I'm not even sure that there's still that issue regarding the "dry/wet" scenario. I've heard & read that isn't an issue anymore since a few years ago & Sony had "converted" to using a dry lubricant because of all the riffraff... since they were, in other words, the "black sheep" of the family & were the only tape manufacturer using the wet process. But... unless I hear it from the horses... or in this case... the sheep's mouth... I won't believe anything.

Bill

I'm not even sure that there's still that issue regarding the "dry/wet" scenario. I've heard & read that isn't an issue anymore since a few years ago & Sony had "converted" to using a dry lubricant because of all the riffraff... since they were, in other words, the "black sheep" of the family & were the only tape manufacturer using the wet process. But... unless I hear it from the horses... or in this case... the sheep's mouth... I won't believe anything.

Bill

While I mainly used the Sony Premiums on the GL2, I used a good number of TDK's and a few Fujufilm tapes when I needed them that day and couldn't find anything else. I've never had any problems with the camera or dropouts. I myself am wondering if this "stick with one brand" thing is just something that was maybe a problem years ago, but now everyone keeps repeating it because it's something they were told when they got their first minidv camera.

I think the biggest issue was mixing Sony and others. Certainly in the old days Sony (wet), Panasonic (dry) and TDK (dry) were the only people who made dv tape, with others mostly rebranding Panasonic.

It's possible that Fuji and Maxell make their own miniDV tape, now.

And the tape that came with the A1 looks like a Sony tape.

So, after reading all those threds I still have no idea of what type and brand to use with my new XH A1.

I should appreciate if someone have no drops outs or any artifacts in their recordings just to stick with one brand and type of tapes.

Happy recordings.
Ignacio

It's possible that Fuji and Maxell make their own miniDV tape, now.

Speaking of Maxell. I was looking around online for what would be the most cost effective HDV tape to use. $25 could easily become a little over the top for most people (like some of the Canon and Sony tapes) and although $10 is fairly reasonable, if you can get the same manufactured tape but with a different label for less, why not?

I'm not sure if anyone has been using this, but the stock is made by Maxell and is quite affordable (at under $5 a pop.) "303140 DVM63PRO" One website writes this:

With DVPRO tape for HDV and DV high output is also achieved together with a superior binder that ensures long-term reliability and excellent lubricating performance, which even after repeated use maintains a low error rate. Also, Maxells dry lubricant not only helps to prevent headwear (-4m after 500H), but also prevents head clogs and significantly extends head life.


I checked around at other sites, and B&H lists item number 303140 a little different. The site mentions nothing about HDV usage, and even calls the Maxell tape the "JVC M-DV63PRO Mini DV Video Cassette."

Any idea what this is about and whether this stock is designed with HDV video recording in mind?? Please share. Thanks!

Maxell and Fuji have been making their own tape for decades now.

So is that the general consensus, don't even use one "off" brand? I can't justify spending + £14 per tape to myself nevermind my clients . I'm going to have to order me some mid-range tapes and stick to them then... *sigh*

Panasonic AMQ you say? Does anyone else have a suggestion?

From 1996 onward I used both Sony and Panasonic tapes interchangeably in my VX-1000 with absolutely no problems. So far my Sony HVR-A1U has been happy with both brands of tape, too.

Best wishes,
Peter
http://www.parkfilms.com

I just ordered 10 (quantity discount) Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ Master Quality Mini DV tapes off of B&H. At 4.39 a piece, very reasonable for "Master Quality."

Wish me luck, and I'll keep you all posted on how the tapes work out after I shoot with a few of them.

I've been using the Canon tape, supplied with the A1, all through my testing; I'd like to switch to Sony tapes in the future as I've had quite a good experience with them, and they're easier to buy. Should I take any special measures before, such as running a cleaning tape (which - Canon's or Sony one)?

You shouldn't need to, after shooting just that 1 tape. I use the Sony tapes too, generally they are very good, but not perfect.

