Looking to possibly purchase a used HD1a, or perhaps a new HD2 when they are released for use as an in-car camera.

It would be mounted in a rally car, so lots of vibration and action, the other cam I am looking at is the HV10.

There was a clip posted in this forum a while back of a HD1 mounted in an airplane, looking out of the side of the cockpit, it seemed to look very nice.

My concern is the Sayno's ability to deal with vibration and fast moving action without breaking up.

Certainly it would be better quality than the 520 line lipstick cameras I would usually use?

This interests me for a normal car, and docos. There was footage on an BMX dirt bike here, pretty woeful. You would need to totally isolate from vibration, and then the low frame rate and low bit rate/long gop is going to make an lot of frames look really fuzzy (the GOP frames will look alright).

Samsung had announced an H264 17mb/s 720p60 camera that could have been a lot better (with all the vibration isolation) that got delayed and disappeared. I suspect that there will be a number of such cameras this year.

The big problem, apart from vibration, is that most of these cameras use inter-fame compression like the Canon. Unless you have a very high bitrate intra-frame compression will be prone to not enough bit rate to do the frames in between the Gops. What is best is a Intra frame compressed camera that compresses the frames separately, like the HVX200 (or the h264 replacement) but big expensive and I doubt they would like the vibration.

So, the Canon might be the best bet, until somebody starts releasing a descent H264 camera with at least 18mb/s 720p

Hi Matt,

A number of people have experienced a malfunction where the display works and screen data shows, but no image is present. I expect this malfunction would be likely to happen to you if vibration was not effectively managed as Wayne suggests. With most cameras, you could create your mount and test to see the vibration in the video, adjusting your mount until you are satisfied. I don't know that the HD1 would survive the process. If you do choose an HD1, I would recommend you find an effective test for the mount that controls your risk factor.

Hey, a friend of mine recently used a high quality lipstick cam for a production shoot that he got from a company called jonescam. He said that it worked well and produced DVD quality video. Aparently the LX system from that company has a small camera head (about the size of lipstick) that connects to a CCU (about the size of a deck of cards) and records video to a portable DVR. He said that it is also capable of white balance and manual focus. If you want more quality than 520 lines of res., then these guys might be worth a look.

www.jonescam.tv

Actually I've seen a sample clip by someone who strapped a HD1 to his mountain bike somewhere on the web. I just can't find it anymore. Video quality actually wasn't that bad.

Don't know how long a HD1 will last in those conditions though.

Kaku was the person doing it, and he posted links in one thread here which you can search for. He was supposed to be doing an review of an new AVCHD camera by now, but have not heard back from him.

I just recently used my hd1 in a variety of car mount situations. It performed spectacularly. I chickened out when it came to using the HVX so I went with the little guy. The best thing about this small cam is it's low mass. A relatively lightweight car-mount will do a great job. In one shot you can see the back tire going berzerk but the cam is locked on the car with no discernible vibration. The fact that it has few moving parts is also a bonus. Good Luck.

Kaku was the person doing it, and he posted links in one thread here which you can search for. He was supposed to be doing an review of an new AVCHD camera by now, but have not heard back from him.
Here is the Kaku Ito Mountain bike footage using a Sanyo Xacti HD1
http://xtream.ne.jp/kakugyo/affordableHDstudy/VideoPodcast/197F05DD-56CC-49EB-A5E8-7979451DC235_files/crashcamlarge.mov

Here you go.
http://www.onebikeguy.com/Kakugyo/HD1000/Pages/onboard.html

This is mounted on my air suspended mountainbike, so I would say on a car, the small vibration probably won't happen as much as this clip.

I had a Canon HV20 and was never happy with the footage when mounted in my 350Z. I just got a Sanyo HD1000 and so far it looks like it will do a better job. Also have the Aiptk A-HD and for the money it is decent. Here is a short clip with a download for the HD version: http://sanyoxactiusers.com/forum/index.php?topic=12.0

http://www.cruisecam.com/mounts.html

for under 100 bucks, you can't beat this product. I know a couple of news photogs who use this in their vehicles while they drive out to stories and such, to catch responding emergency vehicles and what not, and oh yeah, stupid drivers =-D

Hi Matt,

A number of people have experienced a malfunction where the display works and screen data shows, but no image is present. I expect this malfunction would be likely to happen to you if vibration was not effectively managed as Wayne suggests. With most cameras, you could create your mount and test to see the vibration in the video, adjusting your mount until you are satisfied. I don't know that the HD1 would survive the process. If you do choose an HD1, I would recommend you find an effective test for the mount that controls your risk factor.
This is a mechanical problem with the shutter that closes over the sensor when the camera is powered off and, certainly on earlier versions, can get sticky due to internal oil residue. It's happened on mine once, when I did not use it for some months, and I fixed it with a lightish bang with my hand on the right hand side while powering it up... Rally cars get lots of vibration which will probably help to keep it unstuck!

This isn't HD ..but I didn't get much visible vibrations ('least I didn't think so..) by mounting a cam on my kiteboard:

http://wetstuff.com/movie/clips_on_edge.htm

Be advised: it's pretty boooring couple of minutes to people who don't kite.

Video from a drive I did a few weeks ago.

http://www.speedandmotion.com/pages/videos/nissandrive021708.html

The in car footage is from the Sanyo HD1000. Have to say it did a good job. Much better then the Canon HV20. And the built in mic was decent.

