Hello all,

I'm one step away from buying the DVCPro250 from Bargain Camera:

http://www.bargain-camera.com/store/product.php?productid=16209&cat=275&page=1

The crane alone weighs 22lbs and my Z1 is what, 5lbs? So it's approximately a 27lb payload.

I'm planning on either buying the stand to go with it (but am hesitant, because it may not fit on my dolly) or mounting it on my Manfrotto 501-351 tripod system.

However, the 501-351 system has a maximum load of 13lbs.

QUESTION ONE:
Does that mean I'm likely to cause damage to my tripod if I mount the crane on it?

My hesitation for purchasing the crane stand to go with it is that I plan on using this crane on my BTABO dolly http://www.videoguys.com.au/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1493
but have no way of knowing whether the stand will fit.

QUESTION TWO:
Does anyone have any experience with the Bargain Camera crane stands and mounting them on a dolly? And if so is the spread of the stand legs the same as your average tripod?

Thank you for your help,

-- John.

The crane alone weighs 22lbs and my Z1 is what, 5lbs? So it's approximately a 27lb payload.

John just thought I'd point out that the crane does not include the counter weights as stated on their website. So if you do the maths on the camera weight and distance from the fulcrum to the camera etc etc i'de guess you'll need to add 2 to 3 times the weight of your camera to counter balance it onto that 27lb you worked out giving you a total of around 37 to 42lb.

Andy.

I bought this crane, good luck fitting it on a dolly. The stand is the exact same as the stands used to hold up DJ speakers. You can vary the footprint of the stand but you'll loose stability quickly as you make it smaller.This won't fit on a tripod. There'd be no way to connect it; the only connector on the crane is a big two to three inch hole where the DJ speaker stand fits in. I can't really see any video tripod but the biggest holding the thing.

I bought this crane, good luck fitting it on a dolly...

Thanks Ben. Hmm... that all sounds kind of negative. Do you have any positive feedback about the crane? I don't know whether it's so cheap because it's so cr*p or something.

Does it give you smooth movement?

hey Jon, did u ever buy the crane? i'd like to know your experience with it and the merchant u bought it from

Hi James,

No, I still haven't bought it. I'm planning to eventually though but just haven't had the chance. I'm still investigating alternatives but none really compare in terms of price.

As for the company themselves, they have been very positive in responding to my emails and questions. They're not one of DVInfo's sponsors, and a number of the sponsors do sell cranes so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment any further. And in reality, since I haven't yet bought the crane, I'm not sure I'll be any help to you.

One of the things that's stopping me is that I don't know for sure if their LANC control system works with the Z1P.

Kessler Crane is having an end of year special. Priced a little higher than the one you're considering but fits on a fluid head.

Kessler Crane is having an end of year special. Priced a little higher than the one you're considering but fits on a fluid head.

Yeah but the Manfrotto 501 isn't technically a Fluid Head. Plus the maximum load of the 501-351 Tripod is way below the weight of the crane, so I don't see the point of even trying.

And the Kessler site annoys me. As an Australian customer I don't have the "crane packages" available to me. Or at least I don't think I do.

I have attempted to use a Kessler Crane (which I like a lot BTW) on a 501. Does not work very well at all.

I have attempted to use a Kessler Crane (which I like a lot BTW) on a 501. Does not work very well at all.

So did you buy the stand from Kessler Crane? As far as I'm concerned the stand they sell is WAY overpriced. It's something like $500. The stand for the Bargain Camera Crane stand is less than a hundred.

I would guess your sticks might support the weight but possibly not the head. Kessler also sells a head for their crane which might work with your sticks. If they're still having a sale maybe email them and ask for a deal on the custom package you need.

Kessler also sells a head for their crane which might work with your sticks.

Do you mean the FLUID SWIVEL (http://www.jdigitalproduction.com/mall/Kessler-Crane_Swivel.asp)?

The only trouble with that is that you lose all manual control of the camera's tilt.

Also, interstingly, in the Instruction Manual document that you can download for the 12 ft crane, it clearly shows the crane being mounted to a 501 head. Same in the video about the three different modes. But they are not supposed to carry something of that weight. Weird.

I have attempted to use a Kessler Crane (which I like a lot BTW) on a 501. Does not work very well at all.

Hi Peter,

Can you tell me what the trouble is? And whether it caused damage to your tripod?

Finally ordered the DVCPro 250 from Bargain-Camera.com and my order went through just fine but I did not receive a confirmation email.

I emailed their sales department to ask for confirmation but have not received any communication (after 3 days). My credit card, of course, is $800 worse off...

