Anyone know why my $400 Sony handycam has a more sensitive zoom than my HVX200?

I can actually do slower, more subtle zooms with the Sony and its puny zoom controller. I've tried it many times and the HVX doesn't "ease" into the zoom. Had this problem with the DVX too and found it pretty frustrating.... curious how anyone dealt with this.

. .. because it was a Sony. . .

I don't know if this would be it, or make a difference, but I am aware that on some (most? all?) of the Sony Prosumer cams, the zoom is 100% controlled electronically, there is no actual manual control over the linkage, even if you turn the ring to zoom, whereas the Panasonic's is manual or servo controlled, so you can do a true manual zoom w/ the ring.

Jason, this is not even a prosumer, this is straight-up Handycam consumer camcorder from Best Buy for taping my kids & stuff. Great for what it is though.

I seem to remember the 20x zoom lens on the Canon XL1s being very sensitive as well. Wonder what the actual difference is with the HVX/DVX zooms...

. .. because it was a Sony. . .

Meaning...

I can actually do slower, more subtle zooms with the Sony and its puny zoom controller. I've tried it many times and the HVX doesn't "ease" into the zoom. Had this problem with the DVX too and found it pretty frustrating.... curious how anyone dealt with this.
Take the HVX off servo and zoom manually.

Take the HVX off servo and zoom manually.

Sam, I appreciate the suggestion, but the results aren't nearly as smooth that way. The manual zoom ring is loosey-goosey, so if I'm shooting, say, an interview and I decide to creep in a little tighter on the subject, I simply can't pull that off by moving the zoom ring with my hand. It would take the steadiest hand in the world to do it as smoothly as a servo...

Really all I want to know is what is the mechanical difference between the Panasonic zoom and others (as it relates to this). Appreciate any knowledge if it's out there...

Manual zooming (rack/zip zoom) is an art form to be mastered then cherished !
Servo zoom is for ?

Manual zooming (rack/zip zoom) is an art form to be mastered then cherished !
Servo zoom is for ?

I'm talking slow and steady Matt, a completely different type of effect than a snap zoom. So slow that you can barely see it.

Try that, manually, on an HVX- it won't be smooth. Unless you're Steve Austin and have a bionic arm.

Ben,

I too have been disappointed with the lack of a ultra-slow creep zoom or, the ability to pull into a zoom very slowly. I noticed this when I first purchased the Rock PZFI controller from Varizoom; I thought the external controller was to blame. After discussions with the Varizoom engineers it turns out Panny just didn't design the zoom servo controller very well hence, we're stuck with it's lackluster performance in servo mode.

There is only one - and very expensive option - for getting repeatable and smooth ultra-slow zooms out of the HVX and that is to purchase one of the several manual zoom controls from either Zacuto, Century Optics etc. With those controls you can, with practice, get glass smooth manual zooms and ultra slow crawl-type zooms with ease.

The hope is that if Panny makes an "A" version of the HVX (as they did with the DVX) that both the autofocus and zoom controllers will be updated with better versions.

How expensive are those expensive options and how do they work?

Thanks Robert, and you're right the autofocus and zoom are the 2 things that really bug me (i.e., that I expected better performance on). Otherwise the camera is a great tool.

Out of curiosity, where can I see one of these expensive zoom controls you're talking about?

Sam, I appreciate the suggestion, but the results aren't nearly as smooth that way. The manual zoom ring is loosey-goosey
The only other thing I can think of is putting a follow focus on the zoom ring.

Talk to Jens @ Zacuto; I don't see it on their website but he mentioned a version of their follow-focus setup that could be used for zooming instead. The caveat, is that because of how this rig it setup you'd either only have this manual zoom setup or, follow-focus, but not both. There's not enough room to have both focus and zoom rings setup for external manual controls.

I don't remember the follow-focus pricing, but if you dont' already have the Zacuto baseplate system then your'e talking about $2k to get the entire rig setup. Not very cost effective if all you're after is better zooming.

For now, I'm just living with the zoom as-is. I've considered a super-long zoom knob/stick to mount on the zoom ring to give more finesse in manual, but it's still not going to match servo smoothness.

I just hope the Panny engineers are working on an "A" version of the HVX will better autofocus and servo zoom controllers.

You're absolutely right Robert, no substitute for servo smoothness, and this is a huge shortcoming when comparing the HVX200 to ENG cameras with mechanical lenses. I'll live with it too...for the time being.

