Hi All,

Apoligies if i've posted in the wrong place.

I posted a few question's on the GL1 a few day's ago, the one i brought was in mint condition, a couple of days use later, a "Hot Pixel" had appeared, i was gutted, i knew how much it was going to cost to fix it, but luckily the guy i brought it of gave me my money back.

Anyway, i've completely been put off by Buying Secondhand gear, i'm going to dive in and buy brand new.

My Question is, Which one, at the minute i don't need HD, but in the long run i'd like to know it was there, but the GL2 still does a brilliant job?? That's my predicament. I've never had a Prosumer camera, so i'd rather buy one that could last me a fair few year's.

Any Input or Info off you guy's would be much appreciated.

Cheers

- Mike

The A1 is sorta like the GL2 but on HD steroids- if you can swing the money I say go for it! You can shoot SD and even have true widescreen which is not possible with the GL2 (unless you buy a pricey adapter).....it's really a no-brainer- go for the A1.

Money is really the only thing deciding it, i've got no trouble going for the GL2 but the A1 will be a stretch, hence the "Keeping it for Years" scenario.

Thanks for the input.

I would say that the A1 would be far more useable for the next few years to come. Regular DV is still alive but over the next few years we are gonna see major resolution advances in both color and size so the A1 will at least keep you in the mid range for awhile. I am about to update my GL1 with an A1, I loved my GL1 and got great pictures from it, but the A1 is not only an advancement in image resolution but it also has a ton of the things I really always wanted on my GL1. I think though in the end it depends on what you are gonna be doing with this cam? What are you gonna be shooting? Whats your final release format?

Hi Jack,

As i said in the first post, i had a GL1 for a few day's, those few days i had it really impressed me. I've been using normal point and shoot for the last 5 years, i'm more into the editing side of things, but i've been snowboarding the last 3 years, and i've been filming everything and anythng to do with it, so i thought it's time to setp up the quality and adjustability.

Also i only output to DVD.

That will be the main use of the camera, hopefully at some point i will start doing weddings, birthdays etc.

Go with the one that your budget most comfortably allows. $2250 vs. $4000.

The GL2 is a 1/4" chip camera; the A1 has 16:9 1/3" chips, so you're really comparing apples and oranges. I believe the GL2 is the only 4:3 1/4" chip SD camera currently in production, isn't it? It probably would be good for your snowboarding shooting because it's smaller and lighter than any of the 1/3" chip HDV cameras.

I wouldn't suggest the gl2 at this point.

If you want to save money and have a portable solution while snowboarding, I would highly, highly suggest the gs400 or gs500 over the GL2 in this environment any day of the week.

However, I own the XH-A1 and it is stellar. I wouldn't want to snowboard with it though.

The Gs400 has a killer 16:9, is very portable and cheap. Try it out. I would take a gs400 over gl2 in almost any filming environment, except nature or sports.

Chris mentioned to go with what your budget allows.

I picked up a Gs500, new on ebay for $640, and believe it or not it, I will occasionally use it for b-roll in 16:9 SD, along side my XH-A1, and it matches up well. I am very impressed.

I used to have a dvc30 (I would suggest before a GL2 as well) and the gs500 was significantly better in 16:9.

Oops, I overlooked those Panasonic 1/4" chippers. Good recommendation there. I've never seen one in the flesh but have read good things about them. You do get more for your money in that category of camera. It seems to me the A1 is a bit heavy and awkward for snowboarding, not to mention the cost if you trash it.

Well, I don't mean to sound negative or anything, but it really doesn't matter whether you "only need SD" or not. All of these HD(v) cameras can do SD, they don't do only HD. What it comes down to is what quality do you want and what price are you willing to pay?

My first prosumer camera has been the GL1, I've used that for the longest time and it is still a great camera. I've fairly recently started using a DVX100B now that I've moved up to the higher production classes at my college and I've gotta say that the DVX100B really beats the heck out of the GL1 in every way except weight (the GL1 is lighter of course). If you asked me which I would rather have, I'd definitely go for the DVX all the way.

Since the argument now is usually the DVX100B or the A1, why would you consider the GL2? The A1 will give you the best SD performance between the three, the DVX is right behind it, and the GL2, in my opinion, would be even lower because the Sony VX2100 does a much better job in many ways.


So altogether, here's my list:

1. Canon A1
2. DVX100B
3. Sony VX2100
4. Canon GL2

Really, I don't think you'll be getting years out of the GL2 at this point in time, maybe if you're doing just home videos, but since you want to do other stuff, you'll be much better off.

I second what Jack Felis said. I own a GL1 and a DVX100a. The DVX produces a much better image than the GL series cams, and has true 24p and 30p. I go for the cameras with the most options in my price range. The A1 is at the top of my list right now because you can shoot great HD, SD, 16x9, 24f, 30f, and 60i. So I would say A1 or a DVX.

To turn this discussion in a completely different direction, here are some remarks that may influence the direction you want to take.

