Hi all. . .

I know a lot of people are using shotgun microphones, and they may be better for filming than my Schoeps CMC6 mikes (with cardioid capsules), but I'd like to save some money. How would you recommend I boom these mikes?

What booms, mounts (I currently have the standard plastic Schoeps mounts), and wind protection would you recommend for these mikes? (The CMC6s are pretty small microphones!)

If you think that the CMC6s aren't going to work really well for me, please recommend a specific microphone that YOU would like to use on a feature film.

Thanks much.

Stephen

Hi all. . .

I know a lot of people are using shotgun microphones, and they may be better for filming than my Schoeps CMC6 mikes (with cardioid capsules), but I'd like to save some money. How would you recommend I boom these mikes?

What booms, mounts (I currently have the standard plastic Schoeps mounts), and wind protection would you recommend for these mikes? (The CMC6s are pretty small microphones!)

If you think that the CMC6s aren't going to work really well for me, please recommend a specific microphone that YOU would like to use on a feature film.

Thanks much.

Stephen

You're already half-way there. Arguably the standard boom mic in feature and broadcast sound today is the Schoeps CMC 641 hypercardioid, used both indoors and out. The classic shotgun might be the Sennheiser MKH416 but that is mostly useful outdoors only. Not to say there aren't a number of others from Sanken, Sennheiser, Audio-Technica that are also strong contenders. For that matter, the Schoeps CMIT shotgun would be worthy of consideration, especially since it's designed to match well to the sound qualities of the CMC series. So for your first boom mic I'd say get an MK41 hypercardioid capsule to mount on the amplifier in place of one of your present cardioid capsules and you've got it.

K-Tek makes outstandings boom and mounts, Rycote is a leader in windwhielding.

Thanks for the tips, Steve. . .

Since I have a pair of CMC6s, would I want to use two different booms or just one with some sort of a stereo mount?

Does the MK41 make that much of a difference vis-a-vis the MK4???

Thanks very much!

Stephen

Depends on what the staging of the scene is and the geographic relationship between the subjects. If you have two people standing facing each other (even cheated slightly for camera), you could mount them perpendicular to one another and shock mount them separately to be able to hold them on a single boom...if the staging is more dynamic, 2 booms may be necessary.

Thanks for the tips, Steve. . .

Since I have a pair of CMC6s, would I want to use two different booms or just one with some sort of a stereo mount?

Does the MK41 make that much of a difference vis-a-vis the MK4???

Thanks very much!

Stephen

Dialog is almost always recorded in mono, so you'd only use one. And yes, there is a great deal of difference between a hyper and a plain cardioid. A hyper is almost as directional as a shotgun though with a somewhat shorter reach. But unlike shotguns, it's not as susceptible to colouration in a reflective environment such as indoors in normal rooms. You could use both at once if you have two booms and two operators to handle them but that would be overkill in normal circumstances. OTOH, if you were recording music in stereo, using both of your cardioids on a stand in a stereo array would be an excellent approach. Definitely keep the MK4 capsules because there'll be time you want to use the hyper and there'll be other times where the cardioids will be just the ticket.

Wow, Steve. . . I just about fell out of my chair! I know I'm a total noobie, but that really surprises me!

Dialog is usually recorded only in mono??? What about the ambient sounds all around the actors??? I would think that you'd want all that in stereo. I'm not going to be able to recreate these sounds at a later point in time. It's the shots and that's pretty much it.

I would think that just one mike would really make for a very one-dimensional sound track.

Boy, have I got a lot to learn.

:-(

Stephen

Actually, when recording dialog, you don't want anything other than just the dialog...no ambience at all is ideal...all of that you add later in post as part of the *very* controlled soundscape. That way, nothing interrupts your dialog from being clear...I have brilliant clips from non-actors that I have to ADR over due to a couple harley's driving by during a line or two of dialog while shooting, didn't notice it on the set (not enough crew to keep track of it) and can't reshoot it as the place has changed ownership since and hairstyles changed afterwards etc... Each piece you capture should be pristine...both image and sound.

This is just blowing me away.

Can you gentlemen recommend a book on cinema sound that might be particularly helpful.

I just can't imagine not capturing the ambience for my film project. It would seem that I'd have to record each scene twice in order to have any hope of making it sound "real."

What a total bummer.

:-(

Stephen

Wow, Steve. . . I just about fell out of my chair! I know I'm a total noobie, but that really surprises me!

