Shot a wedding on a yacht Thurs. weather was overcast and cloudy
CAMERA SETTINGS 24p 48 shutter ND FILTER 2 PROFILE 1

RAW m2t FILES

http://www.dvdaction.net/index_004.htm

Nice Looking Footage. Although, it does look a interlaced with the little jaggies..

Interlaced with jaggies on what screen with what NLE?
If your NLE doesn't support pulldown removal of HDV, then of course, you'll see interlacing artifacts, because the footage *is* interlaced.
In other words, if you don't have Vegas, or Edius, or don't have CineForm for PP, you aren't seeing 24p.

i used the vlc player to view these clips. Never had a problem before with other 24p footage. Anyways, I tuned the deinterlacer on in VLC Player and it looked much better.

I viewed with Windows Media Player 11 and didn't see any jaggies. (FWIW I do have Cineform for PP on my machine.)

BTW, thanks for posting 24p footage!

i used the vlc player to view these clips. Never had a problem before with other 24p footage. Anyways, I tuned the deinterlacer on in VLC Player and it looked much better.

VLC doesn't support pulldown removal in a GOP stream.
This is one factor that many folks are missing, and the same thing happened when the DVX first came out as well. Many folks miss that their NLE or viewing system must be able to remove the pulldown and correctly see the information. Otherwise, you're not seeing it for what it is, but rather for what it isn't.

I rendered the clips to an m2v file in VEGAS 7C. THE raw m2t files are still on the link. I also rendered th clips with CineForm the AVI files are to big to post. I will post more clips on Sunday.

Thanks for posting.

Hey Brian...how does the V1 compare to the Z1?
In daylight and also in low-light.
Please post some side by side clips if possible.

THANKS!!!

Paul the weather has been bad here in Houston overcast cloudy rainy soon as it clears up I will shot some footage and post. I must say the V1 performs very well in low light with the correct settings. I shot a concert in a club very low light I was surprised at how well the footage can out. I don’t think the footage would have been any better on my Z1 or FX1. I am thinking about selling my FX1 And getting another V1u , because I am shooting a short film in March.

Brian, Thanks for posting the footage... looks fine from here...

I'm wondering though with all of the issues with these software packages not
correctly handleing the footage...

I'm an Adobe Premiere user, but its getting more apparent that I may need to
get Vegas to ensure that any footage I shoot from a V1 be handled correctly...


Just wish Sony would give the software with the purchase of a V1U.. :-)

Are you listening Sony....

Ray I use CineForm Connect HD to AVI format and then I edit in Sony Vegas the files are easier to work with than the M2T files.
Take a look at CineForm Aspect HD for Adobe Premiere Pro

http://www.cineform.com/

Thanks for the reply Brian, I know I'm getting off topic here but maybe others can benefit from this...

So If I read your post correctly you use Vegas and Cineform Connect and Cineform Aspect in your workflow for the V1?

What do you get from using the add-on's versus handeling it all in native Vegas??

The main thing that I that I like about CineForm is the codec you can do multiple generations with almost no loss in video quality. I use the CineForm codec to render still slide shows with various photo software. Then I input the .avi clips in VEGAS Time line I See no loss in quality with the second generation and to me the files are easy to manipulate than the raw m2t files per editing and real time viewing on my projects.



http://www.cineform.com/technology/CineForm_Intermediate.htm#Codec

Shot a wedding on a yatch Thurs. weather was overcast and cloudy
CAMERA SETTINGS 24p 48 shutter ND FILTER 2 PROFILE 1

RAW m2t FILES

http://www.dvdaction.net/index_004.htm

Hi Brian,

Thanks for taking the time to post the clips!

Just one question. Are you sure those clips were shot at 24P? I've tried Vegas 7.0C and Edius 4.0 and neither indicates they are 24P. I could be doing something wrong though.

Thanks,
Juan

Interlaced with jaggies on what screen with what NLE?
If your NLE doesn't support pulldown removal of HDV, then of course, you'll see interlacing artifacts, because the footage *is* interlaced.
In other words, if you don't have Vegas, or Edius, or don't have CineForm for PP, you aren't seeing 24p.

Sorry to bother you again Douglas, but your wording here has me confused again so I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked in another thread.

To edit 24p & 25p on PPro 1.5.1, do I NEED to download Cineform's ASPECT HD? Or can PPro remove the pulldown on its own?

I'm confused because there are no presets for 24p in PPro. I wouldn't have a clue what type of project to start for 50i or 60i that will be output as 25p/24p.

Thank you,
-- John.

