Such a sticky should show why crummy tripods don't do the trick, and should also offer some alternatives.

For instance, one can keep an eye on craigslist and ebay for a deal. In my case, I got a Bogen 516 with 350 legs for just over $300. I use it for the 5D2. The one shortcoming is that the spring isn't adjustable. For short takes or pan-only, this isn't a problem. On the other hand, if you shoot long events, proper balance is a must.

Another option is to buy a reasonably sturdy photo tripod and lock the camera down, when that's appropriate. Then build yourself a shoulder rig, fit a loupe, and become a human tripod when you need camera motion. Sure, it's not as smooth as a real tripod, but it's smoother than pure handheld. And with $50, a saw, and a drill, you can build something as light and sturdy as a pro rig. It just won't be adjustable without tools, won't have rails, and won't impress gear heads. If you use a wide enough lens, and develop some skills, the audience will never know.

You can also get a Steady Tracker for not a lot of money. It's not as smooth as a $5k+ Steadicam, but, again, it beats handheld, as well as a sticky, shaky tripod shot.

For a shooter who doesn't have $1,000+ for a new, professional video tripod, these are just a few ideas for how to improve one's shooting while saving or scrounging for a worthy head and sticks.

One silly option would be to use a crummy tripod and use After Effects or equivalent to de-shake the image. If somebody is more interested in video effects than great shooting, this could get somebody with more time than money started.

Any other out of the box ideas?

I would probably shock every one of you with the tripod I'm currently using on my camera. The only thing I know about it is the brand is 'hollywood' and I'm pretty sure its only intended to be for a light still camera. I've been looking around for a few days now and I still havnt really come up with anything that stands out. I've found a few I'm really looking at but I cant figure out which would be the best. I've also bumped my price range to around $150, $175 max. I'm still just a student film-maker, a few minor bumps during a pan wont bother me. I'm sure everyone here started out with a limited budget and limited gear while they were still learning everything so you must know a little of the situation I'm in..

I just saw this B&H kit a few minutes ago and it looks pretty good.
Davis & Sanford | Pro Vista Tripod with FM 18 | PROVISTA7518B (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243272-REG/Davis_Sanford_PROVISTA7518B_Pro_Vista_Tripod_with.html#features)

From what I know/read about tripods, that kit looks like a pretty good deal. The tripod it self looks very sturdy (able to hold 18pounds!), and it also looks like the head can be tilted as well to help level it. It almost seems like more than what I need, but $160 + free shipping is a pretty good deal I think...

This is a random tripod head I found. Its fluid-filled which from what I've read is what you want in a head. It also gets some good reviews, but thats about the only thing I know about it. I still havnt found any legs/sticks to go with it.
Slik | 504QF-II Video Head | 618-504 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/376531-REG/Slik_618_504_504QF_II_Video_Head.html#reviews)

I really don't understand why you would join this forum and ask a legitimate question, only to disregard all the advice that is being given to you by industry pros and skilled camera operators. This thread is 21 pages long as of right now, and the consensus is that cheap tripods and heads don't produce good footage.

You have mentioned that you are a film student and maybe that means that your eye is not developed yet, and you can't tell the difference between footage shot on a cheap-o tripod and a pro level one. If that is the case then one day you will be able to tell the difference and you will wish you would have gotten a quality piece of equipment. Also, as a film student you should understand that there is a lot you don't know, therefore listening to the advice of the pros on this forum would probably be a good idea.

Really, if money is that tight, go to the bank and borrow 500-1,000, stretch out the payments to where you can comfortably make the payments.

I find myself in the same place as you, needing a tripod/head combo but can't afford it. However, instead of wasting my money on a cheap set up, I'm saving until I can afford the one I want. In the mean time I'm borrowing a tripod form my local cable station, which may be something for you to look into.

A good student should be able to learn from his or her mistakes, learn to detect true knowlege, based on experience, and learn to accept and use advice based on true knowledge.

As best I can tell, there is no learning curve going on at all. None.

A good student should be able to learn from his or her mistakes, learn to detect true knowlege, based on experience, and learn to accept and use advice based on true knowledge.

As best I can tell, there is no learning curve going on at all. None.

I am guessing that you are referring to Steven?

Yes, That is correct.

i have a Libec 38 for my XH-A1 and i bought this for my HV30:

Velbon | Sherpa 538 3-Section Tripod | SHERPA538 | B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/426165-REG/Velbon_SHERPA538_Sherpa_538_3_Section_Tripod.html#specifications)

it is pretty smooth for the HV30 with a WA and mic, and if you use a rubber band with the XH-A1, 1 in 5 pans can be 'smooth'. i would use it if i had unlimited takes and/or was climbing a mountain (it is pretty portable). or if i was a broke film student as it would hold its use as a b-camera tripod after you buy the Libec or other...

