Is anyone, with success, using a Kona card in FCP
for realtime output with HD XDCAM footage?

If yes, please share your overall opinion/experience. thanks.

I'd have to ask Mike Curtis again, but we were using Kona capture stuff at the Texas HD Shootout. We had a live feed to separate monitors, but I can't remember the exact setup. I'll ask him to post a response here.

-gb-

So the goal is realtime output of XDCAM HD footage from FCP - mastering to tape or monitoring I take it?

We captured over HD-SDI at the Texas HD Shootout, but not XDCAM HD natively.

I'd hit up AJA tech support to make sure it is properly supported with presets.

Should work OK, 24p may be an issue if no presets.

It'll be fine. If my cheap Decklink works, a LH will work even better.

I just spoke to AJA tech support. They claim there is no
extra hardware acceleration with HD XDCAM. They say
they don't directly support XDCAM. They say if FCP supports
it, it will be fine. Sure HD-SDI is an option without problem.
But, it would be better for space, etc. to bring it in as MPEG.

Nate, are you happy with your decklink's realtime output?
Any multicam hang-ups?

Just spoke with blackmagic, they claim all clips have to be re-rendered before
realtime is an option? Any luck on this? Tell me they are wrong!

Yes, I'm happy with my Decklink as far as XDCAM goes. It works great. Gives full res, full quality output to component. I get some realtime effects in 1080p24, including the important ones like cross dissolve and 3-way color corrector.

My experience with AJA products has even been better though...Kona software offers more control as far as up/down/cross conversions.

The bottom line generally is that if FCP can play it, the Kona/Decklink will too...the card doesn't care about the codec because it's passed raw decoded frames from FCP. As long as it supports the frame resolution and rate, it will work.

The only possible hangup is with 1080p24; that the card is better off adding the pulldown on the fly so it can feed the monitor 1080i60...my Decklink will do that for me, by choosing p23.98 in the video out. If I choose 1080i60 in the video out, then it's FCP's job to add the pulldown in software...which it does equally well and without a problem.

I suppose there's a tiny chance that the Kona has hangups with 1080p24 and adding pulldown for monitoring, but my experience with the various cards of both brands in the post houses I've hired for work here in LA, is that Kona does everything Decklink does, but generally does it a bit better.

Get the card, man.

You are using firewire HD XDCAM captured footage and
getting realtime output from your decklink without
needing to re-render the footage?
Just double checking before I buy a decklink or kona card....

You are using firewire HD XDCAM captured footage and
getting realtime output from your decklink without
needing to re-render the footage?
Just double checking before I buy a decklink or kona card....

Yes. Full frame rate, full quality.

Me too, real time output and downconversion to SD with a Decklink HD.

I use a AJA KONA LHe. I also get realtime output (both HD and simultaneous down-converted SD) playing back on the timeline. BUT... this is NOT the case when I use EDIT TO TAPE. I believe this is where the confusion arises on what is realtime and what is not. Playback from the timeline is realtime Edit To Tape is not. I would love to be proved wrong on this and I also hope that a future version of Final Cut can eliminate this restriction.

I do lay projects to tape using Punch and Pray on occasion but if you need to Edit To Tape the you have to render.

Nate, Alister, Greg, Mike & Scot, thank you for all of your input.

I ordered the Kona LHe card today.

Scot, are there any special settings to get the best performace
for 35 Mb/sec 1080 24p footage in FCP with the Kona LHe?

I just got through reading the Kona specs for the various cards. It appears the best use of the card is with capture as well. So if you users are using the XDCam firewire capture method, do you still have the added benifits of the card? Downconversion being one of the benifits. We are currently using fire wire drives to edit with with XDCam 35mbs, wondering if this is causing a issue and will using a Kona card mean a upgrade to Sata drives for better performance?

If your thinking of using firewire for capture it will only be SD. The XDCAM camera's only stream SD from the firewire port. The decks can give an HDV stream with an add on card, but the whole point of XDCAM is to get away from clumsy capturing and to start thinking file based.

Not sure what codecs the Kona has but you may need a serious hard drive update if your going to capture HD via HD-SDi. 4 Drive sata raid being the minimum for uncompressed 8 bit HD.

