Hi my dear neighbour Ian :D, nice to know you here :D. I haven't own a 35mm adapter yet but definitely I believe it will be as challenging and as rewarding to have it for videoing wedding ceremony (as I am tired to those deep DOF camera especially HDV which reveals everything clear and sharp).

I guess you are probably chinese too so you would know how "chaos" & rushing the typical chinese wedding is. Thus an adapter along can't do the job, I believe a FF is a must for such dynamic and live environment. Also I must have at least two cameras working on the field, one without 35mm adapter for usual shot, one with 35mm adapter for interest composition and special moments.

I would have to get one adapter and try it out before I can really comment how good I can apply it to wedding video. I will let you know when I got one :-).


Yes, typical chinese weddings are absolutely 'chaos' :) I'm doing a lot of weddings too and currently I'm waiting for Brevis to arrive. My consideration is if you're going to use 35mm adapter, it would take at least THREE cameras working on the field (I'm doing 2 cameras shooting all the time). One with the adapter (just for special moments) and the other two without adapter.

And yes, there will be blood :)

It is always fun to talk about the "results" of these "tests" but, as Phil points out, you cant make sweeping conclusions. Add the fact that conditions werent optimum, one was professionally set up and used different lenses and you really muddy the waters. What this really proves, is that all 3 adapters are good enough. It is like the XL2 versus DVX or A1 versus HVX tests and arguments, all are good enough, if they werent, there would be nobody who cared enough to argue.

One interesting thing is that people are talking about the dynamic range of the Brevis. The standard diffuser, CF1, diffuses less...which of course effects exposure. It is ultimately the CAMERA not the adapter that determines dynamic range. It is like saying a Canon F1.2 lens has less dynamic range than a Canon F4 lens.

I have used an earlier revision of the Brevis and liked it but decided to try out several other adapters before committing. All were good enough, so I chose the Brevis based on ease of use, multiple set-up options and ultimately what I consider the most forward thinking developer. When it arrives in the next couple weeks I will be pushing it to the limit on some MAJOR projects. Stuff that will be shown on major network TV, in theaters, etc. so I will keep you posted...




ash =o)

Phil, you mentioned this on the shootout (review):

"I have a couple of Nikon mount Zeiss Planar lenses. Nice optics but focus pulls are tough as there is a lot of travel to change focus. Much more than the equivalent Nikor lenses. I wouldn’t really recommend them for adaptors."

Is it really hard to use those lenses (to pull focus)? I'm planning to purchase on of those: http://www.jpckemang.com/detail.php?cid=2987646203ee60b7f746f5&sid=6458256403ee69a02c28f6&mid=11896756634576b720b8d0a&pid=12830086804577aa2f80f3e

Yes, typical chinese weddings are absolutely 'chaos' :) I'm doing a lot of weddings too and currently I'm waiting for Brevis to arrive. My consideration is if you're going to use 35mm adapter, it would take at least THREE cameras working on the field (I'm doing 2 cameras shooting all the time). One with the adapter (just for special moments) and the other two without adapter.

And yes, there will be blood :)

Hi Ian, look like you are going to get an adapter earlier then me, please do share your experience to me once you have them :D. Do you also get the FF or you already have one ? What camera do you use ?

Hope to learn from you more soon ; ).

The way the CF screens work, correct me if I am wrong Dennis, is you always start with the standard CF1 then add either the CF2 or CF3 on top of it.

Trust me Ing, you WILL want the standard screen for inside and low light, especially if you want to do weddings with it.

The CF1 and CF2 diffusers function together. The CF3 replaces them completely and functions alone.

Gosh...shooting a wedding with an adapter would be a LOT of fun but just soo much more work. I can't imagine it...however I've always done my weddings alone so I'm running from place to place to get all the shots and can't imagine changing lenses or dealing with adapter issues on top of that...

Thank you both, I thought CF1,2 & 3 are independent to each other, sound like I can't avoid to invest in all of them if I go for Brevis.

One question (stupid one again), can I easily replace the CF without removing mattebox, FF & Brevis once they are attached to the camera ? Shooting between indoor and outdoor happens very frequently in typical chinese wedding, if I have to get off the whole gear just to replace a CF, then get back to put on filters, adjust aperture, check exposure and shoot.. mostly I will miss the important shot already.