From my experience, the Sony tapes have definitely the highest performance/price ratio, at least with their price in Poland. On the other hand, I've never even seen Canon miniDV tapes being offered, so to me the choice is obvious.

Even if you're right that using a cleaning casette is not necessary after just one Canon tape, what do you thik I should buy for future use (provided I'll be using Sony tapes exclusively): the Canon, or Sony cleaning tape?

I've always used the Sony cleaners in all my previous cams (Sony, JVC, Canon) and I plan to use them in the A1. I used to use the Sony Excellence tapes on my VX2100 and XL1s, and I started getting a few dropouts every 3 or 4 tapes, so now with the new A1 I'm trying the Panasonic Advanced Master Quality which are about $1 cheaper than the Sonys and from what I've heard on DVI people are having pretty good luck with them.

As a side note: I think the Canon tape is a re-labeled Sony tape. The Sony tapes that I use have a small grid pattern on the case. The other brands that I have used and seen have a different case design, pattern, or window placement. The Canon tape that came with my A1 has the same case as a Sony.

As a side note: I think the Canon tape is a re-labeled Sony tape. The Sony tapes that I use have a small grid pattern on the case. The other brands that I have used and seen have a different case design, pattern, or window placement. The Canon tape that came with my A1 has the same case as a Sony.
Can anybody confirm this is actually true? Would be nice to know I'm actually NOT changing brands (same lubricants etc).

I read in another thread that Sony sells wet tapes, JVC, Panasonic, TDK sell dry tapes. In the A1 manual, it's said that a DRY cleaning tape must be used - does it mean that also the Canon recording tapes are of the dry type? If so, this would contradict the claim that the Canon miniDV is actually a Sony-made tape, or can be freely mixed with Sony tapes..

Where is the truth? Is the Sony cleaning tape also dry?

The Canon HDV tape is in a case very similar to the Sony HDV tapes. It's got to be either Sony or Fuji. Panasonic doesn't seem to make those kinds of cases. Even so, I'd run the cleaning tape before switching.

I've used Sony DVCAM tapes in DVCAM cameras for about 7 years with no trouble at all. However, I switched to the Panasonic AMQ (Advanced Master Quality) for the XH A1. I know lots of people using that tape with no problems, and the guy at Zotz said that's what most of his XL H1 customers have been using. Significantly cheaper than the Sony HDV tapes, but you don't get the DVCAM type case.

Sony's site lists the new digitalmaster hdv tapes (PHDV-276DM) supported recording formats as 1080i and 720p. My question is this, do you guys think there could be a problem using these with 24f mode on the canon A1? I know canon's 24f is created by some sort of 1080i signal, but isn't the the final compressed product true progressive data? So wouldn't that be 1080p data? Has anybody tried these w/ their A1?

From my experience, the Sony tapes have definitely the highest performance/price ratio, at least with their price in Poland. On the other hand, I've never even seen Canon miniDV tapes being offered, so to me the choice is obvious.

Even if you're right that using a cleaning casette is not necessary after just one Canon tape, what do you thik I should buy for future use (provided I'll be using Sony tapes exclusively): the Canon, or Sony cleaning tape?


I would get the Sony, because that is my personal bias in tape stock. However, I am sure the Canon cleaner is as good as the Sony. I hve used both with good results. They will both do the job.

You may use a MiniDV tape or an HDV tape in the Canon XH A1 or XH G1 or XL H1.

All modes of the camera, including 24f, are supported by any tape that is proper for the camera.

Specifically, yes, these tapes will work in your camera for all camera modes.

The only tape that I absolutely know for sure that uses a "dry" lubricant is the Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ (Master Quality). 4 years ago I paid $7 each from a tape supply company, now I can buy these for $4 each from Amazon. I buy them 50 at a time, but the price is the same for 5. I get them within 3 days of ordering so it doesn't take a lot of planning ahead.
It is the ONLY tape I have ever used in my DVX100.
The film school I attended used consumer quality Sony tapes and I had several drop out and digital noise problems in the first 30 seconds of these tapes on their cameras.
Why would I pay $4 each for an inferior tape just because I can pick them up at Wal-Mart when by planning ahead I can get the best tape on the planet for the same price? Just My opinion.
P.S. Another reason for my buying 50 at a time is that I supply 3 or 4 of my friends that don't seem to plan ahead. :-)

The AMQ (Advance Master Quality) tapes are now around $8.00 (USD) at most places. That's what I've been using.

