See http://cweb.canon.jp/ivis/hv20/index.html

English translation link (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcweb.canon.jp%2Fivis%2Fhv20%2Findex.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) via Google Language tools...

What do you make of it? Guess I'll have to re-name the forum.

A couple of still photo samples... http://cweb.canon.jp/ivis/still-sample/index.html#hv20

Tech Specs in English (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcweb.canon.jp%2Fivis%2Fhv20%2Findex.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) via Google Language tools...

from the tech spech...

Scanning system = Progressive

?

cinema mode ?

:)

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+ Mac OS X support ! :)

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Mic input

headphone output

+ HDMI

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Very interesting. It looks like it uses the exact same sensor and optical block from the HV10. The cinema mode is a separate mode (P, Tv, Av, Cinema) and it appears to record 24 fps but in 60i, kind of like the Sony V1. The sensor is natively progressive like the HV10 so I guess pulldown is being added? The camera definitely only records in HDV 1080/60i but it can play back 24F and 30F (it says this specifically under the accessory page). There also appears to be an exposure dial by the lens but no manual focus ring. There's HDMI, mic in, headphone out but no LANC. In terms of weight (camcorder only), the HV20 is 18.9 oz and the HV10 is 15.5 oz.

Kind of a homely looking camera but the controls are probably a little better to handle than the HV10. Man, I don't see why the HV10 could not have had the 24 fps in 60i in the first place. That's really messed up Canon! Oh well.

The translation is very bad, but check this out:

If it chooses the frame rate of 24 scenes and photographs with cinema mode, image expression of cinema pitch is possible easily. Child way memory like the one scene of the movie it can leave.

There is no way this records 24f, if it does I would buy at least two, I can't wait to see the real specs in english.

The biggest thing I would like as an improvement is better lowlight and from the looks of this, it has better controls. Possibly an iris, zoom and focus controller on the side. Nice touch. I am excited about this little cam, even though I just bought the HV10 a few days ago.

It also says the lux rating is at 3 (when the shutter is at 1/30) which isn't shabby at all.

I wonder what else Canon has in store at the $1,500-$2,500 mark.

I compared the google-translated spec pages for the HV20 and the HV10, and both say "Scanning system: progressive", so don't get hopes up there.

THe HV20 light sensitivity is apparently 3lux (vs 5lux for hv10), roughly same for night mode...

lens is 43mm not 37mm(hv10)...

AE function has Cinema mode, something about 24f, prob as noted below...

mic input (plus adv. hotshoe, shows light as well), headphone output doubling on the A/V output

HDMI output (apparently still has component out also, but for the Japanese "D" plug version, I would assume US version would have Y/Pr/Pb plugs as now)

Appears to have lower power usage (4.5w rec w/ LCD vs 5w, playback 3.6w w/ LCD vs 4.3w p);
this appears to reflect MUCH better battery life: almost 2x?
?typical near 2hrs record time for HDV record (vf or lcd), vs HV10's 1hr 10min...
larger 214 batt is 2:30ish instead of 2hrs..


Hard to see on the fast flash animation, but looks like the more standard horizontal form-factor controls, like my old Optura Pi, eg zoom control on top rear nicely under index finger, w/ still pic button next to it etc... top dial seems to pic scene mode, rather than a menu?

Looks like some scroll dial/menu button (or manual focus??) is on the left front near lens barrel, by a backlit button. Function & set buttons are on the back face w/ record button. Looks like the set button, is actually a 4-way joystick type thing?

Card vs tape switch is on the right rear side, I think next to auto/P mode switch?

That is great that the lux rating has been improved so much. Hopefully it isn't just marketing, considering that it uses the same sensor and same optics.

With that rating it would probably be nipping at the heels of my A1, and with the possibility of 24f? This camera would be one of the best selling cameras of all time. It looks like they took care of most of the limitations of the HV10 and upgraded the entire cam, at a lower price.

I compared the google-translated spec pages for the HV20 and the HV10, and both say "Scanning system: progressive", so don't get hopes up there.

