Because i'm waiting to buy the HD200, i'm wondering if the super encoder will take the same time to be embedded in all the nle than the "normal" encoder of the HD-100.

Or perhaps i'm wrong, and it yet works ? For Final Cut also ? (perhaps this last question is a joke...)

I've seen that the intermediate codecs don't support it for now. I'm fearing it'll be about the same time.

Well, Avid (not Liquid) still doesn't support HDV1 24 or 25 fps so I wouldn't hold my breath for newer flavours!

Folks, if you are capturing via firewire, it will still be 720p at 8bit 4:2:0 color space. Just really good looking 8bit:4:2:0 video. If you existing setup works, it should work just fine with the new cameras. SDI out, I don't know about.

Folks, if you are capturing via firewire, it will still be 720p at 8bit 4:2:0 color space. Just really good looking 8bit:4:2:0 video. If you existing setup works, it should work just fine with the new cameras. SDI out, I don't know about.
I'm not so sure about that answer (although I hope it's true). I know that Xpress or MCA do not support it and AFAIK the only NLE's that support it right out of the gate are Liquid and FCP (over 1394).

Maybe the Edius/Vegas/PPro groups can assist with information on the subject but I know for sure the Liquid environment supports ProHD 50&60fps via 1394 I/O and import of the raw stuff (m2t) from the Firestore.

I qualified it with 'if your existing system supports it" I was meaning if you can capture and edit from the HD100, then you should (via firewire) do the same with the 200/250. If I'm mistaken, someone please jump in.

I qualified it with 'if your existing system supports it" I was meaning if you can capture and edit from the HD100, then you should (via firewire) do the same with the 200/250. If I'm mistaken, someone please jump in.

The SuperEncoder simply improves quality. What may not be supported by NLEs is the 12-frame GOP with p50 and p60.

For a redundant clarification:

The "Super-Encoder" uses an improved method to create the same m2t files that the HD-100 with it's humble "Clark Kent" encoder created. The method to create the files is different but with the same resulting file type. Whatever frame rate your NLE can take now from the HD-100 will be exactly the same with the HD-200 or 250.

Accepting the new frame rates will be up to the makers of your NLE program or the hard disc recorder manufacturer.

The SuperEncoder simply improves quality. What may not be supported by NLEs is the 12-frame GOP with p50 and p60.

Thanks, I didn't think about that, I guess that could be a problem if 12 GOP is used for everything, not just 60p.

FCP does not support HDV 50p or HDV 60p from the HD250. We tried it at the Worship Facilities Expo last week and even though it controlled the deck via firewire...FCP didn't capture anything. You can capture through HD-SDI with a decklink or kona card...

Donald :)

FCP does not support HDV 50p or HDV 60p from the HD250. We tried it at the Worship Facilities Expo last week and even though it controlled the deck via firewire...FCP didn't capture anything. You can capture through HD-SDI with a decklink or kona card...

Donald :)
That makes me wrong with my comment above.

I guess the only NLE that supports the HD-250 right out of the gate is Liquid (that I know for sure).

Anyone else tried with another NLE?

I guess the only NLE that supports the HD-250 right out of the gate is Liquid (that I know for sure).
Stephen,

Do you know what Avid Liquid officially supports with the JVC cameras?

At DV Expo Friday I asked an Avid rep when the Avid line would support JVCs 24p. I was told that they had no idea, that the codec was a big was very difficult to write software for and, in addition, JVC had changed it from its original specs causing even more problems for the software.

Then I said, so at the moment Liquid is your only product that supports JVC 24p, and the rep nearly jumped on me saying, no, no, no, officially Liquid doesn't have support for 24p or the JVC camera. I mentioned that Liquid does work and he said again, very strongly, that there is no support for the JVC camera in Liquid officially.

After that I asked Anthony Martorina who was demonstrating Liquid. I asked him about 24p support, mentioning that the other guy said that Liquid didn't support it. Anthony said that whatever the other guy said was right.

I mentioned to Anthony that Liquid was bundled with the JVC camera in Europe, and he said he didn't know anything about it. I asked Anthony if there were presets for 24p in Liquid, and he said he didn't know. Then I asked him to look, and he did, and there was a 24p 23.94 preset for the timeline... which I believe is the one you say to use for JVC footage with Liquid.

My question to you is, Stephen, since you have mentioned you have worked with Liquid a long time, do you know what if any of the JVC progressive formats does Liquid _officially_ support?

It is very confusing as to why Avid claims Liquid does not support 24p when it obviously does as shown in your video tutorials. It is even more confusing why Anthony Martorina isn't aware that Liquid will work with the JVC 24p and there are even presets in the software?

