Those who have the HVR-Z1U (Z1) swear by how good the pictures look. My question is should I be concerned that the camera cannot shoot 720p (let alone 1080p)? I just bought a 1080p set for the living room. What will the video look like from the Z1?

It's probably obvious that I'm very new to this HD thing. In the old days you would just purchase an SD cam (like the PD-170) and call it a day.

What do most people shoot in when they do regular video shoots (similar to TV news or reality tv shows) NOT 24p movie-type filming.

In simple terms, will the Z1 shoot good clear video that will look good on progressive TV sets? I realize that the Z1 is not the perfect camera but can it serve my needs adequately? Will it be outdated in a few years when everyone is shooting progressive?

Thanks for your help.

Interlacing is a legacy technique from the days when TV sets were analog, and transmission datarates were limited by analog scan rates. Now days, with everything going digital, interlacing is totally unnecessary. Why do cameras still do interlaced? because it's always been done that way. IMHO, as soon as everyone in the world has a plasma screen TV, there will be no need for interlaced video.

Bill, thanks.

The decision is whether the Z1 will give me good video anyway or should I go with the Panasonic HVX-200 at considerably more money (when you factor in the cost of P2 cards).

Bill, thanks.

The decision is whether the Z1 will give me good video anyway or should I go with the Panasonic HVX-200 at considerably more money (when you factor in the cost of P2 cards).

The HVX and Z1 are so different, I'm not sure that I'd even compare them to each other. The format, the editing, the storage, the backend, recording times, etc...

Perhaps you could wait a bit and look at the Sony V1. Looks like a really nice camera and with progressive scan. The Canon XH A1 might be worth considering as well. And both are somewhat more affordable than the Z1.

Just a thought...

www.philipwilliams.com

Working with progressive is just so much easier, from that datarates to the ease of greenscreen work. Whenever we work on web based video it is all progressive. And yes the world viewing experience is going progressive.
Plus all the DVD's I have produced lately are viewed on computers.
Panasonic has a special right now. FREE 8 gig P2 card if the HVX is purchased before Dec. 31st.

Wait a month and get the V1U instead is your worried about "p" but want a sony.

Will 1080i look good on a 1080p set? Well, if you think HD material broadcasted on major networks look good then the answer is "yes". Most stations broadcast in 1080i and they look great.

Will 1080i be as good as 1080p? No. But it will still be an amazing looking picture. Getting a 1080p TV set is smart, you're future proofing.

The HVX is a cool camera... but I don't know how people can afford to own that thing. I mean, first off, the camera is considerably more than the Z1U or V1U. Second, the P2 cards are insane. Oh sure, Panasonic is offering a free 8 gig card. Wow... now I can record **8 minutes** of HD video. What next? Buy another 8 minute card for over a thousand bucks? Yeah, you could immediately transfer the footage to your 500GB hard drive, but what about archiving? I love being able to have hundreds of miniDV tapes that I can always go back to. They're so cheap!

60 minute tape for $2.79, or an 8 minute card for $1299? Hmmmmmm.......

Archiving will be on BlueRay at 25GBytes or 50 GBytes. I'll go for random access from a computer disk anyday, and the disks will be faster to copy than miniDV. Also, the verify function will tell you the quality of your archive.

Though, still, BlueRay burners are above $700 .

The HVX is a cool camera... but I don't know how people can afford to own that thing. I mean, first off, the camera is considerably more than the Z1U or V1U. Second, the P2 cards are insane. Oh sure, Panasonic is offering a free 8 gig card. Wow... now I can record **8 minutes** of HD video. What next? Buy another 8 minute card for over a thousand bucks? Yeah, you could immediately transfer the footage to your 500GB hard drive, but what about archiving? I love being able to have hundreds of miniDV tapes that I can always go back to. They're so cheap!
.......

Bear in mind that you can record 20 mins on a P2 card if you use 720pnative mode. But, you still don't have a means of archiving your master, and you still have all those pins being pushed in/out. 720p doesn't look bad when upsampled to 1080i, but (subjectively) I prefer 1080i to 720p upsampled to 1080i/p.
Additionally, BD (BluRay) now offers over 200GB of storage in multilayers as data disc, at 70ms.

I think the HVX is targetted at the indy film maker, and if you think about it, a 400ft roll of 16mm film will only last for about 12 minutes or so, so if you have transitioned yourself from film to P2 then you will have no problems, as an assistant camera operator or clapper/loader, loading p2 is a walk the park compared to loading film.

So will the 1080i cameras (Z1, et al) still be relevant in a few years or will it be the equivalent of having a hi-8 camera today? Sure my old hi-8 camera still works but I would never use it for anything a client would see.

Is that not a good analogy? I am not opposed to purchasing a new camera in say 3-4 years but I don't want to purchase a new one next year because I'm already behind the curve.

Thoughts?

I suggest you find a local dealer and "test drive" some cameras.
In 3-4 years it will be hard to find an interlaced set around to view interlaced video. All the talk of broadcasters using 1808i is only relevant to the few who actually produce broadcast work. Even then most of the higher end shows are shot VariCam or CineAlta - progressively......wait until after RED is released and you can probably get a 60i HDCAM for real cheap.

