I am just a newbie here, but as I had the chance to make a direct comparison between a A1 and a Sony FX-7, I thought I should post some of my unscientific observations. After all, the question "which is one is better in low light?" is asked regularly.

First disclaimer: I am in PAL land, so those were PAL models.

Second disclaimer: this is an unscientific test.

The test was very simple: I tried both cameras in a very low light setting and examined the noise on a monitor. The light was turned down until the cameras were reaching maximum gain (18 dB, the A1 can turn the gain even higher, but will not do this automatically) and the picture was examined. This is an important test for what I will be using this camera for (filming live jazz gigs).

A few things are striking:

-first: the noise is different, you get more gritting luminance noise on the Canon and some blotchy chrominance noise on the Sony. At first sight, the Sony noise looks less obvious, but this is a question of taste.

-second: Sony automatically switches some kind of noise resolution on, while Canon does not. The picture from the FX-7 gets a bit less sharp when gain is increased.

-last but not least: the FX-7 is noticeably less sensitive than the A1. From 20 years of photography practice, I would say about a full stop less sensitive: the image is underexposed while the Canon still shows detail, you lose details in the shadows long before the Canon, etc. No surprise here: the chip is smaller.


That is about the extend of the observations. Now if someone can do a more scientific test, measure the actual sensitivity of the cameras and post pictures, I would be delighted, but characterizing the two cameras is more difficult than it seems. One can't compare one to the other without also comparing the noise, which is very different. The Sony is also obviously designed as consumer model, with higher contrast, higher sharpening, automatic noise reduction and the loss in dynamic which results of that choice. Sony's noise reduction appears to be very clever: the loss in resolution is minimal. The A1 can be tweaked to do lots of things, but apparently needs to be tweaked. Still: I chose the A1, because of the higher base sensitivity, which is important for me.

But the Sony is also a nice camera: smaller (the Canon is about the size of the FX-1) and lighter. I also liked the way the Sony always displayed the aperture, speed and gain at the bottom of the screen (they are also easier to set up) and the bigger external screen.

How do you like the other handling options of the fx7 compared to the A1? Images tweakability and external manual control buttons and such? And maybe your opinion of colour difference between the two.

How do you like the other handling options of the fx7 compared to the A1? Images tweakability and external manual control buttons and such? And maybe your opinion of colour difference between the two.


That is difficult to answer. I am used to a Sony camera, so I could find my way on the Sony easily. OTOH, the Canon has lots of buttons which to me look as if they are spread around the case without any system... your mileage may vary.

As to tweakability and color, the Sony has more "punch" out of the box and the Canon produces images which are easier to improve in post. But there is one major difference: the Canon has custom controls to tweak the picture and give about any kind of color look you like, while you need to choose the VX1 (the "pro" version of the FX7) to get the same amount of control.

The first sequence http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=81457
is a clip used for a discussion about presets here
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=81457

the beginning is the comparison between adapted presets. It transitions into the preset I like. Of which I am looking for opinions on as far as colors go.

The second is my very first sequence ever, http://www.jaystebbins.com/movies/thefirstclips.mov shot with the Panalook preset...

Please right click and download....

Thanks,
Jay

Jay

I would like the color boost somewhere between the two settings personally. Seems that is what it might have actually looked like. What is the "squiggily" thing going on as you pan across the hull of the boat from right to left. Is that a common byproduct of video or MPG artifact?

Beautiful shots by the way.

Thanks,

I think the jiggly thing, might be the image stabilizer, as I forgot to turn it off. I found a couple of references last night mentioning that the OIS would cause a disruption during slow pans on a tripod. I agree with you on the boost as well. Last night I tweaked the settings, and added the HDF setting as well. I am headed down to the same spot today as the light is the same today as yesterday.

Thanks again,
Jay

"Ice and Water"
Pictures from Finnish national park (2006/12/19).
http://rapidshare.com/files/8167401/Haukkajoki.mov

Original HDV PAL 50i > De-interlaced H.264 / 640x360, 98Mb. Manual settings, outdoor white balance, -3dB gain. Customize settings: CAM N * KNE L * BLK P * PED -1 * SET/SHP 0 * HDF M * DHV/COR/NR1/NR2 0 * CMX 1 * CGN 20 / CPH/RGN 0 * GGN 3 / all rest at zero.
Hoya UV-filter was used in all shots. First two shots are color corrected.

