Does anyone know if the magnet trick to flip the lcd image works on the A1? Or even better, does it have a on-camera "image flipper"?

Oh you don't need a magnet, just detach the lcd with a hammer and chisel and then turn it upside down. Besides, the canon service helpline is very understanding if anything should end up not going according to brilliantawesome plan.
Seriously though, I assume this is for a 35mm adaptor? I'd say pay extra for the letus flip and peace of mind.

There is no built-in image flip feature in the Canon XH series camcorders.

While a magnet might distort the image on a CRT based viewfinder (FU1000) I doubt that one could get a perfect flip. In any event there is no electron beam to deflect in a LCD based viewfinder and hence no distortion of the image should occur if a magnet is placed close to one.

This is very bad news :-( I was used to the FX1's huge lcd that could easily be flipped with a magnet. I just spent a lot of money on new equipment. An external monitor is totally out of the question.

It's the same kind of screen the Sony has, only a little smaller. I don't see why the magnet wouldn't work on it too.

There is no built-in image flip feature in the Canon XH series camcorders.

Does that mean it doesn't flip when you face the LCD forwards, or are you just talking about no software feature for turning the image upside down...?

I'm talking about no internal software feature for turning the image upside down. It *does* flip when you face the LCD forwards, just like those on all other camcorders do.

Rafael, since you brought up FX1, where do you put the magnet on it to get the flip ??

On the FX1 you don't put the magnet directly on the lcd. You put it on upper left side of the control menu that is displayed when you open the lcd. You know, the menu where you check the batt status, control the lcd and stuff. I did it many many time and it works beautifully.

On a different not, I made many many tests with magnets and tapes and you would need a huge powerful magnet to damage a tape. Actually, the very reason why the magnet trick works is because some cameras have a magnet near the lcd, hence when another magnet is put near the on-camera one, the polarities are inverted and so is the image. Of course, if when the A1's lcd is turned upside down the image is flipped by a electronically system, then the magnet trick won't work...but if it's mechanical it's more than likely that they are using a magnet and then it would be just a matter of finding the hot spot.

Thanks. I will give it a try.

You'll give it a try with the FX1 or the A1. If you're going to give it a try with the FX1 then it's a given. It HAS to work. If you're going to give it a try with the A1 be sure to let me know. I wouldn't like to spend more money on an external monitor when a 1$ magnet would work.

While a magnet might distort the image on a CRT based viewfinder (FU1000) I doubt that one could get a perfect flip. In any event there is no electron beam to deflect in a LCD based viewfinder and hence no distortion of the image should occur if a magnet is placed close to one.

The magnet doesn't distort the image, it fools the level sensor in to thinking that the LCD is facing forward, thus enabling the built-in flip to let you see the image right-side up when you are looking at it from the front of the camera instead of the back.

As for having it as a built in feature... I'm sure the number of people who use adaptors is so low compared to their full audience that it's not worth the risk of having a consumer accidentilly flip that menu switch and be stuck with an upside-down image.

OK - I get it. There is a little weight in there which signals to the microprocessor that the display has been turned upside down (facing forward). The trick with a magnet will therefore work if the weight is made of magnetic material and not otherwize. There are other ways to implement this signalling of course. For example a cam and microswitch at the rotary joint. If it's done that way a magnet isn't going to help.

I tried magnet trick on my XH-A1 a few days ago and it did not work.
I guess Canon does not use the same technique as Sony. It's probably done with microswitch or rotary contact, as A. J. mentioned.

So, I give up this idea and will not be trying stronger magnets. It's not a big deal anyway, though it would be very sweet to have LCD/EVF flip in the camera. Anyone serious about 35mm adapter uses external monitor anyway, even with Letus Flip or Mini35. No camera in this range offers full image flip funtion and it sort of makes me feel better.

Maybe I'm just being too simple-minded here and there's something wrong with this thought process, but wouldn't you just be able to hold the camcorder upside down to test if it was a mechanical level sensor versus a switch? If it doesn't flip, then you know a magnet wouldn't work.

The sensor will likely 90% be a small mercury switch and thats why a magnet works on this sort of switch.

Mercury switches are commonly used to detect orientation changes in camera and camcorder LCD's. Mercury is a metal that is liquid at room temperature, and responds to magnetic fields.

Maybe I'm just being too simple-minded here
Remember Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is often the best one. This is an example.

Stu: Mercury is diamagnetic which means that it attempts to retreat from a magnetic field rather than be attracted to it but the effect is much too feeble to allow it to be used in a magnetically controlled switch. Relays with mercury wetted contacts are, or used to be, made but the parts moved by the magnetic field were ferromagnetic. Mercury switches were frequently used to sense level but it was gravity moving the mercury relative to the contacts that operated them. A magnet would not have any measureable effect on such a switch. Today environmental and health concerns make it very unlikely that these cameras would contain any mercury for any reason and if they did there would be special instructions for disposal of them in the manual

[QUOTE...
Today environmental and health concerns make it very unlikely that these cameras would contain any mercury for any reason
...[/QUOTE]

I agree with you A.J. It couldn't even be sold in EU for that reason, let alone sensitivity to shock and camera position. Still, it's possible LCD flip is controlled by reed microswitch and small magnet. Reed switches are designed for that and widely used i.e. in alarm systems. Maybe someone will be successful trying stronger magnets, but my guess is LCD in XH-A1/G1 uses simple contact microswitch. The way the flip works in XH-A1 seems to confirm it.