For those of you who have purchased through them, what was their delivery time/Customer Service like? I've got a bad feeling...

Whenever you order from any mail order house,I would suggest to make sure they have a phone number that you can call to reach a real person.
To reach Bargain Camera, try 1-888-845-2226.

If you're going to use a Bogen/Manfrotto tripod and expect to extend the legs, get yourself a set (3) of Bogen Super Clamps. They will add an extra measure to help keep the legs from collapsing during use. Those legs have a habit of slowly sliding closed when there is a lot of weight (from a jib) added. As they slide down, the jib starts to tilt and it shows in the picture.

From a safety standpoint, the tripod can be the weakest link. If you intend to fly your rig over the heads of an audience, think safety and get the strongest tripod you can afford.
Allen W

Whenever you order from any mail order house,I would suggest to make sure they have a phone number that you can call to reach a real person... If you're going to use a Bogen/Manfrotto tripod and expect to extend the legs, get yourself a set (3) of Bogen Super Clamps.

Thanks Allen.

They finally responded. Turned out there was a problem with the shipping option I had selected. In fact the problem arose because I ordered the crane stand as well so as to avoid using the tripod. And the stand is larger than the allowable limit on a USPS parcel to Australia. Complications, complications...

The stand they sell is basically just an amplifier stand that I can probably get over here anyway...

Just got my Kessler Crane delivered today.. nice .
A Manfrotto 116MK2 Fluid head is on it's way to support the Crane.

Adding up the total weight - Kessler =17lbs, Sony HVR Z1= 4.25 lbs, Counter Balance weights = 6.35 lbs. That totals 27.6lbs or 12.6 kg.

The Fluid head 116mk is rated for 22lbs.

I was told that such fluid heads are always underrated and this weight should be fine.
Now to the support issue .....

I have been looking at those DJ / Speaker stands that are rated up to 110lbs/ 50kg.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-PAIR-of-Pro-Speaker-Stands-Heavy-Duty-1-6M-50kg_W0QQitemZ130048236958QQihZ003QQcategoryZ23794QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Does anybody have any experience with such stands ?.. and if so how would one attached / secure a fluid head to the top?
Apparently its a 35mm diameter on the extension tube.

Stability / strength ? / the spreader is low ..

IF those stands will support a speaker they should be plenty sturdy enough for a crane - I've not done this yet (still scheming :=) but if you don't have access to a welder, I'd consider getting something like this

http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/index.php?page_id=266

and making (or having made) a bracket that will bolt to the speaker socket and having the 3/8/16 thread mount that pro tripod heads use, so you can adapt your head to the speaker socket.

From what I've found so far, in actual practice you don't NEED a fluid head on a crane, because the inertia of the weight of camera and crane does enough to smooth out camera motion - this would let you move your fluid head to the CAMERA end of the crane so you can use it in yet another mode - check out some of the videos here

http://www.kesslercrane.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=53&Itemid=36

Here's another site with pix of the head being used at the other end of the jib

http://www.ezfx.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=21

Kessler also makes a machined tripod head replacement (works with ball mount tripod sticks) that's stronger than most expensive heads and still allows moving YOUR head to the camera mount plate of the boom.

HTH... Steve

IF those stands will support a speaker they should be plenty sturdy enough for a crane - I've not done this yet (still scheming :=) but if you don't have access to a welder, I'd consider getting something like this

http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/index.php?page_id=266



Thanks Steve,
Which one of the two would you modify ?
I'm a bit worried the moulded PLASTIC (180.178 SPEAKER STAND EXTERNAL MOUNTING ADAPTOR) might strain / crack under the weight of the crane.. and with the stress of the head.

The METAL (EBH53 SPEAKER STAND TOP HAT INSERT) .. does has it enough surface area on the top to distribute the load ?

thanks Again ..

The ones made by Ultimate Support

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=224147&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

are of carbon fiber and rated to 100 pounds - also these stands

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=400161&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

are rated to 100 pounds - I'm still looking for a wide-stance dolly with big wheels and full locks, may have to do some serious mods for that part.

For the adapter (first link) I would use that adapter on the crank-up stand, and make a steel plate of 1/4" flat stock that was the size of the socket adapter (no dimensions are given so far) - I would drill and tap 3 holes in this plate, one in the center for a 3/8 x 16 thread bolt to attach the Kessler fluid head to and two more (probably 1/4-20 thread which would be used to fasten the adapter plate just described to the speaker socket adapter.

