Hi folks,

has anyone had any experience with this matte box for the Z1 from ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Matte-box-with-Rod-support-for-100A-B-PD170-Z1E-HVR-Z1E_W0QQitemZ130069323926QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm sure that when I searched the archive a while ago I found a thread where someone said they had ordered one and was going to post their findings about this matte box but try as I might couldn't find it again. It certainly looks pretty good from the ad and at bargain price.

I recently bought a Vocas MB320 with rod support for a bargain £200 (its cosmetically damaged) from ebay only to find out that it is particularly awkward to use on the Z1: the plate is for the big Sony cameras so wont fit therefore I'd need a step-down ring to attach to the lens which is about £40... then i wouldnt be able to use the box with a wide-angle converter attached. this, plus the fact that the filter holders have to be mounted sideways so that the top tags dont hit the stupid on-board mike which means little chance of using grad filters means I'll probably resell it. Has anyone decided to hack their on-board mike off yet as i know its unremovable!!??

Cheers,

Baldwin

Baldwin,

I have purchased the Wide angle screw on matte box from this vendor, and have to say that the quality is quite OK - it's no Chrosziel, but it is only one fifth of the cost! I use it on my A1 and it works well. The vendor is excellent (very courteous and reliable) and I am also seriously considering purchasing this for my Z1 - so I too am interested in any feedback on this one.

If you decide to get one, please provide feedback - it looks very good - and at a bargain price.

All the best,

Hi folks,

has anyone had any experience with this matte box for the Z1 from ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Matte-box-with-Rod-support-for-100A-B-PD170-Z1E-HVR-Z1E_W0QQitemZ130069323926QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm sure that when I searched the archive a while ago I found a thread where someone said they had ordered one and was going to post their findings about this matte box but try as I might couldn't find it again. It certainly looks pretty good from the ad and at bargain price.



Your timing is almost perfect. I was the one that had bought the matte-box from eBay. As I live in Brazil things take a lot to get here, and they did in different times: the MB three weeks ago and the Z1 just today.

The first thing I had seen on the MB which I didn't particularly like were the three rod holders. One of them screws to the base, which adjusts to the camera you will use. It has two spring levers that grip (not too firmly) to the rods.

There are two more holders: one in the middle and one in the end. The latter screws to the sunshade, alllowing it to be held by the rods. The middle holder might be used to hold something else, but I am not sure what.

The problem is that these three parts the rods secure to are made from a rubber/plastic alloy which is not really hard. So the first thing I noticed when I assembled it all, without the camera, was that the shade end seemed to be on a spring, when it should be rock solid.

So I started to think on how to have someone mill for me these three parts on a lathe.

When the camera arrived I understood why they had used such plastic rubber alloy. In order for things to fit you HAVE to force the rods up a little bit so the shade will go into the front lens. As far as I know there's no other way to do it.

In fact there might be, but also using a lathe to mill the three holders and also drill a new hole on the base (not the camera) so everything is straight. In that way the rods will hold the MB in front of the lens, with no force over the zoom body.

This force is not great, but I don't think it's right.

After I make these parts I will probably sell the whole thing and go for a Geardear, which seems better made. Reports on that one might also be appreciated.

As it is, my comments on this eBay mattebox, get the one without the rods, which is cheaper and might work better. You may need different rings if you will use a wide angle.


Carlos

Carlo,

Is it just the rods that are the problem? Are you happy with the mattebox? Is it better than just the Z1 rubber shade (which is not too bad).

All comment would be appreciated.

All the best,

Graeme

Is it just the rods that are the problem? Are you happy with the mattebox? Is it better than just the Z1 rubber shade (which is not too bad).

The rods are fine. What I think is wrong are the pieces that connect the rods to the other parts. That is the camera base and the matte box.

What the rods should do is to hold the MB firmly and with no movement just aft the front lens. It should be precisely there. That is what the rods should do, with a little help from the other parts.

Those parts are flexible, when they shouldn't be.

Of course I amnot happy with the matte box. In spite of the flexibility I expected the MB to go exactly at the front of the lens, and it doesn't. I will have the parts milled to correct the problem. If I lived in the USA or if it was possible I would ask for my money back.

