What in your opinion is an ideal compact camera to use as a B-Camera with the 350? ........Z1u?, HVX200?, XHA1?, Sony A1u?,V1? Which camera after some post would make a useable B-Cam for XDcam HD..... lets say for example if you were shooting something with hopes to sell to Discovery HD? Thanks again

Brian.

hmmmm..... no takers on this thread!? Well, I guess it would be hard to say. There are a bunch of new Cameras coming out, probably all of which could be usable! I'm kind of leaning towards this new camera from sony... the HVR-V1U.... it looks intriguing. True 24p would match nicely when shooting in this format, nice reach on the lens (20X), long battery life (970), light (3 lbs)...... I kind of laughed to myself when an article i read said the it resolves 800 lines on a resolution chart. I'd like to see that with mine own eyes! Anyways i'm kind of between this camera (V1U and a Canon XHA1.

Brian, since all the 1/3" HD/HDV cameras will already have a smaller image (not in pixels, but compared to what the bigger lens & CCDs give you), I'd make that decision based on what will incorporate best into your NLE workflow with the XDcam.

Brian, since all the 1/3" HD/HDV cameras will already have a smaller image (not in pixels, but compared to what the bigger lens & CCDs give you), I'd make that decision based on what will incorporate best into your NLE workflow with the XDcam.

Thanks Benjamin, I should say also that I am currently working with Premiere Pro... an NLE that will not hold up very well with the XDCam..... so with that in mind I am also looking to upgrade my NLE. I am looking at Either a Mac Pro setup (latest FCP) or go to Vegas 7, which is cheaper but I'm willing to go for the Mac setup.I also understand that there is a new update that deals pretty good with the 24f mode by Canon. So i can cut the 2 different footages together on the same time line. So in a sense I am also weighing in the B-camera factor in making a decision on my next NLE workflow!

I think the new V1 might work well for you since as you probably know, each mfgr's camera offerings have a 'look' to them. So with that in mind, I'm hoping that a smaller Sony camera would cut together with the XDCAM using less correction to match the shots.

-gb-

I'd say a V1 as it does both 1080i and 1080p just like F350; only HDV of course. But at least you have the option of shooting interlace or progressive with both cams then.

I think the new V1 might work well for you since as you probably know, each mfgr's camera offerings have a 'look' to them. So with that in mind, I'm hoping that a smaller Sony camera would cut together with the XDCAM using less correction to match the shots.

-gb-

I know what you mean by the "look".... thats the one thing i'm thinking about when comparing these 2 cameras.... I honestly do not like the "look" of the Canon XL/XH footage, that said though i'm sure with the tonnes of settings you can tailor it to look the way you want.... but i just don't seem to like what i'm seeing with that camera, I'm very interested to see what more V1 footage looks like...... I did see the footage that is currently posted (guy with the parachute).... it looks good, but i'd like to see more..... I think you are right, that the V1 may match the XDcam the best.

I think of other issues when it comes to B camera. For instance, they keep saying the V1 rolls it's 24p into 29.97 with pulldown. If that's true, then at the codec level, the F350/330 are incompatible. You'd have to remove pulldown on the V1 material before you would want to put them on the same timeline.

BUT, despite what everybody says about that camera (pulldown method), my money is just that it's all confusion and the V1 writes 24p to tape just like the Canons and the JVCs, using repeat flags so there's no recompression needed to remove the pulldown.

Anyway, my vote for my producer to get a B camera was going to be the Canon A1, with the Sony V1 being a close second. I have XLH-1 material on my drive that I've intercut with the 350...with a little tweaking they cut very well.

I have been using the FX1 with the 350 and the editors seem to love it. they say it has the same "look" without a lot of tweaking. Some but not alot of tweaking. I will have to say that the show is being edited with Smoke. So their editorial tools are extreme and more then likely not have any problems in dealing with the two formats. Premiere Pro with the Cineform Prospect setup would solve your problems. You also do not need an extensive Hard Drive setup with Prospect. now if you are interested in the FAM workflow with the XDCAM 350 you would not be happy with the Prospect setup. Although Cineform says that they are going to add the Fam workflow as soon as there seems to be enough people who are looking for it. Since you have will to log and capture the B camera stuff then maybe that workflow doesn't work for you.

My 2Cents
Get a Premiere Prospect setup and put your money you would save into more produciton gear. Or go out to dinner for a few months.

regarding workflow, you could most likely just drop both formats on a 24p timeline in Vegas 7 and it will work perfectly.

Note that I have not done this personally, but Vegas handles everything else this way so you might be lucky...

I use a Z1 with my F350 and the pictures have a very similar look. The canon H1 looks quite different. The Z1 is useful for me as I do a large mix of 30fps and 25fps work.

