Canon recommends the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tapes for the XH-A1. I asked them point blank and they immediately suggested the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ for the best results. I am not aware of any problems using this tape and I know many users.

Sony and JVC own the HDV format. They can use the HDV Logo freely. Maxell, Fuji and Panasonic have tapes suitable for HDV in plain plastic boxes with HDV on the label, but not the HDV logo. This saves them money as they are not paying for the official logo use to JVC and Sony.

Some tapes have more uniform metal evaporated particles and some have more particle density. Some tapes have double coating and some are center cuts to avoid tape curl. Some tapes use ABS Anti-Static Plastic Housings to avoid drop out caused from static charges built up by internal friction and so on. Tapes are not all the same at all. They should not be selected by high or low price, but rather based on quality and reliability. In HDV a good tape is more essential to prevent trouble than with DV. This makes sense as more information is being coded on to the tape.

1) Just to be sure: the A1 can't play tapes recorded with DVCAM, right?

2) I think I'll go for the Pan AMQ tapes for my A1, but I have about 10 tapes recorded with a Z1-E (HDV), and if I would have to recapture them to the computer with my A1 (they do play) and then go back to the Pan tapes, should I use a cleaning tape in between, and in that case, a wet or a dry cleaning tape?

Ahhhhh, the good old days of white-box reel-to-reel blank tape. Companies would buy bulk tape, spool it on reels and put it in a box. VHS tape is sold to video service houses on 17,500 ft long pancakes, 5 to a box for respooling.

The package we buy is comprise of three major components, the tape, a cassette, and a case, all could come from different manufacturers. Spell it outsourcing.

FWIW, Panasonic and JVC are both units of Matsushita. So they have a unique ability to share technology, etc. when it suites their parent corporation's purposes.

Back a number of years ago (maybe 12-14 or so) there was a trade magazine that published detailed technical reviews of analog video tape (VHS and 8-mm) over two issues. Have not seen anything like that since.

From a Mar 2000 web site referenced on Wikipedia: "Generally speaking, Panasonic Digital Media manufactures about 70% of DV media, Sony manufactures 25% and TDK manufactures 5%. These figures are approximate and of course subject to change. I know Maxell and Fuji have DV and DVCPRO tape brands, I would expect these manufacturers to enter the game very soon if they are not already as both have a history of providing media."
"What I can find from direct experience of these OEM arrangements is that Panasonic makes Canon and JVC tape. Sony makes its own tape. TDK makes its own. I do not know who makes Fuji, Maxell or other tape brands." Again, that is older info, so thing have no doubt changed somewhat.

And who knows what is coming from China these days. They seem to make everything.

1) Just to be sure: the A1 can't play tapes recorded with DVCAM, right?

I had to capture some material supplied on DVCAM tapes recently and assumed they wouldn't work in my A1. The last thing I wanted to do was put somebody elses tapes in my A1 anyway but unfortunately I didn't have the time to mess around trying to hire a DVCAM deck so gave it a shot anyway - they played back perfectly. I wondered if they might just contain DV footage on DVCAM tapes so tried to play them in a JVC MiniDV cam and they wouldn't play back at all so they must have been in a format other than standard DV.

I wouldn't like to say DVCAM definately plays in the A1, but it certainly looked that way.

The ones I tried wouldn't play. "Ch 1/2" was blinking all the time, and the display said "DV16:9" of some reason although it was 4:3 DVCAM. The image was jumping and there was no sound. They were recorded with a Sony PD-150.

Interesting, as I said I don't know what camera was used to record the tapes I had so can't be sure they were DVCAM. The material was SD 16:9 progressive though.

Paul.

I just ordered 10 (quantity discount) Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ
[snip]
Wish me luck, and I'll keep you all posted on how the tapes work out after I shoot with a few of them.

Brian, I'm curious how your tests have turned out... I have recently purchased the A1 and am facing the same dilemma with tape stock. can you or anybody else weigh in on whether the AY-DVM63PQ or the AY-DVM63MQ tapes are better?

Also, I seem to remember somebody mentioning more dropouts on the 83 minute tapes. Has anybody experienced this before?

Cheers!

-joe

I just received my A1 - got lots to learn.
I have a whole stack of Sony MiniDV SD tapes. I will be doing mostly SD 16:9 anyway. Are these tapes good enough for the A1 or should I get the higher quality tapes?

Also, if I stick with the Sony HDV tapes, can I use them interchangeably with the Sony non-HDV tapes - or do I have to clean between tapes?

Thanks
Jim

SD tape will work fine in the A1, especially for SD work. The major difference with HDV-rated tape is presumably better quality control resulting in less tape-caused drop outs and uncorrectable read errors. Blank DVCAM-labeled tape will work as well since it is basically the same stuff but presumably higher quality. However, trying to playback a DVCAM format recording in a A1 is a different issue.

A need to cleaning between different model tapes types from the same maker is a maybe. Experience will tell.

So can anyone tell me the difference between the Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ and the Panasonic AY-DVM63APQ? They both are labeled professional grade but the APQ has Master quality on it. Are they the same tape but different package?

