If you start looking more seriously @ the Bogen route you might want to look locally :p

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=86460

:)

(noticed the threads while looking @ new posts :)

In that price range, most heads you'll find will be flat-base heads. It's a HUGE time saver to have a leveling ball, so you don't have to be absolutely perfect when setting the heights of your legs. Bogen makes a nice, inexpensive set of legs that incorporates a column and system to level flat-base heads. The number is 756B and it comes in kits with a few different heads. Its a cheap way to get decent lightweight legs that level a cheap head.

Alternatively, the Libec LS-22 is just barely in your range, and while its overall capacity is lower than the 501, it's a fair bit smoother, and it's a true fluid head (from what users say) with a 75mm leveling ball, whereas the 501 is a lubricated friction system. That's not to say you can't get good results with the 501 - it just takes a lot of patience and delicacy. The 501 will be a lot more durable in terms of throwing it around and putting it in checked-baggage. But the Ls-22 system is smoother, I have tried both. Unless money is no object, any tripod system will be some balance between features, performance, durability and personal preference. You could spend $400 or $4000 (seriously!) on a tripod for your exact camera, but in the end if you get great results, it doesn't matter what you spent - nobody will look at your footage and say "hey that pan looked like a bogen 501 head, but your tilt was more O'connor 1030b-ish." If you practice with your own kit to the point where you're comfortable, it'll be smooth enough to be invisible.

Bought the a1 love in it
mostly a photograher here just starting to get into video
any recommendations for an all purpose
tripod and head
not to heavy?

Congrats on your new Canon A1, but if you've any tripod questions then post it here. http://dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=118

Also, I use the Libec LS-38 which is a very nice tripod and not very expensive.

deleted message

I looking for a good tripod system for the Canon A1. I will use most of the time inside, but my first big project (two weeks in the forest, making hunting video) will be outside.
I looking these two system:

Cartoni F101 Focus
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=3909&A=details&Q=&sku=366495&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

or
Sachtler DV-2IISL
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=3909&A=details&Q=&sku=382472&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

The Schactler's leg is Carbon Fiber, but both has a same weight. In the forest I think I need a light system. Also, I wonder if I can add spike feet to these legs.
Or some cheaper Bogen system is enough?
Any recommendation?

Thanks: Laszlo

I've owned two Sachtler systems and loved them both, but I just sold both of them as I'm moving to smaller form cameras and after doing a lot of looking around, the Gitzo system at http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=7014&A=details&Q=&sku=206504&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
is the best value in my not so humble opinion. It works with loads from 2 to 22 pounds, but I've seen it loaded with a Sony F900 (a beast) with no problems. It uses different springs you can swap to allow a variety of different weights to be used, so no matter how much stuff you load on the cam you are not going to overload it. At 9.5 pounds, and a shoulder strap included, you could easily carry this anywhere. And while the stock handle which tightens the head is too long to lower the sticks as far down as they go, Bogen will send you a replacement knob which WILL allow you to go as low as you can (forgot buying baby legs).

Thanks I have two of this Gitzo system, but it's way too heavy in the forest.

If you use the Sachtler 6SB head there is no need to buy the extra C.O.G. DV-2 plate, to bring the A1 in balance. You can use the standard camera plate that is standard with the head, change the pin setting and attach it to the XH-A1. (I know that you need the extra DV plate $ for use with the Sony V1).

So, The 503 is a good deal and its pretty easy to get over the limitation of the 503.

How do you get around the limitations? I was looking for a tripod for a soon-to-be-purchased A1, and the 501/525 combo is accessible here. But sounds like that may not be a good bet?

Mark,

However, I generally recommend the Libec LS55 as it has Strong and weak torque change for pan and tilt where the LS38 does not. The LS55 system runs for $849.00 with the mid-level spreader.

If you have any questions on the Libec systems or any of the others (Bogen, Vinten, Miller) Please contact me at TapeWorks and I would be glad to provide any information you need.

