Ok I want an A1 but im hinging in the HVX. Price is an issue but I want to make sure and hear it from the horses mouth that its not just "the poor mans HD." Heres my take:

1) I owned an XL2 before that im selling so I know Canon
2) Its basically an HD XL2, shuved in a solid GL2 body, with more manual control and some other things
3) Its $3538 from a trusted seller I use
4) Its got XLR, even though it records HDV MPEG1 audio :/
5) Image is simply gorgeous
6) I can't zoom and focus at the same time, gah.
7) Eye piece sucks (fixable for cheap)
8) Its tape, but firestore could be possible later
9) Its stuck at 1080 and at 60i, 30, or 24p (f, whatever)
10) I also need a new tripod and mic

I think A1 is the right choice, maybe not the best choice if I had 10000 but point being, I dont. It will last me a bit I think. So what do you really love about your new camera, your likes and dislikes? Difficulties I should know about, etc. TELL ME EVERYTHING.

Btw, I have a MacPro so computer power isn't an issue.

- Kyle

The A1 is a great camcorder, apparently you have already done your research and already know the ins and outs of the specs, so from what I can see you just want somebody to push you to make the decision.

I am an A1 owner, and suggest it. I love it tremendously. If we can get the firmware fixed, then for the price, consider it a perfect cam.

If you have more money and dont care about p2, Get the HVX.

If you have even more money wait for red.

But if time is of concern, and you already have the funds allocated, by all means get the A1, you probably wont be dissapointed.

I think the important question is, what do you plan to shoot? You should start from there. I have both the HVX and the A1 and I love them both so you probably can't go wrong either way but again it will probably depend on how you intend to use it.

Recommending any camera without knowing the intended use is pretty difficult.

Having said that, for 3.5K the XH A1 can fill just about any shoes. 60i on 1 hour tapes for weddings or event gigs and 24F for film style work. The lens is extremely wide and offers a nice tele reach so you rarely - if ever - need an add-on. What can I say, for the money I just don't see a down side.

Hey, I wanted an HVX too, but at double the price for a working rig... couldn't do it.

I love:

1. Overall feel of the camera - it's solidly built and nicely balanced.
2. External controls - all of the controls you most frequently access are well placed physical switches on the outside of the camera.
3. Lens range - it's nice and wide at the wide end and the 20x zoom is more than enough for most things I'm doing.
4. Built in microphones - surprisingly good sound quality.
5. Image customization - from the factory the image is a little "lacklustre", but you can tweak it every-which-way and there are loads of pre-made customizations available (on this forum) which look really good.
6. Zoom speed - slow is really slow and fast is pretty quick
7. Resolution - there's a LOT of detail in the A1's image.
8. "F" mode - the "sudo" progressive scan looks great, only losing a tiny bit of resolution from interlaced modes.
9. HDV - the A1's HDV looks very good (no real compression issues). And recording to tape is a handy backup even when working direct to disc.

I dislike:

1. No simultanious zoom and focus - you cannot zoom and focus at the same time so no dolly-zooms or reframing and refocus.
2. CA/Fringing - Red/Green colour fringing is an occasional problem on high contrast edges under certain lighting conditions. It's certainly no worse than the V1 and much better than the HD100 stock lens, but for some reason I really notice it on this camera. I'm sure it's there on my FX1 too, but I never notice it - possibly because the image is much softer?
3. No OIS button - really a very minor niggle, but it's annoying all the same turning the OIS on and off in a menu everytime the camera goes on or comes off the tripod!

Overall score:

Personally I give this camera 8/10.

It will not focus and zoom at the same time in manual, but it will focus and zoom at the same time if you use auto focus like the push AF.

I've rented the HVX and have a G1. I do mostly corporate video, interviews, and much of it standing up in the OR shooting proceedures. The HVX is built like a tank, and not a good solution for long form, and adds much frustration to post.

The G1/A1 is more suited to my needs, and I don't mind tape. I had many issues with digital capture and it was a backup tape that saved the day. In the last five years I've only had one tape fail me. In which case I was able to recover much of the day by mending it. So don't knock tape yet.

Bottom line, what kind of nut (work) are you trying to turn will determine the proper wrench (camera) needed.