I use a Z1 with my F350 and the pictures have a very similar look. The canon H1 looks quite different. The Z1 is useful for me as I do a large mix of 30fps and 25fps work.


So how does one add Z1 footage to F350 24p footage? Do you have to deinterlace the Z1 stuff? and then add it to the 24p timeline? and what extra software would you need? what would you recommend shooting in with the Z1? 50i? 60i? I'm sure you would stay away from using cineframe 24, 30! If you can shed some light, that would be very helpful.... because i'm thinking maybe the Z1 would be a very nice B-cam but i just want to know what else i may need to be able to use the Z1 with the 350 in 24p.

To add to Matthew's post above, I have had some exchanges with David Newman on the Cineform subsection of this forum, and he said that if ten XDCAM HD users contacted him, that would get them to develop a capability in Prospect for the 35 Mb/sec XDCAM HD codec. Contact David, this would be a really cool way to handle XDCAM HD material.

This should get you to the proper forum, or just navigate from here. Pick one of David's posts and this will enable you to send him an e-mail.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=76

Tip McPartland

If I had to deliver in 24P and had no option other than to use the Z1 then I would shoot 25P on the F350 and 50i on the Z1 (or maybe CCF 25, it's not as bad as some make out) and edit in a 25P timeline. It depends on the NLE you use as to whether you need to de-interlace the 50i footage first. When my edit was complete I would do a 4% slow down to get 24P.

That's one route the other would be to shoot 24P on the F350 and 50i on the Z1 then slow down the Z1 footage by 4%. However this won't work if you need the cameras to run in sync.

The Z1 isn't the perfect companion to the F350 but in terms of overall look and colourimetry it's very good.

If I had to deliver in 24P and had no option other than to use the Z1 then I would shoot 25P on the F350 and 50i on the Z1 (or maybe CCF 25, it's not as bad as some make out) and edit in a 25P timeline. It depends on the NLE you use as to whether you need to de-interlace the 50i footage first. When my edit was complete I would do a 4% slow down to get 24P.

That's one route the other would be to shoot 24P on the F350 and 50i on the Z1 then slow down the Z1 footage by 4%. However this won't work if you need the cameras to run in sync.

The Z1 isn't the perfect companion to the F350 but in terms of overall look and colourimetry it's very good.


In your opinion Alister, which camera would be the most ideal companion for the F350?

At one point in time I had in my hands at the same moment, A Sony Z1, Canon XL-H1, JVC HD101, Sony HC1 plus my F350. These are the cameras I know and can comment on.

The XL-H1 is an excellent camera, but it has a quite different look to the F350. Also as a B camera it's a bit big and bulky, so I sold it.

The JVC HD101 is a good camera (IMHO) but not in the same league as the Canon H1, again has a very different looking picture to the F350, so I don't use it for shooting, just to ingest a clients 720P footage.

The HC1 is a really amazing camera. Can't belive how good the pictures are from such a small cam. However manual control is all but impossible and no XLR audio I/O, so I just use this for covert/discreet shooting or as a backup.

The Z1 is my prefered B camera. The pictures have a very similar look to the F350. It can shoot both 50i and 60i (important for me). If I really need progressive then it can do that too (just about). No it's not perfect, if it could do proper 24P, 25P and 30P then that would be even better, but at the moment for me the Z1 offers the right combination of picture quality, frame rates and features.

If you don't neeed the ability to switch between 25i and 30i then maybe one of the new Sony V1's would be better.

The Sony HC3 can be a GREAT B-cam if...

You need nightvision, or a crash cam (its only about $1000), or you need a REALLY tiny cam... its not that much bigger than a lipstick - almost, I mean you can hide it anywhere, get crazy shots from where no other camera can fit... ultimate helmet cam

Thanks for the response Alister.... Right now, i'm between the Z1 and the V1.... I think both cameras would be very good but i'll have to wait to find out more on the V1. What interests me about the V1 is its small, light weight, long battery life, long lens, 24p/30p.....on the other hand the Z1 has great low light performance, a nice wide lens, great LCD and has been tested (its been around for awhile). I wonder how the image quality of the two cameras compare to each other? Do you think that the V1 will have higher resolution? I read a review and they said that they tested the camera (V1) on a test chart and it resolved 800 tv lines.... so, i wonder if it really outperforms the Z1? that would be interesting to know for sure.

looking around various forums I don't think there is much to choose between the Z1 and V1 in terms of resolution and general picture quality. The Z1 is almost certainly more sensitive than the V1 but the V1 has a true progressive mode. I get 3 hours + from the batteries on my Z1 so have no issues there.

HC3 is a great compact performer, but no sensible audio input only that daft hot shoe thing. It's not that mauch smaller than the HC1 esp. if you take the lens hood off the HC1.