I apologize, first off, because I realize this post is similar to many others, but I did not really get the answers I was looking for from the similar posts.

What is the best configuration for a film-like, cinematic result on the DSR-PD150. I know this is kind of subjective, but what is my best bet here.

basically want to know:

progressive on or off?

shutter speed? some people suggest 1/30, some suggest 1/60

DV or DVCAM mode?

anything else?

Hi Matt, welcome to DVinfo!

1. You don't want progressive on the PD-150 unless you're going for something very stylized. It isn't comparable to the progressive mode on modern cameras; you will be shooting at 15 frames per second, only half the speed of normal video (which is 30 fps, or 60 interlaced fields). You will get a jerky, stroboscopic effect in progressive mode; try a little test (be sure that it has moving objects and some camera movement to really see the effect).

2. Personally I'd use 1/60 sec. You might like the look at 1/30 sec because it will give you motion blur which is more like 24fps film, but there's a downside. The way the PD-150 does 1/30 sec exposures results in half of the data getting discarded, so you lose a significant amount of resolution at that speed. Actually, it's a little more complicated than this, but you definitely lose vertical resolution because you are effectively only using 240 of the 480 available scan lines in the image. As a better alternative, use a de-interlacer to process your footage afterwards. The better software preserves more of your resolution by treating the static and moving parts of the image differently. Depending on your platform, there are a variety of solutions. DVFilm Maker is a standalone application that works pretty well on both Macs and PC's - download the free trial and see if you like it.

3. DV vs DVCAM: no difference whatsoever. The image and audio quality are identical - the same 1's and 0's are written to tape. However the way it's recorded is different, and Sony claims DVCAM is more robust, less prone to errors on the tape. Do a search on the topic, it's been discussed a lot. If you're shooting something that would be impossible to replace, it can't hurt to use DVCAM, but you will also use 50% more tape because DVCAM runs at a higher speed.

Thanks for all the info!

I have magic bullet for adobe after-effects as far as de-interlacing goes, and I have played around with it. I'm not exactly sure how to work it though, hah.

The rendering times seem ridiculous, are they supposed to be?

I edit on a dell dual core 3.0 ghz, 2GB Ram, 250 GB Hard drive, NVIDIA 7800 GTX GPU.

Hi Matt,

Generally the issues for getting a "film look" out of the PD150 are the same for most video cameras. You can't really get a film look out of the box with any DV camera (and progressive or 30/sec shutter will look pretty bad).

General tips are:
Underexpose by a stop.
Open the iris as much as possible (use ND filters and shutter speed to compensate for exposure).
Get your subject away from the background as much as possible
in Custom Preset dial the sharpness down.
De-interlace in post.
Light the scene to be fairly low contrast and then add contrast in post.

Hey Matt, i found a neat trick over at the sony boards, and there is a way to simulate close to 24 frames or a better progressive scan, go into digital effects on the camera, and choose flash, then scroll the flash bars all the down and then just turn it up once, until a single bar appears and u got it. as for film look, make sure you get good lighting, white balance, and frame the shot well. Magic bullet will be very useful. The 150 is a great camera and you can do wonders with it.

awesome, thanks guys : )

Hmm, I wonder if you get the full resolution with this trick. I'll try it myself with my PD170.

can you let me know about the resolution?

Interesting. I have VX2000, never realized that was there. I shot a few shots, seems like resolution drops off a bit. Any idea what is actually going on in the camera. Is that progressive ?

1.) Make sure you're in manual mode.
2.) Shoot in 1/60th. Nothing higher, nothing lower.
3.) Expose your scene by letting your camera go "auto", then switch the exposure to manual mode (damn it if only Canon had this feature)
4.) Use some lighting - don't shoot with "natural light".
5.) Capture your footage and run it through DVFILM available from www.dvfilm.com - this is the easiest fastest fool proof method with the least amount of tinkering and screwing around.
6.) Watch your film and be happy with the results.

By the way I've seen flash mode on the VX2000 (would be the same on PD150/170) mixed with 60i converted to 24p and to my surprise I could honestly not tell the difference from which was which.

i gotta admit, on the little lcd screen, this looks pretty damn good! it's compareable to the 1/30th but with less blur. i havent captured it yet so i'm still curious to see how the resolution is...i assume it's decent.

do any of you guys have more little secrets about my cam that i dont know about? haha

Like I said I've seen the flash mode trick mixed with 60i->24p converted footage and been impressed (and it takes a lot to impress me when it comes to simulated 24p footage).

Another trick? Yeah - always get your camera's iris to near zero of completely open to get a more narrow depth of field. Outdoors you will surely need to use a ND filter.

Post some samples when you get a chance!

How would you process this Flash technique in the NLE ? Are actually doing just a 24p project ? Do you have to do some sort of pull down processing ?