It will not focus and zoom at the same time in manual, but it will focus and zoom at the same time if you use auto focus like the push AF.

You're absolutely right - I hadn't thought about that... You can knock #1 off my dislike list.

You're absolutely right - I hadn't thought about that... You can knock #1 off my dislike list.

I wouldn't knock it off your list completely....are you really going to trust autofocus for critical shots? It seems like a potential workaround at best. I personally couldn;t stand to not be able to focus as I am slowly zooming in or out.

I wouldn't knock it off your list completely....are you really going to trust autofocus for critical shots? It seems like a potential workaround at best. I personally couldn;t stand to not be able to focus as I am slowly zooming in or out.

Well certainly I would have thought twice about the A1 over the V1 had I known that you couldn't zoom and focus manually at the same time (I've used Sonys and Panasonics for as long as I've been using these smaller prosumer cameras - so it never occured to me that a manufacturer might not give you zoom AND focus as an option). However, really it's once in a blue moon that I need to zoom and focus, and they're usually repeatable shots, so I'm happy that I can work around the issue to my satisfaction.

Kyle, I went through a lot of research trying to make the HVX200's P2 format work for me because I really liked the camera (mostly for the slomo capability and the fact it was fairly big and heavy compared to other "handycam" style cameras). I had seen some good looking footage from it, but overall, from that famous Texas Shootout, I liked the look of the XL H1 footage better (the A1 wasn't out yet when they did the tests, but it's the same image).

I normally shoot with a 2/3" chip camera (DSR500ws), but I wanted a lightweight HD camera for a personal documentary project. After rejecting the HVX200, I decided on the Sony Z1 and have shot a few things with one, as well as edited footage others have shot. The only thing that camera lacks is decent 24P. Then the A1 was announced; I waited for it, and I'm incredibly pleased with it. I'm shooting everything 24P (Canon calls it 24F--same thing), capturing with FCP with the 1080P24 setting, and the stuff is amazingly good. In fact, everybody who's seen the footage says it looks better than the exact same types of shots I do with the 2/3" chip DSR500. That's how good HDV is.

For interviews I normally use a Sennheiser MKH60 and sometimes a Sennheiser G2 wireless. Sound quality seems as good as the DSR500; nobody can tell the difference in sound quality. The built-in mic is good enough for ambient sfx, but I mounted an old Sony shotgun just so I could have that in channel 1 all the time, because sometimes I've forgot to switch back to the camera mic after doing an interview, and I like to have ambient sound on everything in case something good happens.

I got a Libec 22 tripod system. It's really lightweight and cheap (about 400 bucks from Zotz Digital, one of the sponsors). It seems sized very well for the A1. I also got a Canon tripod adapter plate for ease of use with other tripods I have.

So far the camera has surprised me with its quality and image control. The LCD screen is excellent with high enough resolution for focusing if you want. I rarely need to use the peaking or zoom up adjustment for focusing, but lots of people use that a lot. I haven't used the autofocus, but did determine you can zoom with it on and it works.

The only minor negative thing for me is that you have to go into the menu to turn on and off the OIS. That should be programmable in one of the custom buttons.

Thanks for the comments everyone! I have a thread just like this in the HVX General Section at DVXuser. (I like to hear from both ends in the same kind of topic to make my decision) A1 is still my official decision right now because of my money issue, and because it seems suited to do all around camera work as well as film if I want to.

My uses: (in order of personal and not necessarily business priority)

1) Film
2) Wedding
3) everything else ;P

Basically an all around camera, film is my real passion but the HVX is very expensive and I need a new tripod and mic also when I get a new camera.

I do have one issue over all of this....NOBODY WILL BUY MY DAMN XL2. Its 22hrs and practically new and nobody is even biting. I got people on here selling an XL2 over a year old or more for the same price and nobody is jumping on a $3000 22hr XL2, its insanity. Ah well hopefully I can sell it soon.

- Kyle

You may have the XL2 a bit overpriced, since you can get the XH A1 for about $3700 now. Your best target would to find somebody who has one and needs a second one for two camera shoots, but you might not get that price for it, even though it is practically new. The XL2 is, in my opinion, the best looking of any 1/3" chip SD camera, probably because it's the only one with 16:9 chips.