But progressive is what we want! On that page where they talk about the cinema mode there is a footnote that says:

"*Converted to 60i, it is recorded"

Since the camera can only record in 60i, I take that to mean they are adding pulldown to get the 24P into 60i as the sensor is natively progressive. But this is purely speculation based on sketchy translations so who knows, maybe I'm wrong and it's just some "cinema-like" gimmick effect instead of true 24P acquisition. If it really does do 24P in 60i and all you have to do is remove the pulldown, this would be huge news for all the XH-A1/G1 shooters. Not only do you get a cheap deck, you get a cheap B camera that could match the same motion cadence as if filming in 24F.

It seems likely the lens is the same since the sensor size, focal length range and aperture are all identical (not very wide at all). It's just the filter mounting ring is larger. They do say it has 15 zoom speeds while on the Canon USA site they say the HV10 only has 5 zoom speeds.

This camera on a Merlin--mind-blowing. Much better form factor for this use than the HV10.

This will cut into the FX-7 sales if it does 24f and is so cheap. It would even cut into the A1 sales a bit.

Does this use the same batteries as the HV10?

Typically, how long does it take for canon Japanese camcorders to reach our market? Two weeks, two months,..never?

With the HDMI output - a good fast laptop in your rucksack and a HDMI capture card like the 'black magic' - you can capture full 1920*1080 straight from the sensor without HDV compression.

Do the black magic cards come in an "external" version for use with laptops?

Wow, perfect! A optura look-alike!

And 24F? Never saw that coming!

Do the black magic cards come in an "external" version for use with laptops?

I asked the same question a while back and I was told there was an 'external' or 'breakout box' HDMI interface - not sure if it was from black magic or not ?

The HDMI port is on the back of the camcorder which is nice. Also there is a focus assist button on the LCD bezel. Wonder how this works.

On the Internet there are reports that this camera is actually recording true 24p (in a 60i stream of course) video because it has a progressive imager. Similar to 24f but actually 24p, that would be something if it turns out to be true. Also reports say the cinematic mode and 24p mode can be used together or each separately. Again, we'll see.

it's 24p using 2:3 pull down.

Camcorderinfo has it on their front page.

This camera could be as big as when the digital Rebel was released into the DSLR market.

I was going to get the Sony HC7, but now I have to wait till March.

-Kris G

Kris, it does seem it is true 24p as stated by Canon in their press release, I did see the CI report but was waiting for the Canon press release before I got my hopes up. I was looking at the HC7 or the HV10 and boy am I glad I waited.

Microphone input, HDMI, HV10 image quality with better low light, 24p, among other features. And a low, low, low price. Exciting.

Here's a full copy of the Canon USA press release, Wes:

http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/canon/hv20pressrelease.php

Even if the 24P is recorded into 60i I'm sure if I mind very much. With HDMI we should be able to in theory get a full raster 1920x1080 image at 4:2:2 color and 24p sitting in 60i. We would then just need to remove the pulldown via either software or a product such as Cineform. This is the only HDV camera on the market that can offer this level of quality in a studio environment.

Does anybody know if this camera or the HV10 had a sharpness setting to reduce the electronic sharpening? If it does this could very well be the ultimate keying camera.

Thanks for posting that Chris. I like the fact that the 24p recording mode and cine mode seem to be seperate features.

Thomas, I agree about the in-camera sharpening. My Canon point and shoot digital camera has a low-sharpening filter, not sure what it's actually doing but the images are absolutely stunning. Being able to turn down or off the sharpening on the HV20 would be pretty handy. There appears to be a low sharpening filter on the HV10 but I don't know what it actually does. The HV10 manual simply says "Records subjects with softened outlines".

Wow................. :-)

This looks like the year consumer HD finally 'gets real'.

Big congrats to Canon
JohnG

Canon's website comparison lists the HV20 having "Manual Focus Assist Functions: Magnifying, Peaking" and the HV10 not having this. Does this explain the focus assist button on the LCD bezel, would seam so. Lens and LCD seem to be exactly the same. HV10 is .97 lb, HV20 is 1.2 lbs. The HV10 comes with the BP-310 battery and the HV20 comes with the BP-2L13, both come with the same power supply.

I love this company. First the XH A1 to totally blow out the 3-4K pro level. Now this thing to button up the bottom end.

