Did somebody try this (http://www.benq.com/products/LCD/?product=812) new Benq monitor? It seems to be better then the Dell 24 inch.

http://www.benq.com/images/product/LCD/FP241W/FP241W-frontimage.jpg

Some specs:

Screen Size: 24"
Panel type: P-MVA panel
Resolution: 1920x1200(WUXGA)
Pixel Pitch: 0.270 mm
Brightness: 500cd/㎡
Contrast Ratio: 1000:1
Response Time: 16ms( 6ms GTG)
Display Area: 518.4 x 324.0 (mm)
Display Colors: 16.7 million
Viewing Angle: 178/178(CR>=10)
Input Signals: D-Sub/DVI-D/S-Video/Composite/Component/HDMI


Some info:

Full HD Format Support 1080p

Unlike conventional LCD monitors, the FP241W features complete HD support, so you can enjoy the most dazzlingly video possible. Experience lifelike video with all your new generation electronics, such as the latest game consoles and HD DVD players.

HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface)
http://www.benq.com/modules/image_bin.cfm?id=50511&ttid=1124150&url=product/LCD/FP241W/feature05.jpg

The BenQ FP241W is the world's first LCD monitor with HDMI. HDMI not only enables 5Gbps data transfers, but eliminates the need for signal conversions, ensuring the best quality video. In addition, unlike other high-performance displays, the FP241W uses only a single HDMI cable, which carries the best quality video signals. The result is less clutter and hassle-free installation.

Unequaled Picture Quality

With AMA technology built into the FP241W, it reduces grey-to-grey response times to a mere 8ms, ensuring ultra-smooth video without ghosting. Even with highly dynamic content such as movies and games, video is crisp and clean.. Additionally, exclusive Senseye™ technology and a 800:1 contrast ratio ensure that the FP241W delivers vibrant colors and exquisitely rendered details.

Some reviews:

TFT Central (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/benq_fp241w.htm)
TrustedReviews (http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=3425)
Bit-tech.net (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/11/07/Benq_FP241W/1.html)

My understanding is that the monitor does not support 1:1 pixel mapping.

That means that if you plug your DVD player/Blu-Ray Player into the HDMI input, it will stretch your 1080 image to fill all 1200 pixels.

I have spoken to Benq in Australia and they have said that they are releasing a firmware upgrade in December to rectify the problem so I'm going to hold off from getting this monitor until then.

My understanding is that the monitor does not support 1:1 pixel mapping.

That means that if you plug your DVD player/Blu-Ray Player into the HDMI input, it will stretch your 1080 image to fill all 1200 pixels.

I have spoken to Benq in Australia and they have said that they are releasing a firmware upgrade in December to rectify the problem so I'm going to hold off from getting this monitor until then.

Yep you're right about the update.

Official News: BenQ FP241W 1:1 Pixel Mapping Fix Coming
November 19th 2006

As we reported a few days ago, there has recently been word across the internet that there would be a firmware update for the FP241W to fix the main gripe everyone seemed to have with the screen, the lack of aspect ratio options and 1:1 pixel mapping. We can confirm that UK management at BenQ have confirmed that this WILL be happening, and while there is limited detail at this time, BenQ have stated that the "24W series will have new firmware to phase in new functions, such as display mode//Windows Vista-DDC/CI". This confirmation only came on Friday, and more details will follow soon. This upgrade will not be possible by the user directly, and I would imagine screens would need to be sent to service centres for the update to be applied. New stock after a certain point (expected December) will have this updated firmware in place.

So, does the Beng also display HD coming in through DVI?

I've heard so many references to HDV editors not being able to see HiDef without going through something like the Matrox MXO that I'm confused on the subject.

(Will actually be editing DVCPRO HD on one of the new dual core Mac Pros.)

The gateway 24" already has 1:1 mapping and is available now. What makes the benq so much better?

Again . . . with either the Beng or the Gateway, does one need anymore than the DVI connection to watch 1080 video?

Or, is it necessary to have something like a Kona card or BlackMagic or Matrox to pass the signal through?

Gene, what do you mean? If you have an HD signal, and you are routing it out a DVI connection, you can route it to the monitor ..?

Maybe detail your query differently ...

GB

Again . . . with either the Beng or the Gateway, does one need anymore than the DVI connection to watch 1080 video?

