Does anyone know if Sony is coming out with new deck for the V1?
thanks
jack

I'm not 100% sure, but take a look at www.sony.com/hdv to see what's on the horizon. Like the DVX100a, there is a pulldown which keeps the 24p look, but puts it into a 60i stream. Which means any Sony camera or deck can actually play back and record (if the footage in an NLE is 24p/V1u) stuff from the camera/timeline.

I hear Vegas will be able to remove the pulldown shortly, and I'll bet dollars to donuts the other NLE guys and gals will follow suit.

heath

None of the decks Sony has on display have 1080p options, everything is 1080i. Seems to me they are going to need a new deck to accomadate 1080p24 and 30
jack

None of the decks Sony has on display have 1080p options, everything is 1080i. Seems to me they are going to need a new deck to accomadate 1080p24 and 30
jack
Jack,

Don't forget what I mentioned above...it's a progressive signal put into a 60i stream, much like the DVX100 series, and other cameras, actually. The pulldown (which does the signal into the stream) can be removed to get a progressive signal (again, soon I feel every NLE will allow this to happen the closer we get to release).

heath

It's not expected/anticipated/necessary. This is one of the benefits of pulldown being inserted; it allows the tape to play from any deck. The NLE will remove the pulldown either on capture, or from the timeline.

It's not expected/anticipated/necessary. This is one of the benefits of pulldown being inserted; it allows the tape to play from any deck. The NLE will remove the pulldown either on capture, or from the timeline.
Thanks for the follow-up, Spot.

heath

It's not expected/anticipated/necessary. This is one of the benefits of pulldown being inserted; it allows the tape to play from any deck. The NLE will remove the pulldown either on capture, or from the timeline.

Ah - an NLE will, but will a 1080P monitor? And does Sony have a deck with HDMI or DVI? (I'm not really familiar with the Sony HDV decks) I think there could be demand for a new deck for production facilities with these requirements. I'm not sure if you can remove the pulldown from the analogue outs?

Remember, first the camera, then the demand, finally the deck. But who knows what's up anyone's sleeves?

heath

Hi guys;
If I shoot in 1080p, I want to edit in 1080p and master back to 1080p.
Right now no Sony deck does that. I assume you can play 1080p out of the camera into the NLE but what do I master to?
jack

First, HDV isn't a delivery format; you need HDCAM or other delivery format for HD to broadcast. Additionally, HDV isn't the ideal mastering format. You likely want to master to a 4:2:2 YUV format for both delivery and archival purposes.

Second, the 24p/30p are carried in a stream that any Sony HDV deck or camera can read, as the information is deciphered by the NLE system, not by hardware.

Hi
Of course mastering to a high end format is best but in a low budget studio its more partical to master to HDV and then have the HDV master bumped to a high end format properly at a facility with all the equipment. In fact very much like you would do if you shot a low budget feature on 16 and bumped it to 35.
SO if I understand what you are saying, any Sony HDV deck will play the 1080p and I will be abble to caputure it in my NLE as 1080p. I'll edit in 1080p and then I'll output to hard drive or something or back to the camera because none of the Sony HDV decks can record 1080p
SO is that the answer?

Couldn't you just lay it back to tape via the camera? If it records the 1080p signal from the CCD, surely it does the same if it's in VCR mode, right?

Hi Brian;
Sure I can lay back to the camera. But on a camera HDV casstte you can only record an hour of programing. So for a feature or anything longer you'd have put it on two cassettes. Of course a minor problem. But a deck that could hold larger cassttes would make it all that much easier. Bottom line no one seems to know if Sony is coming out with a new deck to accomadate the new features of the V1.
j

As said earlier in this same forum, sony just released new decks, and according to their engineering and marketing teams, there are no immediate plans to release new decks to "match" the V1 ability, simply because they don't need to. If you want longer record times, then get an M25U, as it provides up to 200+ minutes of record time. Just that you can't deliver it anywhere. No broadcaster will accept it, as they don't have the gear. HDCAM and D5 are common delivery formats for broadcast.

As stated earlier; the M25U Sony deck does not record in 1080p. Therefore if I want to stay in 1080p I have to record back to the camera.

And I will repeat it is earier to master to HDV and take that HDV master to a proper facility and have them bump it to HDCAM or D5.
J

As stated earlier; the M25U Sony deck does not, and I repeat does record in 1080P. Does not record in 1080p. Therefore if I want to stay in 1080p I have to record back to the camera.