Is the support for the JVC codecs somehow incomplete at this point so Avid doesn't want to officially support them? Or is it possible that the support within Liquid for 24p and the JVC camera will be removed or changed with the next service update, which apparently is coming out sometime next year? (From what I have read, features have been removed from Liquid with new updates, such as support for VOB editing.)

Stephen, if you have any info on the Liquid's support for 24 and JVC, it would be helpful. I have narrowed down my choices to Edius NX and Liquid Pro. However, Edius does officially support JVC and 24p but Avid says Liquid doesn't, at least so officially, so it seems it might be unwise to choose Liquid.

To complicate things, I am very possibly going to buy one of the new Sony V1U (shooting 24p 1080) and would want to use this footage together with 24p from the JVC camera. Edius works with the Sony footage, but is there anyway to know if Liquid will? That combined with the fact that 24p JVC is unofficial makes it difficult.

If you use Aspect/Prospect/ConnectHD with PremPro or Vegas all of the new modes have been supported even before the cams shipped.

Thanks for all those answers (haven't access to internet last days).

So if i understand, until now there is no way to edit from an HD250 with FCP directly. Does the Dvhs-Mpegstreamclip workflow works ?

If you use Aspect/Prospect/ConnectHD with PremPro or Vegas all of the new modes have been supported even before the cams shipped.

Cineform seems to always be ahead of the curve. I have ConnectHD and Vegas.

I just received confirmation from Canopus that Edius 4 supports 50p and 60p from the HD250.

At the moment the presets only show up when using an NX or SP card. However, as soon as the switch is pulled the presets will also show up with OHCI.

As I mentioned in another post, Avid Liquid may or may not support the HD250, but as I found out at the recent DV Expo, Liquid absolutely does _not_ officially support even the HD100. If and when Avid Liquid will ever officially support the JVC cameras was not known by the reps at DV expo, but they were quite adamant that Avid Liquid does not support them now. (Yes, Avid Liquid was bundled with the JVC camera in Europe, but the Avid U.S. reps said that they did not know anything about this and could not comment.)

I just received confirmation from Canopus that Edius 4 supports 50p and 60p from the HD250.

At the moment the presets only show up when using an NX or SP card. However, as soon as the switch is pulled the presets will also show up with OHCI.

As I mentioned in another post, Avid Liquid may or may not support the HD250, but as I found out at the recent DV Expo, Liquid absolutely does _not_ officially support even the HD100. If and when Avid Liquid will ever officially support the JVC cameras was not known by the reps at DV expo, but they were quite adamant that Avid Liquid does not support them now. (Yes, Avid Liquid was bundled with the JVC camera in Europe, but the Avid U.S. reps said that they did not know anything about this and could not comment.)

I just received confirmation from Canopus that Edius 4 supports 50p and 60p from the HD250.

At the moment the presets only show up when using an NX or SP card. However, as soon as the switch is pulled the presets will also show up with OHCI.

As I mentioned in another post, Avid Liquid may or may not support the HD250, but as I found out at the recent DV Expo, Liquid absolutely does _not_ officially support even the HD100. If and when Avid Liquid will ever officially support the JVC cameras was not known by the reps at DV expo, but they were quite adamant that Avid Liquid does not support them now. (Yes, Avid Liquid was bundled with the JVC camera in Europe, but the Avid U.S. reps said that they did not know anything about this and could not comment.)

Not quite true. Liquid supports HDV1 in all frame rates. I have demonstrated this over and over again. HDV support for 720p is listed right in the product brochure. I have cut 2 films, 3 documentaries and several corporates and music vids with this setup. I've even displayed how JVC 24p is not even 24p in the 1394 data stream but instead 59.94. Why not get cutting instead of asking the same questions?

Anthony Martorina may not know what's going on in EU. You were welcome to come to Liquid Immersion in Charlotte. There you could have met Hans Venmans who is the Liquid Product Manager and worked with us in HD. There is a chance that JVC and Avid will bundle the camera with Liquid in the states to provide an end to end solution with the camera purchase.

I'm not quite getting why you've got your Liquid setup and yet you're not cutting??? But I'll post the presets again....

Not quite true. Liquid supports HDV1 in all frame rates. I have demonstrated this over and over again. HDV support for 720p is listed right in the product brochure. I have cut 2 films, 3 documentaries and several corporates and music vids with this setup. I've even displayed how JVC 24p is not even 24p in the 1394 data stream but instead 59.94. Why not get cutting instead of asking the same questions?