Or, is it necessary to have something like a Kona card or BlackMagic or Matrox to pass the signal through?

Kinda of an open ended question. If you have a dual head card, then HD video on the editor is passed as overlay. This depends on the editing app, and graphics card.

If your hooking up a cable box to watch tv, or dvd player, etc. Then you can use the component input (in which case the Gateway monitor will allow 1:1 mapping in software settings). If your cable box/input device has HDMI, then you need an HDMI to DVI adaptor. Again setting 1:1 mapping in the monitor software if so equipped.

Some versions of Nvidia cards and driver software directly support HD signals and allow 1:1 mapping, (even if the monitor does not).

If you want to use two montiors as dual PC for editing, and need a third for HDTV monitoring, then you can use a Kona or BM card. Otherwise, you can use the Matrox three head card and pass the signal as overlay.

Bascially, you can consider these PC flat panel monitors nothing more than HDTV sets without the built in tuners. In which case they are cheaper if you have a cable box to for tuning/channel changing. However, comparably sized HDTV's cost twice as much (the tuners add to the cost). There is a savings by using a these PC monitors as dual purpose HDTV sets. (Which is how I have my gateway setup at my home office where space is limited).

I hope that answers some of you questions. I will be using three monitors, a quatro 3450 for PC edits, and passing the HD signal via a Xena card to an Sony LMD LCD.

BTW, I'm keeping my 21" CRT's for PC edits as I also do photoshop and photography work and even these LCD's can't compare.

Hey guys, I thought I should clarify a few things about using these computer monitors as video HD production monitors. I hope this info helps:

1) If using Final Cut Pro, you most definitely need an HD capture card or Matrox box to output a real signal [component or DVI] (spending between $1000 to $1600 in addition to the monitor). FCP has a so-so quality trick that can spit the video out as a desktop across your graphics card (called Cinema Desktop), but it is for rough cuts only. It is NOT good for real evaluation.

2) While the 1:1 pixel mapping is great for evaluating detail, NONE of these computer monitors is appropriate for looking at video color and contrast. At all. The gamma is weird and un-video like. Only use a high res LCD for detail and not color or black levels.

Please spread the word. If you color correct on these things, you are in for trouble. But the detail is perfect.

-Christopher S. Johnson

If using Final Cut Pro, you most definitely need an HD capture card or Matrox box to output a real signal [component or DVI] (spending between $1000 to $1600 in addition to the monitor). FCP has a so-so quality trick that can spit the video out as a desktop across your graphics card (called Cinema Desktop), but it is for rough cuts only. It is NOT good for real evaluation.
-Christopher S. Johnson


Just an FYI... The Matrox MXO you spoke of uses the desktop cinema function of FCP to output video.

And in my opinion it is not a "so-so quality trick" for rough cuts only!

Just an FYI... The Matrox MXO you spoke of uses the desktop cinema function of FCP to output video.

And in my opinion it is not a "so-so quality trick" for rough cuts only!

No....really. Even Apple will tell you that its not a real production quality video signal.

Final Cut Pro's Cinema Desktop is a trick, and not real video production. It can be helpful for an off-line cut but nothing more. That is all it was ever intended for. Its there just as a helpful reference. I have used it, both for SD and HD. ALL professionals agree about this.

-Christopher S. Johnson

ALL professionals agree about this.
-Christopher S. Johnson


That's a pretty wide statement, since I am a professional and disagree.

That's a pretty wide statement, since I am a professional and disagree.

Yeah it was intended to be a wide statement. If I was more truthful though, I would say that the 30 or so video professionals I have met in Los Angeles think of Cinema Desktop as a cute trick, and OK for reference, but consider the image to be lacking in accuracy and dependability for judging truly what the video looks like.

I wish I was wrong, I really do. Can you imagine how cool it would be to have an accurate HD image to view without a capture card at all. Just going out of my graphics card to a monitor. That would be amazingly cool and save me $1600.

But its a cool and handy thing to have for offline cuts, getting the story right, ect.

-Christopher

Let's say for example that I bought one of the new BlackMagic Intensity HDMI Cards and output to either this Benq or to a nice big Sony Bravia Full HD LCD TV would I be getting an accurate image in terms of both detail and color correction?

