i use a 501hdv head on 755XB MDeVe legs. i like this setup cause it is a sturdy tripod yet i can walk around the field with it easily from spot to spot. depends on what your shooting i suppose. though i like the manfrotto cause i also attached the baseplate to my glidecam for easy switching between the two supports. not sure if the other one mentioned has those accessories. good luck!

dan

I have a Libec 38. Yes, it's a ball leveling head and you can put it on a hi-hat. I think it's 75 mm but don't have it at home to check right now. It's the only system I know about in that price range that doesn't do the dreaded "bounceback" at the end of a pan. It's adequate for the XH A!. I use a Lee Wide Angle bellows lens hood, which holds two 4x4 filters, for a mattebox (doesn't need rails) and usually have a Sennheiser wireless receiver mounted on the camera. Total package comes in around 7 pounds. The Libec38 handles that OK but any more weight and I'd want a bigger head. I bought mine from Tapeworks Texas, by the way (a sponsor on here). Great guys to deal with, and it was actually cheaper than B&H. I got the mid-level spreader for convenience (you can drop one leg down on a step, etc.).

+1 on Bill's and others comments on the Libec. I have one and the decision was made based on quality construction, head smoothness, and the LACK of backlash - an issue with other units costing far more.

The Libec is often viewed as a budget unit - after some experience with it I now view it as one of the best bargains out there.

I have a Libec. The model number I don't recall right now. I also have a Cartoni Focus. Whilst the Cartoni is a better overall unit, the Libec is a great value. Here's what I like about the Libec:
- Very stiff legs
- Very light
- Very stable
- You can get smooth pans with it but stops and starts are tough and you really have to work at it
- No backlash. None. Nada. Zilch. The Cartoni cannot say that.

For what I do, I need the Cartoni. However, you'd do yourself a disservice if you didn't look at the great options that Libec offer.

Tripp - I first purchased a Cartoni but returned it the next morning due to the backlash. I'm not sure what good juju Libec does for the cost but it works :-)

+1 for the LS38.

The Libec 38 has just gone to the top of my list. thanks

I have the 503HDV now, I just purchased it used and it seems to be pretty inadequate. The pan drag adjustment seems erratic, and stops and starts aren't as smooth as I would want.

Would the Libec 38 be a useful upgrade? My budget is around $800 for the tripod. Should I push that to include a Miller DS-10? What about the Sachtler FSB-4 or -6?

(I'm putting around 7/8 pounds on it)

I have the Libec with my XHA1 and RR M2E and love it - amazing tripod at the price - you will not be dissapointed!
I got mine here - http://tapeworkstexas.com/ls38m_2a_.html - and it was on sale through them, i'm not affiliated in any way.
Cheers,
Brian

I'm looking to update the tripod head. Looking at either HDV501 or HDV503. Price is almost double on HDV503. Is it too way or overkill to use HDv503 on XH-A1? What's your suggestion?

thank you!

In my opinion the 503 is underkill!

So I should go with something even more than expensive than HDV503? Any suggestion?

Thanks

Is this a bare XH A1 or pimped?

Bare I would suggest the Sachtler DV 6 SB.

Sachtler*>*75 mm (http://products.sachtler.com/prod.asp?lid=2&sdid=0&did0=94&did1=1331&did2=97&did3=1332&wptid=1&wpid=1227&mgid=0&ptid=593&pid=18922&sid=000002467A5E57475B525D61565859545A5F6604111D1E5F5C7C141F004B0E01240B090C40061C7D0D1258160C0F390F 0D5606094E360D4E06581A0F280411050B17553E061C16584F1C2716585839543217213B280007482A1D580F480A026E4E59 474B5958655E55595748436B595A465F585C665D565B5D5046675B5944)

Pimped enough, the Vinten Vision 3 AS.

Vinten | Vision 3AS Pan and Tilt Head | www.vinten.com (http://www.vinten.com/product/vision-3as-pan-and-tilt-head)

For more on the V3 AS, my review:

Vinten Vision 3 AS Tripod (1 of 4) DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camsupport/vinten-vision-3-as-tripod-1-of-4.html)

The Manfrotto's just can't cut it with HD (IMHO), it's as simple as that. Avoid or regret.


CS

It is for XH-A1s with the Canon WD-H72 wide angle lens adapter.

I already have the manfrotto tripod so I would like to stick with the same brand. But I will check out the links you sent. thanks

Hmm, think there must be a mistype there somewhere, else NZ is getting stiffed on new Canon gear..............