Did anyone find a way to flip the lcd yet? I tried with a magnet for a long time but no go. The FX1 was a beauty to work with when it came to 35mm adapter. With that huge lcd that needed a simple magnet to flip.

But to be honest, the more I work with the A1, the more I start wondering if you really need a 35mm adapter with this camera. The A1 has a nice bokeh and dof than many adapters, without the hassle of having more weight and now a monitor attached to the camera.

Oh, btw, I'm going to make some test with and without the letus35A today to compare. One thing I can say straight away is that the A1 doesn't need any macro or spacer to work with the letus.

I think your best bet is to use an inexpensive external LCD display that's capable of flipping the image... for example the entire iKan line is super-affordable, check them out at http://www.ikancorp.com/v7000.htm

I have been experimenting with a Sony RM-95 remote control connected to the LANC of a Sony camcorder. While browsing some of the adjustment menus I came across the image flip feature. Now, memory addresses do differ from camcorder to camcorder, so if anyone decides to give this a try, bear in mind that it will take some experimenting before you get the needed results.

I have been experimenting with a Sony RM-95 remote control connected to the LANC of a Sony camcorder. While browsing some of the adjustment menus I came across the image flip feature. Now, memory addresses do differ from camcorder to camcorder, so if anyone decides to give this a try, bear in mind that it will take some experimenting before you get the needed results.

This is very weird. You plugged a remote control to a camera and a function that exists on the remote and doesn't exist on the camera worked on the camera?

I wonder whether this can be achieved through firmware upgrade ? add a menu option of flip LCD display ?

I am willing to pay extra for Canon if this is possible to achieve just like they can make 30f/60i in PAL XH-A1 with few hundreds dollar charges...

Why not simply use a small external LCD monitor for this purpose... it would probably be less expensive than paying Canon for a firmware change.

External monitor would mean more battery supply is needed and you need to lock it to somewhere you can view, a flip option built in will be very convenient.

Definitely if Canon ask for USD300.00 for this then I may just go to buy a 8" LCD which is bigger and cleaner... (well at the same time, more battery needed too, what the real cruel world :<).

What I'd really love (which I suspect isn't possible in firmware) if the camera could flip the image before it got to the tape. That would be really useful.

That said, if you're working on the calibre of production that requires image flipping due to 35mm adaptors, I'd agree with Chris about the external monitor - especially as you really want to be monitoring HD on a good sized monitor, if possible.

Alex, that is really nice.

Perhaps Canon should maximise their "customise feature" more:

- 50i/25f + 60i/25f USD500.00
- LCD flip USD 100.00
- Recording flip image USD 400.00

That is another USD1000.00, it is a good deal Canon should think about : ).

Yes Alex & Chris, please don't get me wrong, I love to have bigger monitor but the weight of XH-A1 has already challenged my arm so much (actually it is my father & brother's arm at this moment but I am even more tiny then them).

And we do mostly wedding video which is about 16 hours shooting (sometime start from 2am morning until 12am next day, yes, crazy asian wedding ceremony).

I need a battery last long and make more stiff and heavier, or with a lot of power cable wrap around me, yet i still need to run in and out, cut the corner to get into important scene,.. a big external monitor would make my work even more challenging.. especially if i am going to put on a 35mm adapter with follow focus in such environment... (that is why i look for the most versatile 35mm adapter like Brevis but yet i love the quality image of SGpro RII.. haven't decide on this one yet)...

Any good advise for me ? ta~

How's this (with the varizoom pro rig and Marshall HDA):

http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=753&c=51
http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=752&c=51

I've already carried it around for an hour and my back is non for wear.

It's a bit of a challenge if you stoop or drop to a knee, but manageable with practice.

It's better than my three point rigid varizoom rig, lot less wobble and the air piston support rod dampens much of the movement.

BTW, the peaking feature is a must if you don't use an external.

Thank you Peter :D, your gear is just a dream to me... those are expensive stuff I am prioritise them as "very good but not essential" to me.

It is hard earning money to do videographing in Malaysia, especially in a small town call Kuching, I probably need to take about 35 wedding project to earn one A1.. that is about 16 months of business.. (urh! why i love making wedding video so much ??).

But I keep your picture in my budget list... if one day you would like to sell your used item, please do not hesitate to contact me (provided i do have some spare money.. :p).

ta~

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to make you drool and lay awake a night :)

I can see you're point as far as your personal situation, and it seems feasible. I did note that the flip out LCD, when using Peaking, was just as effective in getting focus as using the 7" marshall. Having viewed both at the same time, I'm happy to know that I don't always have to rely on the Marshall to get focus. The LCD's peaking does the trick and I'll get more focused shots than previously thought.

Regarding the A1's continued inability to flip the image - the Letus35 Flip Enhanced does exactly that, automatically. No rendering either, on ingest or in post.

Unless, might there be some reason not to go with the Letus35 Flip Enhanced? Is there some image quality loss caused by the Letus flip?

There is always quality loss the more glass you put in front of the lens - I don't know if Letus is worse or better than others. But the main issue is light loss. There is already light loss in a 35mm adapter, flipping it the image introduces more as they must be using a mirror or prism or something.

The footage on the Letus site looks pretty good.

I think the image flip is done with a prism. And according to the website "light loss is about 1.5 stop plus SLR lens' light loss." Is this too much light loss, in anyone's opinion?