The film school I attended used consumer quality Sony tapes and I had several drop out and digital noise problems in the first 30 seconds of these tapes on their cameras.

Regardless which tape I use, since the mid to late 80's, I have always run roughly 1 min. of bars on every tape to get passed the portion that's affected by the take up reel/leader that can create imperfections on the surface of the tape.

I'm not saying it's fool proof & that you can use consumer grade tape using this method. It's just if there was any spot on any tape that can be more prone to dropouts, etc., it's near the head & tail.

Bill

Any suggestions on a good cleaning tape to use?

Any suggestions on a good cleaning tape to use?
When I sent my old XM1 to Canon service for repairs, they sent it back with a head cleaning tape. The piece of card in the plastic box said "Canon" but the tape itself was identical to a Panasonic cleaning tape that I'd bought 6 months before.

I also use Sony MiniDV Head Cleaner cassette. I used the same with my previous cams and the results were very good. No need to buy more expensive types imo.

As far as media is concerned, I'm still running on Sony MiniDV 63min. tapes and I will in the future. They work perfectly with XH A1. No dropouts so far and very few with previous cams. I think those rare problems were in most cases caused by dust particles, not by tape imperfections. I don't think there is any significant difference in manufacturing process of MiniDV and HDV tapes. Their density does not have to be higher for HDV because it still works with similar bitrate (around 25mbps).

I'm using Panasonic AMQ tapes for the Canon A1.

Hey crew - just bought a new A1 to get into small-scale film production with a partner... she's from a photography background, I'm from a music/writing background, so this is a bit of a direction change for both of us, and it's going to be an interesting experience.

Key question - I've read that it's a good idea to stick to one tape brand because the heads get "used" to the chemical make-up or some other atttribute of one brand of tape. Is that valid thinking, or fantasy?

If so, what brand are people recommending - I don't have the choice here that some of you guys have, but certainly Sony and Cannon are no problem.
thanks, Ian

Do some searching of just the A1 forum. There have been lots of helpful posts to the tape stock for the A1. I had the same question, and those threads helped me out greatly......
Just to get you started.....

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=85756&highlight=Panasonic
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=85571&highlight=Panasonic
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=79812&highlight=Panasonic
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=77955&highlight=Panasonic

I personally use Sony Excellence, due to many years of good experience using Sony. But many use and like the Panansonic tapes too.

Video performance and reliability will be roughly equal, so consider going with which one you have the best access to. That may be important some day when you need to buy two more tapes on a Sunday....sometimes those situations come up.

I don't know how (and where) you succeeded in sourcing tapes other than the Sony Digital HD Video Tapes (the ones with the maroon colouring --- DVM63). It's virtually impossible to get anything else here in Johannesburg. No-one around seems to have ever heard of the Panasonic tapes other people are raving about here. So I'm basically stuck with these, just to make my life a bit easier in respect of supply!
If you discover a reliable source for Canon or even the Panasonic tapes, please let me know.

I've used a batch of AY-DVM63PQ tapes (about a dozen in all) in a brand new Canon XH-A1 and now wish to switch to AY-DVM63AMQ tapes after reading rave reviews about their performance.

Would it be prudent to run a Panasonic tape head cleaner through my new A1?

Would it be sufficient to run a AY-DVM63AMQ through the A1 prior to filming in HDV mode?

Please note I didn't use the free 'Canon' HDV tape supplied with the camera. The camera has only ever recorded to about a dozen AY-DVM63AMQ tapes.

I'd be interested to hear any thoughts, concerns or issues you may have with me switching from AY-DVM63PQ to AY-DVM63AMQ tapes.

