <10lb 4:4:4 HDSDI recorder setup with swappable media packs? If so, then what price do you feel is fair? $100? $1,000? $10,000? Maybe we should give it away for free? I know it can be hard to determine what a fair price really would be, given that nothing like this even exists on the market yet. Of course, you could buy a much heavier tape-based *compressed* recorder for $80,000 from Sony.

As I've said before, everything is just a tool for the toolbox, and as a filmmaker I don't honestly believe our products are right for every job.. but I do believe they offer a very good value. As I've said above, we have the first portable HD-SDI 444 recorder + media packs to hit the market.. we could easily price it at $70k, and rental houses would still buy it (many people like the Venom at $50k with 10minutes of recording).. but that isn't our business model.

If you want to debate the merits of the setup that you described above, we absolutely can. A mac pro, bm card, and 2TB will work fine for many people... on a sound stage. And when you need to go into the field? Or record more than 2hrs of material in a sitting (you didn't mention if your 2TB array comes with hot-swappable disk packs, so I'll assume it doesn't)? And when the capture utility starts crashing in the middle of the day.. then what? Your recording medium is an investment.. and insurance policy. All your time, effort, money (rented lighting, cameras, permits, crew, etc), all of that boils down to your digital negatives. Renting or buying an ICON is an investment in the flexibility to record in any situation where digital filmmaking is possible, and know that your negatives are there, in the media pack, 100% of the time, no matter what.

So let's get back on topic. You don't have $30k to drop on recording. And I understand that.. not many people do. Which is why we're working on the INDI, the little brother to the ICON-- same interface, same form factor (smaller media packs, even), high bitrate compression, but a fraction of the price. Additionally, if you'd like to contribute some realistic thoughts to an actual discussion, we're listening.

Take it as a bit of levity to enhance otherwise stifling conversation. My solution is as big as a volkswagon, yours fits in the glovebox. They both have merit but mine is more fun. Good Luck.

Most would agree that a hand full of production HDD's, a 7 inch touchscreen, some proprietary electronic glue, a production battery and low tech assembly hardware does not justifiy $30000. Look at the cost/complexity of the F23 by comparison.

However, due to economies of scale, the units are probably appropriately priced. If it does what it is suppose to do, it should get lots of competition from high volume, manufacturing savy, majors. Colorspace will have to respond.

But more important than price is what compression standard does the INDI use. Will the stored dataset injest seamlessly and be supported in native fasion by a broad spectrum of NLE?
If not, the product defeats its purpose and is not worth having at any price.

I know it's tempting to boil a product down into descriptions like, "a hand full of production HDD's, some proprietary electronic glue.." ..but that's a bit of an understatement. That proprietary electronic glue is quite sophisticated, and we have some of the best engineers in the world brewing it. Have you had a chance to see the ICON/INDI at NAB? If not, drop by SU9926 (or if you're not at NAB, at least have a glance at the web site-- colorspaceinc.com) ..I haven't seen anyone yet who wasn't impressed by the form factor, design, and versatility of the products.

The compression in the INDI is a big deal to us, and ultimately is why we want to implement multiple compression schemes.. so users can record directly to what functions best for their workflow. H.264 is the front runner for the first codec we'll support, with CineForm and a few other possibilities right behind it. As we get closer to retail availability over the next couple months, we'll talk more about specifics.

Alright fellas here’s my 2 cents and I’ll tell you what it ain’t worth much!!! These decks below were the only options a few months ago to record directly to HD-SDI. The Sony deck was and is the really on portable HD deck used in almost all the big time productions. Miami vice and Superman returns (if I’m not mistaken) Etc… The Panasonic deck was something we rigged up last minute to shoot a video…. Not recommended if you ask me:

Sony SRW-1 HD = $ 31,499.95

The Sony SRPC-1 is a digital VTR adapter that works in conjunction with the SRW-1 HDCAM SR portable digital recorder. The adapter connects directly to the F950 via fiber-optic connection and has the ability to transmit a signal through HD Serial Digital Interface (HD-SDI) outputs.

AJ-HD130DC = $25,000.00

HD-SDI input/output and SDI output for applications such as line recording and in-studio production
AC or DC operation


Fast forward to today and we have new HD-SDI disc recorders from Wafian (HR-F1 –PORTABLE), 1 beyond HD-D2D, and Astro HR-7401 Etc. The recorders are way too bulky, and are in the same price range. We recorded a musical video from the XLH1 via HD-SDI to the Panasonic deck; the video turned out great, but hauling that deck around was a pain in the ass. Where others have failed Colorsapce has succeeded!!!! The prices are reasonable I think, and to think you can mount everything onto the camera and not have to worry about cables!!! Awesome I tell you!!

