Hello all. Since no one took up my offer to buy a light shaping diffuser from Edmund I ventured out and thought I would see how I could obtain one without paying any money. So thanks man. But in all, that was a great thing. I spent a lot of time asking for samples and never was I able to get a hold of one because they still charged money. Bastards. That's okay to. I then googled up Holographic Diffusers. And that changed it all. There was an article about a company who makes these and just so happens they went into great detail just exactly what Holographic Diffusers are for. Just so happens they are in every lcd screen there is. Nice. 40% of the market used for Holographic Diffusers are in cell phones. I have like 30 cell phones that break every other month and thought what the eff. I took one apart and low and behold there it was $150.00 Holographic Diffuser. Now I have no idea what angle this is, but I did some bokeh tests and they turned out great. The light loss is incredible. I will have screen caps of this later with more available shots. Yes the grain is awful, and only to be used for a vibrating-spinning adapter. I've gone one here, just waiting for the motors. Here is what I had to do with my phone and then the diffuser. This picture if from the front lcd. I had the bigger one in my adapter already. Hope you guys enjoy. If you have any questions, I'm sure I can help.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Phone.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Diffuser.jpg

Rich,

Im very interested to see where this goes, I love new experiments with ideas.

The second image does not work...

Yeah I've done this before.

I pulled em out of cell phone, old LCD screens, etc.

I also got 5 sheets for free from GE Engineering division. Only thing is I never got a round to actually building the 35mm adapter =P

They seem to work fairly well...

Image 2 is same link as the first, just change the .jpg name from Phone to Diffuser

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Diffuser.jpg

Is it a replacement for a ground glass? What's the advantages?
Any drawbacks?

thanks

Here are some grabs from the screen. The light loss isn't what I thought it would be. There's definitely light loss. But on the good side, the bokeh is quite impressive. You can see for yourself.



http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/NoAdapter.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Adapter2.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Bokeh3.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Bokeh2.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Bokeh.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Bokeh4-1.jpg



Can't wait until it's vibrating.

-Rh

From the looks of things, the light loss is a good trade off for the good bokeh, and the lack of vignetting or hot spot. Once you get that thing vibrating we'll see what this thing can really do.

New Grabs today. Outside was overcast. The setting in the camera made it really dark. So blacks are too black and whites are too white. The grabs still look pretty good.

Canon 50mm 1.8
Z75 MF 15
NO CC

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car8.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car7.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car6.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car5.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car4A.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car4.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car3A.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car3.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car2A.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Car2.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Koty-1.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/AirCon.jpg

I think it has a nice filmic look to it, lots of crushed black, it might be a good look if you want a certain look...

Do you think we can see some actual video? I'm interested in how that static grain looks.

Those stills look very good. There doesn't seem to be any big problems with it except for the grain which should go way when you get it vibrating. What is your design for the vibrating diffuser like?

Hi Chris,

see my homepage for the vibrating design. Besides the tutorials I have some vibrating gg-assemblies that works with any diffusor. They are also custom made for each tube diameter.

Daniel

Consumed in the curiosity that this thread has sparked in me, I took a holographic diffuser out of my old canon elura 40 (been broken beyond repair for years, I figured I should finally lay it to rest), and stuck it into a system which I ghetto rigged today.

3 Closeup Filters -> UV Filter -> Diffuser -> UV Filter All encased in some teflon tape to force fit it into the PVC pipe. I used the rear lens cap trick on a piece of threaded PVC which screws right into the end of the thing to mount the lens.

http://www.fmpfilms.com/35/PVC1.JPG
http://www.fmpfilms.com/35/PVC2.JPG

Tomorrow should be a nice day, maybe I'll bring it outside and see what it can do. From the look of things it's pretty good. the light loss isn't as bad as some other things that i've tried. the grain is pretty bad but I'll probably upgrade to a vibrating unit.

Edit: I added the less compressed of the 2nd video. It's 40something mb's. It's the 3rd link.