And I will repeat it is earier to master to HDV and take that HDV master to a proper facility and have them bump it to HDCAM or D5.
J

Print to the M25U with pulldown, as that's the only way to print to HDV with progressive information. The camera doesn't work any differently than does the deck. Feel free to check out your V1U that you apparently have handy.
Rendering to HDV for upconversion to D5 or HDCAM is simply a bad idea, bad workflow, and bad for your video quality. And is more difficult than rendering it once, properly the first time. Render your HDV timeline to 4:2:2 YUV format in whatever compression scheme your service bureau recommends, deliver to them on a hard drive, let them output to HDCAM for you. It's a standard budget workflow, and prevents your media from suffering loss due to recompressed MPEG regardless of what application you work in.

If the camera doesn't work any different then the deck then way isn't it stated on Sony's website that the deck also records in 1080p? So what am I to believe your interputation or what Sony states on their website. You can be sure it their deck could record 1080p, they'd say it.
You seem to be missing the point on work flow but thats not surprising you seem to be missing the bigger point that Sony is not and is not planning to come out with a deck that records 1080P.
j

If the camera doesn't work any different then the deck then way isn't it stated on Sony's website that the deck also records in 1080p? So what am I to believe your interputation or what Sony states on their website. You can be sure it their deck could record 1080p, they'd say it.
You seem to be missing the point on work flow but thats not surprising you seem to be missing the bigger point that Sony is not and is not planning to come out with a deck that records 1080P.
j

Jack, you apparently do not understand how the V1 encodes. I am aware of how the V1 encodes. A progressive deck is not required for ingest/output. There is no need for a progressive deck either for print. Were we talking about 1080p60, then we'd be having a different discussion, but given that HDV currently cannot acquire 1080p60, and that the 24p and 30p streams are embedded in a 60i stream, there is no need for a progressive deck, ergo Sony's lack of releasing a new deck so soon after launching the M15 and M25.

Douglass is correct about going to film--send the lab a hard drive with whatever they want on it. I did a video-to-35mm transfer (DSR500WS footage edited in Avid) a year or so with DVFilm in Austin (they did the conversion, lab in L.A. did the print) and they wanted a firewire drive with an Avid QT of the program. Presumably you could do an uncompressed QT too.

I only want to know if the deck has the ability to record in 1080p. What you're saying is that the deck will be able to read the HDV 1080p signal. What I want to know is will the deck record to tape as 1080p and play it back as 1080p or will it record it as 1080i and play it back as 1080i. The Sony website only indicates 1080i and saids nothing about 1080p.
I would think Sony would be the first to state if any of their decks could record and playback 1080p.

Jack,

Let's try this a different way;

The progressive information is embedded in a 60i stream. The decks record a 60i stream. The decks play back a 60i stream, with the progressive information in the 60i stream.

The NLE will extract the progressive information from the 60i stream. If you wish to print to a progressive format, you either print back to the deck with pulldown, or you render to a 4:2:2 YUV format be it Quicktime, Blackmagic, Bitjazz, or whatever other codec you wish to use, store the resulting file on a hard drive, send it to a service bureau, and have them print that to HDCAM or D5, or whatever your 24p format is going to be delivered on.

Or, you can send the same drive to a film-out facility and they'll print that file to film.

There is no HDV deck that records a 1080p stream, as the decks don't need to record a 1080p stream given the technology used to record the progressive information in a 1080 HDV stream. Therefore, Sony isn't going to say that their decks record a 1080p stream, because the decks don't record a 1080p stream, but rather a 1080i stream with progressive information embedded in the stream.

So to sum up:

~Sony does not make an HDV deck that records nor reads a pure 1080 stream.
~Sony does not make an HDV camcorder that records nor reads a pure 1080 stream.
~Sony does make an HDV camcorder that records a pure progressive stream embedded in a 60i stream.

Hopefully this clarifies the question for you.

So the the deck records the 60i stream with progressive 1080p info but unlike the camera it cannot playback the 1080p info or rather it cannot extract the progressive info from the 60i stream. It can only playback 1080i.
So Sony may say they don't need a new deck but if the camera can do something the deck cannot do, they need a new deck.
j

They don't *need* a new deck. You *would like* another deck.

Reading your previous posts in this thread you want a deck for storage. The
current decks, that indeed do 1080i, will accommodate you perfectly.

As Douglas as explained you don't need a 1080p deck for storage and retrieval
of a 1080p signal. You can do that perfectly on a 1080i deck.

Now if you want to hook it up for playback to a 1080p capable screen or
projector then you might want a 1080p player. But I'm betting that you can't
see the difference (on playback) between a 1080p signal embedded in a 1080i
stream versus a real 1080p playback.

To summarize, you can do what you asked to do: archive your 1080p movie.

And, as the camera comes out, the NLEs will likely start to release updates that remove the pulldown. This is all very similar to the DVX100 and Canon XL2 series of cameras, how the technology works by imbedding the 1080p signal into an interlace stream.

heath