EDIT:
Two raw clips:
http://rapidshare.com/files/8266676/HelvjHDV50i.mov
(Quicktime native HDV file)
http://rapidshare.com/files/8238784/HelvjHDV720p.mov
(downconverted with FCP, QT)

Nice video quality. I was just filming ice 2 weekends ago in North Georgia, USA. Images looked really good considering compression. I was particulary looking for any pulsing of the stationary rocks with fast moving water in the scene that was described in another thread but didn't see any. Nice golden natural lighting.

Regards,

Thanks for sharing Poppe! It is real winter over there, but for Finland it is mild I think? No sign of problems in the moving waterstream and black rocks, its fluid.

Nice video quality. I was just filming ice 2 weekends ago in North Georgia, USA. Images looked really good considering compression. I was particulary looking for any pulsing of the stationary rocks with fast moving water in the scene that was described in another thread but didn't see any. Nice golden natural lighting. Regards,

Yes, the mpeg compression really has improved since early days. A1 seems to be a good camcorder for shooting nature. Of course there are still some softness in wide shots, but for the money this is just great cam!

Thanks for sharing Poppe! It is real winter over there, but for Finland it is mild I think? No sign of problems in the moving waterstream and black rocks, its fluid.

This Dec there has been only few cold days in southern Finland. I just took (and shoot) advantage of these couple of freezing days, but now it seems that we won't have white Christmas, temperature has risen again.

It's amazing stuff. I really like the footage. I can't wait until I get this camera. I'm hoping to get it soon. Those close ups are nothing short of amazing, particularly at this price point.

-Nate

Ok, so the link is below... But I have to subtitle it a little before everyone is like "Why the freak did you do that...?"

I had the camera for about 24 hours or so and it was really my first thing I tried to shoot on the new cam... So middle of the night + new camera + tons of settings + A Noob = Not the best possible product

Some of the shots I slowed down and shouldn't have... Oh yeah and its SUPER COMPRESSED MP4... So that being said... I think really this probably the worst case scenario for this camera in terms of quality...

Oh yeah, and I only did about 13 minutes worth of total filming and edited it in about 3 - 4 hours...

http://www.gowildolive.com/camera/Downtown%20Bham.mp4

Looks pretty good for only having the camera for one day. Now I know my way around Birmingham. Someone should call the fire department, there's a flaming pole in the city.

I don't know, putting the flame out of what is apparently an eternal flaming pole may not be a good idea. Might release havoc on the city. I love the footage. What's great about this footage is when you think of Southern cities you really don't seem them as the big cities they are. These aren't small towns. They have skyscrapers and thriving metropolis setting. I'm loving the songs you guys are picking. (Most of these I've never heard). Thanks for letting the song play out.

-Nate

Looks pretty good for only having the camera for one day. Now I know my way around Birmingham. Someone should call the fire department, there's a flaming pole in the city.

I found an old 10+ macro I had laying around and decided to have some fun with my precious A1. Here's the footage:
http://rapidshare.com/files/11041958...cro10.wmv.html

rapd share says that no file is there using your URL...
I really hate rapid share anyway...

Time to shave! :)
Pretty nice for a cheap macro. The yellow CA it gives is actually quite nice in this context...

I think this should be the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/11041958/Xh_A1_Asian_Macro10.wmv.html

Cheers,

Steven

got it.. nice

an old macro.. but that fixed to the ring screwing it?

Tried to use all the CP on the camera and the ones posted here on a end of a sunny day.
here: http://www.stefanofolgaria.it/test/CP_TEST_ALL.mov

Thank you, that was interesting.

May I suggest that next time you do this, just cut from the same shot (like the wide shot) one Custom Preset after another, don't have the # scroll across the screen but just in one place, then we can scroll through the footage getting a direct comparison between each setting, seeing the same shot, then do all the closeups together the same way. Just makes it easier to really compare.

Appreciate your taking time to demo this. I still like 17 & 18 the most in your test.

Put another way to see the test, 8 camera presets in a single window, but for better viewing some HD files here in different sizes (ASAP): http://www.stefanofolgaria.it/test/allHD_1080p.mov
http://www.stefanofolgaria.it/test/allHD_720p.mov
http://www.stefanofolgaria.it/test/allHD_480p.mov

and ASAP also the 18 card presets here:
http://www.stefanofolgaria.it/test/allcardHD_720p.mov

Hey everyone. I just recently shot an short in Arabic, but it's subbed so no worries. It's around 6:30mins long.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSLPm_v9aSE

I have a feeling that I'm not getting the best picture. I'm not sure if you can tell since this is youtube quality, but I do feel that something is off. I'm really hoping for some tips.