If that is not easy, then I would have to have 3 cameras working on the field, one with adapter indoor, one with adapter outdoor, one without for regular shot.. Oh, Ian Lim, is this what you are thinking ? This is truely blooding work...

You need to remove the carbon tube to replace the CF, so you probably would have to remove the matte box and others when doing so.

You have to be careful of dusty environments too so changing it on the run may not be such a wise idea.

If you really need both CF1 and CF3 on a shoot... it'd be best to just have two Brevis units. If you have time before a shoot to change diffusers, then you only need one.

without a doubt changing diffusers during a wedding is a terrible idea. It's bad enough changing lenses!!!

The Zeiss lenses are lovely stills lenses but I think you are better off with the Nikors unless you invest in a good follow focus for them. The travel is so great to change focus

Phil, we're working on the issue of travel with both electronic and manual version of our FF units. The electronic is super simple as turn ratios can be altered with the flip of a switch. The manual unit will have several drive gears so turn ratio can be altered.

Diffuser swaps are not something I'd suggest at a wedding! However, if you have a clean space and 5 minutes of peace...it's completely doable. You can however get a lot of different looks with CF1 (my choice for weddings where low light is a factor) by simply using a longer lens. Phil showed outstanding control of DOF with different lenses in his Homeless Portraits (http://www.cinevate.com/images/homeless2.mov) clip using CF1.

Ben, we stopped CF3 production for a week or so to improve yield. We've back in production so CF3 should be out to you tomorrow with your drive upgrade parts.

Phil, 12 000 hits ... you've generated an astonishing level of interest in this thread!

Hi Ian, look like you are going to get an adapter earlier then me, please do share your experience to me once you have them :D. Do you also get the FF or you already have one ? What camera do you use ?

Hope to learn from you more soon ; ).

Ing, I'm using Sony FX1E and I have 4 of them. I don't have any FF yet, still waiting for Cinevate's or something from Hyson (www.hysonfilms.com -- btw, anyone got news from Joel?). But absolutely I will want FF to ease everything.

Dennis

Anyone tried out the Brevis with the JVC HD200...I er...bought one. I tried it at the videoforum exhib at Earls Court today and thought it was really lovely..Image flip in camera and vignette correction...now if you could come up with a relay for it I would create a shrine to you in my front room!

I think I may well be selling my HVX now...shame, it's just the p2 workflow is not good for a jobbing freelancer without transfering to tape for them

I'll be using my HD100 with the Brevis soon and would pay homage to Phil's shrine for someone to make a relay. Dennis is working on it so it may just be him.

Congrats on your purchase, Phil. I hope it does you well. I know I love the form factor of the camera. The good news for me is that I figured out how to physically flip my viewfinder... Add a Marshall on top and I'm all set.

Dennis

Anyone tried out the Brevis with the JVC HD200...I er...bought one. I tried it at the videoforum exhib at Earls Court today and thought it was really lovely..Image flip in camera and vignette correction...now if you could come up with a relay for it I would create a shrine to you in my front room!



Phil

How about posting some footage from the HD200 with the 35mm adaptors you have?

Thanks


Andrew

Phil

How about posting some footage from the HD200 with the 35mm adaptors you have?

Thanks


Andrew

Hi Drew

only got camera today. Just getting to grips with it. Got the Brevis on the camera but it needs a small spacer to get past the edges. Havent tried the redrock yet. Dont like the idea of using their rod system as I will lose the shoulder mount so need to think about that one. But the flip is so nice and the viewfinder and lcd are pretty damn good, especially with focus assist

Hey phill,
I've been following your review and have been wanting to thank you for a long time.
so, my question:
what did you mean by Flip?
is the Brevis Flip operational?

very intriguing..

Thanks Lior

It has certainly generated a lot of interest, as long as it has informed people a bit about the differences then it has done it's job.

There is no Brevis flip currently, if there was it would still lose a stop and a half or so unless Dennis has performed magic making it.