There's not enough room to have both focus and zoom rings setup for external manual controls.
If you had two single-sided FF units (that are adjustable enough - maybe Dan Diaconu's FF unit (http://www.care2.com/c2c/photos/view/741898547/SI/IMG01057.jpg.html)), you could use one unit on the left side and the other on the right side of the camera. Of course, you could just keep the autofocus on and use the FF for just the zoom.

There's no practical way for a dual mount; the right side of the camera front is dominated by the XLR inputs and switches. Besides, focus and zoom ring are so close to each other that the FF/zoom control would be competing for space on the rails making one unmountable.

Clearly, some enterprising engineer-type could easily create a custom mount where both zoom & focus controls could be mounted but it would take a special design not yet created.

My guess is that since such a small percentage of HVX users actually need or want external manual lens controls that it would be cost prohibitive to create such a dual device, but we can always hope!

Use a dolly...it's SO much nicer than a zoom!

A dolly isn't practical much of the time, especially in an interview setting.

I've had similar problems with trying to manually zoom.

I was thinking of some sort of crank-driven setup that could be adapted to any rod support system.

Yes, this has been a problem (and people have been bringing up this issue) since the first DVX100. Problem is, it was never fixed in the DVX100a, DVX100b and now the HVX. Really was hoping it was fixed, now that I've just moved from the DVX to the HVX. Seems like such a basic fix to implement, especially since, as mentioned earlier, you can get a relatively smooth slow zoom and step into zoom from a $400 camcorder.

No-one's mentioned it that I've noticed on this thread, but personally I find the slow setting on the handle-mounted zoom controller is fine for slow zooms - no problem to reach it during interviews. But maybe I'm not as critical as the experienced DPs out there.
Tom

Tom, the handle mounted zoom has the same problem, I assume because it's employing the same servo.

For all you HVX200 owners, can you tell me when you use the ZOOM ring in manual mode, does it have the feel of the:

-DVX100
or
-DVX100a/b

I remembered when playing with the DVX100 zoom ring (in manual mode), that the zoom ring was VERY loose and basically useless to do a nice, although not the smoothest, zoom.

I only heard, have not experienced first hand, that the zoom ring tension was improved on the A and B DVX100 models. True?

Andrew, the zoom ring tension (in manual mode) is a lot stiffer on the HVX200 than on the DVX100 (original model) that I had before this. It doesn't make to much difference to me as I only use manual for snap zooms. But it does have a little more resistance, if that's what you wanted to know.

Thanks Ben!!

Indeed that's what I was hoping to hear.

I'm talking slow and steady Matt, a completely different type of effect than a snap zoom. So slow that you can barely see it.

Try that, manually, on an HVX- it won't be smooth. Unless you're Steve Austin and have a bionic arm.

Benjamin, you're not trying to zoom manually without moving the Zoom switch on the front of the camera from servo to manu are you? It would hardly require Steve Autstin to move the zoom ring when it is switched to manual. Jane Austin could handle it.

I'm new to the HVX but, I think it's smoother to use the handle zoom at setting one, and it requires zero practice. It's not slow enough either though. My first Panasonic camera was an AG DVC30 and it has a wonderfully slow servo zoom at one third the cost. Much slower and smother than my HVX. What up wit dat Panny?

I have never used the DVX 100A or B but the HVX200 manual zoom is for me, great. One thing though, so far for me, it's impossible to get an unnoticable zoom unless you combine it with motion, like moving from one person or subject to another. You just can't start or control the zoom smoothly enough by hand.

But combined with motion, it is invaluable, and so much more controllable than the "servo" mode. In other words, you can hide the zoom with the motion of the camera and this is exactly what I like to do with it. A manual zoom on these cheaper cameras to me is useless otherwise, you just can't start/stop it smoothly enough.

There is one thing, the level "1" setting of the handle zoom starts off almost unnoceable, but still starts off with a very slight jerk in my opinion, and then is only at the slowest setting, so not really of any use if you want it to go any faster.

The only other option on changing he subject size in the frame is to dolly instead of zoom, you get very smooth start and stops, that you can't really do with a zoom.

I've recently watched a number of old feature films where they zoomed instead of dollied and to me it was very obvious because no dolly could start and stop that fast. But maybe the general audience wouldn't notice this anyway, just seemed a little too sudden for my taste.