Let's say for example that I bought one of the new BlackMagic Intensity HDMI Cards and output to either this Benq or to a nice big Sony Bravia Full HD LCD TV would I be getting an accurate image in terms of both detail and color correction?

It depends on what you are doing. I may be too restrictive in my opinions on this board. My opinions are from the point of view of someone who has to hand the edit master tape over to a broadcaster, not just a hobbyist. So if any of you are just doing this for experience and fun then please excuse my strictness of opinion.

My experience in this arena is using the AJA HD card, going component HD to a Dell 24" computer LCD monitor, set for 1:1 pixel representation. I assume you can also do this with the BenQ with that firmware update that was mentioned earlier. This set up, for professional standards, gives very very accurate DETAIL, with every pixel of the HD image represented. Its the best way to catch a "dead" pixel from the camera, or check focus.

But I found that trying to calibrate the colors and blacks of the video world was strange and unreliable for real broadcast color correction because the "color-space" and gamma was different on a computer monitor.

On a "TV" LCD like the Bravia, these weird color/black spaces might be better, but not nearly as reliable as a CRT old school tube HDTV that has been properly calibrated.

But look, if you are just doing a personal project, then by all means, go ahead and calibrate your LCD that you have with color bar method and go have some fun!

The word on professional street is this:

Use two monitors in the edit suite for best results -

1.) a real CRT HDTV, even if it doesn't have the right amount of resolution. This is for color and blacks accuracy. Here is an example at around $2500.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&sku=326928

I'm on a budget and have a "prosumer" high end CRT HDTV from Sony that was discontinued but can still be found in some consumer stores. And I calibrate it religiously with color bars. It comes in 30" and 34" and has the "Super Fine Pitch Tube" moniker in the name. Not perfect but much better than any flat panel.

2.) and one of those BenQ or Dell full res LCD computer monitors for the detail

This one-two combo is what many consider the way to go for right now for broadcast level HD post production. Check out the musings of HD consultant Mike Curtis here:

www.hdforindies.com

Hope this helps. I wish it was easier, I really do.

-Christopher

I think what Chirstopher is trying to say is to use the equipment designed for the end result. There are some of us Pro's whom don't provide tapes for broadcast. It all depends on your audience and what they are viewing the end result on.

For example, if your stuff is intended for playback on the very equipment that you are editing on (i.e. web, cd, presentation on labtops or booth display, etc.) Then standard PC monitors should suffice. What you see is what you get. However, providing that you know your equipment is calibrated to whatever extent possible.

Still, nothing beats a CRT in terms of contrast and color. Even with a 22" gateway and a 40" Bravia, I'm still keeping a 21" viewsonic CRT for photo and print work. I would assume that visiting any production studio and you'll still find CRT's in use.

For color and contrast correction---

1. Do any of the CRT/LCD computer monitor calibrators work for calibrating an HDTV monitor used in editing from a computer?

2. I keep seeing the suggestion to use an SD CRT monitor for HD color & contrast adjustment. How can that work? Aren't the SD and HD two different color spaces? Are color bars enough to "calibrate" a SD monitor to the HD color space? If so why not a random LCD HDTV with a DVI input from the computer?

Still confused.
Rick

For color and contrast correction---

1. Do any of the CRT/LCD computer monitor calibrators work for calibrating an HDTV monitor used in editing from a computer?

2. I keep seeing the suggestion to use an SD CRT monitor for HD color & contrast adjustment. How can that work? Aren't the SD and HD two different color spaces? Are color bars enough to "calibrate" a SD monitor to the HD color space? If so why not a random LCD HDTV with a DVI input from the computer?

Still confused.
Rick

The JVC I mentioned above, although a 4:3 screen, produces a real HDTV color space from what I read in the specs and hear from others.

-Christopher

1. Do any of the CRT/LCD computer monitor calibrators work for calibrating an HDTV monitor used in editing from a computer?
Most programs don't support it. After Effects does I think.

You may be better off buying a broadcast-grade monitor. I haven't compared to the print/digital photography calibration probes, although the broadcast-grade monitor will likely do a better job (except maybe some of the broadcast LCDs on the market).