Personally I don't need one now...my new camera, yes another camera is the new JVC HD201E. IT IS AMAZING!!! I believe it is currently the perfect adaptor camera for two very important reasons. One it is shoulder mounted and two it has a built in flip for viewfinder, lcd and recording. YES you no longer have to do some magnet trip, stick a bit of metal in a hinge or have to mount a monitor upside down, you can use the camera like you are supposed to, on your shoulder with the viewfinder to your eye. Finally I can shoot 35m stuff like I shoot normally with the pro cameras. It is a complete revelation. The viewfinder is pretty damn sharp, no focus issues, especially with JVCs incredible focus assist, like peaking but better. The LCD is also pin sharp, better than the Z1s. All in all this is the camera to use for adaptors and once Dennis makes a relay for the Brevis or Redrock for the M2 it will be even better as it is slightly longer than I would like due to having to use the stock lens but the lens is still within easy reach to focus.

I really cannot sing this combo's praises enough. shooting 35mm stuff is going to be a darn sight easier from now on!

Unfortunately I feel down the stairs yesterday whilst doing an early spring clean so am rather house bound, I will try and crawl out of my bed tomorrow and do some test shots with it and post on the web.

Looks very nice. I was hoping to be able to do the handheld run&gun thing with the HD100 and Brevis and your pic shows that you can. How does the Focus Assist work with the primes? Still getting the blue lines? Can't wait to get my adaptor....

I hope you recover soon. ;-)

Cameraman's back never good, even before falling down the stairs!

The focus assist is actually really quite subtle with the adaptor on, you have to really look hard to see it but i find the viewfinder so sharp and crisp you can really tell when you have focus, compared to what I was getting with the HVX it's like having corrective laser eye surgery!

Fell down the stairs...yikes. Evidently you're still typing :-) I guess I better get on that relay lens project sooner than later. Btw, our latest adjustable brevis clamp should work on those rails Phil.

Phil.

"Backs" aren't funny and you definitely have my sympathies on that one.

You might investigate getting a vest. Ask your doc about it. There is some resistence to these things as they tend to provoke a need to visit the throne room due to abdominal compression, are generally a bit uncomfortable and restrictive and there is always the joke baggage about women's corsets.

You don't have to wear it all the time but pre-emptively if you sense that back strain is going to be an issue over a long day. It may helpextend the working life of your back in the occupation which is your passion and enjoyment.

Again ask your doc on that one for what I spout here is likely to be rubbish.

I think you will find the JVC flavour of focus assist actually seems to work better with an adaptor as the "in-focus" subject seems to be more differentiated than with the deeper depth of field with the normal lens direct-to-camera. where in a hurry I find myself getting confused.

I am also a shortsighted cameraman which is not good because in a life of soft focus as a "normality" one sometimes forgets the image needs to be sharpened. The focus assist tends to remind one of the fact and becomes reflexive to use.

Leastways that was my brief experience with the JVC-Mini35.

Fell down the stairs...yikes. Evidently you're still typing :-) I guess I better get on that relay lens project sooner than later. Btw, our latest adjustable brevis clamp should work on those rails Phil.

How long before you will have a working one Dennis? By the way did you get my question I emailed you about the CF2 issue I was having? Only managed to shoot stuff in the house with the Brevis and JVC so far, but I am amazed at how much you can get away with no extra lights even without gain.

with regards to relays for the jvc...is there anyone with much experience with the mini 35 who thinks it could be possible to take the relay for that camera and use it with other adaptors out there. likewise, take quyen's letus relay and adapt it for other adaptors?

I have made a little short round the corner from me where I filmed the shootout. It's on my website under "35mm shorts 2" and more in depth in the shootout section under it's own page.

Phil

P.S. I also did some fine tuning with the Nikon mount on both Brevis adaptors. Really hard to get it exactly right, but it paid off in the end. Got some very sharp images and real edge to edge sharpness too.

Phil, great shots and composition. On the shorts 2 film I noticed vignetting on left and right edges of images. Was this done in post or in camera? It's not overly obvious, but enough to notice if you didn't want it there to begin with.

Any pictures of the rig - that would be sweet to see as well!

