After I send a pricing request for the new Sony V1 E (Europe) to my dealer, he talked directly with Sony officials here in Germany. They told him, that the shipping will be suspended for at least a month or so, due to the 25p flaw. He didn't comment about the already sold ones, but I guess the Silver Support will cover this issue.

So far it seems, that the V1 U (USA) model is working fine.

Anybody though can comment on the HVR-V1 P (Pacific) Version, maybe somebody from Malaysia, Singapore or Australia ?

Thanks

That sounds like the problem is more serious than just the firmware! Sony wouldn't stop selling V1E if it was so easy to fix it via a simple software upgrade - did they mention whether all machines sold so far would be called back?

That sounds like the problem is more serious than just the firmware! Sony wouldn't stop selling V1E if it was so easy to fix it via a simple software upgrade - did they mention whether all machines sold so far would be called back?

Piotr

It'll be a lot cheaper for Sony to hold fire on distribution than to Silver Support hundreds if not thousands of cameras in the field all over Europe.

I am sure it's a pragmatic measure and does not necessarily indicate how the problem is going to be solved. Solved it will be.

TT

This is a very good news !! Although no official information from Sony V1 website but Tony, you have just saved the life of the whole Europe V1 users... probably the whole PAL world... :-).

One month waiting, sound good to me bcs my Canon dealer replied they can't shipped A1 to me for another 4~6 weeks.. (yes, none of them have stock, as usual). I wonder whether I should go back to fence-sitting again or not.

And Tony please can you PM me the quality concern you have over Canon picture ? Many thanks in advanced.

Ing Poh Hii,

I don't think I can take the credit after all Simon Wyndham reported the issue first. But the message didn't get through or was ignored. Shame as it could have prevented the hair pulling of the last week not to mention undoubtedly lost sales.

I am uploading clips that are as representative of the V1's quality given the size of files I can post. Have a look at some and see if you like the look of the V1 image. Remember in the clips I've posted they are a good deal softer than the original but you definitely get a feel for the capability of the V1.

I do NOT have any quality concerns over the Canon image at all. The Canon XH-A1 produces a wonderful image. I just preferred the "look" of the V1 image as judged by my own criteria. Now, if you were to ask the same question to one of the many very happy Canon owners you'd get a completely different answer.

Horses for courses...And keep sitting on that fence.

TT

Thank you Tony, I don't like to keep sitting on the horse, especially this horse doesn't move me to anyway.

I am downloading one of your clip now, thanks for it first. In fact I don't particular keen on XXp but I just scare of getting another faulty machine. Now Sony is looking into this, it is a good sight.

I would hope it is just a firmware fix, otherwise I still have worry to buy it in any Asia country as you can never fully test it out before you pay the money, here we have only mail order even the Sony center is so big in the KLCC tower.

If Canon can't give me a definite date of delivery, I may just buy one V1 directly from UK before I return (if the fixed has been delivered).

In term of personal preference, I do love the sony "look" (or just get used to it), in term of technology, i like cmos (as long as it is not a faulty design), in term of feature like wide L len, manual customisation, 1/3 sensor, i see Canon has a very solid ground.

Perhaps just like what you said, they both good, just see which one get better value for money : ).

Damn it, this fence is tall, I can't get down :@

The title of this thread has been changed from "25p flaw of the V1 E model is official" to "25p flaw of the V1 E model is official?" -- because it really ain't "official" until there's some way to verify that statement.

... here we have only mail order even the Sony center is so big in the KLCC tower.

That's 3 of us who were in this store in the last few weeks! Must set some kind of record.

The title of this thread has been changed from "25p flaw of the V1 E model is official" to "25p flaw of the V1 E model is official?" -- because it really ain't "official" until there's some way to verify that statement.
Chirs,
I understand your concern but what would it take to make it official?
There's now two of us getting the same story, that Sony have suspended shipment pending resolution of this issue and that's from different Sony distributors in different parts of the world.
I agree it'd be nice for Sony themselves to make an official statement but how likely is that.
On the reverse side of the coin not all resellers holding stock may be privy to Sony's internal communications and may try to convince prospective purchasers that it's all just rumour mongering.
I do appreciate though that from where you sit these things are a difficult call.

The title of this thread has been changed from "25p flaw of the V1 E model is official" to "25p flaw of the V1 E model is official?" -- because it really ain't "official" until there's some way to verify that statement.

Mea culpa, it’s just a typing mistake, because I reedited the headline wrongly. Anyhow, the information is based on ‘lose talking’, so until there isn’t anything printed ore elsewhere wired by Sony themself, it’s sort of unofficial. And even then, one always has to consider sales rhetoric’s and politics.

