So, Canon A1 price just dropped $300 at B&H.

Now instead of $200 difference, it makes the V1 $500 more than the Canon.

I know this is probably not so significant to the professionals out there, but it is now a more significant difference to us prosumers. For the same price of the V1, you can now get the Canon AND a Varizoom Stabilizer; or the Canon plus a 0.75 Wide Angle Converter Lens for only $350 more than the V1.

I was leaning toward getting the V1 as soon as some tests confirmed the camera, but boy, the decision just got more difficult again.

I'm sure this was no accident that Canon did this right now with the V1 release.

Anyone see any equivalent drop from Sony anywhere?

I know a bit about marketing. Sony probably feels its too early in the release to respond. They figure they will wait until they have exhausted the early adopters purchasing before they need to make price more competitive again.

Decisions... decisions...

Has any regular guy even seen the V1U yet ? I saw on another thread that the V1E had a 25p issue, and I am wondering if that is what is delaying the V1U, ie., a similar problem with 24p....

The V1U is *not* delayed. It was scheduled to be shipping around December 15, and by all indications, it is still on schedule. Remember, it ships to the manufacturers warehouse, then ships to retailers, then ships to consumers. It's not a direct line from Japan to your door. My understanding (and I could be very wrong) is that the units were supposed to leave Japan around the first of December. Factor in a 2 week trek across the ocean...

A Guy elsewhere has posted that B&H told him it will now take 4 weeks to get one if he placed an order today - so is their first shipment totally spoken for I guess?

My bad, then. Sorry.

"Factor in a 2 week trek across the ocean..."

I'm gonna paddle out and get mine!!!!

The Canon does look tempting. It's cheaper and in stock which I guess does go along with the whole "bird in the hand" saying. It also looks like a fine piece of equipment. I do think Sony has missed some opportunity as it's almost too late to get in before Christmas. I'm going on a two-week trip and the 23rd is the last day the V1 can get to me so I can practice with it in Palm Springs. Perhaps cameras like this aren't really Christmas items anyway and it won't have any impact on Sony.

Marcus

I think you'll find it worth the wait for a V1u even though the Canon is a very fine camera.

There is only a cigarette paper width between the cameras each having strengths and weaknesses. I chose the Sony over the Canon in 4 areas; the image of the Sony pushed more buttons for me; I found the LCD size and monitoring features on the Sony to be better with histogram, peaking and zebras you'll really have a good idea of what you are capturing; the V1 is much lighter and smaller better for my Merlin; and finally the silver support next day pick up of camera and loan of another if there was ever a problem.

It is a really tough call though.

TT

You're preaching to the choir, Tony. I already have mine on pre-order from B&H. I am impressed by the exact same list of features as you. I am also intrigued by the HDMI output. I will be ecstatic if I can plug the cam into a standard computer LCD for monitoring video. In the future, it may come in handy for recording uncompressed. Until then, the features you list are what made my decision. I really look forward to using histogram and peaking functions. It's almost like having DVRack built into the camera. Still, I was really hoping to get it before my trip so I could practice with it in my ample spare time.

Even though I am a Sony fan, I think camera choice is so personal to how a person works that I recommend everyone also consider the Canon A1 as it looks very nice, only different. I really just don't think there are any cameras out there that can match the color reproduction of the V1 (except something $$$$$).

I'm sure this was no accident that Canon did this right now with the V1 release.

It could also be the result of one of 520 tarriff suspensions passed by the 109th Congress in the wee hours of last Saturday morning reducing or eliminating tarrifs on imported camcorders.

Like a lot of people, I've been weighing the V1U against the Canon A1.

I was favoring a V1 for all the reasons Tony mentions. But the V1 progressive problems have me concerned and are affecting my decision more even than the nice price drop. Now I'm favoring the Canon.

Both are great tools, but I've heard of no manufacturing problems with the Canon.

Like a lot of people, I've been weighing the V1U against the Canon A1.

I was favoring a V1 for all the reasons Tony mentions. But the V1 progressive problems have me concerned and are affecting my decision more even than the nice price drop. Now I'm favoring the Canon.

Both are great tools, but I've heard of no manufacturing problems with the Canon.

From the reports so far the progressive issues have been confined to the V1E and not the V1U.

I am on the list to get the first wave from B&H when they arrive today or tomorrow. Even though I'm not going to use my cam for 24p often I will certainly do a test and report my findings as well as some sample files for others to evaluate. Expect something a day or so after I get the box.

Chris

Marcus

I think you'll find it worth the wait for a V1u even though the Canon is a very fine camera....
TT

Tony (or anyone):

I'm getting ready to shoot my first low-budget feature. Do you have the same opinion about waiting when talking about the JVC GY-HD110U versus the Sony, or is this apples to oranges?

Thanks, from someone needing a good opinion!

Chris

Chris

The only advice I can really give you is to go to a reputable dealer and demo all the current HDV cameras from Sony, JVC and Canon.

What fits my criteria is probably quite different to yours. All these lo-cost HD solutions have strengths and weaknesses and the task is to fit as many of the strengths of a particular camera to your own requirements. One of my main criteria was to have a big LCD screen and monitoring functions, this histogram display being priceless. I found it easier to attain focus with the V1 peaking and expanded focus than I could on the Canon. It's highly unlikely I'll ever be connected to a monitor, as you might on set making a feature, so your requirements might be different.

The cameras are so well matched it really is a difficult choice but you _will_ be delighted with whichever one you choose. There are so many factors that are either subjective or purely down to personal choice that a trip to a dealer for hands on is a must. A good dealer will listen to what you want from the camera and help you come to the right decision.

I know that's a non answer but it's the only one I can honestly give you.

TT

If you have not preordered from B&H will you now have to wait for a later shipment?