Profressionals never use zoom in the final footage so it is a none issue

Benjamin, you're not trying to zoom manually without moving the Zoom switch on the front of the camera from servo to manu are you? It would hardly require Steve Autstin to move the zoom ring when it is switched to manual. Jane Austin could handle it. [/i]

No, Martin, I'm not trying to break my camera. What I meant by Steve Austin was that it would take a robotic hand to deliver an extremely slow manual zoom that was as smooth as a servo (because a robotic hand would be a servo, har har).

This type of slow, creep zoom actually does have application in the professional world; I've used it for interviews and filming dance, and I'm sure I've seen it used in wildlife footage. Some people don't like zoom out of principle, to each their own. What perplexes me, as I said at the beginning of this thread, is that my $400 Sony Handicam can do slower, more subtle zooms than a DVX or HVX.

Profressionals never use zoom in the final footage so it is a none issue

That's a bold and completely erroneous statement, Cees. I just watched a CSI episode tonight where zoom was used countless times not only for effect but to create tension or to create a central point of interest in a scene.

Zoom is used almost as much as shallow DOF to create a "look" by some of the most respected DP's the world over.

The key to using zoom has always been to have complete (and smooth) control over speed, initial movement and small speed variances (ramping), which has been the focal point of this thread.

The built-in servo zoom on the HVX has it's functionality, but it's far from being a smooth start or end movement and of course lacks the speed variances to create a seamless ramping movement.

(because a robotic hand would be a servo, har har).


Good to know Benjamin. Just making sure. You know with the way the price of technology goes down, we should be able be able to get a bionic arm for around 60 bucks.

If pros don't use a zoom I guess A. Hitchcock was a hack amateur.

You're absolutely right there Robert, I completely forgot about the whole "active camera" thing that has taken over. "The Shield" has zooming all over the place

I just noticed Varizoom has a new "throttle" style zoom controller for the HVX: VZ Stealth PZFI. They say it supposed to give full crawl speed control. I have not tried one yet but am very tempted.

My only hestitation is that when I talked with Varizoom previously as to why the ROCK PZFI controller didn't offer any better zoom speed control than the built-in camera rocker, they said it was because it was the way the servo control was designed in the camera and they couldn't override that. Maybe now they've found a way. (?)

I'll investigate further.

Curious to know what you find out there. Thanks for exploring the issue.

That's interesting that you say that about the ROCK PZFI controller, because I just received mine last week and have done 2 shoots with it. I found that the controller had a smoother transition into the zoom than the on camera zoom. At first I thought it was just wishful thinking, but the more I worked with it the more I liked it. Maybe they made an "in production" improvement that they haven't told us about, or maybe it's all in my mind. Either way, I'm happy.

Or at least I think I am....

I just ordered one, so when it arrives I will post some comments. Didn't realise that it would offer different sensitivity for zoom control, but that'd be an added bonus wouldn't it.

I talked with Varizoom this morning; what I was originally told stands true: None of their controllers can change the behavior of the internal servo motor itself. The HVX's inability to start a very slow crawl is a characterisitic of how the servo controller and motor were desgined and no external controller can override that behavior.

In essence any external controller is simply giving you an extension from built-in rockers on the camera body, it does not and cannot modify how they operate - at least for the Panny controllers.

LANC controllers are different: on cameras such as the XL series and some Sony's their controllers can and do give more precise and variable zoom speeds. Why that's not possible with the HVX/DVX is a question for Panny engineers and hopefully, a much needed upgrade in the "A" version of the HVX - if it is ever produced.

LANC controllers are different: on cameras such as the XL series and some Sony's their controllers can and do give more precise and variable zoom speeds. Why that's not possible with the HVX/DVX is a question for Panny engineers and hopefully, a much needed upgrade in the "A" version of the HVX - if it is ever produced.

Indeed. Guess we'll see.

Why that's not possible with the HVX/DVX is a question for Panny engineers and hopefully, a much needed upgrade in the "A" version of the HVX - if it is ever produced.
In the A version of the DVX the problem remained, I don't think they will correct it on the HVX. I wonder why they made the zoom even slower than on the DVX.

Is it possible that the difference I'm noticing has a mechanical componant? It sure feels as though less pressure is required with the external controller than with the on camera. I know that in shooting with firearms a lighter pressure trigger helps to increase accuracy by reducing muscle tension. Perhaps the lighter touch is enabling me to initiate the zoom with finer control?

Or course what you're suggesting is possible for your particular finger-feel. It may be that you personally get more "feedback" from the external controller than the built-in camera rocker. But the actual speeds that are available from the camera don't physically change; as you suggest you might just have a more natural interface with external controls.