IOW, from bottom up it would be the crank-up stand, the socket adapter, the home-made plate with 3/8 tapped hole in center, and Kessler's ball mount adapter -

http://www.kesslercrane.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=7&Itemid=40

onto which I would mount the Kessler 8/5 foot crane (til I need a longer reach)

I would use this setup nearly ALWAYS with a fluid head mounted at the camera position, so you can lock the cam/boom in place and use the setup in a more "normal" way, or simply release the locks and use it in boom mode and as a jib.

As I said, this is an ongoing project for me - but hopefully someone can benefit from my inane meanderings... Steve

The carbon adapter head and plate combo beginning to look good.

It seems the 38mm diameter is pretty much standard on most stands.

Manfrotto has a large range of lighting stands and heavy duty support products.

Found a m12 adapter (611-12) on

http://www.manfrotto.com.au/LightingProductsDetail.php?Master_Cat_Code=010&Sub_Cat_Code=120

Not as strong as your carbon number from B-H though ...

check out these stands with wheels...

http://www.manfrotto.com.au/LightingProductsDetail.php?Master_Cat_Code=010&Sub_Cat_Code=130

The B200 looks pricey ....

PIcs od DIY dollies...

http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/greydollies.htm

still no crane on top....

Found one of those at B&H -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=5804&A=details&Q=&sku=332007&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Generally for lighting, goes from about 6 to 12 feet. $600, and only supports just under 20 pounds. Guess it's back to the speaker stands - 5 times the weight support and 1/5 the cost - at that rate, for a penny we should be able to support 12 tons :=) (also, wrong size mount on top of the manfrotto unit, you'd need to find a different adapter to fasten the crane to it.

Some pretty cool projects shown on that other link, thanks... Steve

I'm still looking for a wide-stance dolly with big wheels and full locks

If you want a serioius dolly with wheels and locks that will fill all your expectations including adjustable height that will clear any one sitting down when you're in a tight spot,
consider the EZFX pedestal. It's a bit costly but when it comes to safety this is the real deal. The pedestal is easy to set up and you can easily raise the base to well over five feet with no loss of stability. I have used it on inclines using auto screw jacks to keep it level.
I've use it during church concerts where because of space limitations, the jib is flying over the heads of people sitting in pews a few feet away. Each wheel is seperately able to lock in place in addition to individual wheel locks. The base has a low clearence that is able to slide under obstructions such as seats. I use a full size camera with pan & tilt head and around 100 lbs of weight. Construction is solid with no torquing because of its design. It's worth every dollar invested.
Allen W

Allen, thanks for the suggestion; seems like those run about $1500 - not bad for a pre-made, no DIY needed solution (especially if you need the low profile for sliding under benches as you do) - but for my needs (more industrial oriented) I'll probably end up building a dolly and buying the crane.

Thinking now about a center "spider" to allow all 3 legs to fold together (kind of like a tripod top only simpler), then each horizontal leg would be made of a section of 1-1/4" and a section of 1" .095" wall square tubing, nested inside each other like an auto jack stand - I'd weld plates on the outer ends to fit these

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=1989

(the "B" style in 5")

Then, on the top of each leg where the caster goes, a "U" bracket to allow a custom socket to swivel a bit, drill a hole in each leg of the speaker stand for a locking pin, and I should have a collapsible, transportable dolly/crane that fits easily in my van and goes together fairly quickly.

So far this is all just "brain farts" (haven't started any CAD drawings yet) but when I do, I'll post basic drawings for anyone who's heavy enough into DIY to have access to a welder - I think I can build this (including casters, speaker stand, adapter, MINUS the crane) for around $200-250. (Probably a bit more if I want it powder-coated, I don't have this ability in my shop yet)

It'll end up with about a 48" diameter footprint, adjustable down to probably 36" with lower pedestal heights, and the dolly should weigh around 30 pounds including casters (a VERY rough guess at this point)- it could be made lighter if I were advanced enough to have a TIG welder and the ability to weld aluminum, but it'd also cost more in aluminum.

I'm not sure how soon I'll get started on this, I'm pretty much buried in paying projects ATM - but when I do, I'll start a new thread here with enough details for an experienced DIY type to be able to duplicate/improve it... Steve

BTW - this

http://www.doityourself.com/invt/u505412

is what I'll be using for tying things together - a simple, no-tools approach. If you spread the semi-circular locking spring it pops off the end of the pin so it can be inserted in a hole - these come in several sizes, and to keep rattles to a minimum you can open the locking spring and slide a short piece of either light weight clear plastic tubing over the spring, or a piece of electronic shrink tubing will also work. (Just a "teaser" for anyone who wants to get started instead of waiting for me to do it :=) Steve