Does anyone know the difference between the audio settings "Normal" and "Voice"? I was hoping to find a hided audio limiter here, but clipping does occur even in "voice" position.

I'm going to take a stab and guess that 'voice' employs a band-pass filter centered around the primary voice frequencies while normal removes any filtering. The 'voice' mode would be helpful in this case to isolate dialog from distracting background audio, making such dialog cut through the mix.

-gb-

Thanks! Chris & Greg, you don't happen to know about an audio limiter? XLR-inputs without switchable limiter? I can't believe it is missing.

I've been shooting (mostly with Betacam and DVCAM 2/3" chip cameras) for longer than I care to remember and I don't think I've ever run across an audio limiter, except on a mixer. If you record in auto (which I've never done) the automatic function serves as a limiter, obviously. But I don't recall ever seeing an audio limiter switch, like mixers have, on any camera I've used.

Some camcorders in this price range (Z1/FX1?) come with a built-in limiter / soft-clip in manual mode...

But I'm guessing not the A1?

I'm sort of new to the "prosumer" camera thing and I didn't know any of them had a limiter. Maybe it's a menu function? I'll check the manual and see.

Nothing in the manual that I can find about a limiter, so it must not have one.

What I've always done on other cameras when not using a mixer and shooting things that might blow out the audio is use an XLR Y-adapter, and I set channel 1 tone at -20, and then take channel 2 down about another 5-10 db. So if something on channel 1 peaks out above around a -11 or so, channel 2 should cover me.

Some camcorders in this price range (Z1/FX1?) come with a built-in limiter / soft-clip in manual mode

That's right! And I used it all the time.

Canon provides us with top audio features that are essential to use high quality microphones on the A1 WITHOUT needing a mixer: professional XLR inputs, separate channel manual gain control, phantom powering, 20dB att - but it leaves out a limiter? Sorry, but that does not make sense at all, does it?

Yes, I'd never come across a full size camera with a built-in limiter, but I think with the one-man (often less trained) operation of these smaller cameras some manufacturers have been kind enough to give us at very-least a soft-clip.

The A1 doesn't appear to have a soft-clip (I've just checked) although the "auto" setting does suspiciously well at managing audio levels without sounding bad at all...

I'm pretty impressed by the audio on this camera. I feel a bit unsettled that I'm considering using the built in mics for ambient sound... it goes against everything I've ever learned! But... they sound... okay...

What I've always done on other cameras when not using a mixer and shooting things that might blow out the audio is use an XLR Y-adapter, and I set channel 1 tone at -20, and then take channel 2 down about another 5-10 db. So if something on channel 1 peaks out above around a -11 or so, channel 2 should cover me.

Good idea, Bill. I sure would do the same, but I am always recording MS-Stereo.
I hope, that there IS a kind of "soft clipping" when recording in manual mode, even if it is not mentioned in the manual.

I hope, that there IS a kind of "soft clipping" when recording in manual mode, even if it is not mentioned in the manual.

I couldn't find it... but I hope someone can? Perhaps it's a firmware upgrade :-P

Perhaps it's a firmware upgrade :-P

Alex, I didn't think of such a solution before. They could "fix" it via a firmware upgrade, could they? I mean - could a limiting/soft clipping feature be added only by software?

I presume it could be added by software, but that really depends on how Canon have setup / programmed this camcorder.

Does anyone know if the H1 has a soft-clip?

Maybe they can, but I don't think they will. If you can't organize the tresshold a limiter sounds bad. They all do, they clip the sound off/on and you have a 'breathing' effect.

Try to treat yourself (and your audio) by working with a small portable audiomixer that feeds the phantom mics too, like the sounddevices Premix or sortalike. The preamp quality is much better and the monitoring is perfect. It's another 500$ but in the end, this is a working solution, go line in in the A1.

Of course you're right Raymond. The soft-clip / limiter is more of a "belt-and-braces" ("belt-and-suspenders") solution - It won't make your audio sound good if you haven't got the levels right, but it can save it if you hit and unexpectedly loud transient...

Like somebody shouting "Stop this wedding!" right in the middle of the service.

:-D

Ever since I got my XL-1 back in 1998, I've used an outboard preamp/phantom and an "over-easy" compressor/limiter fed into the camera on "manual". There's just no guessing what could happen shooting events and the ol' XL-1 had no protection. Possible disasterous sound. I always also recorded from the camera mic on attenuator just in case.

I was a little concerned about no chanels 3 & 4 for back up on the XH-A1, but I just shot an event with a single pzm 100' XLR direct into mic 1 on the A1 duplicated to mic 2, - auto-sound with -20 attenuator and +12 gain (strange but it works). The camera provided the phantom. The sound is actually fine. Wandering small voices could be heard and thunderous applause was dealt with. (I'll probably boost the voices a bit later).

Now I'm trying to figure out whether or not the old combination is enough better to bother with. The new method is certainly more convenient.

I've been shooting (mostly with Betacam and DVCAM 2/3" chip cameras) for longer than I care to remember and I don't think I've ever run across an audio limiter, except on a mixer. If you record in auto (which I've never done) the automatic function serves as a limiter, obviously. But I don't recall ever seeing an audio limiter switch, like mixers have, on any camera I've used.

Actually Bill, the F350 has one. Settings are OFF, -6, -9, -12, -15, & -17. Not sure if it's a hard limiter or not, but it definitely has one. The SD version of the camera can also place an 'essence mark' on the clip showing where audio limit peaks have occurred. This is a separate function in the menus from AGC which is also available. Perhaps this is going to become a trend in new camera designs, as the ability to cram more electronics into a given size allows for more on-board features to be implemented.

However, I think the thread has drifted off-topic a bit. Original poster asked what normal vs. voice mode was on the A1. Anyone with a definitive answer for that? I just took my best guess based on the name of the function.

-gb-