Good evening,

I went through the tripod ladder like many others: velbon, Sanford&Davis, 30 year ol miller f head placed on manfrotto legs, Gitzo 1380, and vinten vision 6.

To be honest, perhaps the best bang for the buck is the gitzo 1380, and you can buy just the head if you want.

I prefer the vision 6 for my bigger camera and the gitzo for my smaller cameras. The 1380 would be perfect for an xha1!!! and if you go bigger you just change the spring and you are in business.


the old miller head was really good for my gl2 when I had it. you can get these on ebay pretty darn cheap and it is a huge step forward if you do not have much money. They are flat bottomed so I put a manfrotto half ball under it and it was just fine.

Yes a 9000 dollar sactler would be better.

Hi guys. Budget may not be an option. Can you recommend a whole tripod system for a Canon XH-A1? (It will probably be the newer Canon XF305)

Can you maybe give me both high-end and mid-level price options?

Hi Bob,

(Not sure if my vision of high- and mid-level pricing is the same as yours!)

- High end: Vinten 3AS3
3AS is more than fine for the XH-A1 - I don't know the weight of the XH305).
Cost: $2400-ish for one with carbon fibre legs

- Mid level: Sachtler FSB-4 or FSB-6
FSB-4 is good for the XH-A1, the FS-6 gives you more wiggle room for the future if your rig gets bigger
Cost: $1600 for a carbon fibre tripod version of the FSB-6. You can get an aluminum version of this with an FSB-4 head for $800.

Plenty of info about these tripods on this forum if you search, and there's a review of the Vinten 3AS by Chris Soucy available in the main DV Info site.

Bob, Here are a few options I would suggest

Vinten V3AS-AP1F Vision Pozi-Loc Aluminum Tripod System (Black) includes Vision 3AS Fluid Head, Single Stage Aluminum Tripod, Floor Spreader, Soft Case – Supports 11 lbs
Tapeworks Pricing: $1,799.00

Sachtler 0472 FSB-6 Aluminum Tripod System - consists of: FSB-6 Fluid Head, 1-Stage Tripod, Mid-Level Spreader and Padded Case - Supports 13.2 lbs
Tapeworks Pricing: $1,345.00

Libec just introduced the new RS250 system at NAB this week!
Libec-RS SERIES-What's RS (http://www.libecsales.com/products/rs/rs_top.html)
I have been able to test the RS450 and RS350 Systems and I put them in the same category/quality as Vinten, Sachtler, Miller etc....even though I have not seen or tested the new 250 sys yet, the specs show that it will match up nicely.

Libec RS-250M RS Series tripod sytem with mid level spreader consists of RH25 fluid head, RT30B 2-Stage Tripod, BR-2B mid level spreader, FP-2B foot pads and RC-30 case - Supports 13.2 lbs
Tapeworks Pricing: $1,099.00

On lower Range tripods, you may be interested in the following

Libec LS38M(2A) Professional Tripod System with Mid-Level Spreader: Libec H38 Professional Fluid Head- 75mm Bowl, PH-3 Pan handle, 8kg/ 17.5LBS Capacity. Includes H38 Head /T72 Tripod /BR-3S Mid Spreader /FP-2 Foot Pads /TC-70 Carrying Case
Tapeworks April Promotional Price: $549.00 (normally $599)

Manfrotto 503HDV,351MVB2K Professional Tripod System - Includes 503 HDV Head, Pan Handle, 351MVB2 Tripod, 3 x Rubber Feet, Mid-Level Spreader and Padded Bag
Tapeworks Price: $649.00

Contact Tapeworks Texas Inc toll free 866-827-3489 and ask for me and I will be glad to discuss the differences, pro's and con's of each.

Best Regards,
Scott Cantrell
Tapeworks Texas Inc - DVinfo Sponser
tapeworksscott@sbcglobal.net

add my 2 cents worth?

Scott has posted quite an interesting list, a little bit like the descent into hell in some ways.

I think it fair to say that that line up defines the old saying "you get what you pay for" wonderfully.

Sticking with the leader of the pack, the Vinten has something that none of the other offerings can touch - the Perfect Balance system (even if it is a total misnomer, it's actually a Perfect Counterbalance system, but we won't quibble).

Not greatly appreciated by less experienced users but a gift from heaven itself if you know what it does, it is worth an extra $500 just for that.