Here is video 1 of 2. The other is uploading now. The first one is around 22mb's and the second one around 31. I'll be honest, so no one is fooled. I'll have to re-up the second clip because the compression, even though it's full, took out most of the grain. You can still see it, but it's not like it should be. I'll re-up but it'll be more around 40mb's or more. That's a while to upload, so it will definitely be tomorrow. You can still check it out. As you can kind of tell it was raining outside. The sun is gone and it's overcast. So the light loss isn't that bad to be honest. I don't have a polarizer and I used 1/18th ND filter. Also had to adjust the iris. The bokeh is crazy good. Just look at the first clip behind the dog. You can see how round it is in the back. The vibrating unit will most likely eleminate all the grain. We'll have to see once I get the motors wich should be later this week. Same settings as the stills because this is the video from it.

And...incase you're wondering, I posted a picture of the phone where I got this paticular screen from. I do believe it's from a Samsung LG camera phone. I just walked in a local verizon shop and asked if they had any broken phones lying around and handed me a couple. Hope that helps some.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/120306_0149a.jpg

What is your design for the vibrating diffuser like?
A) It's from Daniel's webiste.

Canon 50mm 1.8
Z75 MF15
No CC

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room37/1045520/Poc1.divx
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room37/1045520/Poc2.divx
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room37/1045520/Poc2%281%29.divx

:) You mean those vertical lenticular lens systems they have in them, or the back diffuser lens system, or circular filter? I don't know too much about their use, but I think I know the ones that you mean.

They are specially designed to take light from the back/side/front light and shoot it out the front to the user. But the angle on the best system has a wide spread (so a condenser is still practical) on the older systems has small angles, usually more on the horizontal than vertical (effects out of focus details).

With the vertical lenticular ones you maybe able to put two together at right angles to get better light. Higher res per inch displays should hopefully have finer diffusers.

Wayne, I'm just not too sure what you're talking about because it sounds very tech savvy. But...I do have two of the same exact phones and two of the same exact Sreens. I'll try putting them together and see what I get. It could diffuse more light, but maybe more grain. And what if say you have two 15degree screens, would that make it 30? Could take the bokeh and put it into another direction. I'll check and see what kind of results I get and post up pics.

Wayne M, I tried the double screen to see if I'd get better lighting. I don't think I placed them in wrong angles because the screens were exactly the same and lined up. They have tabs on the side so I knew they were lined up perfectly. The results were more light loss. Here are some grabs.

1screen:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/1Screen.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/1ScreenA.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/1ScreenB.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/1ScreenC.gif

2screen:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/2Screen.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/2ScreenA.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/2ScreenB.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/2ScreenC.gif

I'm actually surprised to see that the light loss isn't that much with the one screen material(to me). That was under a ceiling fan light at or around 60watts. The fan in the picture is about 6fee from me and the table a good 7 or 8.

-Rh

Today I did a test in my horribly lit Living Room with the setup I posted earlier.

As the living room is horribly lit, keep in mind that I had to turn the gain on the camera up to like 12db (not acceptable by any means). I was also shooting full open which is a bad idea too, it probably explains the lack of sharpness. I need to play around some more.

http://www.fmpfilms.com//35/PVCTEST.mov

Camera:
Sony PD170
Shutter: 1/30
F1.6
12dB Gain

Lens-
Niko Series E 50mm
F1.8

Here is another test. Outdoors. I'm really impressed with it actually.

http://www.fmpfilms.com/35/pvctest2.mov

I shot with the nikon at F2.8 and my Pd170 on full auto (At least, I'm pretty sure it was full auto)

The compression does get rid of some of the grain, but you can still see the prevailing black specks. My screen is obviously dirty snd scratched. Since it is wedged between a UV filter and my 3rd closeup filter, You're probably seeing whatever dust is on the closeup filter too. So I need to create more distance between the focal pane and my macros.

Wayne M, I tried the double screen to see if I'd get better lighting. I don't think I placed them in wrong angles because the screens were exactly the same and lined up.