I called Sony Support by my self, but they didn’t have any information whatsoever. I guess my dealer, which is trustful, is using different informal or non-customer communication lines.

I guess shipping in Germany is late compared to the rest of Europe, so they postponed it.

What about the HVR-V1P (Pacific) model ?

We were destined to get a "P" variant down here but the dealer (official Sony dealer) told us although our unit is in their hands Sony have advised not to deliver it pending resolution of the problem.

I was at The Apple Macintosh Show at London's Olympia a few months ago and visited the Sony stand. One of the Sony reps there said that he knew then that there were serious problems with the new Sony V1E, and that his advice for me would be to cancel the "pre-order" I had then with Mitcorps, and to re-order the V1E in July 2007, by which date he expected Sony to have the camera sorted out. The other Sony reps on the stand were slightly more evasive, but admitted the actual VIE on their stand had other problems. (ie excessive hunting on autofocus, dificulty of access to certainn menus, etc).

This is very un-sony like. It sounds like they maybe rushed to get the camera out there to compete with Canon's new boys. This could really damage the future sales if It's June 2007 before a good'un hits the shelves!

I thank the techno gods I went for the A1 over the V1 as it was 50/50 at one stage! I would have been wounded as I only shoot with the 25p effect on my cameras and the Canon frame 25fps mode is as good a progressive mode as I have seen to date.

In my experience, Sony have always been quick to repsond to these kind of problems, I'm sure they'll get some manpower behind it in the coming weeks. I hope those people who already own them get a quick fix as it can't be nice having put their faith into a product that is not performing as it should.

In the Netherlands there is more information on this. The Global DVC video network has reported the following:
"SONY DID NOT OFFICIALLY CONFIRM THIS BUT: from more than one internet contact we heared that V1E shipping is suspended for at least a month. Sony Germany and
Holland are putting HVR-V1E (Europe model) deliveries on hold due to alert on 25P picture problems. After our tests we also noticed slight paint effects. It seems a software fix can solve the problem. We are waiting for official Sony Report on this!" See www.global-dvc.org

On the Dutch website www.global-dvc.nl the information is better updated as follows: "Again problems with new Sony camera. .... After several tests it appears the first released V1E camera's with serialnr's S01-1210001-1211330 and 1211581) show an unwanted paint effect in the new 25P mode. Sony has confirmed this officialy and will do a recall on all delivered camera's to give them a software update. This will be done by Prime Support. The first responses on the rest of the camera are excellent and the 25P is not often used in the Netherlands. The distribution of the camera has been suspended. The software update appears to be available and soon the distribution should be restarted".

In Dutch:
"Alweer problemen met nieuwe Sony Camera. Sony HVR-V1E in P25 stand veroorzaakt painteffect.
Zandvoort dinsdag 20 december 2006.
Na diverse Global-DVC studio / praktijk tests is gebleken dat de eerste uitgeleverde HVR-V1E videocamera's (met serienummers tussen S01-1210001 tot 1211330 en 1211581 ) in de nieuwe 25 Progressive stand een ongewenst soort painteffect te zien geeft. Sony heeft ons dit nu officieel erkent en gaat middels een recall alle uitgeleverde camera's direct softwarematig herstellen. Dit zal worden afgehandeld via Prime Support.
De eerste reacties op de verdere kwaliteit zijn prima en in Nederland wordt toch weinig gebruik gemaakt van die 25P stand. De distributie is per direct stil gelegd. De software update schijnt dus al klaar te liggen en uitlevering kan spoedig hervat worden."
Source: http://www.global-dvc.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=28

I can also confirm NZ deliveries (P model) on hold until a firmware update is released. This would cover the Asia/Pacific region as the Sony supply hub operates out of Hong Kong.

It would be really nice if we did get some notification officially. But how would Sony go about that? Direct to customers or somewhere in the bowels of their website/s??

Any idea?

TT

Tony, have you registered your cam? Maybe that would be a way to submit the problem and request info on resolution.
I had no time doing that, but maybe owners could follow the same approach so Sony would see they have to do something about it.
Or am I naive?:)

Anyways, went for night shooting in the frost - the cam works pretty well in cold. Maybe I will have time to edit during the week end then post something.

It would be really nice if we did get some notification officially. But how would Sony go about that? Direct to customers or somewhere in the bowels of their website/s??

Any idea?