2. I keep seeing the suggestion to use an SD CRT monitor for HD color & contrast adjustment. How can that work? Aren't the SD and HD two different color spaces?
The coding for Rec. 601 SD and Rec. 709 HD signals are different since Rec. 601 and Rec. 709 use different luma co-efficients. This is not an issue if the numbers are converted from one to the other.
*Some/most consumer equipment don't do this. Your NLE will likely do this.
**Not all HD formats follow ITU-R Recommendation BT. 709- SMPTE 274M doesn't, but you probably won't be using that format.

HD and SD also differ in the primary chromaticities- the exact colors of red, green, and blue. For SD, the standard is SMPTE C for the NTSC world and EBU for the PAL world (and Japan). For HD, the standard is the Rec. 709 chromaticities.

However, most HD work done for the NTSC world is graded on monitors following the SMPTE C colors. So, a SD monitor will be ok in that aspect.

A third last difference between Rec. 601 SD and Rec. 709 HD is that the transfer functions are different. However, a lot of work is graded with the same transfer function anyways so that's not a big deal. You probably aren't going to be able to spot a meaningful difference.

Are color bars enough to "calibrate" a SD monitor to the HD color space?
Um... yes and no? Color bars simply calibrate the levels- between the recorded (or generated) levels, and how the monitor interprets those levels. They show you if the levels are being interpreted differently (which is usually wrong).

They can't be used to account for differences in primary chromaticities or transfer functions.

If so why not a random LCD HDTV with a DVI input from the computer?
An ideal broadcast monitor won't have image cheats, will be calibrated, will have standard primary chromaticities (or close enough), will have a good de-interlacer (if it's a progressive display), will show full HD resolution, and can show a HD signal output from your editing system (or recording VTR)- whatever the image is displayed in your NLE on your computer display is rarely accurate.

That being said, not all HD broadcast monitors meet those criteria.

Glenn-
Thanks for a great answer. That really clears up a lot of the confusion for me.

Thanks
Rick

So till now, has anyone actually used this monitor?

I'm considering between this and the Dell 2407 for use with my XH A1 through component input for focusing.

The folks over at hardware forum are complaining about the deinterlacing which kind of confuses me. I thought all pc lcd monitors are progressive? And then why would they deinterlace?

So till now, has anyone actually used this monitor?

I'm considering between this and the Dell 2407 for use with my XH A1 through component input for focusing.

The folks over at hardware forum are complaining about the deinterlacing which kind of confuses me. I thought all pc lcd monitors are progressive? And then why would they deinterlace?


I have the monitor for viewing the footage from my V1 & Z1, so far only over Component (haven't got a HDMI cable yet).

It looks beatuiful, but let me tell you something in advance, the 1:1 pixel mapping issue is not fully resolved - so as yet, you will not get 1920x1080 footage through anything other than a PC input carrying a graphics signal.

Video signals, whether analogue or digital are cropped about 5% on both sides - don't ask me why.

BenQ have a firmware upgrade that allows you to at least get a pixel for pixel representation of 95% of your footage, but you do lose the sides.

Benq Australia assures me that a second Firmware update will eventually be available to give us the 5% on the sides back.

That said, when you're watching footage on your computer it's beautiful and untainted. But it is so good it lets you see where you went wrong. Watching it on a smaller monitor hid all the imperfections. So that's a positive in helping you get the best result.

If you want it for focusing alone you'll be very satisfied. I've had it attached to my camera with the camera at the end of a crane and it's beautifully crisp. No more focusing errors for me. However, I did pan a little too far in one shot and ended up seeing some of our equipment in the shot and because the sides are cropped, I didn't notice until I got the footage onto my computer. That said, the image displayed on the monitor (when cropped) is almost exactly the same as on the Z1's LCD Display, so it's probably not a disadvantage at all.

The 24" models of Dell and Benq seem fairly similar -- except that the Benq has HDMI inputs. I'm getting an Intensity card for my Mac Pro, so I'll have HDMI output, plus I'll be working with camcorders that have HDMI as well.

with the Dell, I would just go DVI to it, I suppose. What is the real advantage of having the HDMI connection as well?

2) Any other opinions about the two monitors? Which would you choose?

Any other opinions about the two monitors? Which would you choose?

Price point is important for me here in the UK since monitors are one of those items that seem over-priced here, and with the BenQ you seem to get a lot of bang for your buck (or £). Also, Dell support here is reportedly horrible.