Best Regards,
Scott Cantrell
TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser
866-827-3489 TOLL FREE
tapeworksscott@sbcglobal.net

Scott,

You recommended the LS-55 with the mid-level spreader. Can you provide a few details about the pro's and cons of the mid-level vs. the floor spreader and why you suggest the former? Thanks. I am thinking I might follow your advice even though I just purchased some brand new Bogen 3246 legs on eBay and was planning on putting a Bogen 503 on it. :-(

I like a Manfrotto 055MF4 Magfiber Pro Carbon Tripod with a Manfrotto 3502 Compact Leveling Head - Ball Camera Leveller with a Manfrotto 3130 Micro Fluid Head. This easily supports my Canon XH-A1 and is extremely portable.

Works Great!

If you use the Sachtler 6SB head there is no need to buy the extra C.O.G. DV-2 plate, to bring the A1 in balance. You can use the standard camera plate that is standard with the head, change the pin setting and attach it to the XH-A1. (I know that you need the extra DV plate $ for use with the Sony V1).Raymond, how are you liking this setup?

I'm really torn between the DV6 SB and the Vinten Vision 3. I know the DV6 is more $$, but you don't have to change springs. I just got off the phone Vinten and they said a #2 spring would be ideal for the XH-A1, but if I anticipate adding a mattebox, etc. go with the #3 spring. I really don't feel like having to switch between springs and futs around with rebalancing too much. As for the Vinten Vision 6, they said that would probably be too much for such a light camera.

Hi everyone,

Did a search of forums but could not find anything specific on this.

I am trying to decide between to bogen video heads for the Canon XH A1.
The bogen 503 or the bogen 516.

Questions:

Are both heads identical in technology, but just different load capacities?

Considering the relatively light weight of the XH A1, is going with the bigger 516 head better than the 503?

...Or should I be concerned with matching up the camera's weight with the right size head such as the 503?



Thanks,

Mark

I am using the 503 with the XH-A1, with the 523PRO remote control (a real plus I would highly recommend, even with the Push AF limitation for Canon camcorders). I have not used the 516.

I am quite satisfied with the setup, even though it is not perfect. One of the issues is in the counter balance spring, which is not adjustable. It is not far off, though. Looking at the spec sheet, I guess the 516 would be definitely worse in this regard, as the spring is designed for a 16.5lbs camcorder vs. 5.5lbs for the 503.

Why does this matter? Imagine you balance the camcorder (by adjusting the locking position of the quick release plate on the head). It will then stay horizontal at minimal friction. If you then tilt the camcorder up or down, it should ideally stay at the angle you select without having to lock it in position. With the XH-A1 on the 503, the position will slowly shift as the spring strength does not exactly match the camera. But this should be significantly worse with the 516.

The new 503HDV head, introduced at NAB and scheduled for release this summer, might not be much better than the 503 in this regard. Sure, it has an adjustable counter balance spring, but it is not continuous, with only 4 positions. Not sure one will be a closer match than the 503.

--
Fred

Frederic,

Thanks for your reply. I did notice the new version of the 503, the 503HDV is not available until July from B&H. That figures, very tough for me to get the regualr 503 when I know the other model is due out. Unfortunatley I need a head within a couple of weeks. I was doing some searches and saw the Gitzo G2180. I do not know anything about this head and searches turned up very little.

Does anyone have experiance with the G2180?

How does it compare with the Bogen 503 or 516?

Thanks,

Mark

Budget allows getting the DS-10 for the XH-A1. Would this be overkill? Would the Libec LS-55M or 38M be a better match..?
Thx, Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The DS10 is definitely not overkill, its a great head and works extremely well with my Z1 and previous PD150. The canon will fit it fine and its well worth the money.

Joe,
Thanks for the endorsement..! Just as well, as it's already on order..!
NZ, eh..? always fancied a trip down there to do a spot of trout fishing; heard it's pretty good.. (I'm British, but born in OZ, left when I was 3, never been back but always yearned to get back down to your part of the world...)
Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am looking at the 755B legs, similar to 745.
May I ask why the 503 head? What are the advantages over 501HDV, specifically for XH-A1?

unfortunately, you will almost always sacrifice some stability for portability. i would recommend a tripod kit with a half ball as this will make shooting level shots much easier, regardless of terrain. this kit, coming in at less than 9 lbs, looks like it might suit you...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=341514&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Hello,
I too have XH A1 and am wondering, how good is Manfrotto 525MVB Tripod?
It's a part of the 503/525 kit I can get here.

