I'm seriously looking into buying a 330 but I can't for the life of me figure out how. Basically, I'm going from prosumer world to pro and need some help making the jump. I'm used to buying cameras with the lens, and everything included for one (usually lower than $5k) price. So, I really want the functionality of the 330, the 1/2" chip, and all but I don't know squat about lenses (really) and I'd rather not pay an exhorbinant amount for one. Of course, I understand the "glass is it" but I don't even know who to start talking to about this stuff. Also, financing for a big $22k or so purchase like this. Do people normally work directly with Sony financing, or just get a loan from the bank? Basically, I'm looking for the 330 starter kit or something, with like two batteries, a serviceable lens, etc. Any ideas on where to go, or who to talk to?

Thanks very much!
Max

Max,

You would be well off to talk with one of our DVINFO sponsors. The F330 is available in a lens included configuration. The F350 requires a separate lens purchase.

Also, when you get into cameras such as this, batteries, chargers, ac adapters are not included. You'll need to budget about an extra grand for those items.

I'm not aware of anyone doing starter kits yet for this camera.

-gb-

If you want your 330 to rock, then you are probably looking at spending a bundle on an HD lens. Canon and Fuji have them and there has been a discussion of them on this board. My recommendation is to go down to a reseller
that actually has the camera on display and will allow you to fiddle around with both SD lenses and HD lenses. I like Abel Cine in New York City---but if you go to Sony's site, they should have a listing for a dealer in your area.

Where do you live?--sorry just noticed you are in Texas. By the way, on June 28th, Sony and Apple are doing a free seminar on the system in Dallas. You might consider attending that and asking some questions. I am sure they will have demo units and lenses.


http://seminars.apple.com/go/sonytour/indextrk.html?s=2&cid=WWW-D060526FCSSONY-DO7XZ

If you want your 330 to rock, then you are probably looking at spending a bundle on an HD lens. Canon and Fuji have them and there has been a discussion of them on this board. My recommendation is to go down to a reseller
that actually has the camera on display and will allow you to fiddle around with both SD lenses and HD lenses. I like Abel Cine in New York City---but if you go to Sony's site, they should have a listing for a dealer in your area.

Where do you live?--sorry just noticed you are in Texas. By the way, on June 28th, Sony and Apple are doing a free seminar on the system in Dallas. You might consider attending that and asking some questions. I am sure they will have demo units and lenses.


http://seminars.apple.com/go/sonytour/indextrk.html?s=2&cid=WWW-D060526FCSSONY-DO7XZ

Umm...Dave, I think you have me confused with Max. And yes, I will be attending the Apple/Sony seminar in Dallas. I already have the 350 with Fujinon HD glass on it.

-gb-

Geeze Greg--I'm losing it!

Unfortunately, I have no way of seeing this camera before purchasing. I live in Bellingham, WA. And, as far as I know, I can't even see it in Seattle. Anyhow, at this point, I know I'm getting the camera, I'm just trying to figure out which lens to get. I can get the Fujinon HD lens for $7,800. But how much am I going to miss by not getting an HD lens. And, if I don't get the HD lens, where can I get a good used 2/3" piece of glass and which one is good?

Sorry about this, but I'm moving up from a Sony FX1 here and there are just a lot more tings to consider.

Is there like an analogy or something someone could give about HD vs. SD lenses?

Thanks!
Max

Max--if you are going to make this kind of investment, I would seriously consider getting on a plane and spending a day at the closest Sony dealer. You should spend some time with the camera and with an assortment of lenses. If I were buying this camera, I would go for a used 2/3" HD lens. (with the adapter for the camera). There is something about investing in a 1/2" HD lens that irks me. You will spend more but you will future proof your HD setup. You could also purchase a decent SD lens, and rent HD lenses as needed.

Hi Max,

I'm in Portland and expect to receive out F350 and Fujinon HSS18x55 1/2" HD lens tomorrow. We are purchasing via a dealer w/ an office in Redmond - contact me offlist if you need a name. This lens lists for close to $15K, and we elected to go w/ it as it was visibly better than the Canons and the other available Fujinon 1/2" lens. There are at least a couple of dealers in the Seattle area that can help you, as well as the NW rep for Fujinon.

Keith

When I bought my F330, I looked in my purse and counted my money.
What I came to was, if I was going to buy a Xdcam HD camera, then I should go for the cheapest lens, otherwise I was going to buy a cheaper camera.
The cheaper cameras also has a cheap lens, so where was that going to get me?
So I bought the package, camera with lens.

To my surprise, the picture quality was better, with this cheap lens, than I expected.
I have tried FX1 HD100 and H1, and non of them gave that picture quality!

Of cause if I have money like leaves on the trees, I will buy the best glass money can get, and maybe an F900 instead!!!!

Now I have my F330, I can shoot my productions in a, to me, splendid quality.. and I am happy..
Later when my income and my bank manager, says OK, then I will go for a better lens.