Basically, it means that no matter how much you pimp/ accessorise or modify your camera (within certain limits) you can get gram accurate counterbalance every time.

If you've never used a rig which can offer it, you haven't lived. Really.


CS

Chris,

I read your review of the Vinten 3AS a while ago and haven't forgotten how passionate you are about its greatness. When I've got the cash, it will be a tough decision between that and the Sachtler FSB6. (I have three Canons: 5D Mark II, T2i, and XHA1.)

Now Libec seems to be adding another choice. And they, too, seem to have gone to school on Vinten with a feature they call, yup, "Counterbalance."

Libec-RS SERIES-Counterbalance (http://www.libecsales.com/products/rs/cb.html)

I've never had the chance to sample the Vinten or this new Libec, but they sure look good on paper -- uh, computer monitor.

Thanks to you for all the effort and insight you put into your review!

Thank you for your kind words, greatly appreciated. The review was bloody hard work, can't imagine why anyone would do it as a living. Coal mining seems slightly easier, if considerably more dangerous.

Well, bugger me, they've gone and done it.

Didn't think it would take long, and it hasn't.

There really wasn't much of an answer to it but total emulation in one form or other, so it was a forgone conclusion.

I look forward to some forward thinking person sending me a sample for a review (HINT) but won't hold my breath.

Now, as to your camera selection and the support thereof: (you didn't mention what you're using currently)

What if someone could offer you a head that could perfectly counterbalance each one, gram perfect,

Same head. Might need to change a spring, but still dial up perfect balance every time, with every camera you own?,

Might just happen, stay tuned. I'm working on it.


CS


PS: Thanks again for the kind words.

First, let me add that the options I provided was based on not knowing budget and experience from the user. Yes, most definitely, "you get what you pay for"....This is why I added that Bob could contact me so I could explain the differences of a $600 tripod system vs a Vinten $2K system. The Vinten Vision Series is no doubt a spectacular piece of equipment, it's just that not everybody can afford one, nor do they know why there is such a dramatic cost difference. Bob mentioned an XHA1S and states "probably the newer XF305." Well, if it is the XHA1S, most of the time individuals do not want or have the budget to spend half the price they spent on the camcorder on a tripod. If it will be the newer XF305, then he hopefully has a bigger budget for a better tripod....and accessories. Additional questions come into play...Mattebox? LCD Monitor? Teleprompter?.....how many accessories are going to be added which in turn increase the maximum weight allowance? All of those questions are important to the type of head that will be required, how many steps do they want and or need on the drag settings for pan and tilt?

I have been able to test the Libec RS Series, including the 350 and 450 systems. Addionally, I have had various TV Stringers here in the Houston TX area test them and they have been impressed with the smoothness of these new Libec heads. The counterbalance has been noted by end-users that have tested the RS Series to be just as good as Vinten's....pricing being alot better! I recently sent a demo/loaner RH45 head to a client/cinematographer who will be writing an article/review which I will post a link to when available. I will give you "heads" up that after speaking with him, Libec will be pleased with his write up. His review however is with the RH45 and not the RH25 that I quoted. However, All of the RS Series is based on the same technollogy, variances depending on the maximum weight allowance. If you find the "perfect head" that will be adjustable for any camera/weight that will be put on it.....please let us know! I would love to find it as well!

Scott Cantrell

Thank you for your kind words, greatly appreciated. The review was bloody hard work, can't imagine why anyone would do it as a living. Coal mining seems slightly easier, if considerably more dangerous.


My pleasure, Chris. I know how hard writing is because, well, I actually do it for a living. That, and as much video production as I can juggle. But your article was a quick, informative, and fun read and that's what it's all about -- sweating blood so the results seem effortless.

Re: my current situation, I'm gearing up for my first Sachtler/Vinten/Miller-level head and tripod. I've been using an antiquated Manfrotto and avoiding pans and tilts for the most part. As I said, I've got the three Canons, all light camera: the 5DMKII with a decent-sized lens and the XHA1 solo both weigh a little more than 4 pounds. The T2i weighs so little a party balloon could whisk it away, so I wasn't counting on using that on the tripod.

That said, I'm intrigued by your mysterious final comments. My guess is you're not talking about the AS3. So, are you suggesting I wait before buying?

Cheers,

Greg

So, are you suggesting I wait before buying?

Not really, it could be a long wait.

Can't say more than "I'm working on it".


CS

Bob,


I was reading your post and Know exactly what you are going through having been there.

I purchased a Miller F fluid head that was many years old ( still solid and no leaks) but was a huge improvement over my cheaper tripods.