My needs would primary be shooting outdoors, including taking the tripod on hikes.

Thanks

May I ask why the 503 head? What are the advantages over 501HDV, specifically for XH-A1?

From what I've read, the 503 is a true fluid head while the 501 is only fluid-like. As a 501 owner, I have to agree. Horizontal movement is quite nice on the 501, but the tilt movement is often started with jerk that is totally visible in the footage. Perhaps this is due to my lack of grace with only a Sony VX2000 or Z1U.

Anyway, compare the use of the term "fluid head" in the specs :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/162660-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_3433_3433_501_Pro_Video.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/492158-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_503HDV_503HDV_Fluid_Head.html

Andreas,

I just received a set of 525mvb legs. I have a miller head on them and I am very pleased with them so far and I have used them about 2 hours of taping. They have a floor spreader and it is very easy to use. They fold up inside. they are kind of bulky. I am making a Velcro strap to put around them to hold them together when not in use but being carried by hand. There is no torsion movement that is noticable and my miller head can be relatively stiff for slow easy pans. They are reasonably easy to use and set up quickly. They are are fairly heavy but not excessive to me.

From what I've read, the 503 is a true fluid head while the 501 is only fluid-like. As a 501 owner, I have to agree. Horizontal movement is quite nice on the 501, but the tilt movement is often started with jerk that is totally visible in the footage. Perhaps this is due to my lack of grace with only a Sony VX2000 or Z1U.

Anyway, compare the use of the term "fluid head" in the specs :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/162660-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_3433_3433_501_Pro_Video.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/492158-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_503HDV_503HDV_Fluid_Head.html

I get some very nice tilts/pans with my 501... still learning... but on a budget for $400 with legs and a case (that I fly with) I couldn't be happier...

http://www.lousyheros.com/videos/xpslpat.wmv I agree some parts are bad, and other parts are very smooth, this was the first time out with my new cam (HDR-FX7) and this tripod, still figuring out how to level it better, the terrain I was on was uneven (on the sidelines) and still getting used to all of it... like at 7-9 seconds... I didn't notice any jerk when I stopped...

And at :26, that's my fault... not the tripod :)

I get some very nice tilts/pans with my 501... still learning... but on a budget for $400 with legs and a case (that I fly with) I couldn't be happier...

... I didn't notice any jerk when I stopped...



I'm talking about the slight jerk when starting a tilt with the 501. Perhaps I just need to master the head and even use a longer tripod arm.

Can anyone can give me a good recomendation on a these tripod. I'm on a budget, but I've been looking on other sites and I've seen a couple in my price range, I don't want to spend over $380. This is what I've seen:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481934-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto__BO3021BN501H_Video_Tripod_System.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243272-REG/Davis_Sanford_PROVISTA7518_Pro_Vista_Tripod_with.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/329000-REG/Smith_Victor_700101_Propod_V_Aluminum_2_Stage.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/376871-REG/Libec_LS22ZC3_LS_22_Aluminum_Tripod_System.html

I guess these are the low end prosumer tripods which fine with me, my main concern is durability and weight support for my A1. And all of these range from 9lbs-17lbs in support therefore I'm good. But anyways, tell me what you all think and if you have used any of these? Thank you everyone. :)

For the money, Libec. I use the TH-M20 too.

I also have that Davis and Sanford. It's not too good.

I have this tripod:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/482275-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_501HDV055BK_BO3221WN501H_Video_Tripod_System.html

It's looks like it's the next step up from the Manfrotto you had picked out. This kit comes with a bag, and let me tell you, YOU WILL WANT A BAG. I wouldn't go anywhere without a bag for my A1, and I wouldn't go anywhere without a bag for my tripod.

The 3221 Tripod is awesome, and then you put the 501HDV head on it and youv'e got the best tripod under $500 for only $409.

One quick question. Do you do most of your filming indoors or outdoors. If indoors then you might want a tripod with a ground spreader like the Libec. If you do most of your filming outdoors then the Manfrotto will be great.