I knew Canon was up to something when they released the Optura 40 - no one could touch the manual audio controls, focus ring and 1/3" sensor in such an affordable package. Canon is consistently releasing cameras that appear to pack as much punch as they can squeeze in for the best price possible. Its really refreshing to see a manufacturer listen to customers and deliver outstanding product rather than putting product divisions first to protect higher priced models.

I am so getting one of these later this year.

One of the great things is, we will be able to use a 1/24th shutter to get even more light.

For a consumer cam, this is nearly flawless.
From a professional standpoint, it will be able to keep up with the big boys. From specs alone, the resolution will be as good as the XLH1, and the lowlight almost as good.

This is revolutionary in every aspect, it looks like they are somewhat applying Apples busines model of performance/price/quality for every market segment. They will clean house with this, no other manufacturer can even come close to this right now.

I am sure that Panasonic has something up their sleeves (Hybrid DVC30-DVX100 with HD with 24p mpeg-4) but they were probably looking at a $2,500-$3,500 price point for a camcorder like that. This quickly forces the price down, or requires manufacturers to pack in all the features they can imagine to compete.

Does this mean that we will be seeing 1/2 to 2/3 Cmos chips in the sub $10,000 range within the next few years?

Does this mean that we will be seeing 1/2 to 2/3 Cmos chips in the sub $10,000 range within the next few years?

that would be nice.. with variable frame rates :)

With this new cam...there really are no more excuses.

There are going to be a lot less inane discussion threads about needing film look, widescreen, microphone input, HD and which cam can do this at this price...etc etc.

Another hidden benefit of this cam! :-)

Agreed... they basically addressed every complaint so far re the HV10.
Form factor/button layout, mic in/hotshoe, low light, battery life, HDMI, 24p ... all apparently fixed.
And still great price. (Circuit City leaked page listed $1100.)

My only complaint now is that I want to buy it , but I already paid first-adopter price for the HV10! sigh :)

These camcorders hold their value very well. I'm sure you could sell your HV10 and not be out that much money. That's what I would do.

These camcorders hold their value very well. I'm sure you could sell your HV10 and not be out that much money. That's what I would do.
Well, we'll see if you're right. Mine's going up today, with a Mack warranty.

What is the button 'BLC' on the front. Also, is there a custom button on this as well.

Does anyone know if the focus wheel can be used for iris and zoom?

BLC is a backlight function if I'm not mistaken.

One has to wonder how Sony is going to respond to this. First, the A1 seems to have blown the V1 out of the water, and now this camera looks to be an HC7 killer ...

Frankly, this HV20 sounds too good to be true. There has to be a catch.

There's always a catch! The bummers for me are: no 30p, which for me personally would be much more useful than 24p; no LANC jack (would have been really surprised if it had one), AAS incompatibility with the Canon MA-300 XLR audio block, and the tape-based media. There's nothing wrong with HDV, but I'm ready for solid state or disc-based recording. Too bad it ain't ready for me though.

I've often wondered why they can't just put a high-speed SD card slot in there and give the user the ability to record the HDV stream right to an SD card. Would SDHC be required? The cards are very affordable.

The catch may be that the 24p may not be all that easy to deal with if we want a true 24p edit. There is no mention if flags are used at all so it may just be a raw 24p in 60i with no easy way to remove the pulldown.

This of course isn't that big of a deal. I'm sure Cineform we be able to deal with it and some of us used to working with uncompressed footage are used to removing the pulldown via extra software anyways.

I could be wrong and the 24p could be written to tape as a true 24p video with pulldown flags but I doubt it since they mention 3:2 pulldown and 60i.

There is also the chroma pattern issue where 24F will have a better form of 4:2:0 chroma compared to the 24p from the HV20. Of course if you plan on using live HDMI then none of this is really a concern anyways.

I'm really surprised there is no 30p. Since the chip is progressive I would think it would have been easier to do 30p then 24p. Of course I'm not complaining at all. This camera is great and I am already getting ready to sell my HC1 on Ebay. I mostly use it for vacations with my wife but the HV20 may become my new studio cam for bluescreen work.

None of the above is a complaint in any way shape or form and I am very excited about this camera. Anybody want to buy a HC1?