Oh, the movie is called The Last Bahraini. Bahrain is a small island in the Middle East and the movie is about a thief who attempts to steal a watch from an "inferior" Indian taxi driver. You see, locals in the Arabian Gulf some locals see themselves as superior to people from the subcontinent.

Err... Yeah, I just wanted to explain that to make the movie more understandable to the non-Arabs in the forums, which is pretty much almost everyone here. =)

Enjoy.

Looks like it was a little dark though, maybe utube problems

Great Job
Doug

Music was good too

Nice!!!

I liked it. The story always has and always be the sine qua non. The technology you use to tell it is merely a conduit.

For You Tube it looked great. You are well on your way man. Putting it down is the biggest step. Tweaking your image to your liking just gives you finer control over your message.

Yeah, I definately agree that story is key. Yet, I'm still trying to get the best out of my camera. I recently downloaded some New York at night footage from on here and I was amazed at what the A1 can do. It's probably just New York being photogenic though, but I just want to make sure.

Noob question: By the way, I edit on Premiere Pro 2.0. If I plainly just export as an AVI file, will it technically be HD?

It goes way way way beyond racism. There is also tribalism, clanism, and issues of fatherhood even within families.

The Arab world and the Gulf States in particular are as diverse as anyplace on earth.

Yup, got that right.

Looks like it was a little dark though,

I think that's because I've been screwing around with the presets a bit too much. =p

Some more frames. All of them have bin color corrected.

Nice! With what did you process them? Photoshop?

regards

Yes, Photoshop.

Oh, are you here too...

Nice pics Rumi
You mentioned that the colors were a bit flat, haven't any of the presets solved that issue?

Joni

Hi Joni, here tooooo. hee heee.

Well you can adjust the colors a lot. I just like how the HVX produces rich greens.

Best to you friend.

Of course, the clip doesn't show the full potential of DOF manipulation (just a casual shot; no ND engaged/shutther speed increased in order to open up aperture, etc.) - but clearly better than what I could get with my previous cameras, especially the V1!

BTW. Is it normal that - with AWB on - the white window frame gets pinkish from the red flower? When I removed the flower, the AWB reset itself back so that the frame was perfectly white again!

The V1 has a greater telephoto (35 mm equivalent) than the Canon A1, but of course that Sony lens feeds smaller chips. The V1 is f/2.8 at full telephoto, whereas the Canon is nearly a stop slower, so on balance I'd say the two cameras were neck and neck in the shallow dof stakes.

tom.

Tom, you're right of course - but in practical terms, shooting from a distance long enough to engage the telephoto side of the lens can be the most difficult of all measures, shallowing dof.

Hi everyone!
I'm new here. I just bought my Canon XHA1 a couple of days ago and I thought that maybe someone would be interested in see how the B&W preset from the Library looks like. The clip is not great but I hope it helps. Sorry but it goes out of focus once or twice.

Low Light Conditions
1080 - 25 F
B&WJECTA Filter

http://rapidshare.com/files/15179525/eco1Mbps_Stream.mov

It is my cat!

Cheers
Joan

looks nice, the compression looks pretty good too.

For compression I use Sorenson Squeeze 4

It was shoot while A1 arrived for 3 days
Setting : 60i , Color gain +5, Master Ped. -3, Knee Low, NR off
the gain was limited to 6db at night scene


http://jeffreyliou.myweb.hinet.net/2007TaiwanSunset.wmv

You have some nice footage there. The neon lights against the sky at dusk is really beautiful.

nice colors, but the format is wrong.
you exported in a NTSC format 720x480 without anamorphic options, so the image is distorted.
ciao!

I'm still learning the ropes with my new A1, but here's a 90sec. clip of highlights from my son's basketball game. I shot 30f at 0db gain, with Preset #2 (AC PREF1) on the Download Library. Manual focus and iris.

1280x720p WMV, 36MB http://www.brownland.org/video/caden_upward.wmv

I shot it with the Tiffen Steady Stick stabilizer. Edited with Premiere Pro 2.0, music by SmartSounds.

Enjoy,
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions
http://www.brownland.org/blog/

Great stuff !

It's so nice to see those small guys play. Compared to those 2 meter giants in the real competition world these kids are doing great though.

Just wait until they can make the jump and hang on the ring.
Funny to see them in slow motion too.