I don’t know with you guys, but to me, every purchase of equipment is a trade of between money and quality.
Not only do you have to buy the equipment but your business should also be able to pay for it.

My advice is.
Buy the best you can afford and don’t look back……….

Max,

Here is a list of HD lenses available for the XDCAM HD camcorders:

Canon KH10ex3.6 IRSE List Price $25,400.00
Canon KH21ex5.7 IRSE List Price $26,000.00
Canon KH20x6.4 KRS List Price $9,800.00
Canon KH19x6.7 KAS List Price $8,000.00
Fujinon HS16X4.6 BERM List Price $24,900.00
Fujinon XS13x3.3 BRM List Price $15,950.00
Fujinon XS17x5.5 BRM List Price $8,890.00
Fujinon HSs18x5.5BRM/BRD List Price $13,900.00

The lens that you choose depends on your application (i.e. ENG or Studio)

An end user just emailed me today pertaining to these lenses and wanted me to pass the information to anyone interested in the XDCAM HD:

"I have tried all four of the Fujinon lenses, and I own the 16X (which is a great, can-do-anything lens.) In 2/3" terms, it's about a 5.5 on the wide end, and at 16X with the extender, it gives me plenty of length. It retails for somewhere around $22K (welcome to the world of HD glass) but it is the Ferrari of 1/2" HD lenses. That 13X3.3 is a terrific wide lens too.
I also own an F900 with wide and normal HD zoom lenses (Fujinon) and I am equally impressed by their 1/2" lenses.
And be sure to pass the word that you do NOT want to use an SD piece of glass on and HD camera. Only 1/2 of the necessary light frequencies to SEE high definition images will ever make it to the HD imager. It won't work."

I have been finding out quite a bit of information from both Sony and Fujinon pertaining to the lenses and applications. Additionally, I have a PDF file from Fuji that lists their lenses and specifications. Please contact me at your convenience and I can email it to you.

Additionally, TapeWorks Texas Inc. will be hosting a Sony XDCAM HD product show in Houston TX. The date has not been finalized as the past couple of months have been extremely crazy and I'm trying to find a time that is beneficial to everyone interested in attending. If you think you can make it down to Houston, TX for the show, please contact me and I can see if we can acquire a date that fits in your schedule.

Best Regards,
Scott Cantrell
TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser
866-827-3489
scott@tapeworkstexas.com

Thanks for all the great posts - looks like it's gonna be an HD lens - now just which one?

Brian, what lens did you go with?

Max

I bought the camera with lens as a package.
the lens is VCL-719BXS KH19x6,7.
The package is called PDW F330K.
se my last reply in the "F330 test movie" tread.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69851

Max, from what Brian has said and posted about his 330 package he bought with the lens, it seems to me that in your situation, coming from the "prosumer" experience, that might be a good deal for you too. It would probably be the most economical way to get into the XDCAM HD world. And the nice thing about a professional camera is that you can always buy a better lens when the need and/or money appears. My understanding is that list price of around $16K includes the auto focus lens with the infinitely spinning focus ring.

Since you're already accustomed to shooting with that type of lens, it wouldn't be a big leap for you, and Brian has shown that the lens is quite useable. I always consider cost vs. benefit too. On the other side of the coin, if you're going into debt for a big chunk of money, you might as well go ahead and go a little deeper and get a better lens when you buy the package. But for me it all depends on how much money I can spend, or am willing to go into debt for, at the time I need to make a purchase.

Okay folks, I've taken your advice and I'm gonna get the HD lens. I'm gonna stick to the 1/2" even at the risk of nearby obsolescence (which judging by how quickly these cameras are moving won't really be a problem). Question now, is it the Fujinon or the Canon - either way, it is gonna have to be the bottom of line one.

Thanks again for everyone's help with this. I ordered at least the body today.

Max

The Canon VCL-719BXS is the cheaper lens that comes with the kit.

Max.
If you want to get the cheapest HD lens, you are going to change you order to the kit PDW F330K.
This kit includes the ½ inch Canon auto focus HD lens VCL-719BXS. KH19x6,7
If you order the lens as a separate item
you are going to pay at least 4-6000$ more for camera and lens…

The price difference between the body only PDW F330L and the kit PDW F330k is only around 4K. so you actually get a lens for 4K!!!!!!
If you look at Scott’s prices, you will se that the cheapest lens cost 8K for the KH19x6,7

I might be getting a XDcam 350. I am not sure about the lens. My budget is low, about 12,000 for the lens. What can I get in that range without CA and soft borders? Thanks guys.

Hi Carlos.

We're using a Fujinon HSs18x5.5BRM...awesome in some respects, but spendy.

Mark Falstad (who shot the brilliant Iditarod docko that Sony featured at NAB last March) told me he likes wide angle lenses for HD work, and that Canon lenses (to his mind) are somewhat better in their color rendition.



Michael.

I will buy a F300 shortly. It's on offer with or without the default k-lens.
What do you guys recon is the best buy? So far I did prefer Canon lenses (great quality and great service), if possible I would like to stick with that brand.