TTWell the support site for USA (which i know is not what we want here..) is this :
http://esupport.sony.com/

Support site for Europe *consumer* products is here : (this precise link shows the SR1 audio-channel problem for example :)
http://support.sony-europe.com/Hotnews/DIME/RSI/RSI.asp?l=en

and this site below is for 'Professional' products which will include of course the V1. You can see they have 'Product Notices' there.
I am not 100% sure if this site below is a 'global' sony site. i.e. if Sony post a notice about the 25p V1E problem, will it appear here ?? - not sure.
But at least it gives something to monitor :
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10018/market_10018.shtml

My guess is that they won't publically want to publicise this 25p problem so will just be trying hard to fix it as quickly as possible and get the V1E train back on the rails in a fairly low-key way.

I have been waiting quite awhile to purchase the V1, but now that I see what happened to the V1E, I am nervous waiting to see what happens, and how the V1U users start reporting in.

All of this raises a big question in my mind about firmware. Somewhere in another post a user indicated that they had taken in a camera for some repair and along the way they upgraded the firmware while the unit was in the shop, and there was a new or different feature.

So, that got me thinking about firmware. These days many products ship way before they are ready, and it takes many firmware revisions to actually get an acceptable product. I have had problems with routers, DVD drives, and many other items, but typically I can upgrade firmware routinely.

So I wonder why Sony does not post firmware upgrades routinely to their website, and why HVR-V1 owners cannot just upgrade their firmware as time goes on and bugs get worked out. Why do the early purchasers get stuck with the buggiest firmware? Almost all other types of hardware these days routinely provide firmware updates, but it does not seem to be the case with very, very expensive HD cameras.

Does anyone have any ideas on how a purchaser today can upgrade firmware without an expensive trip to the service desk? If I could feel some comfort about this I would be less reluctant today to buy a new HVR-V1U..

Does anyone have any ideas on how a purchaser today can upgrade firmware without an expensive trip to the service desk? If I could feel some comfort about this I would be less reluctant today to buy a new HVR-V1U..

There has not been any reported problem with the V1U therefore you don't need new firmware or any trip to a service desk.

So why the worry?

I have it on good authority that EU customers will be sorted out via their Prime Support contracts. It should be noted that Sony regularly update firmware for the XDCAM HD cameras via ftp. Users simply load the firmware onto a memory stick and load it into the camera. Job done. They may go this route for the V1E but we won't know until we get officially told.

Don't let an irrational worry over the V1U to make you decide to go elsewhere. You might regret it when you start seeing the drop dead gorgeous images from the V1. :)

TT

Hmmm... I like to think that no more faulty models will slip through the cracks.

I don't want to end up with one, that's for sure.

I have registered my V1E and wrote to the Prime Support at PrimeSupoort@eu.sony.com. Here is the answer:

Dear customer,

"Thank you for contacting the Sony PrimeSupport helpdesk. Your email will
be passed to the relevant department and you will receive a response in
due course.

Kind Regards

SONY PrimeSupport"

So, nothing specific yet...

Great News! A very nice guy just called me from Sony Europe and informed a special box will be sent to me for my V1E to be put in (just the camera, without any delicate stuff); the courier will than pick it and it will be back within a couple of days, fixed. He assured me it's just and purely software issue, 100% resolvable. He also accepted my complain about the component socket loosing contact and promised that will be fixed, as well. The Prime Support seems to be working!

This is technically a cross post so my apologies but the more appropriate thread for this seems to be being ignored / gone dead.

Our V1P was delayed roughly 72 hours at the dealers awaiting advice from Sony. Since then the firmware has been updated and the unit shipped to us. The dealer said the software updates are taking them 40 minutes per unit which explains the delay in processing so many units. They are working to reduce the update time to 20 minutes.
I think we can safely say Yes, the problem is offical and Sony have it fixed.
From what was said I also understand that units are already leaving manufacturing with the fix incorporated.

My box arrives tomorrow!

I hope I am not going to be without the camera for long. I've become quite attached to it!!! :)

TT

That's *great* news guys - good to know the fix is gonna be quick for you, in fact that's much quicker than I'd expected...

Looks like I might be off to Mitcorp sooner that I expected!

My box arrives tomorrow!

I hope I am not going to be without the camera for long. I've become quite attached to it!!! :)

TT

Ah, seems problems have been resolved quickly! :) I have not registered my cam yet, but I will do it soon. Definitely don't want to send my cam anywhere now - Xmas is around the corner, New Years Eve, so many things to shoot.

I will let them fix in January during the dull days after the holiday season:)
I hope I wont be late...

The cam is great and the quick reaction from Sony is impressive.