I have the Sony XDCAM deck and use that deck via Firewire to capture via the Sony XDCAM Transfer software to FCP using HD @ 35mbs. I have no issues with capturing this method to firewire drives, editing as well no issues. The ability to use the Sony software and capture better than real time is a real time saver vers capturing via the deck using HDSDI in real time and haveing a separate card for capture and the need for faster drives than firewire. Savings in both time and money, as well as using the XDCAM disc as file based system than a tape based system. Not sure there is any quality difference between the two methods of capture?

What I do not understand is, what would a card do for our workflow if we capture via the deck using the Sony XDCAM Transfer software method we use?
Other than a down conversion via a Kona card. Does the Kona card provide realtime effects if it is NOT used for the capture?

Steve, you pose a good question.
The reason I wanted a Kona card was for
realtime HD output to view for in studio editing
with FCP.

Are there any special settings to get the best performace
for 35 Mb/sec 1080 24p footage in FCP with the Kona LHe?

I have tried the video playback setting: "Kona 1080psf 23.98 8bit"
and can see still frames but is does not play motion?

I spoke to AJA tech support today and they said HD XDCAM is not
supported. Am I missing something?

Try 1080i60 (or i30, whatever it may be called). The preset you're using might be trying to send out a PsF analog signal, which your monitor might not be liking.

Actually I am having problems myself. new mac pro and kona lhe card with blackmagic hdlink. when I play back stuff in 1080 i get spinning wheel and only a few seconds of play...i have some setting wrong somewhere...

edit: easy setup fixed it...dont know what i did wrong

Am having a problem that I could do with some help on.

When playing back xdcam cam stuff in the timeline or the viewer the spinning wheel starts it then plays for a couple of seconds then freezes. Do I have some settings wrong?

Final cut says my hard drives arent fast enough. i am using my mac pro's internal one at the moment. Is this no good? What drives are people using? Is 7200 rpm firewire 400 fast enough or does it need to be firewire 800?

Phil

When playing back xdcam cam stuff in the timeline or the viewer the spinning wheel starts it then plays for a couple of seconds then freezes. Do I have some settings wrong?

Typical behavior if your drives aren't fast enough is not to spin the pinwheel...but to simply drop frames. Playback would be sluggish, but the rainbow wheel would never show.

If the wheel IS showing up, that typically means FCP is waiting on some other aspect of the system. Either drive access (do you have enough RAM? is the virtual memory subsytem paging out while you're attempting to play video?), or some other system gremlin.

In short, 5400 or 7200 drives, either FW400 or 800, should be plenty fast for NATIVE XDCAM HD playback. If you digitized via HD-SDI, that wold be another deal entirely. Do yourself a favor though and don't digitize to the system drive. Often it works, but it can cause problems very easily as well.

the only reason I am using my second internal hard drive is my mac pros firewire is fried and I transfered captured stuff from a usb2 drive onto the internal. Apple are sending me a new mac pro any day now.

Interestingly i only get the dropped frames, sluggish speed when playing back a very speeded up shot, although fully rendered.

the only reason I am using my second internal hard drive is my mac pros firewire is fried and I transfered captured stuff from a usb2 drive onto the internal. Apple are sending me a new mac pro any day now.

A second internal drive should be no problem, in fact likely a tiny bit faster than firewire and potentially a lot faster than USB2

Interestingly i only get the dropped frames, sluggish speed when playing back a very speeded up shot, although fully rendered.

That's a really important clue. Where are your render files being rendered to? Make sure it's the same drive as your media...not the USER/Documents/Final Cut Pro Documents folder on your system drive.

Kona LHe card on a MAC PRO tower does have a funky
requirement to only be in slot 3 plus OS X PCI utility program
must be used to modify PCI settings.

Nate, it seems there is realtime playback with HD XDCAM
footage using the Kona LHe card only if 100% rendered in the
timeline. Also, while the Kona is outputting to plasma the Apple's
monitor will not do realtime multicam playback or show
any realtime video playback.

So, my questions is, how about the blackmagic card?
Same limitations?

Kona LHe card on a MAC PRO tower does have a funky
requirement to only be in slot 3 plus OS X PCI utility program
must be used to modify PCI settings.

Nate, it seems there is realtime playback with HD XDCAM
footage using the Kona LHe card only if 100% rendered in the
timeline. Also, while the Kona is outputting to plasma the Apple's
monitor will not do realtime multicam playback or show
any realtime video playback.

So, my questions is, how about the blackmagic card?
Same limitations?

you sure about that Rob?