I own a Sony Z1 equipped with a chrosziel mattebox.
This mattebox already gives me a support system.
I suppose I only need to get longer rods if I want to use a brevis or m2 with it..
I think the brevis suits my needs best. Quick set up/light weight.
Will the brevis supportadapter fit on the rods of my chrosziel?
The chrosziel rods are 15mm thick and have 4.5 cm space in between them.
Is Cinevate supplying extra long rods? How thick are they.
Anyone experience with this set up?
Advice highly appreciated.

Great images, Phil. Your compositional skills are top notch. Especially when it's cold out it can be very difficult to still think artistically! It's too bad this couldn't be posted in HD to get a better idea of the sharpness. The compression can kill the actual quality sometimes. Do you have any stills you could share? It looks pretty sharp in places!

Jane, I'd suggest contacting Dennis or going over to the Cinevate forums at this point. http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/index.php I know he does custom cuts for rod length as I ordered 18 inchers from him for only a little extra. Can't let you know of the quality yet as they are hopefully going to be in the mail this week... Right, Dennis? ;-) But I'm sure they're great. He has made sure they're industry standard to an exacting degree so I think they'd work with your setup. But ask just to make sure.

I've been trying to contact you, but with no luck. I ordered the Brevis, Rail Support, Rails and Cinefuse3 and have a couple of questions.

I'd also like to add 2 items to the order before it ships. The Step Down Ring for cameras like the HVX and the Spacer for cameras like the XH A1.

Shoot me an email when you get a chance.

Thanks.

Ryan, we've just moved web providers, (successfully for a change) and will be catching up with email over the next day or two :-) If you sent the email between 10pm and 4am, it may have gone astray as the DNS entries were propagated..so please resend it :-)

Phil, check your email!

Jane, our support will work with your rails, and in a week or so, expect the release of a new adjustable height mount.

I own a Sony Z1 equipped with a chrosziel mattebox.
This mattebox already gives me a support system.
I suppose I only need to get longer rods if I want to use a brevis or m2 with it..
I think the brevis suits my needs best. Quick set up/light weight.
Will the brevis supportadapter fit on the rods of my chrosziel?
The chrosziel rods are 15mm thick and have 4.5 cm space in between them.
Is Cinevate supplying extra long rods? How thick are they.
Anyone experience with this set up?
Advice highly appreciated.

You need rods with the M2, if you opt for your own rods then you will have a nightmare getting in lined up. The M2's rods system are optimized for tweakig the position to get it lined up.

Rods aren't so important for the Brevis, but if you use them yours will be fine. I am using ENG support rods for my JVC and they are fine. As long as they are standard 15mm you won't have a problem.

Phil

Phil, great shots and composition. On the shorts 2 film I noticed vignetting on left and right edges of images. Was this done in post or in camera? It's not overly obvious, but enough to notice if you didn't want it there to begin with.

Any pictures of the rig - that would be sweet to see as well!


There is a combination of intentional and unavoidable vignetting. To get the full wide of the 20mm a bit of vignetting crept it but I actually thought it added to the look so I didn't zoom past it. I liked it so much put vignetting in some of the shots by stopping down the SLR lens.

I will put some screen grabs up on the site.

There is a pic of the rig on the page in the shootout section and on another thread somewhere on here so I can't put it on this thread too!

thnx for all your advice guys! I joined the cinevate forum.
it all looks clear to me now :-) what I need. The brevis will be my next purchase. The fact that it blends with the camera is also a big plus to me.
Will I be able to flip the image on my lcd by using a magnet ? ( sony z1 )

I now use a canon 1.4 tele on my z1 to get a nice depth of field if the shot is suitable. ( using step down rings)
But of course this lens has limited possibilities.....
Does anyone have experience with using the tamron tele for the canon eos 400 with the brevis? Which lenses would you suggest? I have to decide which brand I am going to use.... availability in the 2nd hand market is important as well. sorry for all the questions....

thnx for all your advice guys! I joined the cinevate forum.
it all looks clear to me now :-) what I need. The brevis will be my next purchase. The fact that it blends with the camera is also a big plus to me.
Will I be able to flip the image on my lcd by using a magnet ? ( sony z1 )

I now use a canon 1.4 tele on my z1 to get a nice depth of field if the shot is suitable. ( using step down rings)
But of course this lens has limited possibilities.....
Does anyone have experience with using the tamron tele for the canon eos 400 with the brevis? Which lenses would you suggest? I have to decide which brand I am going to use.... availability in the 2nd hand market is important as well. sorry for all the questions....