Anthony Martorina may not know what's going on in EU. You were welcome to come to Liquid Immersion in Charlotte. There you could have met Hans Venmans who is the Liquid Product Manager and worked with us in HD. There is a chance that JVC and Avid will bundle the camera with Liquid in the states to provide an end to end solution with the camera purchase.

I understand that Liquid works with HDV1 from JVC. My point is that the main Avid rep very clearly and repeatedly told me that Avid Liquid does not officially support the JVC video. He went so far as to explain in detail how hard the JVC codec is to work with, etc. I have no argument that Liquid works with HDV1... but the fact remains that Avid distances itself and officially does not support HDV1.

Anthony Martorina deferred to the Avid spokesperson, and Martorina really didn't say anything on his own. He said that whatever the other guy said was the official position on the matter.

As to brochure statements, these are not all true for Liquid, though the support for 720p is, except that the Avid spokesperson said that this doesn't apply to the JVC variant, which he explained was JVCs own formulation and not standard. Whether he meant this only as it applied to 24p, I don't know, but he may have.

However, as you have well demonstrated, Liquid does work with JVC 24p. The fact remains that Avid still makes a big effort to point out that this support for 24p and JVC in general is not _official_.

Perhaps it's a political issue within the company, that they don't officially want any of their products to support JVC 24p until their major products do. The rep did say that maybe Liquid's support for JVC 24p would become official next year, but he added, maybe it won't. I suggested this to the Avid rep, and he said that maybe that was it.

To stay on the topic of this thread, it seems there are at least three editors that can be used for 50p and 60p from the HD250 right now:

1. Avid Liquid (though not officially supported by Avid)
2. Edius 4 with the NX or SP card, and with software only, but the presets aren't turned on yet.
3. With editors that can use Cineform as an intermediary.

But back to the other topic, as you say, "Why not get cutting instead of asking the same questions?" I'll tell you why: If Avid tells me their product doesn't do something, I'm going to believe them. They've got to have a good reason to really empasize the point that something is not _official_. And I'll keep asking the same question until I get an answer. People kept asking when FCP would support 24p... and finally it does. The same question now applies to Avid's products. Until they have an answer, the same question has to be answered. And so about Liquid, I will keep asking if it has support for JVC and 24p... as long as Avid reps keep telling me that Liquid does NOT support JVC and 24p, I will believe them, and I will keep asking hoping the answer will change.

But I'll post the presets again....
yes, when Anthony Martorina brought up the presets, I told him that this one was the one for JVC 24p... and I knew this based on your past posts and exceptional tutorials.

As to brochure statements, these are not all true for Liquid, though the support for 720p is, except that the Avid spokesperson said that this doesn't apply to the JVC variant, which he explained was JVCs own formulation and not standard. Whether he meant this only as it applied to 24p, I don't know, but he may have.

What other 720p HDV camera do you know of out there? The JVC "is" the only 720p camera so of course it is the one that Liquid is made to work with.

I'm not sure why the Avid rep told you otherwise. I think perhaps he was a little confused. There is a big difference between older versions of FCP just not working at all with the format and Liquid working with it but Avid not wanting to say so. Forget about what people tell you and just do it. If it works for you like it does for Stephen then you have nothing to worry about. Who cares if Avid never wants to say it works or not? Take satisfaction in the fact that you are getting more out of the software then what Avid thinks you should be.

Jack,

That Avid rep was just plain wrong. I have both Edius and Liquid (in addition to Xpress Studio Complete and Symphony) and I can tell you with absolutely no hesitation that Liquid does support the HD100. HDV1 is supported at all frame rates and the HD100/200/250 shoot HDV1. In actual use, Liquid works much smoother for ingest of HDV1 than Edius. I wouldn't put too much faith in what reps say at trade shows. One from Avid told me in September 2005 that MC and Xpress would support HDV1 fully in 'two weeks'. Trade show reps are notoriously bad at product knowledge and it's the luck of the draw whom you get talking to. Real world experience from Stephen and countless others proves that Liquid absolutely does support the HD100. I'm in the UK and JVC have been bundling Liquid with the HD100. Surely that's enough to reassure you! In fact, I'm sitting here right now conforming a Media Composer EDL within Liquid from HDV1 via firewire at 25fps and it's working very nicely.

Thanks for all those answers (haven't access to internet last days).

So if i understand, until now there is no way to edit from an HD250 with FCP directly. Does the Dvhs-Mpegstreamclip workflow works ?


Yes, it works I tried it. DVHSCap sees the HD-251 and captures the 720 50p stream and you can convert the mt2 file with MPEGStreamclip.