Canon recommends the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tapes for the XH-A1. I asked them point blank and they immediately suggested the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ for the best results. I am not aware of any problems using this tape and I know many users.

I'd be interested in knowing what or who you mean when you say "Canon recommends Panasonic." Did you see this written on a Canon website or material or hear it from a person?

The reason is that I attened a Canon workshop demo of the A1 recently put on by a Canon employee who works at the Canon Irvine California Service Center and he said that most problems the service center sees are caused by the use of Panasonic tapes becuase they are a dry lubricant and the Canon is made for a wet (or the other way around) but he insisted that Sony tapes were the only tapes that would work without damaging the A1.

I asked him to say this again and he did. He said not to even use the Canon tapes, but the Sony high quality tapes. He said the Canon tapes would work but that the Sony tapes would work better.

So, since this is so different from what you have heard I'd like to get to the bottom of the real answer. If you have a source, this would be helpful.

Strange comments from a Canon employee. Was he a technician or just a talking head good a reading scripts?

I emailed Canon about tapes. Here is their response:

Thank you for writing to us. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you with your XH A1.

Use only videocassettes marked with the Mini DV logo. For recording in
HDV we recommend you use videocassettes compatible with the HDV
standard. We
have no designated name brand for use with your camera.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we
can be of any further assistance with your XH A1.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

I guess it depends on who you ask as to what response you will receive. I have started using the Sony HDV tapes - so far they work great.

Jim

I emailed Canon about tapes. Here is their response:

Thank you for writing to us. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you with your XH A1.

Use only videocassettes marked with the Mini DV logo. For recording in
HDV we recommend you use videocassettes compatible with the HDV
standard. We
have no designated name brand for use with your camera.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we
can be of any further assistance with your XH A1.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

I guess it depends on who you ask as to what response you will receive. I have started using the Sony HDV tapes - so far they work great.

Jim

Amazing, I guess it depends on who you ask because everything these days are pretty much preference I guess.... Amazing.

I think good tape is good tape and cheap tape is cheap tape, regardless of whether it's labeled HDV or DV. I think manfuacturing controls and dropout inspection, etc., are better on the good stuff, which is the reason for using it. You could cover your bases and use Panasonic's AMQ tapes--they say "HDV/DV" so you get both.;)

Wait a minute... Are you guys saying that you can record HD footage on a regular mini-dv tape??? Like this one?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/132812-REG/Sony_DVM60PRL_DVM_60PR_Mini_DV_Video.html

I have a Sony HDR-FX1. Will the tapes above record HD footage on my camera? If that's true then I've blown alot of money on those HDV tapes.

Wait a minute... Are you guys saying that you can record HD footage on a regular mini-dv tape???


Yes, you can record HDV on regular miniDV tape.
(There has been several threads about this)

William,
This issue is dropouts. Regular miniDV tape doesn't have as good a surface as tape marked for HDV. So there are more dropouts with regular miniDV tape. If an occasional dropout doesn't bother you, you can save a lot of money.

How many dropouts you will get varies from tape to tape. I get anything from one per hour to one every 2 or 3 minutes.

William,
This issue is dropouts. Regular miniDV tape doesn't have as good a surface as tape marked for HDV. So there are more dropouts with regular miniDV tape. If an occasional dropout doesn't bother you, you can save a lot of money.

How many dropouts you will get varies from tape to tape. I get anything from one per hour to one every 2 or 3 minutes.

you have made my day in a way buddy,i have been thinking no one else gets drop outs with sony premiums,i get at least 1 or 2 per tape,but stangely touch wood recording edited films from pc back onto tape less than than the outside filming tapes if you get what i meen.chris

Any updates from folk with XH-A1 and what tape you recommend?

I use Sony DVM63HD never had a problem, I used the cannon that came with the camera then just changed over I'm sure one tape aint going to matter

Russ

Will hello, I bought 15 Sony HD mini dv tapes for £70.70 and a Sony head cleaning tape for £6.35 on ebay these prices include postage from japan.
This means that the individual price for HD tape is £4.71 very reasonable I think. Where abouts in manchester do you live PM me if you like.

Any updates from folk with XH-A1 and what tape you recommend?

I've used the Sony line up, and will shoot the Premium series for my own work, but if it's for a customer, I will not take a chance and use the Sony Digital Master.
DM has been the most reliable in terms of not having much drop-outs, but the cost is too extreme to use for everything I do. So I save its use for customers' work.

I have used Panasonic MQs exclusively in my XLH1, HV20 and A1...

I have never had a single dropout in dozens of tapes... not one, ever.

Highly recommend these Panny MQs for HDV recording, highly reliable plus you save big bucks over HDV branded tapes.

If I'm not mistaken, the MQ series has been discontinued, but there's a new line introduced as well now. AY-DVM63SQ.

Bill

I've been using the Sony Premiums with the A1, and I'd say I've been averaging 1 dropout per tape. It isn't a big deal since I do narrative and I always have more than one take to choose from, but someone who does event videography should definitely take that into consideration. If there's a tape in the same price range that has fewer dropouts I'll switch to it, but otherwise I'll just keep dealing with the intermittent dropouts.