Let me add my thanks for the experiences related in this thread, especially those comparing with the Sony V1.

My short-list at the moment is FX7 or XH-A1, or maybe V1E. I don't expect I'll make much use of 25F/P (I need motion-friendly 50i) but I'm wondering if the extra audio options and all those image tweaks are worth paying 25% more for? I can't see that the V1E is worth a further 20% over the XH-A1, but maybe I'm missing something? (FX7 is selling for about £2k in the UK at the moment, XH-A1 is £2.4 - £2.7, V1E is £3K+.) I suppose I can't make a proper decision until I get my hands on them...

The V1 is a 1/4" chip camera and the XH A1 uses 1/3" chips, so that's what the major cost difference is. Smaller chips mean lesser low light performance and less depth of field control.

But the 1/4in on the V1 is smaller than the 1/3in chips on the A1 so that isn't correct. Besides they are CMOS chips which act very differently from CCD's

- Kyle

They are CMOS chips and look better that equivalent 1/4" CCD chips, in terms of latitude. But the same thing holds true for low light and depth of field. You can't violate the laws of physics.

I went back and forth between the XH A1 and the V1U for awhile. For me it came down to the color of the V1U image and the extra detail in the XH A1. A mexican stand off that was finally decided by a good price. I'm extremely pleased with the XH A1.

I finally decided on the XH-A! myself because of:

A) My familiarty with the Canon line (I previously had a XL1s)
B) Having a few accessories left over from the old camera (large batteries, chargers, etc)
C) Value per dollar
D) Various research and most importantly

E) The dicussions and advice here. I really feel confident in my decision, and am anxiously awaiting getting a chance to try it out on my next projects.

Also, for some reason the V1 has a ridiculous 62mm filter size... why?

So you'd have to buy all new filters?

The lens is another major issue I have with the V1--it's very difficult to make a wide angle lens for a 1/4" chip camera, and the lens isn't wide enough for most things many of us do. So the wide angle adapter would be a must with that camera, and that adds another 500 bucks to the price, plus makes it more nose-heavy. I think it's a very nice 1/4" chip camera but not in the same category as the 1/3" chip cameras (just as the 1/3" chip cameras aren't in the same category as the 1/2" chip ones, and so on).

You'll love the A1 if you buy it. You'll probably love the HVX as well, if that's your decision. For me personally, I'm using the camera to make films off of which I make no profit -- it's a hobby for me, and thus I'm perpetually on a budget. The A1 is down to around $3600, and that includes everything you need to start filming (sans tapes which can be gotten for as cheap as $3 each). The HVX camera costs around $5300, but then you need P2 media to record anything. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the statistics I'm finding show that one 8gb P2 card costs $1100 and allows you to record 20 minutes at 720p or 8 minutes at 1080i. That's starting to look like film to me, where you want to be very conservative with your shots, because recording time is expensive. For instance, I recently recorded 90 minutes of footage for a 90 second short, because I wanted to make sure each take was perfectly, and at $3 a tape I didn't really worry about wasting it. I could have done it with much less footage, but I wouldn't have recorded as much variety in the takes to have my pick during post-production, and I really see no reason to stop recording even during practice runs.

Now keep in mind this is just my personal take on the whole thing, because I know there are a lot of people who love the HVX. But say you need an hour of record time at 720p -- the HVX will cost you $8600. You could get two A1's for that price, and a very good audio setup like the AT4073 shotgun, the AT4053 hyper-cardioid and a good boom pole, shockmount, and wind protection. If you only buy one A1, then you can buy a beast of a computer to edit on, and a lighting kit as well. And again, that's only one hour of footage on the HVX

Money saved on one thing is money capable of being spent on another. If the pictures delivered by the two cameras are comparable, which they are, then I personally really can't justify the price difference. Even if the HVX has advantages over the A1, they would have to be some very significant advantages to justify that large of a price gap, to me at least.

Of course, if money isn't an object, then my points are moot. For me personally, money is a huge determining factor.