Really, cool. Yeah the Davis & Sanford looks good but looks are a different story when you try it. Thanks Eric, I notice the TH-M20 is less than the LS-22, hmmmm... saves me a little but still a good tripod, cool. Thanks again. I'll get a couple more recomendation then I'll grab one of them. :)

Yeah, I saw that one too Kevin, good look man. Yeah I do want a bag, as far as my A1 I bought the 1510 Pelican case for it, so I'm covered regarding the A1. Yes I will be doing inside and outside shooting, mostly interviews, music videos & short skits for my cable access-show. But I will start doing some small films too, but that's to come because I'm still new at all this but I'm learning fast. So thanks for the recomendation. :)

I bought the LS-22 from B&H a couple of weeks ago. So far I have been very happy with it. The ball head is great because it makes leveling it so easy. I would not buy a tripod without the ball head now.

Overall the quality on the Libec seems really great, I dont have fears about it falling apart. The included accessories didnt really factor into my purchase but in hindsight the included bag was a great feature. The free zoom controller is also pretty good and works much better than using the on camera zoom switch.

I wish it had some adjustments for the pan and tilt frictions. It just has locks for them, but the even without adjustable friction, the default settings are pretty smooth. It does have some nice counterbalance settings which allowed me to get the camera to balance perfectly on the head even if the camera is pretty front heavy when I attach accessories to it.

I had a chance to look at the Davis and Sanford one in person at B&H and I have to say I wasnt to impressed with it. The design of it seemed pretty poor in that the pan locks kept rubbing against other parts of the tripod and gouging the plastic up; it was basically grinding itself to pieces..

Wow, cool Brian. Thanks for sharing, yeah the LS-22 looks pretty good. :)

How does the Libec LS-22 compare to the Manfrotto 503 or Vinten Pro 6?

I put my Manfrotto on ebay a while back and bought the Libec LS 38 instead.
First impressions were that the build qality was not as good and the legs were a bit plasticky, while the bag it came in is cheap and nasty compared to the Manfrotto.
3 months later i can tell you that in spite of the observations above the Libec is far superior in the most important respect. The head is silky smooth and feels like a £1000 plus bit of kit. Pans and tilts are fabulous with this head, while tilting pans are effortless. Its also significantly lighter than the Manfrotto.
Of course i wish i'd hung onto the old bag.

Hi Dom, was it the 503HD version or just the regular 503?

I got the Libec LS22 because of it's light weight, and because it folds down pretty short. It's better built than I expected, and the head is perfectly smooth for both tilt and pan. There is no tension adjustment, though there is a lever that increases tilt tension a bit.

While the motion is smooth, like any of the cheap heads, you can't just pan to a spot and let go of the handle and expect it to stay there, as the better heads do. There's always a little bounceback at the end of a pan, so you have to pay attention and develop a bit of steadiness. Not a problem once you get accustomed to it, but as with almost all things, the cheaper it is, the less user-friendly it is.

I got mine from Zotz Digital and was very pleased with their service. I ordered the one with the center spreader, but the warehouse shipped it with ground spreader. The guy at Zotz was apologetic, called the distributor,and within 3 days I had he center spreader, with a note that said keep the ground spreader too, no charge.

I got the Libec LS22 because of it's light weight, and because it folds down pretty short. It's better built than I expected, and the head is perfectly smooth for both tilt and pan. There is no tension adjustment, though there is a lever that increases tilt tension a bit.

While the motion is smooth, like any of the cheap heads, you can't just pan to a spot and let go of the handle and expect it to stay there, as the better heads do. There's always a little bounceback at the end of a pan, so you have to pay attention and develop a bit of steadiness. Not a problem once you get accustomed to it, but as with almost all things, the cheaper it is, the less user-friendly it is.

I got mine from Zotz Digital and was very pleased with their service. I ordered the one with the center spreader, but the warehouse shipped it with ground spreader. The guy at Zotz was apologetic, called the distributor,and within 3 days I had he center spreader, with a note that said keep the ground spreader too, no charge.

Thats great information, as I was considering the LS-22. Do others who own the LS-38 have similar issues with the "Bounce-Back"? and is there tension adjustment on the 38?

Thanks again for the info Bill..

Do others who own the LS-38 have similar issues with the "Bounce-Back"? and is there tension adjustment on the 38?