TIA
Neil

I don't think it's going to be a problem if you're staying with a particular manufacturers tape, no matter if it's from Panny's PQ to AMQ.

Also, I've always heard it doesn't matter which manufacturers head cleaner you use as long as you stick to the trusted name brands.

Bill

I don't think it's going to be a problem if you're staying with a particular manufacturers tape, no matter if it's from Panny's PQ to AMQ.

Also, I've always heard it doesn't matter which manufacturers head cleaner you use as long as you stick to the trusted name brands.

Bill

Thanks for that Bill.

What I think I'll do regardless is record 60 minutes or so onto a AY-DVM63AMQ prior to actually filming the event.

Hi!
Just bought my brand new A1!
Do you guys use any tape brand or are there brands that are better or even damaging to the A1? I've heard generally some tapes can clog the video head (some people always use the same brand as the camera).
What are your experiences?
I found no old thread about this, but if you know one please help me find it.

Hi Urban,

Congratulations with your new beauty.
I myself use the JVC ProHD63ME and Sony DVM63 and 85 tapes.
Most of the time I use the JVC tape and when I switch I run my cleaning tape for 10 seconds.

This afternoon I send an email to a Dutch Magazine, asking them if they were willing to test all the new DV and HDV tapes and then write about it in the magazine ofcourse.

In the past someone did. He could use a professional lab from Sony to test all the tapes. I'm hoping they are willing to do a real test in the near future and bring some results.

Good luck with your beauty,

Gert

I use the panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ for HDV/DV and they have been great so far. Not the cheapest however.

Trish

An electronics repairman once told me never to run a cleaning tape in a camera, because "they work like sandpaper". Instead he recommended to clean the video head with other tools (which I wont' tell, because I'm not sure enough what it was or how to use them). So I'm quite cautious about using cleaning tapes! :) But that was off-topic.

Hello Urban,

This post should help you out : http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=90952&highlight=tapes

Especially #12 by Mike, he describes it pretty well.

You should never use "other tools" to clean your camera. The possibility to mess it up is huge. A cleaning tape is made to clean the heads, not mess them up.

Any way check out the above thread, I think you will find the answers to your ?'s.

Scooter

Funny how there is so much mis-information out there.

I have two Sony HDR-FX1's and started by using Sony Premium tapes but have since moved to the Panasonic "professional quality" AY-DVM63PQ 63 Minute tapes and can say that the price/quality seems to be the way to go. I've not had any dropouts (never have anyway). I've probably put about 20 hours or so on each camera and have never run the cleaning tape through so now may be the time to do it.

Jon

Re: cleaning tapes. Sony's service center one time recommended that I use the cleaning tape every 50 hours for 5 seconds just for regular maintenance. I always did that and got the full estimated head life, sometimes more. Overuse of head cleaning tapes is not good, but proper use is.

Re: tapes. I switched to the Panasonic AMQ tapes for the XH A1. Haven't seen a dropout yet. They were recommended to me by a Canon dealer in Portland (who's a sponsor here-Zotz Digital). He's sold lots of Canon HDV cameras to wildlife photographers out there, and said most everybody he sells to is using the AMQ tapes successfully. Two other friends of mine here are using them in their XH A1s and so far no problems.

I got JVC M-DV63PROHD tapes after they were reccomended to me by one of the Canon guys at Videoforum 2007. Haven't seen them mentioned much on this forum but they were half the price of the Sony tapes and have served me well so far.

I think one key thing is that once you've settled on a brand of tape, stick with it. I've found that mixing brands can often lead to a battle between the dry lubricants used and subsequent head clogging issues. Personally, I'm using the Panasonic AMQ tapes with excellent results.

Canon gave me a HDV 63 min tape with the camera which I used right away. I read many articles about using different brands and all of them said you should stick to one type.. so the only tape my camera will have inside is the Canon HDV 63 min. I don't mind though coz everything I use is Canon made anyway.