The MB itself is not bad, even if the distance between it and the mike is very critical. I already slightly scraped the black paint from the wire mesh moving the MB. But I knew that was a problem in the Z1. I just expected more precision in the parts design.

The MB should play a different role than the rubber shade, which is to hold and rotate the filters. That is why I bought it. I don't like to unscrew filters either, which you have to do if you don't have a filter holder.

And it has to allow rotation too, so you can adjust a pola-screen or a graduated ND.

So I will have to find a way to make this MB work. Which may not be easy.

Let's hope this paints you a more clear picture.

As I said before, I might be better off with a Geardear.


Carlos

my flag broke instantly, its fun to use but its no serious peice of equipment and you get some vig

Hi there

Check out the TLS matte box, similar to the Formatt.. uses a screw adapter or rods...(adapter cheaper)... (google to find their website with quick video demo)

General quality pretty good.. looks and feels solid enough.. I've had mine for about a year.

Only negative point it the French flag tends to droop if you don't use an allen key to tighten it.. the knurled knob doesn't give you enough leverage to tighten properly..

cheers
Gareth

has anyone had any experience with Panaview Schott glass filters on Ebay for $49 ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Panaview-4x4-Pro-Filter-CLEAR-Water-White-SCHOTT-GLASS_W0QQitemZ200073421451QQihZ010QQcategoryZ50535QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Check out the TLS matte box, similar to the Formatt.. uses a screw adapter or rods...(adapter cheaper)... (google to find their website with quick video demo)


Price is much more expensive than the Geardear, which deserves a view.

Thanks for the replies folks - I was very close to buying the ebay matte box but eventually found somewhere which would sell me a step-down ring for my Vocas box which works okay on my Z1 now. I guess there is no real way of solving the mike on top of the camera problem which gets in the way of the holders, except getting the hacksaw out...

on a slightly off-topic note I did buy a rain cover for the Z1 from this ebay vendor which is a nice little product and is well-priced.

thanks,

baldwin

Better late than never, we say here.

Let me get back to the eBay matte box, which I could at last find a way out to.

The first problem is that the instructions that came with are very poor, which may lead you to misunderstandings and dead ends.

The second problem is that they tried to make a camera base that could work on different cameras, and ended up with a very confusing part.

Today I picked it up again to see what parts I would need to have made to correct the problems. Then I could figure out how it should be assembled, which is certainly not as the "manual" (???) shows.

The good thing is I could get things right and in working order, tried the 4 x 4 filters, etc. It looks fine. Not perfect but alright.

It can be perfected and I might do that. The rod adjusters are made in a flexible material, and they should be rigid. I will try to have them milled in aluminium. The ring that fits over the lens is a thin rubber, and it works as a sort of "skirt" so light won't get in from behind. It should be more solid and grip the lens firmly, but that might be more difficult to achieve. As I see it this whole piece is lacking in accurate precision, which is what you get for this kind of money.

Anyway, the MB is working now, which is great news.


Carlos

Thanks for the replies folks - I was very close to buying the ebay matte box but eventually found somewhere which would sell me a step-down ring for my Vocas box which works okay on my Z1 now. I guess there is no real way of solving the mike on top of the camera problem which gets in the way of the holders, except getting the hacksaw out...

on a slightly off-topic note I did buy a rain cover for the Z1 from this ebay vendor which is a nice little product and is well-priced.

thanks,

baldwin

Actually vocas sells aluminum 4x4 filterframes with a shortened handgrip that will fit underneath the Z1's microphone.

http://www.vocas.com/links/dvaccessories-link.htm
middle of the page, look for Filter frame 4"x4" aluminum mkII item# 0310-0011.

Even if apparently there seems to be some patent problem to be solved between Vocas and this matte-box, it's being quite useful to "tune it", in order to see what I will have to look in other types on the market to improve on this one.

1) Price. This was the major thing that made me take a risk with this MB. There should be several options to pick for, starting for more affordable types. Something like a Sidewind matte-box, which is an affordable one which unfortunately can't be adapted to a Z1. As it is, I seem to feel robbed when I look at the prices asked by Century/Vocas, Chroziel and similar.

