http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/blackmagic_to_demo_intensity_video_card_at_dv_expo/

So Here it is, HDMI into a Laptop, correct.
Does the HDMI out of the Vu1 bypass the HDV compression?
CAN WE GET LOSSLESS (UN)COMPRESSED OUT OF THE SONY V1 into a loaptop running Cineform or Sheer Lossless compression?

Is that what I am hearing?

"CalDigit says that, at DV Expo in Los Angeles, Nov. 16, Dan May, president of Blackmagic Design will demonstrate the Blackmagic Design Intensity video capture card and the CalDigit S2VR HD capturing uncompressed footage directly from a HDV camcorder via HDMI. He’ll demonstrate the use of the new Intensity card at 4:15 p.m. in Room #301A.??CalDigit will be showing the line of low cost S2VR SATA II 3Gb/s RAID products and PCIe (all of which are Mac Pro compatible) and PCIx controller cards, as well as the brand new CalDigit FASTA-1ex SATA II to ExpressCard/34 for MacBook Pro. This card enables you to capture, develop, edit and create content in almost any environment on the go, when using Apple’s new MacBook Pro. ?"

The Intensity is a PCIe card so you'll need a desktop. That article mentions the laptop only in regards to an eSata express card.

You should be able to get 4:2:2 uncompressed from the V1's HDMI port using Intensity which is pre-MPEG2 compression. I've seen a sample from an HC3 and it's pretty dang nice. Where there were nasty compression artifacts from the HDV files there was only silky smooth pixels in the Intensity capture.

Yup. I plan on getting one. I also corresponded with BM support about component connections, as the HC1 lacks HDMI, and was told that it's possible using an adaptor, and that component has the advantage in regards to long cable runs. HDMI still has the advantage being all digital, and 5.1 surround sound being embedded in the signal.

I was drooling over a portable alternative,
not yet...
(whoever does this first, so you can choose Cineform/sheer lossless compression is gonna make a killing)

I know for a fact that one capture card manufacturer is looking into laptop expresscard HDMI capture. I cannot say anymore without revealing my source.

TT

I really hope so !
With all these (pro)sumer Canon HD-SDI & Sony HDMI cameras you would assume...

Who needs a laptop solution? I have 110 Amphours of AGM lead-acid batteries and a power inverter! Movie studio on a handtruck...

Who needs a laptop solution? I have 110 Amphours of AGM lead-acid batteries and a power inverter! Movie studio on a handtruck...

ha,ha... history repeating itself... brings back memories when you had to handtruck the VCR recorder around hooked up to the Camera...

http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html

What sort of storage requirements will you meet when recording direct HDMI? and has anyone worked with another camera that has HDMI out? If so, I'd be curious if the HDMI raw output really beats that camera's recorded output. it should, shouldn't it? Can this be leading to a break through recorder with something professional akin to the consumer/iPod H.264 $79 on the fly hardware compressor mentioned here?

http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/ads-instantvideo-togo-accelerates-ipod-and-psp-video-encoding-215980.php

oh, please, oh please... :-)

What Sony should have done is put two connections on the HDR60 ...

one connection of firewire, so it could be used with other cam's
and another connection of HDMI, so it could pull the video off of Sony's
HDMI equiped cam's...

Now that would have blown the competition out of the water...

maybe there's still hope, someone come up with a HDMI to firewire convertion
cable....

Yes Ray, I'm 100% with you... The problem is that Sony in this case wouldn't sell any XDCCAM models anymore... The reason why you don't have yet an easy and cheap way to record HD uncompressed is to protect their more expansive and professional lines...

For Alex, here's some info about the storage (found on the Blackmagic site):

525 NTSC uncompressed;
8 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 20 MB per/sec, or 70 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 27 MB per/sec, or 94 GB per/hr.

625 PAL uncompressed;
8 bit @ 720 x 576 @ 25fps = 20 MB per/sec, or 70 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 720 x 576 @ 25fps = 26 MB per/sec, or 93 GB per/hr.

720p HDTV uncompressed;
8 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 105 MB per/sec, or 370 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 140 MB per/sec, or 494 GB per/hr.