Bad luck on the Manfrotto tripod, better luck next time.

If you want/ need to stay with Manfrotto, your next best bet is the 519 head, at least it has variable counterbalance.

tripods, heads, monopods, light stands, camera supports, lighting supports, professional tripod 519 - PROFESSIONAL FLUID VIDEO HEAD (http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/pid/2482?livid=80&lsf=80&child=3)


CS

It's XH-A1s. Sorry for the typo.

wowo the 519 head is almost triple the cost of 530HDV... it's out of my budget. I guess I will stick with 530HDV. I'm also getting the 3520 leveling interface

Manfrotto 3502 - Compact Camera Leveler (http://www.bogenimaging.us/Jahia/site/bius/pid/6780?kindOfProductCollectionRequest=productDetail&productCode=3502&productDescription=Compact%20Camera%20Leveler&curBrandId=MAN&market=MKT1&product_from_search=true)

I'm looking to update the tripod head. Looking at either HDV501 or HDV503. Price is almost double on HDV503. Is it too way or overkill to use HDv503 on XH-A1? What's your suggestion?

Quite rightly, David said:

In my opinion the 503 is underkill!

I take it that from your coment about the "Camera Leveler" you don't actually have a 75 or 100 mm ball tripod to start with? (Your link just goes dark with no response, so no help there).

What can I say, this is no way to run a railway?

You're running an HD camera, don't stick it onto a sub - SD support.


CS

Can anyone recommend something affordable that gets the job done for XH-A1..I am also looking to use it to hold a small back up camera on occasion...

Libec LS-38 is my pick.

The Libec 38 is what I use. I think it's about the cheapest one you can get that's adequate for the camera and doesn't have "bounceback" at the end of a pan.

The smaller and cheaper Libec 22 is very smooth but just a bit undersized for the camera's weight. However, it can be used if you have a steady hand, and use the horizontal lock at the end of a pan--there's just a bit of bounceback to it but it is controllable. It's difficult to do perfect moves with the 22 when zoomed in very far, and it doesn't go up high enough to suit me. I got one when I first bought the camera because I wanted something very light weight. It was useable and I liked it for the compact size and weight, but I sold it and got the 38. I have the TA-100 tripod adapter plate, a bellows matte box, 4X4 filters, a shotgun mic and wireless mic attached to the camera, so it was a bit too heavy for the 22.

A good place to buy a Libec in the U.S. is from Tapeworks Texas, a sponsor here. They were cheaper than B&H when I got mine.

I have a Matthews 25 and am very satisfied for the price.
http://www.videomaker.com/article/13346/

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=502679&Q=&is=REG&A=details

I did an extensive search which resulted in a Libec 38, bought it a few moths ago and am very happy with the robust design and smooth pans!

RW

I've happily used the "Sunpak 7575" with my heavy XL2 and now XH A1s. It can handle the weight of the XL 2 and surely the A1s, it has two quick release plates, bubble levels and a smooth 3 way pan system. The online pix don't do it justice.

It's only $80.00 It's big brother is $90.00.

It would not surprise me if the Matthew 25 and the Libec came from the same factrory. The look excactly the same as does the Wako tripod.
Wako en Libec both come from Wako industries.

The Wako is made in China:
http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00QvstZTkRuEoUM/WAKO-Camera-Tripod-KH-25-.jpg

Libec is a British company, with the tripods being made in Japan. The Wako could be a cheap Chinese knockoff that's equally as good, but who knows.

From a post I made in Nov. '07:

I spoke with a Matthews rep, and found that the legs are actually the same as the Libec TH-M20, and the head is a new design from Matthews. It's made in Taiwan.

Hey guys, I'm new here to the forums and I'm still trying to learn the skills of the trade. I bought an xh-a1 recently and have been using it with a Manfrotto 503 head on Manfrotto sticks (don't know the model #). No surprise I am having the same issues a lot of you have with the 503 head. It sticks like crazy when trying to pan, it's about to drive me crazy, almost impossible to get a good smooth pan.

So my question is can you guys recommend a good tripod/head combo for around $1,200 that would meet my needs. I am shooting weddings, engagement videos and corporate stuff. But I really want my stuff to look professional and want to acquire the correct equipment in order to do so. I also am about to purchase a 7D so is there a combo that would work well for both cameras? Thanks in advance.