2) Precision. Rubber or flexible plastics seem to be the way to sort relative precision. This is bad for rigidity. I think some parts should be designed with more precision, even if small plate adapters might be necessary. That could make prices come down, because the parts would be used on many camera types, and still have good quality.

The problem is also the difficulty to have access to these parts in order to see what works or not, what compromise is the one you are buying.

Sometimes these compromises are easy to overcome, if you are willing to improve on the parts. But I am not sure everyone will have the same spirit that I have.

E.g.: I discovered that the filter holders of the "eBay MB" (which is made by Active Industries, in India) did not quite clamp the 4 x 4 filter. A small 1mm rubber rectangle, contact-glued to the clamp, solved the problem. Now you can shake it and the filter won't fall.

But today I set all things up on the Z1, and everything seems quite workable.

As I said, it's a good place to start from and not break your bank. I wish all other MB manufacturers, like Vocas, would think of something like that.


Carlos

Carlos,

Does this Matte box mount well on your tripod? I am using a quick release plate all of the time and take my camera on/off the tripod frequently duirng a shoot. Just wondering if there were any problems in this regard?

Thanks for your input.

Does this Matte box mount well on your tripod? I am using a quick release plate all of the time and take my camera on/off the tripod frequently duirng a shoot. Just wondering if there were any problems in this regard?

Yes, it does. But it needs some finishing. You can say that you get what you pay for, so there is one drilling you will have to do. You may get away with no drilling, but then it will be a pain to screw in the camera to the base-plate.

The problem to be solved is this: the "universal base-plate" they provide needs some thinking to make it work. When you find the way around it, you need to widen an existing hole so you can tighten the camera fixing screw.

Right by this hole is the tripod hole. To it you will screw the release plate.

After that things run very well.

In case someone buys one of this, I can help make it work. The instructions are faulty, and you will need to do some adjustments as well as several tips.

But it does work. Looks like a good tool to get started.

One last question Carlos, do you have any problems with vignetting from the "eyebrow shutters" on maximum wide angle. From your other answers I would guess that the answer is no - but I just have to check. Do you use this with any other wide angle adaptor? I have the Century 0.6X - which seems to vignette with every hood or matte box I have tried on it (and I have tried quite a few) - so I expect that this matte box would vignette with it as well, but if it does not vignette with the camera on the standard lens with maximum wide angle I would be happy.

Also what are the special instructions for assembly? Your help is much appreciated.

All the best,

One last question Carlos, do you have any problems with vignetting from the "eyebrow shutters" on maximum wide angle. From your other answers I would guess that the answer is no - but I just have to check.

Of course you should. No, no problem at all. In any case you should always open them a bit more after you see them on the VF. Just to be sure. But it's an excelent way to avoid reflections. Next best would be a bellows, which people in video do not seem to like too much.

Do you use this with any other wide angle adaptor? I have the Century 0.6X - which seems to vignette with every hood or mate box I have tried on it (and I have tried quite a few) - so I expect that this matte box would vignette with it as well, but if it does not vignette with the camera on the standard lens with maximum wide angle I would be happy.

This is great! I have just tried it with my Century 0.6x. No vignetting at all! You even have a slight adjust on the shutters you can do. The French flag will probably help with it.

In any case the lens is quite protected from upper reflections as it is. There's about a 5 cm "tunnel" of MB as it is. Reflections coming from up front are the ones the flag might cut, at 45 degrees or less.

To let the WA fit I had to unscrew the back ring in the MB, which carries the rubber donuts for the several lenses it can accomodate. Without the ring the diameter was exactly it.

This is excellent. Now I can use my 4 x 4 filters with the WA too. :)))

I was afraid to try the MB with the WA, because I also pre-supposed it wouldn't work. It certainly did.

In fact, I think the back hole was designed exactly to fit that WA lens, which is not a standard diameter. I put some transparent tape over the lens ring to protect it from scratches though. I am still not sure if I will keep it.

Also what are the special instructions for assembly? Your help is much appreciated.