How long is the tamron. I am finding anything over 180mm gets severe vignetting with the Brevis..this may be fixed now though. Sony Z1 magnet flip is easiest one out there. You need the tiniest magnet and it works great.

How long is the tamron. I am finding anything over 180mm gets severe vignetting with the Brevis..this may be fixed now though. Sony Z1 magnet flip is easiest one out there. You need the tiniest magnet and it works great.

Great to hear that the magnet trick works with my z1!
the tamron is: AF75-300mm F/4-5.6 LD Macr...... so I guess using this lens is a bit too much for the brevis?

Hi Jane

it is too long and much too slow. I wouldn't touch anything over f2.8

Aim for prime lenses around f1.8 or f1.4 if you can afford them. My sigma 20mm is f1.8 and my vivitar 135mm is f2.3. my 35mm, 50mm and 85mm are f1.4/ I have a zoom that is f2.8 24mm to 70mm and it works fine.

I have now uploaded a hgh resolution file

http://www.1080studio.com/philipbloom/jvcbrevis2.mp4

it is over 60mb. Thanks to Chris Witzke for hosting the file for me!

Downloading the new file now. Thanks!

I would disagree on the longer lens. You might find a use for it outdoors where there's plenty of light. But certainly a 2.8 or less would look much better for DOF and be more flexible indoors. If price is a concern, I shop used at B&H, Adorama, KEH, and other random stores. I got most of my Nikon primes for < $100, but if you shop for non-Nikons you could get a good set for much less yet. I don't think the quality will be much different for adapter use but I'm not sure on all brands or focal lengths. I got a "Miscellaneous Brand" 28mm from KEH for $20 and it's quite sharp.

I didn't know about the vignetting. Why would this happen??

f2.8 is the slowest lens I own, having wasted money buying slower originally. Way too limiting.

Dont know why the longer lenses vigenette with the Brevis, Dennis Wood did explain it to me a while back and there is a possible solution.

If you guy's want wicked DOF control... mount one of these babies to your adaptor....

http://www.lensbabies.com/index.php?r=GSLensbaby

I've used them for stills when "artsy" was the goal.... the new one actually locks down.. the old version was like playing a trombone to focus.....

CA's pretty bad if you bend it to the extreme.... so I tend to go B&W or at least a sepia tent to hide the CA.

quite fancy trying that out!

Thanks for the hosting of my file Chris. Am doing a re encode now as there was a bad shot in the edit that I had to replace!!

ya... the lensbabies create the look of tilt/shift of large format bellows camera.... I think it would be nearly impossible to use handheld in a camcorder..... but for product like a wine bottle when on sticks.... cool.

don't expect top tier optics... although the version 3 is much better than previous ones.

actually.... might be interesting to mount directly on the jvc? at 50mm it might be too long thoough aye?

also... the concept of the screws might be a nice way to set backfocus and keystoning of the ground glass in the adaptors.... not having to crach one open.... hmm.... lets go a bit further with the idea and bypass the focusing of the 35mm lens.... and create a follow focus that moves the 35mm lens near and far! Just a big knob on the DOF adaptor! never touch the 35mm lens!

OK... I've had way to much esspresso this morning!

There is a combination of intentional and unavoidable vignetting. To get the full wide of the 20mm a bit of vignetting crept it but I actually thought it added to the look so I didn't zoom past it. I liked it so much put vignetting in some of the shots by stopping down the SLR lens.

I will put some screen grabs up on the site.

There is a pic of the rig on the page in the shootout section and on another thread somewhere on here so I can't put it on this thread too!

Sorry if I missed this, but what lens was used? I would really love to see the results using a PL mount lens.

Phil, did you sell your other cameras or keep 'em?

i am trying to sell my hvx at the mo!

Me too actually, buy mine and I'll buy yours ; )

you getting any sniffs of interest? What you buying instead? Did you ever use your hvx?

Hi Phil,

I was wondering how much in sterling your Brevis ended up costing with delivery and any duty paid?