I'm not trying to start an argument about which camera is better, so I hope HVX users don't take offense to this. I'm really just explaining the reason that I didn't consider the HVX.

And as for the V1, I was torn between these two for a while. The reasons I went with the A1 were the price difference (again, $600 difference for comparable images), the problems the V1 seems to be having with 24p footage not being interpreted properly in different players, and most importantly the hype behind the A1. I've been reading posts for around a month or two, and it just seems that everyone who purchases the A1 is really excited about it. The footage that's been posted looks beautiful, and there's been a lot of footage from excited new owners. The V1 forum is a lot less active, the posts that are made there seem to be more oriented toward problems with the camera than excited posts from new owners, and there isn't much footage to be seen. Again, I'm not bashing the V1 and not looking to start an argument, this is just how I perceived things and why I bought the A1 over the other cameras. Perhaps the V1 turns out to be a much better camera than the A1, but even if that happens, I won't be disappointed in my A1 at all. I know I'm going to be getting a lot of use out of it, and the image it produces is beautiful.

Thanks everyone. I'm off to see a dealer tomorrow morning to try the XH-A1 and the V1E back to back. They have the FX7 in stock, too, but not a demonstrator. I'll let you know how I get on...

Keep in mind, that a retailer may "push" a certain camera that is in stock rather than the right camera to fit your needs.

Thanks everyone. I'm off to see a dealer tomorrow morning to try the XH-A1 and the V1E back to back. They have the FX7 in stock, too, but not a demonstrator. I'll let you know how I get on...

They push the ones they make the most profit on.

Just in case anyone was following this story and wondered how I got on last Saturday, comparing the XH-A1 and Sony V1, let me finish the tale... At one point, I decided that the FX7 was the right choice, and since they didn't have any in stock, left the shop and went off to have lunch. However, I kept thinking of things I hadn't tried, so went back after lunch. I bought the Canon - but don't ask me why! I'm rather afraid the answer is "because they didn't have an FX7 in stock and I wanted to take something home with me". Driving home I kept trying to work it out. I don't regret my choice, but it wasn't completely rational. Just in case it will help someone else, but mostly as therapy for myself, let me try to sum up my opinions:

The Sony has a number of advantages:
- £500 cheaper (FX7 - not V1)
- Bigger LCD;
- Wrap-around eye-cup;
- Smaller size and a little lighter (the Canon won't go in my old LowePro knapsack);
- The display shows the shutter, aperture and gain even when you are in full- or part-auto, whereas the Canon only shows you the settings you have control over at the moment, so if you are in shutter priority (Tv), for example, you can't see what effect your shutter-speed choice has on the iris.
- No problems with cover flaps over headphone & LANC sockets (the Canon is not very well designed in this respect).

So why buy the Canon?
- Although it was quite hard to do straight A/B comparisons (only one HD monitor, had to keep swapping component cables), the Canon's picture looked better: clearer and with better colours, though I guess there's an awful lot you can do to make either one look "better" or "worse". I took the salesman's word for it that they were both using factory default settings

- Bigger chips have to be better (don't they?) not withstanding the claims for CMOS, e.g. better exposure latitude. Though I thought I could see this effect, I wasn't certain.

- Likewise, the Canon "L" lens is the pick of the bunch, isn't it?

- More functions were controlled by buttons on the side of the camera, and I found the Canon menu easier to navigate than the Sony. In particular, I think that the 3-position gain and white-balance switches (both customisable) could be very handy. At the moment, I have the gain switch set for -3, 0 and +6 db, though I've only used 0 so far. (The Sony does not offer -3 db, though you can set an upper limit for auto gain.)

- I don't have an XLR microphone at the moment, but I intend to get one. The Canon has both balanced and unbalanced audio inputs, allowing me to upgrade easily when I'm ready, without having to buy a Beechtek box or similar.

- I already have a couple of batteries that will fit (though my largest one, non-Canon unbranded from Keene Electronics, got stuck as predicted. I told the salesman not to push it all the way. Happily, he managed to get it out by shaking the cam. gently!)

- The slowest zoom speed is slower than the Sony, and I understood how to select speeds straight away, whereas I got a bit confused with the Sony.