This review might answer some of your questions about the LS-38:
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=150

He calls it "drift back" instead of bounce back, and that's probably a better description. I'm amazed too that the 38 does not do it. Unless you want the smaller and lighter 22, I'd go for the 38.

What I normally do on a pan where I'm zoomed in quite a bit is, when I reach the end, push on the lock lever at the end of the move. That solves the problem. On a wider shot you can usually hold it steady enough so it's not noticeable.

well I just took the plunge and ordered the LS-38 from videokit.co.uk for my A1... who are selling it £100 cheaper than everyone else.

Has anyone had any experience with the Gitzo G2380 head? I have a Canon XH A1 and am looking for a good "fluid" head that is not too expensive.

Do any of you have any recommendations on which would be a better fit for my Canon XH A1. Has anyone had first hand experience with either or both of these. I am a novice with this camera, have had it about a month and am looking for a fairly inexpensive tripod setup. I will use it for mostly dance recital filming and stage shows so paning is my biggest concern but I do anticipate some tilts.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. This is a great forum.

Thanks

There is a better Cartoni for you than the Action Pro for about $100 more which is called the HiDV. It has continuously variable counter-balance which is a big step up from the Action Pro's on and off counter balance. I almost bought an Action Pro but fortunately saw this just in time and bought it instead for my son's Canon HV20. Here's the link to the Cartoni site's description. You can buy this at B&H (DVinfo sponsor) for a good price.

http://www.cartoni.com/eng/HIDV.html

The other Cartoni to look at is the Focus, which is a few hundred dollars more but will counter-balance a lot more weight (up to 22 lbs.) and has the lighted leveling bubble.

Tip McPartland

I've no experience with the Cartoni, but I've used the Libec 950DV under my VX2100. It's effectively an LS-22 head on a lighter tripod. I've even married the LS-22 head to the more heavyweight LS-37 legs.

It's OK for wider angles, and the pan and tilt is quite good for the price. But when you're zoomed in even at 12x it can be difficult to keep it absolutely stable unless you're locked off (or hands off), and my hands aren't overly shakey. I've yet to get the opportunity to get my hands on any really good tripods (such as Sachtlers and Vintens), so have nothing to compare with.

Mind you, the LS-22 costs around £200($400) versus the more expensive Cartoni HiDV (£600/$1200). Maybe yer gets what yer pays for!

Wow Tip, you're a really nice dad! Would you be interested in adopting another son?

Actually the only reason I'm considering the Cartoni Action is because I may be able to get this set up for around $450. My budget is realythe sub $500 range so I've been looking into th Libec and Bogen/Manfrotto combos. I did look at the HiDV and the Focus for about 10 seconds just to drool over them but they are way out of my budget, maybe later but I need a decent setup now.

Thanks for the input.

Garrett,
I have an XHA1 and tried the LS-22 and didn't find it sturdy enough. I ended up with the LS-38 and love it. It's not built quite as well as the Cartoni or Sachtler but for $600 it's a great set of sticks.

Garrett,

Let me check with wifey on that one... but seriously, thanks for the kind words. Anything to get the boys into something creative instead of just the video games!

What makes the HiDV so tempting is that it's basically a down-sized Focus with the same continuously adjustable counterbalance. So it only holds 11 lbs. instead of 22, for these cameras that's all you need.

Having good counter balance so the camera doesn't want to tilt up or down by itself will reduce fatigue and forgive small lapses of concentration. Hmmm, maybe neither of these issues is a problem for you, but I must confess...

Tip

Does anyone know if the Cartoni HiDV head be purchased alone, without legs? No luck finding it so far. I want to use it with my lighter weight carbon fiber gitzo legs. Thanks,

Has anyone had any experience with the Gitzo G2380 head? I have a Canon XH A1 and am looking for a good "fluid" head that is not too expensive.

I have the Gitzo G2380 paired with the Gitzo G-1321 Level Base and the Gitzo G-1348 legs - using them with the Canon GL2 camcorder. I find it a very good setup for me.

I am saving up to buy the XH-A1, and plan on using this setup with them - I'm assuming there's no reason they won't work just as well with the somewhat heavier camcorder. If someone has reason to believe that's a bad assumption on my part - please let me know!!