Dialog is usually recorded only in mono??? What about the ambient sounds all around the actors??? I would think that you'd want all that in stereo. ...
Stephen

The final track ends up stereo but very little of it is actually originally recorded in stereo, the major exceptions being music performance, some environmental recordings, and perhaps some foley effects. In features and episodic TV virtually every sound the audience hears is consciously placed during post production, all of the various pieces being assembled one piece at a time into a cohesive whole. For example, you definitely record ambience or 'room tone' on the set but when you do, that's ALL that is being recorded - the set is silent (one trick when recording in camera is to shoot a nice closeup of the microphone to identify the shot as an ambience track). The dialog is recorded as cleanly as possible. Later in post, the ambience is laid down on its own track alongside the dialog and mixed in under it, carefully adjusting levels so it comes up slightly during pauses in speech and dips down when the actors are speaking. Door sounds, footsteps, ice clinking in glasses, virtually everything that is audible, is laid down just as purposely. And of course part of that precise placement is not only when it all occurs and how loud it is but also its position in the L-R soundstage. There's a 'pan' control on every mixer channel that can take a mono track and place it anywhere from full left to full right and anywhere in between in the final stereo track.

Book recomendations - I'd start with Jay Rose's 2 books "Getting Great Sound for Digital Video" and "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video." Thomlinson Holman's book "Sound for Digital Video" is outstanding (he's the guru behind Lucas Sound and is the 'TH' in 'THX' ). Another great book for practical location work, such nitty-gritty as how to set up levels, where the boom mic should be aimed, etc, is Dean Miles "Location Audio Simplified."

currently working my way through "Audio/Vision" by Chion and "Sound Design" by Sonnenschein. They seem very good, the first is more theory and the second is more technical :)

Depending on the type of project you're doing...I always build dialog from the pieces of each take that fits well with the story. The editor's job is to make the actors look better than they are (ask any BIG name hollywood star, they'll tell you - maybe ;) ).

I try to get ensemble sound (both or more actors at the same time) when I shoot wider shots, but when I shoot tighter, I direct the mic as close to the actor I'm shooting as possible. That way, I get pristine sound of that performance of that actor...I also use the Singles as a chance to dial in different readings of some of the key lines in a script...have them repeat it in different ways to give me choices in editing.

I use an Audio-Technica ATR55, cheap but workable. Currently, my connection setup to get it into my camera leaves it quite noisy...so I have to do tons of post work to clean the buzz out of it.

Shoot test, see what works and what doesn't, then ask questions. Once you shoot some/record some, you will have much more focussed questions. Write a 2 or 3 page script...doesn't need to be good at all, shoot it, figure out what works and what doesn't...shooting that should take a day or less when you start out. Work on just getting it "in the can" to start out. Then pick one thing to improve on and write another 2-3 page script and do it all over again...lather rinse repeat. Improve one thing at a time. Come back here with questions.

MY GOSH, guys! This is utterly bizarre!

How on earth can you ever get everything synched up???

My head is spinning. . . just when I think I'm getting closer, the goal-line moves another 30 yards back.

:-(

I'm ordering those books today!

Thanks again! (I think.)

:-)

Stephen

to synch separately recorded sound, you make a sharp noise on camera that you can see in frame and that is audible in the audio (this is what the slate board is for-along with giving shot information)...Any thing like two sticks hit together or a marker on a clip board, or a clap. You then line up the spike in the audio waveform of the audio with the motion in the clip.

If you record straight into your camera, you don't need to worry about synch as much...it's already in lock step with the camera.

That's not quite what I was asking, Cole. . .

Let's say you are doing a scene at a dinner party or at a restaurant. How on earth could you ever hope to capture that without getting the ambient sounds AND the dialog at the same time? And, even if you COULD get just the voices, how on earth would you ever be able to synch in sound effects for all of the clinks, chomps, etc., from the dishes and glasses and silverware???

If it was me doing a dinner party scene without any expertise at all (my current state of affairs), I'd fly about four or five microphones over the table and then run them all into a mixer and record all four or five tracks on a hard-drive (one track per microphone). Then, using your clapboard technique, I could synch all the sounds and build the sound file up in post using those four or five tracks, varying the levels as need be. But at least they would be the exact same sounds that corresponded to my video at the dinner party. Since I have the microphones and sound recording gear already, the added expense is quite low (a few new booms).

Obviously, I can't wait to read those books! I ordered four of 'em and they are already on their way!

Thanks again.

Stephen

Thanks for the tips, Steve. . .

Since I have a pair of CMC6s, would I want to use two different booms or just one with some sort of a stereo mount?

Does the MK41 make that much of a difference vis-a-vis the MK4???

Thanks very much!

Stephen

Yes, the MK 41 is the one you want for location audio. The MK 4 is too wide.

That's not quite what I was asking, Cole. . .