- My Canon ZR-1000 LANC remote control worked with both cameras, but it worked better with the Canon, especially when selecting fixed zoom speeds.

- I'm replacing a Canon XM1 and somehow I feel more comfortable sticking with what I know.

- When I thought of it as an XL-H1 without the coax sockets and a fixed lens it started to look like excellent value. I'm also getting extra toys (25F, all those picture profile tweaks). I know, the V1 has them too, but that's even more expensive!

Anyway, the agonising choice is over, and having got the angst out of my system with this post, I'm going to concentrate on getting the best out of the camera. One thing that I good do with is some help with what the various "tweaks" can do for me. The manual tells me only how to change each one, in a very bald fashion. I need something like a FAQ that explains what all the parameters do and when they are important. I've seen some of them mentioned around here in passing (in relation to low light?) but nothing that puts it all in one place. I'm going to do some searching and reading, but can anybody recommend a good starting place, please? I'll wander over to the XL-H1 forum later and see what's been left lying around over there...

Keep in mind, that a retailer may "push" a certain camera that is in stock rather than the right camera to fit your needs.
To be fair, the salesman didn't push either camera. I think they were quite new to him, and we both learned a lot.

By the way, I'm very grateful to the dealer I went to see, who let me play with the cameras for hours (literally). I shaln't mention the name, since they are not a DVi sponsor, but suffice to say that my visit to Studley, Warwks. was not wasted.

<snip>
I bought the Canon - but don't ask me why! I'm rather afraid the answer is "because they didn't have an FX7 in stock and I wanted to take something home with me". Driving home I kept trying to work it out. I don't regret my choice, but it wasn't completely rational.
<snip>

Congrats on the purchase. Yes, its pretty tough to pick these days with some of the manufacturers releasing cams that spec out almost identically.

Don't worry, the XH A1 is awesome, you'll certainly be happy with it. The choice between the XH A1 and the Sony V1 is tough... those cams are REAL close. But between the FX7 and the XH A1, if you've got the couple extra bucks the Canon is well worth it. The XLRs, the image control, the progressive video, the wider lens. Lots of pluses.

Besides, think how much cooler you'll look when you walk up to a gig with the Canon ;)

The A1 is a great camcorder, apparently you have already done your research and already know the ins and outs of the specs, so from what I can see you just want somebody to push you to make the decision.

I am an A1 owner, and suggest it. I love it tremendously. If we can get the firmware fixed, then for the price, consider it a perfect cam.

If you have more money and dont care about p2, Get the HVX.

If you have even more money wait for red.

But if time is of concern, and you already have the funds allocated, by all means get the A1, you probably wont be dissapointed.

What is red?

What is red?


http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=136

Congrats--you won't regret it (until, perhaps, your first payment is due). And, you'll be glad you with with bigger chips and the much wider and longer lens.

I was able to compare directly with the FX7 as well, and chose the XH A1 as well. Absolutely NO regrets for doing so!
The salemen at several camera shops (consumer as well as pro video) did repeatedly emphasize the advantages of getting Canon optics, over "Zeiss" as found on the Sonys. Frankly that really surprised me.
I continue to enjoy this cam every day. Just had a shoot last night where it just required SD in 4:3. Of course it did great. The advantages of the full manual controls and picture adjustments cannot be over emphasized.
Enjoy!

Congrats--you won't regret it (until, perhaps, your first payment is due). And, you'll be glad you with with bigger chips and the much wider and longer lens.
We went outside and compared the zoom range of the V1 and XH-A1 with my old XM1. Allowing for the fact that 16:9 looks wider than 4:3, the magnification of all three was virtually identical. We looked at the height of cars in the car park. This was exactly what I was hoping, as the well-chosen XM1 zoom range has been a boon on many occassions. On the other hand, it didn't help make the decision! One more feature where they scored the same!

I understand that because the chips are bigger in the XH-A1 than the XM1 and V1, the actual focal length in mm of the XH-A1 is longer to get the same image sizes, and that this also has an effect on things like how small an iris setting you can use before colour fringing becomes noticable, and the amount of depth-of-field you have at any given f-stop. These are features where the bigger lens scores some extra marks.