Finally, I tend to agree with the montior reviews at TrustedReviews.com, and they are gushing about about the BenQ FP241W:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/09/13/BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p1

But I still don't get the 1080p thing. Aren't all lcds progressive?

Or what they meant was you could get 1080p from HDMI as opposed to 1080i from component?

Maybe I better go for the Dell. For some reason, the shops I know are kind of reluctant to bring the Benq in. There MAY be a reason behind that. As for the Dell I heard the colours are way too saturated though component, wonder how the BenQ fares.

Ok, this is getting confusing;

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/dell_2xx7wfp.htm

Scroll to the bottom. No 1080i support over dvi?

Ok, just bought the Benq FP241 WZ yesterday. I have some problems with it mostly in pc.

Through DVI-D connection, the display is really bright. From the factory setting of 90 (out of 100) I had to reduce it to 20. I find this really odd.

Also, my graphics card (non hdcp) is outputting 1920 x 1200, but the BenQ puts black bars at the top and bottom. However, when I point my mouse up or down, it scrolls up or down to show the rest of the screen so the black bars are definitely on BenQ's end.

Colours and exposure look really wash out on DVI-D. It had a noisy grain to it that tame down a bit when i reduce the brightness. My previous Acer 2423 never had any of the above problems.

Connecting the component input to my XHA1, focusing was acceptable but somehow does not seem as sharp as my Sony Wega. The colour on the other hand was veering towards technicolour :(

The 1:1 pixel thingie works. There is still overscan.

My biggest gripe now is black bar through the DVI-D. I never seen this problem before. Whether HDCP or not, it shouldn't matter right?

the question is that knowing for sure that nobody will play you HD footage on something else than a LCD or Plasma flat screen, what is the value to use a calibration screen that will not reflect the final result users can see ?
Is it not better to ajust the signal to avoid artifact created by the display technology than making a perfect signal that will render badly on regular users screen.

I'm having some problems with this monitor, as I mention here (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=92663).

My V1 is not sending a 1080 line signal to it via HDMI, but a 720 line signal. Has anyone else had this problem?

Also, I'm having a lot of signal loss problems, where it just drops out at random for a few seconds. Does anyone else have this?

i have the fp241wz and don't seem to have any overscan problems. I'm running it of a macbook pro not a pc and it works great with the components from my canon a1. As far as having a problem focusing off it I can't possibly see how. Looking at the full 1080 signal coming through the components on this baby looks face-meltingly awsome an incredibly sharp. It comes pretty bright from the factory and i had to lower it down to around 20 but i don't think thats something worth complaining about. Yeah any lcd can't come near to true black but the benq has pretty much no backlight spill which makes the whole grey for black lcd thing much more tolerable. The picture looks amazing on it and the design i think looks super sleek. Couldn't be happier with this puppy, i highly recomend it!

Ok,the information on my lcd is showing the output as 1080i. This is not right of course, since its coming from my Nvidia 7800GTX at 1920 x 1200.

I unplugged it and connect the BenQ using VGA. Now the OSD information shows 1920 x 1200 and it displays correctly.

In a last minute attempt before I start my bitching at Hardforum, I unplugged both connections from my card and exchange them. My Acer (dvi to vga) was occupying dvi out no. 1 and the BenQ ( dvi-d) the other.

Guess what. It works now. BenQ information OSD displays the incoming signal as proper 1920 x 1200 and it displays correctly now :) Perhaps my graphics card (or the BenQ) was confused when i plugged the BenQ in the first time or something but anyone who gets this problem should try to unplugged and plugged the connector back in. Might work, who knows?

The brightness of the monitor is still crazy. I reduce it to 10 (out of 100) and I think this is fine. Certains colour tones seems desaturated (quite obvious mind you).

As for component, perhaps I'm asking too much. I was comparing my Wega to a 24 inch and my Wega is more then twice the size. Perhaps it looks more detailed in that manner (because of the size). I tried the component output of a lot of 32 inch lcds (Sony Bravia S, Samsung, LG, Sharp, Panasonic Viesta) and was not impressed at all.

More problems:

Bought a HDMI->DVI cable to plug my V1 into the DVI port on the monitor and get 720x576 input if you can believe it. (And yes, I was definitely sending it a HDV signal).

So my conclusion is... I WANT A REFUND!!!