If you are going to buy it, then do it. Then I explain it. If not you will not understand it.

Thanks so much Carlos - I might go ahead now. Still interested in the fact that you are not sure whether to keep it or not though. Is there any reason to not keep it if it seems to do all that you need?

Thanks so much Carlos - I might go ahead now. Still interested in the fact that you are not sure whether to keep it or not though. Is there any reason to not keep it if it seems to do all that you need?

My comment on not keeping it was about the Century 0.6x. If I get to sell mine well here, I might go for the other Century HDV, which is .7x. This 0.6x does introduce some barrel distortion and is not zoom-through focusable.

About the matte-box it's different. My budget was limited when I bought mine, and I didn't know much about matte-boxes then. I had read a lot about them all, and some of the affordable ones (Formatt and Cavision) were not perfect. Zanutto, Chroziel and Vocas seemed to be the best, but too out of reach for my money. The one I thought could be the best deal was the Geardear.

It was then when I saw this one on eBay and thought was worth the risk.

Handling it has taught me a great deal on what should I look for if I sell this MB. But even if I don't, I am now starting to look at it with different eyes. What I can improve on it, I think, is finish quality. But as a tool it does all it's supposed to for not too much money. So whether you ask for more or not is a different question.

Carlos,

I have ordered the Matte box that we are discussing. Careful examination would seem to suggest that this is almost identical to the Vocas that Century optics sell.

Do you have any tips for use and assembly when I receive it in a couple of days. I remeber you saying that the assembly instructions were wrong, and was hoping to avoid any problems.

Also - does anyone have a good source of reasonable quality, but not too expensive 4 x 4 filters? I have the Century Optics Tru Pol, but it cost $300 here in Australia - so I was hoping to get some a bit cheaper on the internet.

All the best and thanks again for all of your help.

Reagrds,

I have the Century 0.6X - which seems to vignette with every hood or matte box I have tried on it (and I have tried quite a few)

I also have the .6x, and got Century's sunshade/filter holder which looks a bit like a mattebox however the filter doesn't rotate. When I purchased the lens they had a promotion to get the sunshade very inexpensively.

It doesn't vignette with the .6x, although you have to be careful to align it properly.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1080&IID=1341

I have ordered the Matte box that we are discussing. Careful examination would seem to suggest that this is almost identical to the Vocas that Century optics sell.

Do you have any tips for use and assembly when I receive it in a couple of days. I remeber you saying that the assembly instructions were wrong, and was hoping to avoid any problems.

Please be patient. I will explain it to you when the MB arrives and everything will work out. It's no use explaining it now if you do not have the parts in front of you.

And yes, it seems to be identical to the Vocas. Quite probably not as well finished. But costing a lot less!

Also - does anyone have a good source of reasonable quality, but not too expensive 4 x 4 filters? I have the Century Optics Tru Pol, but it cost $300 here in Australia - so I was hoping to get some a bit cheaper on the internet.

Yes, there is. But I am not too sure if you can get it from there. B&H sells this kit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=380660&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

It has at least three that you will need: pola screen, graduated ND and black mist. You also get a graduated blue and graduated orange, that may help on daylight color effects.

There might be other sources for 4 x 4 filters in Singapur or Thailand, which is closer to you.

I also ordered a threaded Hoya UV, which protects the lens. But you can't use it with the .6x Century lens.

I also have the .6x, and got Century's sunshade/filter holder which looks a bit like a mattebox however the filter doesn't rotate. When I purchased the lens they had a promotion to get the sunshade very inexpensively.

It doesn't vignette with the .6x, although you have to be careful to align it properly.

That was a bet I did that turned out OK. The matte-box fits perfectly with the .6x lens. You can adjust the shutters so they don't vignette, and there's at least 5 cm of sunshade to protect from reflections. There's also the french flag, which you can add up front.

Contrary to the Century shade, this one allows filter rotation and the MB weight is held by the rods.

I'm sure the mattebox is fine and offers many advantages... But I was just pointing out to Graeme that there is indeed a lens shade which works with the .6x wide angle.

Thanks Carlos, I should have the item in about 4 or 5 days. The filters look like good value compared to the cost of my Schneider polariser.