-John

1) so the only tape my camera will have inside is the Canon HDV 63 min.-- -John
Found any good place to buy them?

2) What do you (others) think about re-recording tapes?

3) Thanks, Scooter, for the thread. Very helpful.

In Europe, my experience is that you don't find HDV tapes easily in the shops, brands like Panasonic & JVC are really nowhere on the shelf. Forget Canon completely.

Sony and TDK are the only obvious ones, as I see. And to be honest: for 99% consumer ranges only.

If you find real HDV tapes, mostly in a very, very specialized (and expensive) pro-video shops: they wear excessive price tags.

I'm very interested in any test/review/report that proves on a hard scientific basis that the use of type of tapes is really worth this money. Never found anything on the internet... which is strange.

In Europe, my experience is that you don't find HDV tapes easily in the shops---
No, only in specialized photo web shops and local video rental companies. Maybe we can help each other find good 'discount' web shops in Europe, avoiding customs (the trade union really works, eh?)

I'm very interested in any test/review/report---
I am too.

As with optical media, only a few companies manufacture tape. A lot of companies put their name on tape made for them by others. At one time Canon labeled tape was from Panasonic. Not sure who makes it today.

A known fact... for which I would like to see the 'scientific based' comparison, as stated.

(in Europe): I compared the Canon tape that came with the XH A1 with a Sony premium tape: tape cases are COMPLETELY IDENTICAL in every detail the same. If it should really be the same tape inside... price difference of factor 5 - 6X ?

I also discovered that the TDK tape sold over here is nearly identical with some (extremely bad) EMTEC DV tapes I bought a few years ago. While a german website has done comparisons between Sony/TDK & Fuji, and discovered that the cases were exactly the same between Sony & TDK.

The tapes I had were clearly different. Potentialy: the real manufacturer is even different per country and/or region.

But... even if the manufacturer is the same, it still doesn't tell anything about the tape inside. There might still be a huge difference in basic param's & quality control.

even if the manufacturer is the same... there might still be a huge difference in basic param's & quality control.Absolutely yes there is. Tape is manufactured in rolls of big wide sheets, like aluminum foil or plastic wrap. Then it's thinly sliced, like pieces of sandwich meat. Slices coming from the middle of the roll are higher quality than the slices coming from the ends of the roll. Those middle slices are packaged, branded and sold as higher-grade, more expensive tape relative to the rest of the roll.

just wondering if anyone had used sony's standard bottom of the line mini-dvc tapes, the ones that come in the blue package (DVM60PRL), with the A1. I've got a few day shoot where the footage is going to be sped up for a time lapse effect so I will be using a lot of tapes. Anyone have problems with these?

Absolutely yes there is. Tape is manufactured in rolls of big wide sheets, like aluminum foil or plastic wrap. Then it's thinly sliced, like pieces of sandwich meat. Slices coming from the middle of the roll are higher quality than the slices coming from the ends of the roll. Those middle slices are packaged, branded and sold as higher-grade, more expensive tape relative to the rest of the roll.
Is there or is there not an actually difference in the tape itself between lower and higher grades. For example, are the recording particles different and is the substrate stronger or weaker?

Also, is there by chance a chart somewhere someone has created that compares the different qualities and brands of tape and the lubricants used (and perhaps groups them by similarity or compatability)?

I am going to buy and XH-A1 this week and have the dilemma about which tape to use.

I narrowed it down to the following three:
Panasonic DVM63AMQ ($6.95 each)
Sony DVM-63HD ($9.35 each)
JVC ProHD ($9.05 each)

How do I know what the differences are? How do I know which is most suitable to my purpose -- which is documentary, in regular weather as well as snow, with plane travel?

Why is the Panasonic tape cheaper?

Why is there another group of tapes from Sony and Pansonic that is 1-1/2 to 2 times the cost of these?

I am leaning toward the Pansonic for cost, since I will use quite a bit of tape. Currently I use Sony Premium in a PD150 and the JVC ProHD in a JVC HD110.