I know this subject has been exhausted, so even links to relevant threads would be helpful. I apologize for beating a dead horse with this thread but could really use some advice. Thanks.

Anyone? Sorry about the newb question.

Bumpity bump.......

If I was looking at something to buy that would be suitable for your camera, I would seriously be looking at a Vinten Vision 3AS head. I think your existing tripod is a 75mm, so it should work on it.

Vinten | Vision 3AS Pan and Tilt Head | www.vinten.com (http://www.vinten.com/product/vision-3as-pan-and-tilt-head)

how does this compare to the Sachtler FSB-6? is the Sachtler worth the extra cash in you guys opinion?

I think the Sachtler FSB heads are worth the money. There is extensive discussion about allthe heads in this range here. Perhaps someone will put up a couple of links to those threads.

It also depends on what you are shooting. If the Bogen head is not good enough for your needs, then it is necessary to go to one of the more expensive heads. I have a Gitzo that is excellent. I have used the Sachtler and several people I know own them, and all find it an outstanding head. Some people like the Cartoni Focus, but it is a 100mm bowl and I think not as good as the Sachtler. Several people have praised the new Vinten series suggestedin another post in this thread.

I have never found the middle price heads to be worth buying, though for some people they work well from what I read.

how does this compare to the Sachtler FSB-6? is the Sachtler worth the extra cash in you guys opinion?

I don't have the 3AS but the previous 3 model and I can't see any reason other than loading it up with a really heavy unit, that you would want or need to spend more money. Both the Vinten models are superb and will serve you well.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Anyone else have any advice. Will the satchler work well with a 7d also or do I need to look at a different combo for that camera?

I agree with the above advice regarding tripods. My previous tripods were for stills only - as long as they kept the camera off the ground they were OK.

I Shoot with a Canon XH-A1, 5D, 5Dmkii and a 7D. After researching this site on tripods, I narrowed it down to either Miller or Gitzo. I bought the Gitzo GT3541XLS after looking at the extensive selection at my local store - West Photo.

For travel I bought the Gitzo GT0540. Disassembled it fits inside my carry on.

For a head I bought a G2380 and a G2180 for my Glidecam. These work fine for the DSLR's but are somewhat difficult to level with the XH-A1 - they are both flat mounted heads.

For future use I also picked up a GS5320V 75mm bowl adapter for either a Sachtler FSB-6 or the new Vinten 3AS.

Pretty much blew the budget on tripods - now I can't afford the Sachler/Vinten head.

However, I don't think I will be forced to upgrade my tripods!

So are you saying that you think the fsb-6 would work well for both the xh-a1 and the 5d?

The FSB 6 and other video tripods do not allow turning the camera for portrait framing, only landscape framing.

The FSB 6 would be fine for holding a stills camera in landscape position, or for using one of the new photo cameras for shooting video. The FSB 6 might be overkill for a light camera, but it would work to hold the camera in landscape mode.

Hi

I bought the kit FSB6/2MD which contains the Sachtler FSB6 together with ENG75/2 tripod legs, mid level spreader and a bag. I own a Canon XH-A1 and made a long research to really get the right kit for my purposes. Like others I have used a Manfrotto 503 head earlier and to be honest I've never really liked it. It makes a 'gluing' sound and it's hard to make a soft panning/tilting start, it suffers from kickback when I stop panning/tilting and it's more or less impossible to do a tilt and a pan at the same time.

After long research with alternatives like Libec LS-38, Vinten 3AS and Sachtler FSB4/FSB6 I went for Sachtler FSB6. The Libec have a fixed balance spring and no drag adjustment, the Vinten 3AS seems to be made for cameras a little heavier than the XH-A1 as some reviews says. The Schtler FSB4 is for cameras up to 4kg which would be OK for the XH-A1 but to be a little safe for the future and perhaps heavier cameras I went for the FSB6.

The FSB6 head is absolutly fantastic. It have a 10 step adjustable balance spring which for my XH-A1 without any extras is perfect at step 1 or 2 so there is a lot of power left for extra equipment on the camcorder like lights, mic, matte box etc. The fluid system is adjustable in 3 steps + zero for both tilt and pan.

I can now do things as tilting and panning at the same time without risking hangups or strange sounds. No kickback at all. Pans and tilts can be performed really slow without any problems. Be aware that panning/tilting is an art by itself and can only be mastered by training.

What I don't like is the legs though. They are OK if I don't fold out the lower part of the legs but when I do that, the legs will suffer from twist if I'm not careful. If I have had the money when I bougt the kit I probably would have chosen the carbon fiber legs.