Duane: What sort of mount did you use? ...gave me an idea to make one that velcro-wraps the head rest like I do the center tube on a kitesurfing kite. ..won't work on a Porsche as they use those stoopid-looking one-piece seats.

I also noticed that the focus seemed to be on the base of windshield/wipers, no? Is there a way to focus on the car in front of you?

Here's a car vid that I've been pimping ..maybe I like the music, as I've been flamed for my taste in video?!

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=409844

j i m

Jim, I made a mount with a piece of square aluminum tubing that attaches to where the passenger headrest goes in my 350Z (similar to this http://www.filmtools.com/cruisecam1.html). I have two mounts on it, one for front, one for back. When I get I chance I will take a picture of it. For your Porsche you might try one of the various suction mounts.

Yes, the focus was off. I had it set on the 9-AF, and I think the S-AT (spot) might work better.

Is that your video on rennlist? IMO the HV20 does not like vibration. I tried mine a few times and the footage was never that good. The Sanyo HD1000 seems to work much better.

.......No - not my video; young fellow from Chicago. I'm not that creative either - even if it's a copy of a well worn theme.

I did buy the same suction mount he used from Film Tools. I plan on using one on a rowing shell or kitesurfing kiteboard.

Jim

Here are some clips with the HD1000 on two different mounts.

http://www.speedandmotion.com/pages/mounttest/index.html

My partner just picked up two mounts from Film Tools and he says they are great.

I like those - I especially like how the mind fools oneself with the sensation of speed - cam low on the deck - when the lack of wind noise tells you otherwise. (I can only imagine what the Street Luge guys feel, eh?!)



j i m

Thanks. I think the thing to do is to use an external mic wiith a long cable and put it inside the car or behind where the wind noise won't be an issue.

Hey Duane,

Were those Sanyo HD1000 videos shot at 30fps or 60fps? Also, was the EIS on or off?


- Frank.

Hey Duane,

Were those Sanyo HD1000 videos shot at 30fps or 60fps? Also, was the EIS on or off?


- Frank.

I used the HD-HR setting, 1280x720 60p with EIS on.

Tried something different. Used the HD1000 on a suction mount and put it on the back hatch of my 350Z. I then used an external mic and attached it the the rear bumper just above the license plate. I think it did a good job cutting down wind noise there. But the HD1000 still picked up a good deal of vibration.

http://www.speedandmotion.com/pages/cameratests/sanyorear.html

Here is a good comparison of the Sanyo HD1000 and the Canon VH20.

http://www.speedandmotion.com/pages/grandprixlongbeach/drivetotheraces.html

The Canon is the forward facing camera and the Sanyo is the rear (the side facing camera is a Panasonic GS250).

I have found most of the MPEG recorders a bit soft when subjected to footage that has a bit of shake. Currently I am using the nNovia recorders which use the DV codec for SD footage. The Chasecam recorder is very good for a MPEG recorder. They have a very short GOP and handle rapid changes much better.

You can see the in-car stuff we did for the 2007 Onelap here:
http://2007oloa.blip.tv/?sort=date;view=archive;date=;user=2007oloa;s=posts;nsfw=dc;page=1

Chris, very nice footage.

The nNovia systems look very nice buy not cheap. How do they handle the vibrations from a car with the hard drives?

How do you like the Chasecam recorder? Which camera did you use with it?

Chris, very nice footage.

The nNovia systems look very nice buy not cheap. How do they handle the vibrations from a car with the hard drives?

How do you like the Chasecam recorder? Which camera did you use with it?

Thanks Duane,

The nNovia recorders with the standard hard drives have limitations with vibration. The solid state mediapacs work fine. Less recording time and much higher cost though. I've found that a padded bag strapped down in the car is enough to get good results with the hard drives in everything but a seriously modified Viper or purpose build race cars. Those take more effort but we get most of those to work too. I have one solid state mediapac for that special occasion when the spinning drives just won't work. I've not found a time when the solid state pac didn't work EXCEPT for the one car that could brake so hard that the pac would actually dislodge from the recorder. Now that was serious Gs. A piece of foam kept it in place on the next try. I've been able to keep the cameras on the cars fine at over 175mph. The biggest problem is not damaging the body work of the car with the suction cups.

I did like the chasecam recorder. Its VERY small and the quality was pretty good. Not as good as the nNovia recorders but the price for the quality is VERY good for the Chasecam DVR.

I'm using the Viosport Adventurecam3 cameras. I've considered moving to the POV1 from Viosport but I'm waiting to see a HD setup that I can put on the car. I was checking out all the small stuff at NAB and the prices are still too high for my budget. This video seems to be good enough for SD network broadcast. The days of SD are numbered though. I hope I can afford it by the time its mandatory for me.

If I'm shooting from inside the car itself I sometimes use the Sony HC3 with the wide angle lens recording to the nNovia DVR. I try hard to not deal with tape these days but thats a conversation for another thread.

I'm using the Viosport Adventurecam3 cameras. I've considered moving to the POV1 from Viosport but I'm waiting to see a HD setup that I can put on the car. I was checking out all the small stuff at NAB and the prices are still too high for my budget. This video seems to be good enough for SD network broadcast. The days of SD are numbered though. I hope I can afford it by the time its mandatory for me.


Chris, I just ordered the POV.1 system and will give it a try. The set up looks very good and will be easy to move from car to car. I do hope they come out with one in HD.

I have the same hope as well. Based on what I've seen at NAB the HD stuff in that form factor is going to stay very expensive for a while. :(