My Kona Lhe has to be in slot 4, slot 3 isnt fast enought. Using the pci utility program it now is configured to run at 8x which is fastest speed.

My sequence settings are for xdcam hd 35mbs and i get realtime playback through my kona card and blackmagic hdlink on my 23" without rendering

Ok, moved it to slot 4, seems a bit smoother.
How do I get the kona card to output and at
the same time playback or do multicam realtime
on my apple monitor? Any special settings?

how are you outputting to the apple monitor from the kona card? are you using an hdlink?

I have the Mac Pro Tower running on a 30 inch apple
display for FCP/desktop.

I have the Kona sending an SDI-HD signal to a plasma tv.

What settings will make FCP on my desktop play video
and multicam in realtime as I use the Kona realtime
output to the plasma?

does your plasma have an hd sdi input? if not how you converting it.

let me clarify. You are seeing output on the plasma but not on your 30" apple as part of the fcp windows. Do you have mirror on desktop set on output settings?

Panasonic 50 inch plasma with SDI-HD card.
It is a beautiful option!

Just tested Kona Card With:

720 30p footage test:
Using the 8 bit 720 59.97 output
Mirror Desktop is selected and ist has realtime
desktop video and multicam output while
Kona is outputting realtime to the plasma.

1080 24p HD XDCAM footage test:
Using the 8 bit 1080 23.97 output
Mirror Desktop is selected and is has full
desktop video and NO multicam output while
Kona is outputting realtime to the plasma.
Also, another problem, if the timeline is
NOT 100% rendered the video plays back
very distorted and stretched beyond recognition.
Even just a green line in the timeline above footage
will make play back distorted...

Nate did offer a good point about trying 1080 59.97 or 60.
There is no other setting for Kona output that I have found
that will play back to footage for HD XDCAM 1080 24p.

Are you able to get realtime multicam function while
outputting from the Kona at the same time?

With a decklink card the output must be the same frame rate as the project. So a 720 30P project would only be output in real time using a decklink 30P setting.

Maybe Kona can not fully support HD XDCAM 1080 24p footage?

Is anyone certain BlackMagic/Deck link on a MAC PRO TOWER
using HD XDCAM 1080 24p footage will output realtime footage
to a second monitor/plasma while playing back realtime on the
desktop and realtime multicam on the desktop?

I really dont know about multicam. Never used it.

Here is a question. When using the Kona and a blackmagic hdlink playing the audio through line out of the computer, is the sound syncd to the desktop of the hdlink? There is a slight difference and critical music edits are tricky! Not sure which one to go for!

I have answered my own question...its the output through the kona that is audio synced

Before I buy a Black Magic Card:

Nate, one last time wanting to reconfirm if the BlackMagic HD Card on a MAC PRO TOWER using HD XDCAM 1080 24p footage will output realtime footage
to a second monitor/plasma while playing back realtime on the
desktop and realtime multicam on the desktop?

Yes, it does. I don't have a Mac Pro, just a dual 2.0 G5, but it would work.

I can confirm that you will get real-time on a Macpro with a BM card. I recommend at least 2 Gig of ram, preferably 4Gig.

Hi:

Sorry to jump into your thread but I have a brand new Kona LH waiting to be installed in a Mac G5 dual and I have a newbie question regarding its coexistance with the Mac's AGP Ati Radeon graphics card. Simply put, can I leave the the Ati in the G5 to be used for Photoshop and similar software and install the Kona for, at the present time, FCP 5.1.2 video (JVC HD-250U) capture and an eventual additional composite monitor?
Thank you for your patience and assistance,
Ron

you leave the ATI in (assuming we are talking the original, single graphics card, not a second additional card) and add the Kona elsewhere. They serve entirely different functions.

Hi Mike:

Thank you for your reply and yes, I was referring to the single Ati Radeon AGP graphics card. The Kona manual seemed to imply that any other muli-media card should be removed to avoid conflict and I really didn't know if one would classifiy the AGP card as multimedia.

Thanks again for your reply, you saved me from further weekend angst,
Ron

Got the Blackmagic Card and it does the realtime 23.98P playback.
Of course if not fully rendered (even with a green line in the timeline) the quality of playback is poor.

When doing a multicam edit I can't seem to get realtime playback
of the selected angles out of the blackmagic card.

Is there some special settings to do this?