I have two girls. One is six years old and our youngest is almost three years.
Her third birthday is on March 11th.

In eight hours I hope to have my own brand new Canon XH-A1 and make the same stuff. Girls stuff, I guess.

Keep up the good work!

Oh, one question. Did you need an extra codec to make the WMV in Premiere ?

Thanks for the kudos, Gert. And have fun with YOUR new A1. It's a freakishly cool camera.

As for Premiere, you can encode to WMV right from the timeline via Adobe Media Encoder. The settings are fairly basic, however. If you need more options, you can download Microsoft's Windows Media Encoder for free and feed it a minimally-compressed file (I like the HuffyUV for intermediates until I break down and buy Cineform).

I haven't tried QT yet (it's a bit overwhelming with its options), but have seen some very nice encodes with that codec... and the Mac folks like 'em better.

There's also the DIVX encoder that I've been playing with today. I'm going to try to upload vids to their Stage6 site. But the site is still in beta, so it's a little quirky... at least it was for me today.

Let me know if you need some advice shooting sports with the A1. Most of it is "on the job training", but I've learned a few things so far that might be helpful. Focusing is by far the trickiest thing for me.

Take care,
Brian

Thanks for viewing and comments

Please take another look for Taiwan traditional old house footage.

Ive done my rough cut, still some tweeks to make. Two cam set up. Was a tiny space. A cam was full wide couldnt fit everything, b cam had 30 cms of space to work in (well not really but almost).

Was a CD launch, just official types present.

http://www.scarlet-films.com/INVAGO_Takemeforaride.mov

Is that a multirig for camera b? I found that using a camera on such rigs for live concerts is not very convenient, because you can't adjust much since you must keep both hands on the rig.

As to camera a, maybe the operator could have zoomed in from time to time for some close-ups. Of course, this needs that both operators know each other very well and decide what they will film beforehand, but it allows a more lively cut.

(Just my 2 cents...)

Nice stuff...I liked the band. Did you take an audio feed from the mixer?

Nice stuff...I liked the band. Did you take an audio feed from the mixer?

Hi Stephen. Glad you liked it. Sound was recorded on an 8 track mixer plus an additional ambient track from A cam using a premixer. When you hear the applause at the end, thats almost entirely inaudible on from the 8 track recording.

Is that a multirig for camera b? I found that using a camera on such rigs for live concerts is not very convenient, because you can't adjust much since you must keep both hands on the rig.

As to camera a, maybe the operator could have zoomed in from time to time for some close-ups. Of course, this needs that both operators know each other very well and decide what they will film beforehand, but it allows a more lively cut.

(Just my 2 cents...)

Yeah jerome I dont entirely disagree with your opinion. But have found in my two cam shoots, you often get caught mid zoom on one cam and then are stuck with a half zoom in edit. This coming from a person who doesnt like straight on zooms (in or out) from a static cam. Youll notice I dont have any problem with the handheld pulling out or in on pans. But I find this a more pro look, as it takes a lot of practice to master doing it for the right composition and knowing what you will end up doing in edit. And happier clients.

I recently directed a four cam shoot. We had right and left rear tripod mounted cams, with the explicit order if one is in zoom the other isnt to be (they could both be zoomed in - but not actually going through zoom at the same time. One cam was handheld similar to this set up other was on a dolly in front of the stage.

Problem with venues in Tokyo, unless your doing 10,000 people is they are all dinky little places with no room to move and needless to say all big gigs are taken up by the big Japanese production companies. Im doing a lot of the smaller foreign stuff, because they dont like the two static cam shoots they usually get when they hire the smaller Japanese production companies.

OK, I`ll shine some light on my first duty assignment with A1 for a subsidiary company of ours.
It was back in December 2006. I`ve had my hands on my A1 for only three hours, for just as much time as it takes to read and almost understand the manual.

1 minute corporate clip in SD, not yet CCd (www.autonomicum.com/video/VB_Corporate_Clip_2007.mpg) (sorry for the softening compression)

This isn`t a creative clip by any means but shows the lowest end of the A1 capabilities when used as a tool in corporate environment. It was mostly filmed with out of the box settings and with available office lights, AGC off and gain at "0". In about half the shots I used a polarizer to get rid of screen glares etc.

Cheers,
T

Thanks for posting this "worst-case scenario" footage. I appreciate seeing how this camera holds up (or doesn't, I'm still downloading) in the ugliest of conditions.