Boyd,

Thanks for the advice on the Century shade.

I remembered your post about this, but when I went back to the B&H site it was no longer there. I ended up buying the Cavision LM100MW, which was recommended, but unfortunately it vignettes at 15 % zoom or less - which robs me of a lot of wide angle. It's rather surprising as it looks like a very wide square shade - and well made too. I have thought of trying to cut a few mm off it - but I would probably wreck it.

Once again, thanks everybody - your help is greatly appreciated.

This may sound stupid, but this very simple DIY shade could solve your problem on some situations:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=881641#post881641

I will even try it myself, as I saw a rubber foam material, about 1/2" thick, which was light enough and stiff enough to work fine on a shade.

The problem is how to secure it on the lens. But it would be light enough.

Carlos,

My Matte box has just arrived - can you please give me your tips to get it to work better. At the moment it is still in the box - thought I'd wait for advice and avoid any frustration.

Your help is much appreciated.

My Matte box has just arrived - can you please give me your tips to get it to work better. At the moment it is still in the box - thought I'd wait for advice and avoid any frustration.

Your help is much appreciated.

Congratulations on your purchase.

Right now I am in the middle of a shooting, in another place in Brazil. Get back to Rio tomorrow at noon. Can you wait until then?

I have been using the matte-box here, and it has been great. With two 4 x 4 filters.


Carlos

No problems Carlos,

Look forward to your return - enjoy the shoot.

To start with I don't know what the original setup of your MB is. Perhaps it came ready for the Z1, which mine did not.

As you can see, this MB is designed in a modular way to serve several cameras.

1) The first thing you have to see is which holes in the will serve your camera on the base plate. Holes on one side are more centered tha on the other, which also the rubber strips. There are also large holes that can be used to put a screwdriver through to tighten the camera screw.

2) If you have an Z1 you will probably need to use the side with more holes on it. Here comes the first problem: you need two threaded holes, one for the camera screw and another for the guiding screw. You won't have the latter on the side I used, which in my case was the "right" one. You will have a screw hole and another hole in front of it, but it's not threaded. The holes I picked are closer to the front of the base plate. You will see why later.

3) I simply glued the guiding screw to the unthreaded hole, using non-epoxy glue so I could take it out if I wanted to. Using that position the base plate will be centered between the two rods. It worked perfectly.

4) Next comes setting the height in the vertical length adjuster. Use the tool the MB came with, loosen the screw and move the adjuster to the other side, closer to where the screws now are.

5) Put the rods in and lock them in their longest position up front. The screws position I picked on the base plate will not allow any protruding of the rods to the front or to the back.

6) Screw the camera to the base + rods. To tighten the camera screw you might have to do what I did, which is a large hole to put the screwdriver through. You may use a small coin, but it won't be easy. Or at least it was not for me.

7) Unscrew the plastic ring on the back of the sunshade and insert the rubber donut you will use, probably 72mm. Screw the ring back in.

8) Now insert the sunshade on the rods and on the zoom lens of camera. Watch that the donut goes back a bit, so it's not on the the front of the lens.

Basically you are set to go now. Now you will need a slight mod on the filter holder.


Carlos

The filter holders have a springed pressure arm, secured by a screw, to keep the filters in place. But I found that the spring is not too strong.

So what I did was glue a 1mm thick rectangular piece of rubber to the pressure arm. This did it, and now I can shake the filter holder that the filter won't come off. In fact you should test that every time you put a filter in, just to be sure.

You will also need to tighten the screw.


Carlos

I just came back from shooting with the MB on my Z1. And I am very happy to say using results were great.

The camera looks impressive and is well balanced with the whole setup. I was shooting on a tropical city (Salvador, Bahia), so I had to use two filters besides the internal NDs in order to keep the F stop low.

In my case a pola screen and a graduated ND. They worked perfectly. Perhaps a minor complaint might be that to rotate the filter holder and polarize the light, with the grad ND, would demand one fixed and one rotating holders. But I could get away with it here. But you have to go much higher in price to get that.

