These may have been answered someplace else on here but I haven't been able to find them. I'm wondering if the XH A1 will downconvert from HDV to DV in camera--ie., can you record in HDV but play back the tape as DV if you want to do an edit that way?

Also, can you shoot 24F in DV mode if you want or is that strictly an HDV thing?

Oh yeah, one more...I believe I read it has repeatable focus like the Z1, but does it give the readout in feet/meters or in meaningless numbers?

Thanks.

24f and 30f both work in SD

the focus setting can show feet.inch/percentage numbers

not sure about in camera downconvert, but most likely

Thanks.

Well...this is interesting. I just posted the above message, "Thanks."

But it wouldn't post. Instead, it sent me to a screen saying the post had to be at least 10 characters long.

No one word replies. Unless it's a big word.

Bill, yes, you can record in HDV and playback/output standard def simultaneously.

Or, if in post, your video was recorded in HDV, the camcorder, A1 or G1, will downconvert to SD if you choose.

Best Regards,
Scott Cantrell
TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser

Thanks again. Now, if Canon only made a deck that would play back 24F, I wouldn't be able to find a thing wrong with this camera.

Now, if Canon only made a deck that would play back 24F...It's called the HV10

Yeah, I know, and it has a lens on it. Sometimes I gaffertape a TRV900 to my DVCAM deck and call it a camera.:) I guess that's better than nothing. Has it been verified that it will play back 24F?

Did you know that the Sony HDV deck is actually just a glorified Z1 camcorder transport?

Yeah, and it's not particualry worth the $3000! Has trouble with Canon's SD 24p form the XL2... poop to drop outs!

Now, you cannot export 24F back to tape... so can you embed 24f in a 60i timeline without it looking retarded?

What decks are you guys looking at for the A1/G1? I'm looking at this Sony M15U, it seems to be the best price/value... unless any of you have better suggestions??

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=430959&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Forget that Sony deck if you want to shoot 24F with the Canon. You can NOT play back Canon's 24F HDV footage on the Sony deck. Although, they announced recently two new models (not that one) that will allegedly play back JVC and Sony 30P/F. Just not 24P/F from either manufacturer.

In effect, when shooting 24P/F we have three HDV formats: JVC, Canon and Sony. None of the three is compatible with the other. This is only in the 24F/P world, which of course everybody wants to shoot these days.

Obviously you can load footage from your camera, or buy the little one for that purpose. But if you're using Canon cameras in a professional editing setup, you really need decks. In our studio, for example, we have 2 DSR1800 decks, with firewire and component, and SDI capable if needed. Each deck stays permanantly attached via component in and out to a similar Betacam deck because we still get involved with Betacam for local TV spots, and old footage. We make master tapes on both DVCAM and Betacam, though not as often in Betacam anymore. It would be nice to have a deck in that system that would play and record Canon 24F HDV, and a little camera wouldn't really cut it because many shows are more than an hour long and require standard size cassettes, not minis. Sony has recognized this need and JVC too. I wish Canon would too. For the type of work we do, it would be easy to dump our big cameras and get two H1s and a couple of A1s--that would be even cheaper than the normal cameras we use and the HDV quality would actually be better than what we do now with 2/3" chip DVCAM gear (at least it would with the Z1, which is the only one whose footage I've actually compared). We could still do that and use Sony decks, but we'd have to shoot 60i or 30p, which would defeat one purpose of the Canon cameras and in that case we might as well go with Z1's. I'm not knocking the Canons--I want one for personal use, but for the company, we'd need decks too. You would think that with 3 very nice HDV cameras almost on the market, they would make a deck. I think Sony has recognized that with their upcoming V1, and that fact alone is probably going to push people more to that camera in spite of its smaller chips and less desireable lens.

Nick, my understanding is that no existing deck (except the Canon HDV camcorders themselves, including the HV10) can play Canon F-mode.

In our studio, for example, we have 2 DSR1800 decks, with firewire and component, and SDI capable if needed. Each deck stays permanantly attached via component in and out

I am guessing th HV10 does not have a componet out or in?

It has component out. Here's a list of the included accessories:


•
BP-310 Battery Pack (with Terminal Cover)
•
CA-570 Compact Power Adapter
•
STV-250 N Stereo Video Cable
•
WL-D87 Wireless Controller
•
IFC-300PCU USB Cable
•
CTC-100 S Component Cable
•
Digital Video Solution Disk for Windows and Macintosh
•
1-Year Warranty

Has anybody determined for sure if it will play 24F.