Being a bit more awake now, it depends on what sort of screen it is. Some of these devices contain a number of different screen components put together. The ones I mention are basically a series of vertical lenticular lens. You are not going to get the same advantage with most of the other sorts. They would not only need to be stuck together rotated at right angles, but I think with the same surfaces facing the same direction the best. But it doesn't matter keep experimenting, see what you come up with. Go to the 3M sites and like up all the LCD display related filter diagrams.

Got my vibrating unit hooked up now and here are the first grabs. I'll go out tomorrow morning and shoot some stuff in the day w/ and w/o vibration on so you can see the difference.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/OutsideBokeh.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Window_NB.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Window_B.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/KotyOOF.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/KotyVBO.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Stove2.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/Stove.jpg


Canon 50mm 1.8
No CC
Z75 MF 15

You probably won't like. But I put it up anyway. You've got 7days to d/l then it's gone. If you want to host it feel free.

http://filelodge.bolt.com/anonget.php?key=ab188efb73963f468ed602be0c98f549

You can definately still see the grain when it's vibrating. But I think that it gives it a very filmlike feel to the footage. Others may be more into the completely grainless thing, But I really like the effect.

Here's the dog footage. Quite a big file 161mb's.

http://filelodge.bolt.com/anonget.php?key=02612ef569ceb84dfc21a24412f6275c
-Rh

Is it just me or is anyone else having trouble downloading those two .movs from filelodge.bolt.com?



edit:
Nevermind... it worked in a different browser.

The bokeh is pretty soft, at 0:48 into the Dogs2.mov there is a lens flare and you have the clearest, isolated bokeh example. There's also some weirdness going on at edges... at 1:00 into Work2.mov the edge of the white labels on the wine bottles have a green outline when they go out of focus. Must have something to do with how those particular holographic diffusers work. Also, on these two clips - were you only using one diffuser (not two at a time)?

Still, I think it's decent for uncontrolled lighting. An ND filter or polarizer would probably come in handy in the outdoor shots. Now I'm curious how it'd look with an HD cam.

whoa, you really analyzed the hell out of these videos'. laugh. Just one diffuser. Two are really really dark and produces more grain.

Sam, do you have an HD cam? I live in Florida.

Check your email.

Sam, didn' get anything. I don't know emails are working thruogh here or not.

You can send it here.

F1lm3r@gmail.com

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room37/1045520/Work4.mov

New footage. More from work footage. This one won't be deleted. It'll stay after 7days. It's only 37mb's. Added music.

In the clips you can notice grain. So I thought this screen was too grainy, and it still might be, but with what i've learned it might not. I have a WAX gg that was made for me and it's already a decent static adapter with very little grain. I wanted to compare the two. Even with the WAX gg there was the same amount of grain. Now, I've also investigated, that if you have too much voltage going to your motor that it can result to improper vibratation. I never got a chance to get a a Rheostat, which lowers the voltage from the battery to the motor, and I'm thinking this could be what eliminates the grain completely. I hope so anway. I'll post the clips as soon as a I get a rheostat.

-Rh

Now, does a rheostat lower voltage output at a constant rate, like let's say it alays lowers your voltage by 5 volts or something, or does it always bring it down to the same level. Will always bring your voltage down to 5 volts whether you're putting in 10 or 15? Or does it work in a completely different way and my lack of knowlege in electronics is preventing me from grasping this whole thing?

In other news, after seeing your footage, I ordered one of Daniel's vibrating holders, It should come in a couple days. In the meantime I'll be doing tests with some different light shaping screens.

A rheostat is like a fan speed. You turn it up or you turn it down, but instead of speed, it's volts. I need to take the 1.5v from the AAA battery and bring it down to .08v or 1.2v. To slow the speed on the motor. Daniel was saying if it's too much it can break the leaf springs. So, over the weekend I'll be getting a rheostat. Hopefully.

Got my rheostat this morning. Will probably have something available tomorow morning or later tonight. We'll see.

-Rh