You need at least two screw-drivers to take with you for the MB: a wide one with a short blade for the camera screw; a 5mm one for adjusting the filter holder screw.

The sunshade was very effective in keeping reflections away too, and I didn't have any. I didn't even take the French flag, and I didn't miss it.

The whole thing felt very solid, and I am now seriously thinking in modifying the camera case I built, so I can put the camera away on it with the MB on. That should reflect how satisfied I am.

Carlos

This is a tip that might be useful on many sunshades using movable horizontal shutters inside the shade to further control reflections.

There's a very light material, which in Brazil is called "pluma" (feather) that could be velcroed to the shutters to further extend the shaded area up front.

It's about 4mm thick, and looks like a styrofoam "sandwich" panel. The styrofoam is hardly pressed, with thin black cardboard doing the sandwich.

You can cut rectangular pieces, 2" long by the width of the shutters, and glue 1/2" strips of velcro on it and on the shutter.

You can then attach these add-ons whenever you need them.


Carlos

Thanks so much for your help Carlos - you are correct in that my matte box was technically designed for the Z1, but I can see that it is probably very little different from yours.

I know the material that you are talking about for the shutter extensions - and yes we have it here in Australia - so I will get some and try it out.

I have started the assembly and modification process - will let you know how I get on. Your help has been invaluable on this and is much appreciated.

All the best,

AFAIK these matte-boxes were not designed for one specific camera. I bought mine as being for a Z1 too.

I'm glad my info is helping you. Things will work out alright. It's a great tool, as you may have seen on my other shooting comments.

Carlos,

Used your modifications - and they worked well. The filter stage is a little loose and I am going to have to work on this a bit - but the rest seems fine. I had to turn the spacer over just as you suggested as well - that was the key to getting the thing aligned. It just would not work the other way.

Still looking for the "alignment card" mentioned in the manual - which bears an uncanny resemblance to the Century maual available on line.

Once again thanks very much for the help - made it an easy job instead of a hard one.

All the best,

Used your modifications - and they worked well. The filter stage is a little loose and I am going to have to work on this a bit - but the rest seems fine. I had to turn the spacer over just as you suggested as well - that was the key to getting the thing aligned. It just would not work the other way.

I'm glad things turned out fine. The filters support have a two screws behind the frontal rod support that keep the filter holders in place. Don't forget about them when you put the filters.

The rubber strips will probably be useless. I discarded them.

Still looking for the "alignment card" mentioned in the manual - which bears an uncanny resemblance to the Century maual available on line.

No, there's none. Can you give me URL to that Century manual?

This people should be smarter in doing a better manual. My first impressions had been very bad, which was frustrating. Only my perseverance kept me going until I found the way out. Fortunately.

Carlos,

Here is the URL for the Century Manual.

http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/Brochures/dvmb%20manual%20122.pdf

Enjoy the similarity.

Graeme

Carlos,

I have completed my matte box modifications per your instructions and it now seems to work well. The only problem is the anticipated one of the handles on the filter holders being too long. I did get your ideas about cutting the filter holders down - I agree that it sounds like a very good idea. I might try it myself if I can get a source of filter holders - may be able to make one out of aluminium, but it will be tricky.

Still waiting on my filters to arrive from the US. WIll be at least another week yet.

Once again thanks for all your shared help and ideas - I hope that I can repay the favour some time.

I have completed my matte box modifications per your instructions and it now seems to work well. The only problem is the anticipated one of the handles on the filter holders being too long. I did get your ideas about cutting the filter holders down - I agree that it sounds like a very good idea. I might try it myself if I can get a source of filter holders - may be able to make one out of aluminium, but it will be tricky.

The guys that sell the mb may have filter holders to sell separately.

As the filter holders handles should usually be on the right (or left), the length is not a problem then. It becomes so in cases like graduated NDs, where it's useful to have a vertical adjustment to move the filter up and down.

It's for those cases only that I suggested cutting the filter holders so as to make them shorter on the handle side.

I hope that I can repay the favour some time.

Let's see: I once knew a stunning Aussie girl that I lost the contact of...



Carlos

Carlos,

I won't give you her address ,,,,,,, as I am married to her!

All the best,