1080i and 1080p HDTV uncompressed;
8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 95 MB per/sec, or 334 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 127 MB per/sec, or 445 GB per/hr.

8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 99 MB per/sec, or 348 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 132 MB per/sec, or 463 GB per/hr.

8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 119 MB per/sec, or 417 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 158 MB per/sec, or 556 GB per/hr.

1080i and 1080p HDTV RGB (4:4:4) uncompressed;
10 bit @ 1280 x 720p @ 60fps = 211 per/sec, or 742 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24PsF = 190 per/sec, or 667 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 50i = 198 per/sec, or 695 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 60i = 237 per/sec, or 834 GB per/hr.

I read in an other post that this camera outputs 4:2:2 1440x1080 through HDMI. Spot, are you sure of this ? Not 1920x1080 ? Apparently the captors deliver this size.

I'm not sure how many people would capture uncompressed even if possible as the amount of data to store (and more importantly backup) would get pretty difficult to work with.

A pragmatic solution would be to capture to a high quality intermediate codec. For the price of a laptop with HDMI Expresscard34, FW 800 storage and cineformesque codec a mini wafian recorder would be created.

I wouldn't want to march it round all the time but in a studio environment it would be distinctly useful. I'd have one right away.

TT

The Intensity card seems to allow you to capture with their new JPEG codec. I tried to convert some files with this codec, they seemed a little soft, probably my fault... Another solution would be to capture uncompressed and then to convert to the Avid DNxHD codec, which is great.

I read in an other post that this camera outputs 4:2:2 1440x1080 through HDMI. Spot, are you sure of this ? Not 1920x1080 ? Apparently the captors deliver this size.

Re-read my post more carefully; the camera takes the 1440x1080 image and resizes it to 1920x1080 on output. The source for HDMI is after DSP, pre compressor. In other words, HDMI is 1920x1080 out, but the source for it is converted back up to 1920 after being processed at 1440.

Additionally, HDMI to firewire is much more than just a cable. It's a full-on conversion process, and the question then becomes "what are you sending down the Firewire/iLink/1394 cable? If it's mpeg, the best you can hope for is a better encoder/bitrate. Either way, it's also a format conversion from 1920 x 1080, 4:2:2 uncompressed to some other format going down firewire vs being converted in a relatively large box. Miranda, BMD, Convergent Design have all announced converters, but they're not "small."

Thanks Douglas ! Do you think capturing uncompressed 1920x1080 this way could compete with HDCAM, if we use a 35mm adapter for a better dof ?

Thanks Douglas ! Do you think capturing uncompressed 1920x1080 this way could compete with HDCAM, if we use a 35mm adapter for a better dof ?
In terms of the stream, yes, because it's effectively the same information. In terms of quality, no, because you're still working with 2/3" sensors vs 1/4" sensors, and the relative difference in glass is significant. You can't buy any kind of HD lens for a 2/3" camera even in a used format (that I've ever heard of) for the approximate cost of a new V1 or Z1. Quality HD glass is very expensive, which is why for example, you'd pay around 5k for a JVC HDV body, and 12K for a lens. At that point, might as well step up to XDCAM HD, as you'd get good glass and a 1/2" imager.
As you start looking at uncompressed capture and get all excited about what it *could* do, bear in mind that we've been able to capture 4:2:2 uncompressed out of virtually any DVcamcorder for years, converting to SDI, and bringing it into the NLE as 8 or 10bit 4:2:2 SD. Why haven't more people been doing it?
Cost.
By the time you configure a fast RAID 0, have a system capable of processing the data, etc, you're easily double or more the cost of the camcorder. That *must* be part of your system cost consideration. So, 5K cam, 10K RAID/'puter, etc, might as well be looking at a lesser computer, smaller RAID (if any RAID at all) and XDCAM HD at that point. Certainly worth considering, given the quality difference.

Yes... I don't know if using a 35mm adapter will "override" the limitations of 1/4" sensors. Capturing via HD-SI is still very expensive, far less with this Intensity card. Sure Raid systems are still very costy... maybe by using the appropriate codec we talked about... it's worth a try, at least !

Thanks Douglas (for your V1 samples too !)