Ok, question. With a standard everyday DVD player found in millions of homes across the globe, Can you shoot, edit and still deliver for that medium using a progressive scan video? Meaning, if you make your final video in Progressive mode, output it to DVD, can any run of the mill DVD player play that back without noticing? Pardon my ignorance but I would like to know how all of that works.

Ok, question. With a standard everyday DVD player found in millions of homes across the globe, Can you shoot, edit and still deliver for that medium using a progressive scan video? Meaning, if you make your final video in Progressive mode, output it to DVD, can any run of the mill DVD player play that back without noticing? Pardon my ignorance but I would like to know how all of that works.

Yes. Most Hollywood DVD are edited and encoded as 24p progressive....
Progressive video looks great on interlaced or progressive displays.
Video shot and edited 29.97 interlaced do not look that good on progressive displays (LCD, plasma, computer displays).

So what you are saying is that no matter what project I di, I should deinterlace it and do everything in progressive mode? Regardless of whether the end user will view it on LCD, Plasma, Computer OR Standard CRT Televisions?

So what you are saying is that no matter what project I di, I should deinterlace it and do everything in progressive mode? Regardless of whether the end user will view it on LCD, Plasma, Computer OR Standard CRT Televisions?

That is entirely up to you. When my clients where viewing VHS tapes on regular old CRT TV's and then DVD's....everything was fine. Then they started viewing the DVD's on laptop computers before I even had one.
They wondered why the DVD's looked fine at home but when they went to show them for a business meeting the motion always looked "funny".
It was interlaced artifacts. Ever since then I have been shooting and editing progressively. All the web videos always had to be de-interlaced.
Do some testing and figure out what is best for your deliverables.

I think the HVX is targetted at the indy film maker, and if you think about it, a 400ft roll of 16mm film will only last for about 12 minutes or so, so if you have transitioned yourself from film to P2 then you will have no problems, as an assistant camera operator or clapper/loader, loading p2 is a walk the park compared to loading film.

Having worked as a film loader and a P2 assistant, I've found that P2 loading/downloading is more stressful than loading film. For the following reasons:
1. Even though the P2 loads are similar to 16mm film loads in terms of shooting time, the fact that it's video means that people still shoot as if it's a 60-min tape. So not only are you downloading cards at a much higher rate but also you could potential run out of storage space.
2. With P2 there's not any well-established workflow for now to deal with the data. Some people download to P2Store, others to redundant RAID arrays and others just to a laptop. Whereas with film you wrap the cans with black 1" and stack 'em.

As for the original question, Z1U vs. HVX. It's really comes down to whether the stuff you shoot requires progressive.

I think the HVX is targetted at the indy film maker, and if you think about it, a 400ft roll of 16mm film will only last for about 12 minutes or so, so if you have transitioned yourself from film to P2 then you will have no problems, as an assistant camera operator or clapper/loader, loading p2 is a walk the park compared to loading film.

That's an argument I have listening for too long. I come from film, probably old times for most of you.

In film school we still shot in B&W with spring-loaded Bolex cameras, which lasted even less. It was awfull. Of course you adjust to very short takes, but it's a pain having to do so.

When you could afford a motor for the Bolex, or even the 120m mag, it was glory. You could do long takes, with pans, movements and so on.

I think 8/10 minute "rolls" or cards are good for fiction projects, where you have some control over your subjects. They stink for documentary.

The great thing for documentaries, the great turn, was when video begun being transferred to film. Even if you used Betacam cameras, you had 30 minutes tapes. With 60 minutes or so for DV you are in heaven!

These are gains we have been having that now the HVX100 wants to take back, and I don't like it.

It's like editing: moviolas were awful. Is there anyone there who would trade an editing desk for a Kem?

But... and there is a big but here to think of. One thing limits teach you is how to take some advantage from them. In this case I think you learn to put a great value in synthesis. How can I tell things in a shorter time? How I can tell things in 30-seconds, or in two minutes? Or how I can best use my 8 minutes?

This concept may seem too obvious, but it's not. Perhaps is the main lesson to take from P2 8 minutes.

But that doesn't mean we can't be synthetic and still have 60-minute rolls. I also think it's too expensive. The new Panasonic pro cameras come with slots for four P2s, which would be 32 minutes... and more than $4,000!

Still a very expensive bet, IMHO. I will take a serious look on P2 based cameras when cards get much cheaper. Until then tapes or other longer/cheaper media for me.


Carlos

I have seen shooters that will start shooting interviews with 30 min BetaSP tapes and never stop the tape. I have seen some shooters that never get enough pre-roll. If you approach P2 with the film/tape analogy then it does get hard to wrap you head around it. I know one HVX200 shooter who has the 4 gig cards but always shoots using the DV deck. He is an old BetaSP shooter who has to have tape. Funny thing is out of 60 min of DV tape he only shoots about 10 min of usable material.....So I have to sit and roll through the tape and digitize to DV and then he wonders why the greenscreen set-ups don't look good!!!

I think the HVX is targetted at the indy film maker, and if you think about it, a 400ft roll of 16mm film will only last for about 12 minutes or so, so if you have transitioned yourself from film to P2 then you will have no problems, as an assistant camera operator or clapper/loader, loading p2 is a walk the park compared to loading film.


Sorry, that's not a good analogy. If you shot film you may get about the same time per cartridge, but you don't have to immediately process that film and put it back into the camera. With the P2, you have to be constantly and quickly downloading the footage to some computer. Don't make a mistake either!