Here's the feedback thread for my film "Tanks for the Memories". I'll add a lot more details regarding the production issues once the film gets released, but I don't want to spoil anything for anybody before they get a chance to watch the film.

As always, constructive criticism and unconstructive praise are very welcome. There are many things I'd like to fix in this one, but I only had 6 hours to take the tapes and get it on the web, so it'll have to do.

Cheers,
Bill

I have to know the story behind the tank!!

OK. My film's been posted. Please watch the film first before you read anything below. :)

Did you watch it? Really? Come on, tell the truth... You did? Good.

So, unlike my other DVC entries, for this one I had to shoot a friend's film the first weekend of the DVC7 competition, so I had no time for a proper shoot, script, actors, crew, etc.

But I did have my final project for my lighting and art direction classes, which was to film a war scene based on a tank the art direction class had built. So, I'm constrained to come up with something based on "Memories" with war/tank footage. Luckily, my 8 year old son plays with toy soldiers and a tank anyway, so that's what I went with.

We also filmed the tank footage late Thursday night and my wife made it clear to me that we had family plans on the weekend. So I only had Friday to pull the whole thing together. The "muzzle flashes" are from Andrew Kramer's "Action Movie Essentials" package. Given the time in the morning to capture the footage and the time in the afternoon to get it ready for the web, I only had about 2 hours in the middle of the day to edit the whole thing together and get the visual effects in. So, yes, there are a bunch of gun movements that don't have muzzle flashes and a few that don't have the right sound effects in them. If I'd had another day to clean it all up, it would have looked a lot more polished.

Anyways, that's it from me. Happy Holidays everybody!

Bill

I have to know the story behind the tank!!

More details on the tank.

My Art Direction/Staging class of 5 folks built that over 4 class periods. The top of the main body is a flat from the back of a stage wall. We sawed and glued a bunch of luon (sp?) pieces on the sides and for the turret on the top. Those are some hubcaps for the lids that the folks come in and out of. That's a leg from an end-table sticking out the front. The treads are made of large bubble bubble-wrap painted brown (and they don't move, in case you didn't notice :). The turret sits on a pole inside another pole mounted to the main body so it can rotate. We only built the front and the left side, so nothing is shot from the right or behind. The whole thing rests on a stage cart/dolly which is pushed from behind. If you look closely you can see the head of the "pusher" popping up now and then behind the tank to see where he's going. Finally, the top lid on the turret accidentally fell off during the shoot. To use that clip, I added an effect of blood shooting through the guys hand and a bullet ricochet off the top to make it look like it was shot off: something to look for in the second viewing.

Any other questions? :)

Bill

Bill:

Man, that was like Private Ryan in a day.... Actually, the illusion was pretty good, until tank was moving without tread turning... a little more smoke or fog, and that would have been hidden.

How did you do all that in that short time ???

That looked great. I think it would have been better if the tank wasn't moved though. Once it started moving it looked kind of wobbly, hahaha. The lighting was great and I really liked the view from the bunker. I thought the SFX were good too. really good job. putting in the muzzle flashes was a nice (probably time consuming) touch.

[QUOTE=Chris Barcellos]Bill:

Man, that was like Private Ryan in a day.... Actually, the illusion was pretty good, until tank was moving without tread turning... QUOTE]


Agreed. That was the only thing that broke the illusion for me. Which still made it pretty darn good.

Very nice. I thought the lighting was very well done and can see you and your student friends put much effort into the project. See what you mean by "best prop". Would echo similar thoughts already mentioned about the tank movement.

You had some great visual effects and I enjoyed the sound design too. Can you let me know the name of the SFX CD you have? Oh, and you can certainly play a mean Greensleeves on the guitar. :)

For the story- thought that perhaps if there were just two additional shots it would have given more empathy/sympathy for the main character- Grandpa. That would be, a close up of Grandpa's face just before he drifts off into the memory and one close up of his face at the end.