Let's say you are doing a scene at a dinner party or at a restaurant. How on earth could you ever hope to capture that without getting the ambient sounds AND the dialog at the same time? And, even if you COULD get just the voices, how on earth would you ever be able to synch in sound effects for all of the clinks, chomps, etc., from the dishes and glasses and silverware???


In film shooting, much if not all of teh background sound is recreated in post (as has been said here.) Those sounds are added by a Foley artist. It's a very cool craft.


If it was me doing a dinner party scene without any expertise at all (my current state of affairs), I'd fly about four or five microphones over the table and then run them all into a mixer and record all four or five tracks on a hard-drive (one track per microphone). Then, using your clapboard technique, I could synch all the sounds and build the sound file up in post using those four or five tracks, varying the levels as need be. But at least they would be the exact same sounds that corresponded to my video at the dinner party. Since I have the microphones and sound recording gear already, the added expense is quite low (a few new booms).


Wouldn't work you couldn't hope to isolate the sounds you wanted into each mic.


Obviously, I can't wait to read those books! I ordered four of 'em and they are already on their way!

Thanks again.

Stephen

Mine might be useful as well.

Regards,

Ty Ford

That's not quite what I was asking, Cole. . .

Let's say you are doing a scene at a dinner party or at a restaurant. How on earth could you ever hope to capture that without getting the ambient sounds AND the dialog at the same time? And, even if you COULD get just the voices, how on earth would you ever be able to synch in sound effects for all of the clinks, chomps, etc., from the dishes and glasses and silverware???

...

You have the people in the background silently mime conversation rather than speaking normally and you use directional mics that are boomed as close as possible to the talent without intruding into the frame or perhaps concealed lav mics in their costume, during the shot nobody moves except the characters in frame and those members of the crew who have to move to follow action. In your restaurant or dinner party example, any of the background people who aren't actually in frame at some point in the shot are either motionless and silent or more likely they clear the set entirely. On a professional set nothing is left to chance. When you watch 'CSI,' for example, remind yourself that every single recognizable person you see in the scene, foreground or background, be it one of the principle characters or the kid riding his bike down the street in the background as the Hummer squeals around the corner, is an actor specifically placed in the scene.

Oh, man. This is obviously VERY bad news for me. . . I had utterly no idea.

Frankly, there is absolutely no way I'll be able to shoot my feature like that. . . I've only got 30 days to shoot. . . a very small crew. . . and limited time at each public location.

I'll just have to use hyper overkill on the flying or lav microphones and record 8 audio tracks at once on the mixer/recorder and then attempt to put something useable that way in post.

Too bad my budget is only going to be $50,000. . . and $10,000 of that is for equipment.

:-(

Stephen

Well, Ty. . . perhaps your book, which I just ordered. . . will help me find a reasonable way out of this box.

I don't when I've been so bummed since starting this crazy venture.

:-(

Stephen

We'll go back to my budget on my feature, $200...just tape stock. College acting students are good sources of actors who will act for experience/screen credits. Local community theater groups as well, many of them want the experience of acting for camera to get that experience as opposed to the linear quality of stage. Pizza and soda can be traded for screen credit from local restaurants (mom and pop shops are easier to approach as they generally have less to spend on advertising). Food keeps your actors happy. Free food keeps your budget happy. You're thinking like a hollywood studio filmmaker (on offense, I'd love that job)...think more indie! Most of what you need, you can get for free/screen credit with a nice smile, some sweet talking and a handshake. Stop thinking about spending money and start thinking about spending time up front to save money. Time = Money, spend the time not the money. The more work you do before shoot day 1, the less money you'll have to spend to get the piece made. With $50,000, I could've landed actors on the moon (you know...the soundstage in nevada where they faked the landings ;) ).

You may be able to get more than you you think. First, you can get the Mk 41 capsules (you have the 4, right?)

As you shoot, make sure you wear headphones so you hear EXACTLY what you get. If it doesn't sound right. You need to shoot again.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Well, I'm definitely going to give it the old college try. . . since I'm coming at this game straight out of the audio recording business (my first CD is coming out soon), I MAY be able to do this better than someone without such experience.

Cole:

Sadly, my $50,000 feature budget only includes $7,000 for actor payments. $10,000 is for equipment (above and beyond the $30,000 I've already spent). $5000 is for unknown emergency items. $5000 is allocated to buy consulting talent to help us set things up as well as possible in the early days of the shoot. A big chunk of the of rest is being eaten up by the purchase of things seen onscreen (like payments to use specific locations, a car to drive and wreck, insurance, etc.). It goes really quickly. I just hope I don't find too many other nasty surprises or there goes the budget.

But I'm a pretty driven guy. . . Lord willing, I'll get this done.

Stephen