I’m not trying to start a fight but Colorspace is most welcome in my book. I searched heaven and hell (just kidding) for a viable HD-SDI based recorder all to no avail. I did find some Russian company that had some HD-SDI based flash recorder however….

Like I was saying Colorspace Icon and little bro Indy are most welcome!!! My only questions are what are the sizes of the hdd disks (prices also), and h.264 (is that quicktime)???? To be frank I’m as happy as a jackrabbit on crack….. To think some kid could buy the SONY HDR-FX7 (via hdmi), or the Canon XH G1 (hd-sdi) hook it up and get quality comparable to the high end cinelta cameras. It’s like when man stole fire from the gods or something along those lines!!!!

Enough of my geekery; like I said my 2 cents aren't worth a damm!!!

Tunde,

H.264 is MPEG-4. There is quite a bit of useful information from wiki here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264




MPEG-4 is just the first compression format we will be offering, many others will be following. Feedback is paramount, as our customer base will decide which codec becomes #2, #3...etc...

If you guys are considering Cineform, what of Avid DNxHD??

Both of those are on the table. We will have a clearer understanding of which codecs we will be able to support first in the coming weeks. DNxHD, and Cineform or another JPEG2K variant are high on the list. If there is anything else you would really like to see please let us know.

All right Aaron here are my 2 cents, and as always they aren’t worth a damm. So I’m still drooling over the Icon and Indy… Then it hit me like a jackhammer you guys are going up against the very big 800-pound gorilla called RED!!!!! Whether you like it or not you are.

I just read the Post production workflow used by Pete Jackson’s Weta Digital at Hdforindies, for the short film they shot on the RED cameras… To be able to unplug the drive, view the files, and edit natively on FCP if they wanted (which they did)….

So where am I headed?? DNXHD should be on the forefront why? Because, slap on either Icon or Indy onto a viper, XLH1 Etc, and be able to record to Dnxhd 220, 144 etc. Most of all the big productions end up DNXHD anyways (for post)… Do I have to state the obvious most film are still cut on Avid! Not trying to start a fight, just stating a fact. I’m sure you can all tell I’m a little biased towards Avid; I use it to edit Sorry!!

Check out this scenario… Viper + Icon or Indy recording natively to DNXHD, detach media pack; back up data to hard drive. Give media pack back to DP and editor starts to edit on Avid natively. The same scenario could also be used for Cineform. I’m sure you guys at Colorspace are already on top of things, and I’m just blowing off hot steam!!!

All right folks that’s all she wrote!! Don’t forget my 2 cents aren’t worth a damm!!!

Hey Adam/Aaron,

It was great to catch up with the Colorspace Crew again after stumbling across you guys last year at NAB. Spent some time chatting with Drew and great to see your progress in 2007.

I'm going to put forward an idea that would incorporate the Indi/Icon and find you a larger target market (from my own selfish perspective)

This is what would work for me. An "I" product that allows uncompressed 1920x1080 10bit 4:2:2 recording. I don't need 4:4:4 or dual link but uncompressed off our F900R's/Varicams would be great (without the additional cost of Dual link -4:4:4) As you're probably aware one of the most common forms of production is coming off a F900 into a SRW1. Why not target that market?

Maybe this could be an optional upgrade for the Indi?

J2K is practically impossible to edit in real-time . . . you would still end up needing a transcode to something like CineForm or ProRes422 to get real-time editing (444 CineForm being my preference :))

Scott, I agree with you. For the time being, we are trying to clearly establish two product lines, and keep the blurring between them as minimal as possible so there will be no more confusion as to which product is $6k, which is $20k, which has compression, and which doesn't.

That said, we can do a lossless 4:2:2 INDI, and are more than willing to discuss this on an individual basis.. that's the beauty of a modular product, and being a boutique supplier.

If you or anyone else would like to discuss lossless 4:2:2 recording to one of our products, feel free just to contact me directly. adam AT colorspace inc (.) com

I'm sure it will be a great product for some people. Other people simply won't need it. If you don't need it, don't buy it and don't complain about the pricing.