IMO you would be unwise to invest in a SD camera at this moment. The future is with HDV, at least with your budget considerations.

You use the camera often while snowboarding. From that perspective, you may consider investing in the HV-10 for around $ 1.400, taste the benefits of HDV in comparison to SD and if you are convinced of the benefits, you can always trade it in to go to the A1. For snowboarding you have a much smaller camera and the video quality is not significantly lower. The price may better fit your budget. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for all your comments.

At this point in time, i think it's best to get a camera for my needs, and at the moment that is just snowboarding. In the future, plus when the UK fully embraces HD i'll step up, and a get a HD cam.

The reason i chose the Gl1 originally was for the 20X lens and Optical stabilizer also the Handle is very handy when riding. Which brought me to the conclusion to get the GL2 or A1.

As holly mentioned the GS500, that would save me lots of money, but i'm losing a high powered lens and alot of manual control.

I'm stuck in the middle at the moment.

In that case it appears the GL2 or the XH A1 are back in the picture for you. The GL2 also has a 20X lens, doesn't it? One nice thing about the XH A1 is the lens, because it goes wider than most. I personally would try to finance the A1 if I were in your shoes (on your snowboard:)) because of the 16:9 chips and the lens. But if the price is prohibitive and you don't need to shoot 16:9, then the GL2 may be best. Just because HD is coming on doesn't mean SD is automatically obsolete.

The gs400 and gs500 have a plethora of controls, just relegated to the menu.

I would serisously consider it. (Just because HD is around the corner, it shouldn't be the determining factor because distribution is still out of town for a while.)

If you have the funds, get the A1, it will not dissapoint. However I believe a smaller camcorder would work better for snowboarding than the gl's and dvx's for portability.

You shouldn't need a very long lens for this type of shooting, in fact you should be using a wide lens or fisheye.

My gs500 has nearly the same telephoto reach as my A1 because the A1 starts off so wide. So just because it says 20x doesn't really mean much.

By the way, if you are really desiring a long reach, the DVX only has a third of the reach of the gl2. In any case I find wide angles more useful that long.

Why not go for the Canon HV10 HDV camera?

It is very small, HD, and cheap. You will get some earth shattering SD video from this thing if you downscale in your NLE.

There are no mic jacks on the thing but then again I doubt you will be using mics on a snowboard anyways.

The HV10 isn't as good in low light but again this should not matter with snowboarding.

I think the camera is the cheapest HDV camera on the market right now and would actually be much cheaper then the GL2. In the future if you want a better HDV camera with better controls and audio features you can still keep the HV10 to use as a great HD B-roll camera or deck for your NLE.

This camera has an insane amount of quality for either HD or SD and will give you some cutting edge quality for at least a few years.

One other bonus is how good the infrared focus system is on the HV10. It uses an infrared sensor for almost instant focus which might be nice for fast showboarding scenes.

I did look at the HV10, the only trouble with that would be mobility, upright camcorders are really difficult to ride with (Holding).

Holly, The reason i need the long focal length, is for following riders down the mountain on a tripod.

Mike,

I think the perfect compromise for your budget and picture quality would be the Sony FX1. You can get one right in between the $2200 GL2 and the $4000 A1 at around $3200. The FX1 takes great video. It has the handle you're looking for, but it is a little on the heavier side.

It may only have a 12x zoom, but if you're doing SD projects, you can crop and zoom your HDV 1080i clip in your PAL 525 timeline and not loose an ounce of resolution.

I know it may seem wise to hold off on buying HD now if the UK isn't fully embracing it yet at this point in time. But, in 2-5 years when that does happen and you have your HDTV, would you want to watch your old footage in HD? I made the plunge into HD, and I don't have an HDTV yet. All I know is that HD video looks great on my LCD computer monitor, and produces the best looking SD on my 4:3 CRT TV. Then, hopefully, next year when I get my 1080p HDTV, my videos will look even better!

I say if you're getting a camera, go HD and don't look back.

JVC HD1U is a steal at $1399 (B&H special)
It can do SD video progressively at 60FPS which is fantastic for sports, and if you're shooting snow-sports, light wouldn't be an issue (this cam likes light)....it would allow SD and HDV when you're ready! They also have a top handle for low angle shooting.....I had one awhile back and thought it was a good camera for the right user- and you just might be the ideal user for a camera like that.

(biggest gripes are aggressive edge enhancement <sharpening> and low light capapbility isn't as good as other cameras- of which those 2 issues may not be of concern to you)

Mike, You will be zoomed in fully while riding?

Do you have shock absorbers on your snowboard, because full telephoto on the slopes might get the viewers a little sick.

A lock down telephoto on tripod would look great though.

at the minute i don't need HD, but in the long run i'd like to know it was there, but the GL2 still does a brilliant job?? That's my predicament. I've never had a Prosumer camera, so i'd rather buy one that could last me a fair few years.