Tony, do you have to pay anything for the fix?

Piotr, you are not in the UK, how about you? Shipping cost or something?

Don't have to pay a thing Zsolt.

The courier delivered a box, waited on the doorstep while I placed camera in said box. He taped up the box applied a pre-printed label and we wished each other Happy Xmas. Job done...

I doubt whether I'll get the cam back before the new year but I won't have much time to use until then anyway. Too much partying to be done.

cheers

TT

Zsolt, the courier is supposed to arrive tomorrow here, but I've been told I won't pay anything either. Also sorry to stay without the baby over Christmas, but wanted to have it over asap.

Tony, is the box specially designed to keep the camera safe, or should I prepare it somehow for the transport (wrap in some soft material etc)?

Zsolt, the courier is supposed to arrive tomorrow here, but I've been told I won't pay anything either. Also sorry to stay without the baby over Christmas, but wanted to have it over asap.

Tony, is the box specially designed to keep the camera safe, or should I prepare it somehow for the transport (wrap in some soft material etc)?

Yes the box is designed for the purpose. There camera is suspended between two membranes in the box. Quite a clever idea and no messing with packing material.

I too am sorry to let the camera go but I thought it was best to get the camera fixed ready for the new year.

Happy New Year!

TT

Tony, please upadte us when you have your machine back. I really don't know whether I should give my V1E to the courier if he arrives tomorrow...

Piotr

You can rest assured as soon as I have information from Sony and/or my camera back I will update you all on the upgrade. I promise.

This is an extremely concerning issue that we face and I welcome the support of other people out there who are also going through the unnecessary aggravation that we currently engaged in.

Happy New Year.

TT

Yes it was Tony. (see above)

A Sony friendly website, with reviews and professional view. I think it is information, now I receive emails from people who want to know...
But I like to work within guidelines, could not see what is wrong, and wait for an answer on this little thing.

Updated review here!

edit: Sorry! Link removed by myself!

You're invited to read the policy for the website. (http://www.dvinfo.net/network/policy.php)
Linking to a discussion thread is not the same as linking to a review or published commentary. Additionally, it is against the site rules to copy/paste posts from other communities. It is a violation of copyright law to do so.

Ok, so we have now ants replacing impressionist painting. Fantastic. I will trade my cam in for a Canon. Hope still can get my money back from the shop.
This is madness.

The madness is in owning a camcorder and rather than testing/learning/experimenting yourself, one trusts the writings of someone else, and in this case, someone who wrote a very flawed article in the first place.
It would take you five minutes or less to test either of these two phenomena, with your own eyes, your own scenes, and your own gear.

No camcorder is without it's flaws. Not suggesting this one has flaws or not. But spend a little time in the Canon, JVC, Panny forums. They all have something that is less than perfect; it might be that whatever small flaws those camcorders have is eggregious to you. For example, as much as I like the HV10/A1, they cannot be used for Xtreme Sports photography of any kind.

Zsolt,

Have you already shipped yours for upgrading?

The madness is in owning a camcorder and rather than testing/learning/experimenting yourself, one trusts the writings of someone else, and in this case, someone who wrote a very flawed article in the first place.
It would take you five minutes or less to test either of these two phenomena, with your own eyes, your own scenes, and your own gear.

DSE, I have the V1E from the first UK batch and it shows the oil paint effect. So far I had no chance to test the "marching ants" phenomenon, as my unit is yet to be updated by Sony, waiting for them to fix it after the holidays. Apparently the ants come after the oil painting, so I have to wait for them to test. I still find it hmm...strange that a fix brings you even worse situation.

In the meantime I have ordered a number of education materials on FCP and V1 (thx for the fast delivery btw) and went for shooting as much as I could in this gloomy winter days.
Despite the 10 dvd set on FCP it took me a day to hook up the V1 on my FCP, finally it works. If I had the chance to post attachments, I would share some clips.
I had to realize that regardless the larger LCD, focusing remained an issue - my ordered laser range finder is on the way. Big LCD is one of the advantages V1 had against Canon - it does not really solve the problem it was considered good for.
V1U is fine, so far no posts about flaws whatsoever - good for you guys in the US. But in Europe a final solution to the flaws seems unpredictable after some relief and Canon's "pseudo" progressive is commented by many as very good. Thats why I am having a head ache now.

Ok, so we have now ants replacing impressionist painting. Fantastic. I will trade my cam in for a Canon. Hope still can get my money back from the shop.
This is madness.