Being the ONLY-SONY follower for the last 10 years, I decided to put my money on Canon XH-A1 for this time for many good reasons:

1. Sony V1E (yes I am in PAL country, Malaysia) is not the upgrade of Z1, I find Sony disappoints it's loyalist by making FX7 the upgrade of FX1 but not V1 to Z1.

2. Canon L len is not just beautiful, it is wider and come with three rings of zoom, focus & iris control. Not to mention those friendly buttons all over the camcoder while Sony have them built in the menu (no wonder Sony needs bigger LCD).

3. Sony CMOS might have slightly better dynamic-range but it is still not meeting what I would expect from a CMOS sensor while at the same time, Canon's 4lux look much promising then Sony 4lux.

4. Canon set a good price, with the money I save from buying V1E, I can get a very good lighting kit for A1 if low-light & gain are not my preference. I have just placed my order with local Canon dealer even the price is still higher then US & Europe after currency conversion!

5. The 25p issue really makes me nervous (even I don't shoot 25p!), it is very difficult (if not impossible) to test the camcorder before orderring it at Malaysia (the market here is not big so no dealer will keep demo unit just for your pleasure). And if you receive a broken unit, you are on your own, Sony is not going to give me replacement or refund based on any poor test result made by this great forum (Thanks to Tony for sharing it out to us). They would tell me "it is a very subjective opinion..." or "based on our expertise, that is not an issue at all!".

6. Sony has relatively poor & expensive service here.. it wasn't like this in the past.. I will miss the old-day Sony but now I look forward the new Canon support center which is just nearby my office. Recently I've bought few Canon pro-camera & printer, soon I was invited to their serminal to share experience with other industry players. While being so supportive to Sony for so many years, I have never feel like a customer but a servant to Sony product (just very personal and very emotional feeling ;p).

What held my decision for so long not to buy A1 were:
1. The weight, V1E is a lot lighter
2. The long operation hour, malaysia wedding typically takes 16 hours to complete, i will need more Canon batteries.
3. The so call ClearVid breakthrough technology from Sony. Perhaps I shall wait until Sony 3CMOS 1/3" Z7.5 comes out.

Thanks for everyone being so helpful to share your great knowledge at here, now I just need to wait for 2 weeks then I will have my rocky A1 :-D.

Ing

. . . and finally the silver support next day pick up of camera and loan of another if there was ever a problem.
TT

Would like to know more about "silver support". Is it particular to a dealer, the UK . . . ?

Sounds important but have not seen it referred to before.

Is there already a Sony V1 vs Canon A1 thread already going?

If not, I think it's about time - someone ought start one! ;)

Btw, wow, the V1U is $800 CDN more expensive on a retailer's site.. that's getting close to $1000 more. Yeah, I love(d) the V1.. but good points are being made ... good points ...

Of course, most of us are the early-adopter, innovator types, so.

Would like to know more about "silver support". Is it particular to a dealer, the UK . . . ?

Sounds important but have not seen it referred to before.

For more info go to;

www.sonybiz.net/primesupport

You get 2 years silver support.

Personally, I think it could be worth its weight in gold, er, silver...

TT

Is there already a Sony V1 vs Canon A1 thread already going?

If not, I think it's about time - someone ought start one! ;)

There is only one way that is going to end...CLOSED.

:)

Having tested the two cameras it is hugely close and really down to a matter of personal preference on so many factors.

TT

Is there already a Sony V1 vs Canon A1 thread already going?

If not, I think it's about time - someone ought start one! ;)

Hmm, I just might start one. I've looked at these cameras so closely I've pretty much memorized the specs. I'll see if I can get my info together and get a thread going.

I think the Canon A1 is a fine camera and almost anyone would be perfectly happy with it. That wide angle zoom range is especially sweet. And now the pricing is even more attractive, which makes for a very compelling argument for the A1. This is going to put a lot of pressure on Sony to lower their prices. They may not do it initially to hit up the early adopters but based on some trade show special pricing I've seen for the V1U, I know there is still some wiggle room to go down from the current prices.

Tony can you just sum it up quickly?

The site appears to be just United Kingdom and it does not supply all info such as pricing, other countries info, etc...

1. does this level of support cost extra - sounds like it does?
2. Is it available world-wide?
3. if this costs money, can you still get free software updates without buying this package?
4. how does Mack fit into all this?

Remember folks - some credit cards will double the manufacturures warranty for free if you buy it with their card.

ALSO - I just remembered. The Mack 4-year warranty changes prices for a sub-$5000 camera. So that makes the A1 not $500 cheaper, but $560 dollars cheaper than the A1 if you are getting a Mack warranty.

Sony - are you listening??? ;-)

The US probably has different support arrangements as there is no US listed in the county pull down menu.

I'd get in touch with your dealers to see what equivalent support arrangements are/not in place.

ATB
TT

WOW!

Tim, I had forgotten about the camera lense angle differences.

So IF wider angles are really important to you (and they aren't to everyone), the price difference gets even larger now.

So now if you compare Canon A1 with 32.5mm default lense and 4-year Mack warranty, to the Sony V1 (37.5mm default) with an optional 30mm wide angle converter lense + Mack warranty...

- the Canon is now $1220 cheaper!

You can also maybe argue that maybe you dont need an optional monitor with the Sony becasue of its histograms but you do with the Canon so that makes them about the same price again - it all shifts depending on your individual needs doesnt it?

Boy, the Sony seemed the way to go before these added difference price issues made the decision even harder. I still am not sure which way to go and now things are certainly less clear.

hmmmmmm...

I'd like to see Sony do what it did with the PD170..

give the wide angle lens for free and give a $300 rebate...

and if Sony was Santa they'd also give us the Vegas Software to boot....

That'd keep the Canon off base...