I no longer use the head. I have a 75mm ball under it but it also has a flat base so it could go on a regular camera tripod too. I would let you have it for a song if you are really in need with low budget. I used it with a canon gl2 with good effect.


If you want to try it out I could send it on down, it is just on the shelf catching dust.

Dale Guthormsen

I have been looking to purchase a tripod for a few weeks now and keep going back to the manfrotto. All throughout film school, I used these and was usually pleased with my result. I have a budget of around 500 and had my eye on this one.
Manfrotto - 055XB Pro Tripod with 503HDV Fluid Video Head - B&H

I am afraid that I am leaning towards manfrotto just because that is almost the only professional tripod I have ever used. Should I keep waiting and looking? Scott at tapeworks showed me a few Libecs for around the price range and they seem kinda cheap looking. Just my own opinion.

By the way:
Sony Hvr-v1u
Interviews shorts and documentaries. Some time lapse.

Brandon,

At that budget, I would save an extra $300 and get the basic Sachtler FSB-4.

The tripod legs you link to do not seem to have a leveling bowl so you have to get the head level by adjusting individual legs - which is frustrating.

If you really can't go much higher in price, then maybe this one:

Manfrotto - 745XB MDeVe Video Tripod Kit with 503HDV Fluid Head (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520984-REG/Manfrotto_745XB_MDeVe_Video_Tripod.html#features)

There is at least a leveling bowl in that one.

I would personally either save the $$$ for the basic Sachtler, or try to get a Manfrotto with better legs - twin tube legs with a spreader, like this one: Manfrotto - 503HDV,351MVB2K Aluminum Video - 503HDV,351MVB2K


The Libecs are OK - but the LS-22 is a bit lightweight for the Sony V1 (I had one and wasn't happy with it) and the LS-38 counterbalance is too strong for the V1, despite what other people say. It's no good trying to tilt the camera if you are fighting the spring. Been there, done that, wasted the money. It's designed for heavier cameras, of 4kg/8lbs and above.

The Manfrotto has the advantage of adjustable drag/tilt friction and a degree of counterbalance adjustment. If you really can't spend any more money, then it is as good as you can get. I owned a similar Vinten Pro-6HDV, and it was good for your sort of work. It wasn't great for long lens wildlife work, but great for events, interviews etc.

thanks a bunch mike. I really like the Manfrotto - 503HDV,351MVB2K Aluminum Video - 503HDV,351MVB2K
Manfrotto - 503HDV,351MVB2K Aluminum Video - 503HDV,351MVB2K

I am pretty confident that I will end up saving my money and going with the 650 dollar setup.

Brandon - I just emailed you some more information

Mike, Brandon's first email was requesting a tripod system under $500, so this does limit the tripod selection and trying to find something within a budget can be top priority! Therefore I did recommend the LS22 system, even though I agree with you that they are not what I classify as a pro system.

When comparing the H38 vs the 503HDV, I agree with your statement
""the LS-38 counterbalance is too strong for the V1, despite what other people say. It's no good trying to tilt the camera if you are fighting the spring. Been there, done that, wasted the money. It's designed for heavier cameras, of 4kg/8lbs and above."

When using a camcorder like the Sony NXCAM, HVRZ7U, Canon XHA1S and similar camcorders that have a total weight with accessories around 6 - 8 lbs, the H38 will shine all the way up to about 15 lbs.
The V1U is a bit too light for the H38 head. I am unsure about the 503HDV with a camera like the V1 as I have only tested it against the H38 with camcorders ranging around 8 lbs
The 503HDV has a Multi-spring 3 step counterbalance that may be of assistance with the lighter weight. I think I will have to test this myself! However, considering price point and quality of the head when using 8lbs, I personally prefer the H38 over the 503HDV. And, if you want superb customer support, as I have mentioned before in this thread, Libec has some of the best customer support in this industry.

I did mention to Brandon that If he is planning on upgrading his camcorder, then I would suggest the H38, otherwise if he will be sticking with the V1U for a while, the 503HDV may be a better fit for his application. Additionally, as mentioned in this forum, if he can save up to a better (and more expensive) system, he would be extremely happy with the new Libec RS250M system which compares to Sachtler's FSB4 systems and has a better price point. Libec-RS SERIES RS-250M (http://www.libecsales.com/products/rs/RS-250M.html)
I have tested the new RH25 head and it is really amazing! It has a continuous counterbalance that I have adjusted using upwards to 13 lbs with a GYHD250 camcorder (although I would recommend the RS350 system with the GYHD250) and all the way down to 2 lbs with the Canon 5D Mark II. Tapeworks website reflects a sell price of $1099.00, However, I have it on promotion this month for $949.00, one heck of a price for one spectacular tripod system!