I am not 100% positive, but I dont think that HDV needs pulldown flag, only 24 frames are used in the codec, to optimize compression; when converting to SD however, in cam should provide the pulldown for DV. This shoudl work without a hitch when editing.

That is the way 24F works on the pro Canon cameras. But this may be different because they mention recording it as a 60i video. This is why 24F and 30F material doesn't playback from other HDV equipment because it uses a form of mpeg-2 encoding that isn't part of the normal HDV spec. The HV20 however may try to conform to the HDV spec kind of like the SONY V1U which also encodes as 60i but uses flags. We do not yet know if the HV20 will use flags or not. This mode could be designed just to give people the look of 24p and not so much have been intended to edit 24p. I don't really care which way they did it because anything is great. If they did add flags or used the true 24p encoding to tape I will kiss Canon.

The only camcorder that has a slight chance of competing against the FX7 is the JVC Everio GZ-HD7 because the manual features are very similar.

The HV20’s main competition is the Sony HC7. Now that is a comparison that I want to see.

<snip>
I'm really surprised there is no 30p. Since the chip is progressive I would think it would have been easier to do 30p then 24p.<snip>

I wonder if clocking a 1920x1080 sensor progressively at 30fps was just a bit too much. Perhaps there were overheating issues like those that have limited affordable progressive CCDs to relatively low pixel counts? JVC couldn't get their 1280x720 sensor to run progressively without essentially cutting it in half, the HVX is 960x540 so it comes in under the apparently current 1K limit and Canon's 1440x1080 sensors are interlaced. Considering the current state of affairs, it seems pretty ground breaking to bring out any progressive scan frame rate from an affordable 1920x1080 sensor.

In any event, this thing is just cool. With the exception of losing the focus ring, this is essentially the dream HDV Optura I'd always hoped for. The $1099 price is just the icing on the cake. Canon has gone beyond any reasonable expectation here.

This thing is going to sell like crazy.

THe HV20 light sensitivity is apparently 3lux (vs 5lux for hv10), roughly same for night mode...



How is a 40% improvement in low-light 'roughly the same'????

Even if the 24P is recorded into 60i I'm sure if I mind very much. With HDMI we should be able to in theory get a full raster 1920x1080 image at 4:2:2 color and 24p sitting in 60i. We would then just need to remove the pulldown via either software or a product such as Cineform. This is the only HDV camera on the market that can offer this level of quality in a studio environment.

Does anybody know if this camera or the HV10 had a sharpness setting to reduce the electronic sharpening? If it does this could very well be the ultimate keying camera.

Yes Tom, the HV10 does have a sharpness setting that I'm sure will be carried over to the HV20. At its default settings the HV10 show FAR less electronic sharpening than even the Sony A1/FX7. This is one of the things that's always impressed me about the HV10 image....superb detail without artificial sharpness. The HV20 will be one very exciting camera!

Ken, can you tell us what it's called in the menu? Is it just an on/off feature or are there mutiple sharpness settings?

Ken, can you tell us what it's called in the menu? Is it just an on/off feature or are there mutiple sharpness settings?

It is in 'Image effect' then go to custom, here you will find controls for Brightenss, contrast, sharpness and colour depth.

There are mutiple increments for each.

That's good to know Lee, thanks.

What is the button 'BLC' on the front.

It will produce a toasted Bacon, Lettuce and Cheese sandwich from the tape bay.

In the PAL version this is likely to be Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato.

THe HV20 light sensitivity is apparently 3lux (vs 5lux for hv10), roughly same for night mode...

How is a 40% improvement in low-light 'roughly the same'????

The translated spec text from Canon japan said 3 (vs 5) lux for regular shooting modes;
but in night mode (eg slow-shutter speed I assume), they said .2lux, vs HV10 specs said .3lux.
I figured & meant to comment that .1 lux isn't much difference, for THAT spec.
Clearly 3 vs 5 is a big improvement & I'm happy w/ that (more important) spec.

I should have put a semi-colon in my statement to separate the two sets of specs more clearly, sorry!

Ken, can you tell us what it's called in the menu? Is it just an on/off feature or are there mutiple sharpness settings?

It's a setting in the custom menu, aptly named 'sharpness'. ;)

It has 3 positions: Default, + and -