Zsolt I share your concern as well but this is just one report and to be fair the reviewer of that article missed the 25P issues. He back tracks in the first update to the article. He says the progressive looked a little soft! Well, we all know progressive doesn't look a little soft, it looks a lot like crap! How that could be missed should give enough cause for concern over the crawling ants assertions. Crawling ants i.e. over generous edge enhancement can be the cause of that and that does not necessarily mean it was the camera doing it either. Viewing on a consumer grade HDTV is NOT the best way to monitor an image. We don't even know if the camera was plugged in via HDMI or component or whatever. Some component inputs crank up the edge enhancement like crazy. Those crawling ants might be a reflection of the HDTV's handling of 25P rather than the camera.

Let us just wait until we get our cameras back and go from there.

Let's remember is HAS to be more of a complex task to record 24P in a 60i stream than 25P from 50i. If they can do 24P and 30P then 25P should not be beyond the wit of man.

ATB
TT

I had to realize that regardless the larger LCD, focusing remained an issue - my ordered laser range finder is on the way. Big LCD is one of the advantages V1 had against Canon - it does not really solve the problem it was considered good for.
V1U is fine, so far no posts about flaws whatsoever - good for you guys in the US. But in Europe a final solution to the flaws seems unpredictable after some relief and Canon's "pseudo" progressive is commented by many as very good. Thats why I am having a head ache now.

Bear in mind that the "fix" is written about by someone who originally wrote several features that were untrue...so that bears a little weight, IMO.
I'm chuckling at your focus comments; so few people realize that HD is much more sensitive to focus. Use the Peak indicator for focusing, and once you learn how to use it, you'll do alright.

Zsolt,

Have you already shipped yours for upgrading?

No Piotr, like I said in another thread I will wait until January, there are a couple of things I want to shoot during the holiday season, even in interlaced.

It means you will see the ants first, so please let me know once you find them. For some tripod matters I have been in touch with Nigel lately, surely I can ask him about the conditions which would reveal the ants - although he has described the situation pretty clearly in the article.

Let us just wait until we get our cameras back and go from there.

Yes Tony, this is what I will do, knowing that you and Piotr have already sent your units for a fix. Waiting for your comments once you receive your units back.

Use the Peak indicator for focusing, and once you learn how to use it, you'll do alright.

I use it, thats how I know it is a funny little thing. Showing up sometimes from 10m to ∞ when the subject is around 30m, not easy to decide what is in focus. Maybe I need to learn about it more, unfortunately my available resources have only a little info on that.

Yes Tony, this is what I will do, knowing that you and Piotr have already sent your units for a fix. Waiting for your comments once you receive your units back.
I haven't yet, Zsolt! And frankly, I am hesistant whether I should do at this moment...

Showing up sometimes from 10m to ? when the subject is around 30m, not easy to decide what is in focus.

Remember that all these small chip camcorders have tremendous depth of field. Depending on how wide the zoom is and how small the aperture is, it's entirely possible that everything from 10m to infinity actually is in focus.

IMO, there's only one way to understand this sort of thing. Hook your camera up to a monitor or HDTV and just play around with everything, observing what happens. After awhile you will have some confidence in what to expect under different conditions. This approach has served me very well with the HVR-Z1....

[QUOTE=Douglas Spotted Eagle]Bear in mind that the "fix" is written about by someone who originally wrote several features that were untrue...so that bears a little weight, IMO.
QUOTE]

Do not see it as conflicting with DV users to be informed, or to know what this reviewer find out after the Sony fix. But generally YES: Never trust one person for it, be multi-informed.

I have a webadress from a German high profile review that sees the original Sony V1 25p problem too. They describe it a little different; that is always if reviewers or other persons describe with words what they see with there eyes. Its German language.

Have done some comparisons with the fix and the 25P does exhibit edge problems particularly on shiny edges, the interlaced video is perfectly clean.I did not change anything but the progressive mode and took the video immediately one after the other. I would not describe it as extreme but you can definitely see on some edges, a crawling effect.
Sorry, cannot provide the video as I only have dial up.
Michael.

Remember that all these small chip camcorders have tremendous depth of field. Depending on how wide the zoom is and how small the aperture is, it's entirely possible that everything from 10m to infinity actually is in focus.

This is SO true that I suspect most users will simply not believe it. The plain fact is that until you zoom-in perhaps by 2/3 -- everything is focus. Which in turn means AF works very, very well on the V1. It typically has almost nothing to do!

Just received:

"Dear customer,

Thank you for contacting the Sony PrimeSupport helpdesk. Your email will
be passed to the relevant department and you will receive a response in
due course.

Kind Regards

SONY PrimeSupport"