Best wishes~
Bradley

For the story- thought that perhaps if there were just two additional shots it would have given more empathy/sympathy for the main character- Grandpa. That would be, a close up of Grandpa's face just before he drifts off into the memory and one close up of his face at the end.


I totally agree with you that some shots of Grampa would have substantially improved the effort. However, if you notice the credits, we had no Grampa (!). Grampa's legs were my wife's and Grampa's voice was my lame impression of an 80 year old man. :)

Bill

Actually, the illusion was pretty good, until tank was moving without tread turning...

I guess you all have forgotton the WWII "Hover-Tanks" that the US army used... :)

Bill

Can you let me know the name of the SFX CD you have?

I usually use sounddogs.com for sound effects. You can download the effects immediately and they're usually only a few bucks per effect.

Bill

I kept expecting the one guy to get downed by friendly fire…

The tank seems to be emerging as the star of this show (lol) but your present-day sequences are pretty. A slow-moving crane shot across, down, and back across ain’t that easy, is it? Nice job. :)

I usually use sounddogs.com for sound effects. You can download the effects immediately and they're usually only a few bucks per effect.

Bill

Thanks Bill! I hadn't heard of sounddogs.com yet so thank you for the pointer.

Best wishes~
Bradley

The quality of the image was top notch!
I liked the idea behind the "memories" theme as well.

Having a real grandpa (and tank) would have been ideal, but we all had to make sacrifices I'm sure.

Well done.

Mike

Kudos to all of the production design and staging. Lighting, sound effects and (I believe) After Effects for the machine gun muzzle blast were all well done. I know it's tough to simulate a real tank but a jolly good effort.

Okay, let's get down to business. "Tanks for the Memories" is a nice pun, but too cute for a serious subject, in my opinion. I can't blame you for taking advantage of the obvious (the movie features tanks, it's supposed to be about memories, it's staring you right in the face, who wouldn't want to use that title?), but I think "horrors of war flashbacks" is a touch too heavy an issue for that name.

I'll echo what others have said about the treads on the tank; I would have tried to hide it somehow, keep the body in frame, but leave the treads down below. And maybe work on the vehicle's assembly, it was wobbling pretty good at some points.

Another, fairly minor, thing that struck me were the rather dark muzzle flashes. It looks like the white-hot center portion was already clipped, and when you brought the brightness down it made them a flat grey. That's the nature of clipped whites, I guess, I just don't think there's a need to darken muzzle flashes. They're mini-explosions, right? They're supposed to be bright, and with this footage (that tends toward darkness) it seems like they should be brighter than everything else in the frame.

My only other problem with the movie is the sound design, though it's a big one. Most of the effects are incredibly wimpy, I'm sorry to say, and the others sound like canned cartoon sounds recorded (poorly) in the '40s. Everything sounds tiny, weak, and distant. Regarding the tank, I would like to have heard the treads squeaking and squealing as it was moving along. And, most unusual of all, the tank's gun sounds like it's firing bullets. Not a terribly intimidating vehicle.

Add the fake grandpa voice on top of all that, and I hate to say it, but the sound ruined the entire movie for me. I think it could have been great with more selective, careful shots of the tank's body, a real old man for the grandfather (his voice, at least), and some more serious, powerful sound effects. I'm impressed at what you were able to achieve with the limited time you had, but as it stands, the film is underwhelming.

Hey Bill,
It always amazes me how clear your images are. Is it the camera or the compression?

I want to congratulate you for such a tremendous effort. Doing that war reenactment took it to another level. Despite minor flaws it is still a well done short, and I liked the cinematography through out the film and how you pulled it all together in such little time.

I watched "Tanks..." last night and my jaw dropped when i saw the war scene. Now that I know how fast you cut this together I have to say I'm very impressed (and somewhat intimidated) by your skill.

I do agree with the other comments aboutthe wobbling of the tank, maybe some cross bracing or making a more stable frame would help with that.
As for the treads not moving i would suggest maybe adding some heavy smoke around them and i think that might create a better illusion.