All in all I give the head 5 points out of 5 and the legs 4 points. This is absolutely my own oppinion and for my own needs. Read reviews and other peoples experiences and if you have the possabilities, try the kit before you buy.

Regards,

/Bo

Thanks to advice I read in these forums, I went with Sachtler. I have an FSB-6 with carbon fiber legs, for use with a Canon XH-A1s. I also bought the FSB-2 with the cheapest aluminum legs (because the head was not available separately) and will pair this with Gitzo CF legs (with 75mm bowl) for use with a Canon HV40 (which cost less than the video head!), and for possible future use with a Canon 7D. The Sachtler FSB heads are wonderful. I will sell my Manfrotto stuff.

I'm new into the prosumer video world. I bought a used canon XH A1 a few months ago and I've been using a crappy tripod my grandfather let me have. It 'works', but its not really made to hold the full 5 pounds of my XH A1 and the legs are starting to mess up.

I would like it to cost less than $75, go up to at least 60 inches high and have some sort of bubble level on it. Beyond that, the extra features dont really matter. As long as it pans and tilts smoothly and is pretty stable I'll be happy. I dont really need an adjustable head on it as that probably costs more and I dont mind leveling it by adjusting the legs.

Steven,

I'm afraid you're not going to get that functionality for $75. You can have cheap, or you can have good, but in the world of tripods you can't have both.

I wouldn't trust a $75 tripod to even hold my camera, let alone try to get smooth pans and tilts out of it.

- You need to spend $1000 on something like a Sachtler FSB-6 to get good results.
- You can get acceptable results on a Libec LS-38 (around $600).
- You can get sort of acceptable results on a Bogen/Manfrotto 503 for around the same price.

At a pinch, you could use a Libec LS-22 for around $380 (but don't expect too much from it).

A sub-$75 tripod is a toy. Sorry, it's tough, but I have to say that. You couldn't even take your hand off the camera and walk away without fear of a $3000 camera falling over and hitting the ground.

Normally I would take the view that everyone has to start somewhere - but with a camera of that spec and price, an ultra cheap tripod is just too risky in my opinion.

Mike, there is no way I can afford a $1,000 tripod. I'm a student with a very tight budget. I can probably go up to $150, but I'd rather not. I've used a $20 tripod from walmart with that camera (and a lighter one) with no problems. Besides, the smoothness of a pan has more to do with the operator than the actual tripod.

Hi Steven,

Sorry, but the smoothness of the pan is very much a *combination* of operator skill plus the quality of the tripod head. You can't get lemonade from a lemon no matter how talented you are with the pan handle. Mike's advice is spot on, but if you're not able to afford a good $1000 tripod then you might want to consider watching our Private Classifieds forum and look for a decently used one, they will show up from time to time.

Also, try a little creative financing. As Mike points out, at the very least you'll need a budget of close to $400 for the bare basic Libec LS-22. There are a number of ways in which you can raise this money, including temporary part-time work (true story: back in 1985 when I was a struggling college student, I spent a couple of late Saturday nights at the local city newspaper distribution center folding inserts into the Sunday morning paper... not at all glamorous, but it was short-term work that gave me the extra cash I needed that month). And you might look around your stuff for anything of value that you don't need to keep anymore, and put it on EBay. One person's junk is another's treasure, and you'd be surprised how easy and quick it is to generate some extra cash that way.

A $75 tripod is a hinderance at best -- get rid of it. Target a decent set of sticks such as the Libec and then work toward acquiring them. You need only the will and the effort to make it happen.

Hey Steven,

Just to throw my 2 cents in, you have yourself a nice camcorder, you will definitely want, if not need at least an entry level tripod with fluid head. The tripod and head really can make or break your shot (not to mention break your camcorder if the tripod falls over)

Libec just provided an extension until this Friday on the promo's I have mentioned in the "Sticky" section above. The LS22 system really is about as cheap of a system you want to go with to get satisfactory results on your panning with your XHA1 camcorder. I would normally recommend the LS38 system, but do understand your situation with your budget.

Best advice, if you can't afford the right tripod now, hold off and save some extra money until you can. Or, Christmas is right around the corner, put a bug in your friends and family's ears and maybe they can team toghether to get you a nice gift!