No the signal unfortunately is still NTSC 29.97 60i. Your footage only has the illusion of 24p when played back at 29.97/60i.

I have a friend who shot a feature length film using the VX2000 combining flash mode and with regular footage put through DVfilm - since I know DVfilm can actually create 24p footage from 60i sources I will ask him if he's ever tried creating 24p from the flash footage.

By the way DVfilm is a really good program if you need 24p but only have a 60i camera! The guy who wrote the program, Marcus does DV to film transfers so this guy knows his stuff.

Check out www.dvfilm.com there is a trial version you can play around with there.

Thanks Dennis. I'll shoot some Flash footage with my VX2000, as well as the standard, and post it here for comparison--tonight I hope.

You can check out this trailer for a feature length film I know was shot with the VX2000 using both modes as I have described.

www.deleoproductions.com/prosandcons.htm

Click on "trailer"

In the opening scene of that trailer there are some obvious pulldown artefacts (look at the pans across the bead curtain in the opening shots). But as this is a WMV i can't tell if that's a result of 24p footage being forced into 30 fps or vise versa. Anyway - it is indicative of what you would get if you wanted to change 30p into 24p.

If you want 24p then DO NOT shoot in the flash mode - shoot with 60i and then use DVfilm Maker. It's a bad idea to mix modes. BTW the flash mode drops a field, so you do get a resolution drop and jaggy edges on diagonal lines if distributing at full res'.

edit: OK - got it - it's 30fps.

In the opening scene of that trailer there are some obvious pulldown artefacts (look at the pans across the bead curtain in the opening shots). But as this is a WMV i can't tell if that's a result of 24p footage being forced into 30 fps or vise versa. Anyway - it is indicative of what you would get if you wanted to change 30p into 24p.

I've seen the original rough cut on DVD and there is no artifacting like there is in the trailer. We speculated it was something to do with the conversion to WMV but never figured it out.

If you want 24p then DO NOT shoot in the flash mode - shoot with 60i and then use DVfilm Maker. It's a bad idea to mix modes. BTW the flash mode drops a field, so you do get a resolution drop and jaggy edges on diagonal lines if distributing at full res'.

edit: OK - got it - it's 30fps.

Yes if possible avoid it if you can. But if shooting a feature for a duration of 30 days sooner or later someone is going to forget to turn the flash mode on or off. My point was more to say that visually there was very little difference between the flash mode and DVFilm'ed footage. Believe me, I was surprised too! Maybe once someone can post some sample footage the results will be more conclusive. I have not seen many jaggies on flash footage - I wonder if my friend had some other tricks up his sleeve?

I guess the sure way is to try it yourself and compare. I just remember being VERY suprised at the results.

Cheers all!

hey guys, just wanted to let you know i shot a couple clips with this flash mode on so you could see what it looks like. the only thing is i dont know where the best place is to upload it in it's raw form. i dont want to have to compress it too much, but i'll go see about putting it on youtube for now until you guys can give me some other options.

i'll post the link on here soon.

the only thing is i dont know where the best place is to upload it in it's raw form.archive.org will host your footage.

archive.org will host your footage.

i got as far as uploading the file when i found out that being a mac user i'd have to go download an ftp client to upload, i dont like having to put new programs on here, i like to keep my computer running on the essentials.

anyways, i did however upload the file on yousendit. if you dont already have one, you'll need to create an account to download the file but it only takes a second to do so and it's handy to have.


here's the link:
http://download.yousendit.com/066282E169AAD756

it's only two shots, the first one is intentionally jerky because i wanted to show how the footage holds up when you move around fast. the second shot is slower and it's to show how the lines don't pixelate. they do however look blurred, but if you step your marker along the timeline frame by frame you can see that the blurriness is just an illusion.

overall this setting has a very nice effect, it sort of makes me think of 28 days later, when the zombies are running and it's all fast..
i'd like to see if other people had similar results, put it up when you get a chance.

This clip has the flash on first, then flash off, second:

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/dragonflyflashtest.avi

Looks to me like resolution is off, as reported, but you be the judge. Right click, save target, please !!

Yes I see the subtle jaggies on the flash mode clip. Pretty odd indeed.

Here's the entire clip again but now run through DVfilm Maker. The file is still 29.97fps but is simulated to look like 24p footage transferred to 29.97fps.

Only remember the first portion of the clip is "flash" mode and the second part is regular 60i. Funny that after running both clips through DVfilm the jaggies from the flash clip actually diminish quite substantially?! This must be what my friend did and why I didn't think flash mode created jaggies so obvious.

Strange indeed. I would just suggest you shoot 60i to be safe and process it through Magic Bullet or DV Film Maker.

www.starcentral.ca/dvinfo/dragonfly-dvfilmed.avi
( please right click and save target as )