Has anybody determined for sure if it will play 24F.Yes, for sure, the HV10 will play back both 24F and 30F Frame modes.

Is there anyway to dump a 24f project into a 60i timeline and maintain the look of 24f?

Which NLE are you referring to, so I can move your post to the appropriate software discussion forum?

That's the issue I'm having... I would consider the HV10, but I would rather purchase a true deck with all the extra outputs and such, and that Sony seemed to work great, but as you guys said no 24F... which isn't a complete killer, but nice to have available in a deck

Boy Canon really needs to make a deck!

I agree. I think especially as good as the H1 is that a lot of smaller production houses that now use bigger SD cameras would move to Canon if decks were available. Especially when you consider that you could get two or three H1 cameras and a deck (assuming a reasonably priced deck) for less money than any 2/3" chip camera, or even less than the XDCAM HD 1/2" chip camera.

I've always been nervous about not having a 2/3" chip camera, and even times when I've gone out with a DSR250 on a shoot, I always took the DSR500 along "just in case." However, I've been shooting more and more with smaller cameras, and with the quality of what I've seen from some of the HDV 1/3" chip cameras, I could easily go that route today. But in our company, we'd need a real deck for each edit room.

On a personal level, however, I probably could live without a deck for awhile if necessary, but it's not ideal. It seems to me that Canon hasn't quite decided whether it makes professional or consumer cameras. For instance, you go to their web site and you have to click on Consumer Products, then you get a picture of a little single chip consumer camera and you click on it and it will take you to the professional ones. If they really want to start selling in the smaller TV and producer market, a separate (or apparently separate) professional division as JVC has would help, I think, as well as a deck. But that's just my jaded opinion and it won't keep me from getting the A1 if my personal project is appropriate for it in the near future.

For output to DVD or Blu Ray or whatever, is 30f preferable and better quality than 24f ALL the time?

Also I notice that the A1 does 60f I believe. Is this for HD mode only?

Jerry

For output to DVD or Blu Ray or whatever, is 30f preferable and better quality than 24f ALL the time?

Also I notice that the A1 does 60f I believe. Is this for HD mode only?

Jerry

2 things. I think technically 24f will always be superior to 30f as the data rate stays constant. So simple math says 25mbps\24 is going to give you a better ratio than 25mbps\30. Now, mpg encoding may change that formula a little but I think as a rule you will have less compression visible in 24f.....not that is very visible at all in the first place.

60F? On the A1? I don't think so. Maybe you are thinking of the new JVC. If the A1 has it too then I am even more excited!

Peace!

60F? On the A1? I don't think so. Maybe you are thinking of the new JVC. If the A1 has it too then I am even more excited!

Peace!

Thanks Marty, I had read somewhere that 30 was better but I may have misread it.

I definitely mistyped above...I meant 60i no f..I am sorry for that.

Is 60i specifically for HD?

thanks
Jerry.

60i is good ol' 50+ year old NTSC interlaced standard. It has 30 frames per second (well, actually 29.97 for ancient technical reasons), with each frame being composed of two fields, one of which has the even scan lines and the other the odd scan lines. Fields are displayed every 1/60th of a second. There are quite a few threads on DVi about the technicalities and vagarities of interlaced video, so if it piques your interest and you have a high tolerance for pain, try a keyword search.

...it can do 60f 720 though right?

I hope you are joking. If not, the Xl-H1, A1/G1 and HV10 do no form of 720P let alone a 60F variety.

Absolutely no 720 on any Canon HDV camcorder.

Absolutely no 720 on any Canon HDV camcorder.

Pete thanks....at least I know what the i stood for..I feel like an idiot, it was right there in front of me.

And what you saiid now lays it all open and very clear to me what the 60i and the 30f and so on mean.

But Chris, my question to you and maybe there is an answer already posted, if so I am sorry.

Is 720 desirable over the others? and if so why? I would assume it is more of something the professionals would use?
thanks
Jerry

They are just two standards. Some think one is better, others think the other. Sony and Canon do 1080i, JVC and Panasonic do 720. Two networks do 720p, two do 1080i. Sony and Canon derive P for I, so they're a little more versatile.

I thought the panny HVX does 720p and 1080p?

I thought the panny HVX does 720p and 1080p?

It does 1080i with 24 frames enbedded in that 60i stream. So technically it is 1080i.