Again, my hats off to you and your entire crew.

i don't know that i have much new feedback to add, other than that i admire your ambition! staging a war re-enactment scene in the midst of holiday activities takes some fortitude....

i don't know that i have much new feedback to add, other than that i admire your ambition! staging a war re-enactment scene in the midst of holiday activities takes some fortitude....


I agree! Perhaps there were a few minor issues with the war scene, but all things considered very very well done in such a short timeframe!

On a different note...I really liked your opening section too! Very nice job using the Christmas tree visual and only the sound of the boy playing with the tanks. Its pretty dramatic...and fun at the same time...you're not sure what's about to happen, so it really pulls you in.

Bill,
what kind of lights did you use in your battle scene? it looked like they were pretty freakin big. I'm not all that hip to different lights. I know the little ones I have and then I've seen the gigantic ones they use on films to light whole streets, but these looked like they were somewhere in the middle? Also, what did you use to light the gunner in the bunker? it's dark but not too dark.

Bill,
what kind of lights did you use in your battle scene? it looked like they were pretty freakin big. I'm not all that hip to different lights. I know the little ones I have and then I've seen the gigantic ones they use on films to light whole streets, but these looked like they were somewhere in the middle?
The lighting class had a few 2k Fresnel lights that were perched on stands and shot down the hill. That created 90% of the main key light.

Also, what did you use to light the gunner in the bunker? it's dark but not too dark.
The "bunker" was actually just a simple painted frame: two pieces of wood nailed together in an "L" shape, tipped on its side, and held in place to frame it around the machine gun. It was a last minute thing created by the teacher of the lighting and staging classes (literally, it showed up to my surprise 5 minutes before we shot the thing, and when I moved it around my hands got wet paint on them). There were no walls or ceiling to the bunker. The bunker frame and the gun were lit by a distant Fresnel light on the left and we used a reflector to throw some light on the right side of the gun.

Bill

that illusion that it was in a bunker looked good. 2k lights, ahhhhh. how nice that would be to have. I have 250w lights. hahahaha.

Wow, kudos on those crane shots. Nice job Bill and crew.

Well Bill.

I was overwhelmed with what you achieved. Your kid's acting (I assume Alex is yours!) was really good, he pulled his part off great.

The battle scene:

We have two choices with something like this. We can go for realism, or symbolism or a blend of both and that blend is what you have going for this.

Unless you have good connections at a large National Guard armory there is no way you are going to get access to a real tank.

So you have a "prop" that doesn't look that real, the treads don't turn, the guns don't look all that accurate...

...And yet for me it works. There is just enough detail on that thing to anchor the eye to the concept of tank. The lighting mood and action works very well, and the whole thing is supposed to be symbolic anyway. I don't expect absolute realism here, but the overall mood presents enough of the illusion of such that it says what it needs to.

I've watched it several times and cannot find anything I want to offer "constructive critique" on.

I thoroughly enjoyed your concept and it's presentation. Great job in my opinion.

Bruce

Very strong, and I love that it tells the whole story in just a couple of minutes. How cool to get to have a real tank. The only obvious thing I noticed was that when you pull to the wide shot of the kid playing his lips aren't moving even though the sound has him making tank noises. Very good lighting and smoke in the battle scene.

Smile,
Kris

PS: while I agree with Robert that the effects sounded a little tiny, I liked it. It made it sound old to me, like the 40s, which I assumed you did on purpose since the Grandpa would be of an age that the memory would come from WWII (though I suppose then it wouldn't have been a Soviet tank he was battling.)

Bill,
pretty darned good. To make better use of motion and to not give away the tread issue, you might have simply shot it tighter against the background to see movement there. Really, for me, it didn't have to move at all. Not bad at all.

I don't know that seeing the grandfathers face would have made anything more or less for me. This way sort of makes me wonder if he wasn't hurt or disfigured in the war.

Only little comment other than the tank stuff was the voice of grandpa sounds kind of young for a vet. The tank could have been brown/desert colors to use a younger sounding grandpa perhaps?

Over all, really nice for the time and how lucky to have that tank hanging around. Very nice.

Sean McHenry