Best of Luck to you!
Scott Cantrell - DVinfo Sponser
tapeworksscott@sbcglobal.net
866-827-3489

Instead of a $75 tripod, get a $20 tripod from craigslist - and talk them down to $10. That will give you something to support your camera with, and you'll be able to take good fixed shots if there is no wind. You'll be able to do bad pans and tilts, but it might be all you need for a while.

Rather than a tripod, you might find a friend with an electric saw and drill and buy some aluminum from Home Depot or Lowes to build a shoulder rig. You can work BMX handles over square 1/2" aluminum tubes. You can bend some strap material to form to your chest and shoulder. Total cost should be just over $50, depending on how much you scrap on your first prototype.

A shoulder rig isn't a tripod head, but viewers won't know if you used a $50 homebuilt job or a $2,000 Zacuto setup. If you build it well and paint it black, people outside of the business will think it's totally pro.

Essentially, it will allow you to be a human tripod head. :)

Libec just provided an extension until this Friday on the promo's I have mentioned in the "Sticky" section above. The LS22 system really is about as cheap of a system you want to go with to get satisfactory results on your panning with your XHA1 camcorder. I would normally recommend the LS38 system, but do understand your situation with your budget.


A Libec LS22 for approx. $340???
Steven, order NOW! (if feasible, of course...)
I have an A1 & use a Libec LS22:
yes, it might be borderline (weight-wise), but it works pretty well,
the Libec head is smooth (much better then a Manfrotto, which I owned before),
and the whole contraption is pretty lightweight
(that's why I bought it in the first place).
Oh, and it's really really cheap!

Just my two cents, of course...

Best

Vasco

Why is it that folks that are on a "tight budget" and can't afford to spend any money at all on tripod systems, somehow have the funds to get first class HD cameras like the XH-A1s? I fully understand limited budgets. What bothers me is mis-allocated limited budgets.

Because I spent all my money on the camera now I want to even my budget out around other things. I used a cheap crappy tripod on a shoot yesterday. I think it was made for still cameras and I got some nice pans on it with no bumps or imperfections or anything. I just had it as loose as I could and just used a steady hand. I would keep using if the legs weren't messed up. Since no one can recommend me a cheap tripod, what are some of the best brands I should look at?

Since no one can recommend me a cheap tripod, what are some of the best brands I should look at?

Bottom line is that no one can recommend a cheap tripod because no one CAN recommend a cheap tripod, there simply is nothing to recommend.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent you using the cheapest, nastiest stills tripod for video if you can put up with the imperfections, and imperfections there will be.

You may not notice them now but you will at some point. Then it is simply a question of your pain threshold.

If you can accept this basic fact now, you can start working on the piggy bank to afford what the posters here on DVinfo consider the bare minimum for shooting HD succesfully, and, of course, everybody's mileage varies.

The Libecs mentioned previously seem to be a firm favourite at the bottom of the food chain and seem to outperform Manfrotto which are nevertheless popular.

Often overlooked but worth looking at are the Vinten Pro 6 system:

Vinten | PRO-06-HDVM Protouch Lightweight Tripod | PRO-6HDVM (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/499049-REG/Vinten_PRO_6HDVM_PRO_06_HDVM_Protouch_Lightweight_Tripod.html)

which keep the entire package below 4 digits.

With every step upwards from these the piggy bank needs fattening considerably, the amount of pork inevitably tied to that pain threshold.

Mine must be extraordinarilly low as my support rig set me back in excess of $5K, but I sleep real good at nights 'cause I've never once had to say to myself "I should have spent more money!"


CS

PS: As an excercise you might want to spend some time playing with piggy bank figures as compared to what's available here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Tripod-Systems/ci/3909/N/4291074044

My personal belief is that any system under a grand is pretty quickly going to go head to head with that pain threshold, but don't mind me, I'm anal.

Not to put a damper on new conversation, but haven't we been over this problem far too many times already?

Please read this:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/tripod-sticks-heads/239172-tripod-camera-why-why-why.html

Chris Hurd: We need a sticky on this. Whether it is my thread or a new one or someone else's, we need something where people can see the folly of cheapo tripods and then get answers on how to get what they should be getting instead of arguing with new people every time that they are looking at things the wrong way.

As I try to say in the thread I have referenced, a tripod system is not just some lump of material that exists between the camera and the ground, it is an integral part of the final image. As such, the tripod system demands, yes demands, as much consideration in the budget as the camera itself. It is better to not have a tripod at all and just hold the camera than waste money on junk that will ruin the shot or worse break the camera.