I'm interested in hearing from owners/users of the XH-A1 as to the relative merits and opinions on the following tapes:

Sony DVM-63HD
Sony PHDVM-63DM
Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ

I've just merged together about a dozen separate discussions of tape brands for the Canon XH series; this will serve as the "master discussion thread" for such a frequently discussed topic.

I'm watching this with interest as well. I'm new to A-1 and the Sony DVM63HD were recommended to me....that's what I'm trying out.

I'm interested in hearing from owners/users of the XH-A1 as to the relative merits and opinions on the following tapes:

Sony DVM-63HD
Sony PHDVM-63DM
Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ


A dozen of Sony DVM-63HD's so far, never had a problem. Also used the Canon tape that came with my A1.
What about the durability of these Sony's? Some of my 5, 6, 7 yrs old Panasonic Pro tapes are heavily damaged - despite of using them only once, storing them dry'n'dark, rewinding/fast-forwarding them once every year.

Sony DVM63HD for me aswell shot about 30 tapes never had a prob also used the origianal cannon tape

Russ

I have been using the Panasonic AMQ tapes and never had a problem at all--until one batch.

A few months ago I did a week shoot with my camera, and the other guy also had an XH A1. It was his production and he bought 15 or 20 tapes for both of us to use. He sat on the footage for months and just started loading it a couple of weeks ago... only to discover that 3 of the tapes had big dropouts, including one from my camera.

None of my tapes has had a problem, either ones I bought before or since that shoot, but now I'm a bit nervous about the AMQs. The shoot was in normal conditions, no excessive dust or humidity or anything strange.

From what I've read most people seem to be using the AMQs and have reported little or no problems. I was a big promoter of them until this problem happend. If it had been one of the cameras, I probably would have said dirty heads. But it happened to tapes in both cameras. All the tapes were from the same box.

Now I'm a bit nervous about these tapes, and I think I will switch to the Sony PHDVM, even though they cost twice as much.

I went with the Canon E63PR and after testing it against the sony, found that it provided better image sharpness. Color is accurate and no drop out so far. Also working great on my current tests to re-record on same tape.

I've taken to using the Sony Digital Master tapes for those occasions when I am shooting for a client. It's been very reliable thus far, however I have only shot about 20 tapes so far.
I think it helps to give yourself that extra (potentially anyways) edge in reliability (freedom from drop-outs). No tape line will ever be drop-out free, there will always be the occasional manufacturing flaw. However, the Sony DM is supposedly made to a higher quality standard so these occurrances should be less over time.

I have used Panasonic tapes from the get-go, Started in my DVC-30 a couple years ago and have used the same PQ tapes since on my DVX and now my A1. I haven't ever had a problem with the tape, ever.

AY-DVM63PQ if you are wondering.

I captured some Sony tapes through a HV20 a couple days ago and had 2 dropouts from 6 tapes.

I went with the Canon E63PR and after testing it against the sony, found that it provided better image sharpness. Color is accurate and no drop out so far. Also working great on my current tests to re-record on same tape.

Michael, perhaps I am off base here...but how can one type of mini-dv/hdv tape provide better "image sharpness" than any other when the data being recorded is 1's and 0's? As far as I know, there can be a difference in the quality of the tape itself, but not a difference in the quality of the video being recorded, as it is all digital. The only improvement you may find from switching to an alternate/more expensive brand as far as picture-quality is concerned, is that you may have less dropouts.

You're not off base. You're absolutely right. :)

Bill

Yes! Finally! I imparted some knowledge! I'm not just a thread-resource sucker afterall!

Not to flog a dead horse, but I have almost decided to go with what seems to be the most popular make/model of tape: Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ. Before I go and order 50 of them, does anyone think there would be a better tape-stock to purchase?

Nope, I would use that, but I cant justify paying that much for tape right now. So I go with the PQ tapes instead.

Not to flog a dead horse, but I have almost decided to go with what seems to be the most popular make/model of tape: Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ. Before I go and order 50 of them, does anyone think there would be a better tape-stock to purchase?

If avoiding dropouts is one of your highest priorities I suggest the Sony Digital Masters, I have had the least dropouts with this tape (which is nice since they cost $15 per).

I use TDK Digital Master tapes, haven't had any dropouts even reusing tapes about 6 times.
I think they're the best price/quality ratio you can get in Latvia.

I'm really stressing over which tapes i should purchase in bulk? I'm looking to get 100 tapes for my A1 and Sony Fx1.

I will be out shooting my first documentary in the summer for one month in Asia, and I don't know whether i should just go ahead and use the sony dvm-60 tapes like i have been for the past few months on both cameras, or upgrade to those newer hdm-63 tapes that just came out? THe price difference for both from taperesources.com is quite a bit. At about a $500 difference. 2.29 vs 7.00 per tape (discounted @ 100tapes).

Considering it will be extremeley hot and humid, in Asia where the weather is tropic, i don't know if that would affect the quality of the tapes while shooting over there compared to here in California.

I need to purchase the tapes in the next few days and i need to lock down my decision. Can someone give me some feedback or suggestions?