For native M2T editing under Premiere Pro, Adobe has yet to support the 24p signal embedded it 60i, however you can edit 24p captures as 60i. With Aspect HD you can extract the 24p signal upon capture (in a single step) and it adds the 24p preset for editing 1080p24. The free CineForm components included in PPro 1.5.1 do not support the 24p modes, for that you do need the full verison of Aspect HD (or Prospect HD.) CineForm tools aren't required to edit HDV (we were once the only solution) but we are still very useful.

i definitely recommend the cineform codec for generating an editable intermediate. i used it to edit a multicam hvx200 project with sony vegas a few months ago. without naming the various other products i tried, it worked better than all of them--> looked identical to the dvcpro-hd footage and produced a full-res real-time preview on my older-ish machine.

my only complaint is that i can never remember which product is which :) mostly because my memory i think is going bad, but also because the names aspect, prospect, and connect, don't form any kind of association in my head with premiere or vegas or avid etc. i just know one of them works with vegas and the rest don't. maybe if it were called Cineform-HD vegas, Cineform-HD premiere, etc. does this confuse anyone else? anyway just a suggestion. i know the products dont' have identical features.

i'm also glad that we have direct support for the codec on this board!

Ok, who has the best prices on Cineform products... :-)

looks like I'm going to be doing some major upgrading in Hardware and Software.

For native M2T editing under Premiere Pro, Adobe has yet to support the 24p signal embedded it 60i, however you can edit 24p captures as 60i. With Aspect HD you can extract the 24p signal upon capture (in a single step) and it adds the 24p preset for editing 1080p24. The free CineForm components included in PPro 1.5.1 do not support the 24p modes, for that you do need the full verison of Aspect HD (or Prospect HD.) CineForm tools aren't required to edit HDV (we were once the only solution) but we are still very useful.

Thank you David! That's what I needed to know. Can I ask if the same goes for 1080p25? Is PPro ok with that on its own already? Or does Aspect HD provide the same easy workflow for 25p material?

Although 1080p25 and 1080i50 are structurely very similar, Premiere doesn't allow progressive to be set of native HDV editing. You might try the Canon XL-H1 patch for 25F, yet that doesn't work on the V1 for 24p. Aspect HD works fine for all HDV 24p or 25p sources.

I have Vegas 7.0c and Connect HD 3.3. I imported the raw mt2 files from Brian's link into Vegas and looked at the properties for the clips. The clip properties show the mt2 files have a 29.97 frame rate. I do have the Vegas project properties set for the HDV 1080-24p template. When I play the video on the timeline, I "think" it looks like a real 24p frame rate, but honestly I don't have the experience to know for sure.

So here is my question: Is this the way Vegas handles the 24p via 60i capture, by showing up in the timeline a 60i clip, but you have to set the project properties as 24p? If so, I think this is what is causing alot of the confusion.

If not, should the clip properties show up as 23.976 by themselves without any intervention? I do have the remove pull down activated in the general preferences settings. I think everyone (myself included) is expecting the properties to be 23.976 automatically.

BTW, the video looks great Brian. I have an HVR-A1 that I'm still learning to use (I'm a rookie) but would love to get the V1U after I figure out what I'm doing.

Michael,

If you intend to use Connect HD, load in those m2t files and select the convert tab. In "Prefs" select "Remove 3-2 Pulldown ...", then convert those M2T to 24p AVIs.

Michael,

If you intend to use Connect HD, load in those m2t files and select the convert tab. In "Prefs" select "Remove 3-2 Pulldown ...", then convert those M2T to 24p AVIs.

David;

Am I correct in thinking then that to capture V1U 24P video, and remove the pulldown from the 60i stream, the ConnectHD product will do this, without the need for Vegas (since my NLE of choice is FCP).

Thanks

Connect HD doesn't (yet) work with Mac based NLEs like FCP, but otherwise you are correct.

Connect HD doesn't (yet) work with Mac based NLEs like FCP, but otherwise you are correct.

David,

Are we waiting for a new version of FCP to be able to use Cineform or has development of the Mac based version taken longer than anticipated? Or both?

I read somewhere that FCP does not allow its core render pipeline to be replaced like PP does so would the Mac Cineform solution be more along the lines of Connect rather than Aspect/Prospect?

Wishing you at Cineform well for 2007

TT

David,

I would be all over this for FCP! Frankly I find working in Native too time consuming to render and using Apple Intermediate doesn't look as good. To have these 24p issues worked out as well...count me in!

Mr. Newman,

Thanks for the instructions on using the V1U with Cineform. Following your instructions I converted Brian's footage to a 24p Cineform .avi and imported it into Vegas. I rendered several types of files that everyone could take a look at.

Here is the link: http://www.mbdigitalworks.com/v1u. The descriptions are listed below.

File 1: 1080p blu print file
File 2: 1080p Windows media file
File 4: 480p widescreen DVD mpeg file
File 5: 720p Windows media file

After importing the files into Vegas, the properties showed the frame rate as 23.976. Take a look at the videos and let me know how you feel about the 24p look and the new blu print format.