From what you've listed as your needs and what you'll do, it sounds like you would fine and happy with an fx7 or fx1, maybe even an hvr-a1u. Don't throw money away on features you'll never use.

Mike, You will be zoomed in fully while riding?

Do you have shock absorbers on your snowboard, because full telephoto on the slopes might get the viewers a little sick.

A lock down telephoto on tripod would look great though.

No Holly. I mean't that when i do Follow cam, i'll use a Fisheye or Wide angle. But when i'm not riding i'll use a tripod to get in on the action up the slope. That would be horrible watching footage that shaky :-)

Mike,

I think the perfect compromise for your budget and picture quality would be the Sony FX1. You can get one right in between the $2200 GL2 and the $4000 A1 at around $3200. The FX1 takes great video. It has the handle you're looking for, but it is a little on the heavier side.

It may only have a 12x zoom, but if you're doing SD projects, you can crop and zoom your HDV 1080i clip in your PAL 525 timeline and not loose an ounce of resolution.

I know it may seem wise to hold off on buying HD now if the UK isn't fully embracing it yet at this point in time. But, in 2-5 years when that does happen and you have your HDTV, would you want to watch your old footage in HD? I made the plunge into HD, and I don't have an HDTV yet. All I know is that HD video looks great on my LCD computer monitor, and produces the best looking SD on my 4:3 CRT TV. Then, hopefully, next year when I get my 1080p HDTV, my videos will look even better!

I say if you're getting a camera, go HD and don't look back.


Hi John,

Someone i know has the camera, it's a very good camera. As you said it is heavy. I think at this time for just Snowboarding it's overkill, i would love a cam like that though.

JVC HD1U is a steal at $1399 (B&H special)
It can do SD video progressively at 60FPS which is fantastic for sports, and if you're shooting snow-sports, light wouldn't be an issue (this cam likes light)....it would allow SD and HDV when you're ready! They also have a top handle for low angle shooting.....I had one awhile back and thought it was a good camera for the right user- and you just might be the ideal user for a camera like that.

(biggest gripes are aggressive edge enhancement <sharpening> and low light capapbility isn't as good as other cameras- of which those 2 issues may not be of concern to you)


I have looked for this camera in the UK. But i can't find it anywhere. which is why i'm kind of focusing on the GL2 to get me started.

Well, how bout a used (unless you can find it new of course) Canon Optura 50 or 60 (not sure what the UK model is called). Superb day time footage, real 16:9, great colors, optical image stabilization. Honestly, except for low light shooting, I would prefer the Optura over the GL2. And they're way dirt cheap - $300-400 range in the US. That saves you money up front, and saves you money if you smash it up during a shoot.

Let me repeat, the video is outstanding. Don't let the low price fool you!

Forget the budget. Get an A1. You'll be glad you did. Then get some serious work done and pay that baby off!

I have looked for this camera in the UK. But i can't find it anywhere. which is why i'm kind of focusing on the GL2 to get me started.

There was never a European version of that camera. It only comes as NTSC.

That solves that then. No wonder i couldn't find it :-)

Can anyone give me any advice on the Panasonic GS500. I can't seem to find footage of it anywhere. All i'm interested in is what the O.I.S is like compared to the GL2, and the quality of the footage???

"Just An Update"

I found footage from a GS500, nice colors and image quality, but not as good Image stabilization, which is one of my must have's on a camcorder.

Another turn of event's a mate of mine has just brought an XM1/GL1

I know, i probarbly should run a mile.... But he's a mate, he say's it's in prestine condition, no " Hot Pixels " he can see. I'm going to give a good test at the weekend...If it has a hot pixel(s) it should be noticable straight away, or can they appear over a duration of time, i know it could pack up a week later but it could also last a while.... and after having that faulty XM1 the quality and stabilizer really amazed me.

He want's £450 ($870 around that)

Does it sound like a good buy if it's clean and clear!!!!

The GL1 is a bit old, but if it's in good condition that's not a bad price. There were two issues I heard a lot about with the GL1, and the dead pixel you already know about. The other is head alignment.

There were numerous incidents of head alignment issues that came up with both the GL1 and XL1, and the way a person discovered the problem was to try to play a tape on somebody else's deck or camera. If the GL1 recorded with its heads out of alignment, then it could play the tape, but no other deck could play it properly. The way to check that is to record something, then take the tape and see if it will play back on a different camera. If there's no dead pixel and no head alignment problem and the camera looks good, no lens scratches, etc., then it's probably a good deal for you.

I know it's old but i figure, it'll do me until i can afford the A1.... Plus it'll get me used to a camera in the Pro-Sumer market.

I didn't know about the Head Allignment issue, i'll take my cheapy JVC with me to test that out. Thanks.

I actually have a pal GL2 and while it is a very good camera I would not advise to buy it to film snowboarding. I would think that you would get better quality at a lower price from a Sony HC1 (which I also have). The HC1 weakness is low light, but you should not have a problem with light when filming snowboarding.
Just my 2 cents...