I am looking to buy and still swithering between the revis and the SGPro...

Also, what lenses would you recomend for a bloke on a budget?

Still havent managed to watch your Channel 4 documentary - 4oD REALLY need to get some Mac support!


Jim

Well I just listed it so we'll see. I haven't used it other than turning it on to make sure it works. I don't know if you read it in my other post but I was considering having the stock lens removed and body adapted to C-mount or bayonet mount for direct use with 35mm adapters, but was going to have my own relay lens assembly designed. This coupled with the built in features of the HVX and ability to record o P2 make it one heck a killer combo! I'm still not overly fond of HDV, like I said before I'm torn in which direction to go. I'm currently using Canon with the PS Technik mini35.

Hi Phil,

I was wondering how much in sterling your Brevis ended up costing with delivery and any duty paid?

I am looking to buy and still swithering between the revis and the SGPro...

Also, what lenses would you recomend for a bloke on a budget?

Still havent managed to watch your Channel 4 documentary - 4oD REALLY need to get some Mac support!


Jim

don't bother the first doco was pants, my stuff was less than a quarter. The stuff with most of the brevis and m2 footage airs in a couple of weeks or so...you can get them off bittorrent!

Brevis and duty came to around a thousand quid...lenses look for f1.8 used manual focus nikkors. work a treat

Thank you Phil for your confirmation, so overexposure is nothing to do with Brevis...

... Like a recent footage from Brevis user: Christopher Barry at www.siliconcine.net, he got the similar problem in handling exposure in his latest outdoor test (test 3, Brevis with Nikon 85mm F2.0), either too bright or the front-object is too dark to see...

Ing, thanks for taking the time to look at my first little test of the Brevis and the HVX for that matter. What I have not done is taken the time to read all of this thread, hopefully later tonight I will.

Regarding that 85mm test, I had just broken the FW connection to the mobo on my notebook which records via DV Rack, so I was kind of upset, in a hurry and just wanted to try an outdoor and the 85mm. The Dynamic Range of light between exposing the background and subject was too broad. I should have setup a light/CTB. My observation of this shot is that the Brevis functions well with amazingly low levels of light, even though we did a poor job of scene setup.

I hope this is not too late in the thread to reply and this is my first post on DVi, first Brevis test and early days as a user of the HVX. In a few weeks from now, I will have some more tests and setups to share.

edit: Thanks to Steve Madsen, some of the test footage is from his HVX/Brevis combo 720p25. My HVX/Brevis combo 720p24. Great to have two cams and Brevis' and be only a relatively short drive away.

I'm still going to do my tests with the ND filter and Low Contrast filter, but since they're special-ordered they're taking quite some time to come.

Ing, thanks for taking the time to look at my first little test of the Brevis and the HVX for that matter. What I have not done is taken the time to read all of this thread, hopefully later tonight I will.

Regarding that 85mm test, I had just broken the FW connection to the mobo on my notebook which records via DV Rack, so I was kind of upset, in a hurry and just wanted to try an outdoor and the 85mm. The Dynamic Range of light between exposing the background and subject was too broad. I should have setup a light/CTB. My observation of this shot is that the Brevis functions well with amazingly low levels of light, even though we did a poor job of scene setup.

I hope this is not too late in the thread to reply and this is my first post on DVi, first Brevis test and early days as a user of the HVX. In a few weeks from now, I will have some more tests and setups to share.

edit: Thanks to Steve Madsen, some of the test footage is from his HVX/Brevis combo 720p25. My HVX/Brevis combo 720p24. Great to have two cams and Brevis' and be only a relatively short drive away.

Hi Christopher, thank you very much for paying attention to this thread especially to my comment on your quick test (without even acknowledge you first ;p). I am going away for 2 weeks chinese new year holiday from 18th Feb, these days I just busy on buying gift to my family. I find it is too hard to justify between SGPro & Brevis so I hold up myself to make decision now.

If you can help to produce more test, that would be very helpful to me especially you are from Australia, plenty of sunshine at the moment :D.

I will see you all after holiday :D.

Ing, the Brevis is on the road at the moment. I should have it back around the time of your return, so I hope to soon thereafter have a few more tests uploaded.

Have a good break/celebration.