Mike, if you have a dealer over there in the UK with the RS250 avaialble for demonstration, you really should go take a look at it!

Best Regards,
Scott Cantrell
Tapeworks Texas Inc - DVinfo Sponser
tapeworksscott@sbcglobal.net

Hey Scott,

I agree with what you say. Libec do make good equipment, and if it matches your camera it is great. I use a Libec zoom remote, for example - it just works, and doesn't have any extra buttons that I hit by mistake with my fat fingers. I also owned a couple of different Libecs (the 22 and 37 - and the LS-37 is doing sterling service for another member here under his Sony EX-3).

The counterbalance settings on the 503HDV do indeed make life a lot better with the lighter cams like these.

If you have a slightly bigger/heavier cam, or typically use lights, matte box, monitor etc., then I do agree the LS-38 will be superb for the price - you just have to get a good match. One thing I couldn't fault about the Libecs was the quality of the workmanship, they're well made and robust, and excellent value for money.

Us "small cam" people always face problems with tripods. Tripods rated for small cameras are the cheaper models, and tripods that are more expensive are rated for heavier cameras! The Sachtler FSB-2 or FSB-4 seem to tick all the boxes for smaller cameras like my Panasonic HMC41.

The new Libec range is very interesting (and wasn't available when I was buying), especially with Vinten-style fully adjustable counterbalance. That should make them streets ahead of any of the Manfrottos mentioned above, and the drag looks to be a lot easier to configure as well. I did wonder if Vinten had a patent on that one, but clearly not! The Sachtlers only have stepped counterbalance, so you can find that one settings is too light and the next is too strong. Not a problem with continuous counterbalance.

Having said that, I am unlikely to change from my Sachtler! I feel I can comment because I've worked my way up through the brands and models - everyone has different needs and different budgets.

A point for Brandon as well - and one that I feel we forget sometimes - if you really can, you should get yourself to a store and try out tripods. What you read here is only my experience, and yours may well be different.

Ok. So i am sold on the 503hdv head but are there sticks that might be a little bit cheaper. Do I really need the 351mvb2k legs? Any suggestions? I am really trying to fall around 500 for total budget.

Brandon, I am selling my 503HDV (just the head, no tripod). Slightly used. If you are interested, please contact me at info@lacolorshop.com

Thanks
Taky

Taky,

Sent you an email.

ok. now where can I just buy tripod legs. I wanna check on prices of the 351mvb2k legs alone. Do they sell them alone?

I finally just did it. I bought a 503hdv head off of another user and got the legs(351mvb2k) off of b and h. Thanks for all the advice guys.

So, Ive read this whole thread Twice. I'm confused, as they're conflicting opinions.

Is the Libec 22 a better tripod than the 503 tripod and head

thanks

Andrew

This thread has got to the point of personal preferences. There is no right or wrong answer. I read this thread, and a few others. I finally bought the Libec 38 on the basis of reviews, of what I could afford, of what I was willing to carry (and it's really too bulky for me to carry comfortably) and of what was reasonably easily available in Britain.

If you have access to a shop, or to people who already have video tripods, have a look at what they have, pick them up, extend them, carry them about, etc. Decide what you want, and what you feel comfortable with. If not, you have to choose your criteria, get it mail order and hope for the best. It's always a compromise whichever way you do it.

Good luck

"Is the Libec 22 a better tripod than the 503 tripod and head"

Andrew, in my own opinion the answer would be no, the Libec H22 head is not better, or even as good as the Manfrotto 503HDV.

However, the Libec H38 head can be arguably just as good, if not better than the Manfrotto 503HDV. Depends on who you are talking to. And the Libec generally sells at a better price point.

Hi Scott/Annie,

I'll have a look at the libec 38.

Thanks

Here I am, Mr old broken record!

Annie is right, it is personal preference. Nobody can say "yes, this model is the exact, perfect tripod for you".

People like me are trying our best to help people avoid the mistakes that we made with inferior tripods. I'm not trying to be snobbish, it is a basic comparison of features and performance. This doesn't mean spending mega-bucks; a basic "good" tripod doesn't cost much more than the $600 models mentioned here.

To follow on what others have said, the LS22 isn't as good as a Manfrotto 503HDV. I think the LS-38 is at least cheaper than a similar 503HDV kit, if you can cope with the too-strong counterbalance spring, counterbalance adjust, pan/tilt drag adjust etc.

Counterbalance is important, but a lot of people don't seem to realise it. Also, adjustable drag goes a long way towards helping you pull off good pans and tilts as well.