However it is the belief among many that the CCDs in the HVX really do not resolve enough lines to be considered a true 1080P camera. The CCDs are really better matched to the 720P format, as most have noted. Setting the camera to the 1080P setting doesn't really increase the image quality to any noticable degree and just takes up 2.5 times as much space.

Still it technically does 1080i in addition to 720P. Prior to the HVX200 the Varicam (Panasonics flagship camera) was a 720 only camera.

The HVX doesn't use HDV, but DVCProHD.

I was responding to the post that said Panasonic does 720P.....didn't realize we were only discussing HDV. In that case Panasonic doesn't do either!

:)

I know we are/were veering dangerously off-topic but thanks for the info Marty. Its wierd that Panasonic made that CCD choice. I wonder why they did that? Must have been a price point thing, I dunno. At first I was really jazzed about the HVX until I read the reports of the low(er) image res. If they had put in CCD's similiar to the XH series cams it would have really be tough to beat. Why do you guys think they did that? It seems like they shot themselves in the foot.

Considering that Panasonic sells the HVX200 faster than they can make it, they most definitely have not "shot themselves in the foot." What they've done is hit one out of the park. It's an incredibly popular camera. If there was some big issue with the image resolution, then they wouldn't sell as well as they do... or they would be flooded with returns. But the fact is that Panasonic can barely keep up with the demand for it.

Now... can we bring this back to the Canon XH A1? Thanks in advance,

What they've done is hit one out of the park. It's an incredibly popular camera. If there was some big issue with the image resolution, then they wouldn't sell as well as they do... or they would be flooded with returns.


Well if I could have returned the HVX200 I would have. While there is nothing "wrong" with it technically, it really pales in comparison with the H1 when it comes to sheer resolution. I think Panny kocked it out of the park by having a P2 workflow and true variable framerates and not neccesarily by having high res CCDs. If that kind of stuff is important to you then Canon seems to have that nailed....(bringing back on topic.......). If the A1 would have been available when the HVX200 was released I think it would have hijacked a lot of sales.

So, Chris.....how sturdy would you say the LCD hinge is on the A1? Since you have handled it I thought you might know. Also....do you have any idea on when the WA adapter will be available? Is is shipping with the cameras (time-wise) or is it coming later? Several images and a review have been done with the attachment so it seems they may be pushing it a bit....

Thanks

The LCD hinge *seems* fine to me but I've handled it for only a few minutes... no idea what that translates to over time. My understanding is that the WA adapter will ship at the same time as the camera.

They are just two standards. Some think one is better, others think the other. Sony and Canon do 1080i, JVC and Panasonic do 720. Two networks do 720p, two do 1080i. Sony and Canon derive P for I, so they're a little more versatile.
Ok that makes sincce then...I read more I think about 1080i than any other.thanks
Jerry

I just ordered the XH-A1 and want to know what the "WA adaptor" you guys are talking about. Thanks!

Wide Angle adapter... see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=76940

Speaking of wide angles...Cavision has a small mattebox that will mount to a 72mm (or other) lens without the need for rods. They also have a "W" version, for 16:9. Since the A1's not out yet, I know nobody knows if that or any other matte box works OK without vignetting at the wide angle, but I was wondering if anybody had figured out which matte boxes might work at the wide angle of the A1's lens, since it's wider than the H1.

We struggled with the decision between the HVX and the H1. And we went with the H1 for a couple of reasons.

1) The 24F mode looked and performed like true 24P so we felt comfortable with it.

2) The resolution was superior to all cameras in its class.

3) We were already comfortable with the form factor (being XL2 shooters).

4) HD-SDI output options.

5) Picture quality and custom preset tuneability.

I saw a movie projected in a theater shot with the HVX and also saw the camera in person, and I really liked it. The footage looked great, and there are some things about the camera I really, really like--especially slomo capability. However, I had to decide against it because of the P2 workflow. For the type of stuff we do, the data handling and archiving would be way too time consuming and take extra personnel, not to mention the expense of getting enough media to make it work. So along with your list of H1 features, I'd add the fact that it records to DV tape as a plus.

Sorry if it sounded like I was ragging on the HVX200. I take back the foot shooting comment, it was more of a toe-shoot. I think the HVX is an awesome camera, the footage from its looks really good, and in some ways its way more advanced than the A1/G1 (P2 cards, variable frame rate etc.). But with the release of the A1/G1 being similiarly priced and in that same size/form factor as the HVX I just am curious that if Sony and Canon have access to higher res ccds for cameras at this price range, why a similiar technology wasnt available to a big hitter like Panasonic, especially on such an advanced camera? Whats up with that?