Is the standard lens up to it or should i immediately invest in a slightly better one?
My main recordings are...Over the shoulder interviews, small movies, company introduction and nature. So I do need quite a spectrum (wide-zoom)

Thnx for your advise.
Peter

Hi Peter.

There is quite a lot of excellent info in other threads about Canon lenses.

I'm not super familiar with how to search this forum yet, but give it a try.

For example, check this thread: Half inch HD lenses and quality issues

And this one: Fuji or Canon? - where Rob Stiff has some good things to say about one of the Canon lenses for your sort of work.


Michael Knight

If I might suggest, glass is where it all happens. We selected Fuji glass for our feature pilot El Papel but it all depends on your use of the camera. We find the ENG lens to be a very good lens for that type of shooting. Tight with superior contrast and little breathing, we used it all the time when we wanted a video ook to content we are using on the serties. On the other hand, don't forget you can use 2/3" primes with it as well via a $700 adapter whihc open a while set of new doors to you. There's very little compromise other than remembering to multiply the mm size by 1.37. The 2/3" glass is incredibly reliable and fills in the gaps in the 1/2" line up. We used a 5, 8, 12, 20 and 40 prime lens set along with a George Lucas 10X100 zoom and a 15X CineZoom and there wasn't a shot we couldnt get. So, my humble suggestion is to look at the 330 or the 350, both good cameras although I like the 350 better, and then buy a lens you'll use most given the style of shooting you do and rent the best glass you can to fill in the blanks. Perhaps the best investment you can make is in the 1/2" to 2/3" adapter ring. i promise, new doors will open to you.

Peter - just in case you haven't seen my posts elsewhere, it is vital to have the sturdiest possible tripod/head set-up for your XD CAm.

As for lenses - we opted for the Fujinon HSs18x5.5BRM which we use with a Varizoom controller when on the tripod.

Our work is similar to what you mention - documentaries, some shoulder work, and nature.

The HSs series of lenses is Fujinon's best quality glass.

However, we did have some focus issues at certain f-stops/focal lengths, and the lens is currently back with Fujinon for testing (though to be fair, there's a chance that the back focus was inadvertently set incorrectly prior to delivery and this wasn't 'caught' in our pre-flight tests with the [too small] chart supplied with the lens manual).

It's also possible that ours was one of the "pre-production" lenses - one of the first to ship - and Fujinon has since been replacing those ones. We'll know for sure in a day or so.

Having said all that - the lens really is superb, and given that Tv channels in the States are all moving to HD it seems, at least to us, to have been the only logical way to go...specially since we were starting from scratch and could fully utilise the disc-capture media with which we can ingest directly to our Mac and edit in Final Cut Pro - all in-house, no additional decks required.

All the best.

Michael Knight

just dont buy the 330k with the auto focus canon lens!

I am sure I already know the answer to this, but when you look at the focal length of lenses 2/3 and 1/2" the 1/2" always are lower, which I would normally equate to being wider. e.g. a fujinon 2/3" is 20x8.6 whereas it's 1/2" version is 20x6.4. In practice do they have the same wide angle of view when mounted on the respective 2/3" and 1/2" cameras?

If you mounted the 20x8.6 on the 1/2" camera would you then get 31.2x13.41? or something like that?

It would still be a 20x8.4, but the Field of view on a half inch camera would be narrower than on a 2/3 inch camera (the lens would be less wide on 1/2"). If you put a lens with a focal length of 10mm at 2/3" lens on a 1/2" camera you get a 2/3" equivalent of a focal length of 13.4mm (1.34x). The lens is still a 10mm lens though.

There are some handy focal length calculators here:

http://www.usa.canon.com/industrial_bctv/ERC/

so

side by side,

one dsr 450 with the 2/3" 20 x 8.4
one f350 with the 2/3" 20 x 8.4 using the adaptor. same shot, full wide

is the shot wider on the dsr?

Yes the DSR shot will be wider, 1.34x wider.

Yes it is.

so in essence the lens will then be the equivelent of 13.44mm then

No, it would be 11.3mm.
8.4 X 1.34 = 11.26

sorry...but you get the point!

yes, that's why I don't think that 2/3" lenses, via an adapter, work that well to cover the wide focal lengths that you may need on a 1/2" chip camera. It's hard to get 4mm to 5mm equivalent angle of view from a 2/3" lens.

yes, that's why I don't think that 2/3" lenses, via an adapter, work that well to cover the wide focal lengths that you may need on a 1/2" chip camera. It's hard to get 4mm to 5mm equivalent angle of view from a 2/3" lens.

Exactly, while I was waiting for the Fuji 1/2 HS18X5.5BERM with 2X extender to be released Fuji lent me a 2/3 18X5.5 and my Sony dealer provided the adaptor. It was OK on the long end but shooting wide I found my self constantly backing up trying to get wide enough. I found it very frustrating to work with and would recommend trying it first if your thinking of going that way.

cheers

Morton