Having seen the announcement about the FS-4, I have to see this is the first DTD product that interests me.

I shoot with a DVX100a, usually 24p 2:3 pulldown, - I assume no rendering or conversion would be needed for me to edit in Vegas 5?

Hi Stephan,

Yes, we will have 24p AVI Type 2 support in FireStore FS-4. This format can be used with no rendering or conversion in Premiere Pro and Vegas Video. FS-3 also supports this format.

Hope that helps.

Matt McEwen

Excellent news.

Ok guys - here is what I was able to work out for DV Info Net members. We have put together a special offer from Focus and Videoguys for a $50 Instant Rebate coupon. Just use coupon code DVINFOFS4 when you order on line or over the phone.

This is in additon to our FS-4 launch promotion:

FireStore Fs-4 Pre-Order price is $749.95
Bonus! Free extra battery - Custom Removeable Li-Ion Rechargeable Battery Pack (90 Min run time) $129 (value)

So DV Info Net memebers will get the FireStore FS-4 for $699.95 plus a FREE 2nd battery! http://www.videoguys.com/FireStore.html

Gary
Videoguys.com

Wow that sounds like a really great deal. Thanks videoguys!

Does that offer stand for those of us in the outer suburbs of the global village?

Cheers
Mark

We can ship anywhere in the world, as long as UPS or FedEx can deliver there. With shipping charges & import taxes it will probably be cheaper to find it locally.

Gary
Videoguys.com

Any one using the Firestore FS-4 recording system with a GL-2?

Results?

Ron, I've seen this combo only at trade shows so far, but you'de think they work together very well since both Focus Enhancements and Canon USA have ads out right now that predominately show the FS-4 with a GL2.

See http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=StandardDisplayAct&fcategoryid=102&keycode=camcorder_accessory.

Is there anyway to upgrade the FS-4 in terms of recording formats as they become available in the future? I know that the hard drive is fixed at 40g or 80g, but what about firmware, etc.

I have no problem buying a unit fixed at 40 or 80 gigs, but I won't sink money into something that won't accept emerging recording formats, especially here on the edge of HD, HDV (which I've heard mentioned once in reference to firestore.), etc.

Anyone know if there's room to grow with FS-4 Pro?

Hi Rick,

All the FireStore models except FS-1 are upgradeable in the field with a simple software upload. Stay tuned for more news on HD support.

Hope that helps,

Matt

Hi Ron,

Yes the FS-4 and GL2 are compatible. I was using this setup just today! One thing I didn't know about the GL2, is that it is possible to superimpose date, time and other info over the video on the FireWire out. A lot of people ask us about this and I haven't seen it on many other camcorders.

Matt

I understand that are 2 models, one NTSC and a PAL version,
The file formats i'm interested are 25p. DVX100AE and XL2 PAL are 25P, not 24P, and my question is if FS-4 PAL will have the option to save the files in Quicktime 25P instead of Quicktine 24P.

Mihnea de Vries

Hello Mihnea and welcome aboard DVInfo.net. I don't know for
sure, but I would be highly suprised if the unit is available in
different versions like that. The digital signal is almost identical
in PAL versus NTSC, so I would assume that it works with both
(as is the case with all DV equipment thusfar).

24P isn't supported yet I think. But 30p is and 25p should as well.

Hello Rob

files supprted until now are:

RawDV, AVI Type 1, AVI Type 2, Matrox AVI, Canopus AVI, QuickTime, AVI Type 2 24p, QuickTime 24p

sow there are 24p files but no 25p for PAL, but
they also advertise this:

25Mb/s, 8-bit 4:1:1 (NTSC-DV) or 4:2:0 (PAL-DV) video (model dependent)

that's why i assumed that are 2 diferent models, NTSC and PAL

so it makes no sens for 24P on the PAL version since PAL is 25 fps

i'm still confused and hope Matt will answer this one:)

Thanks...

Would there be any issues splitting the Firewire signal to both the FireStore FS-4 and a laptop running DV Rack?

Firewire will support multiple devices on the same bus.

This should work, but you will most likely need to use a Firewire hub to do this with the FS-4.

Hi Mihnea,

There will be separate PAL and NTSC versions of FS-4. 24p QuickTime and AVI Type 2 will not be choices in the PAL version. If your camcorder supports a 25p mode, you should be able to simply select any of the DTE recording formats and record the 25p to the file. It is not as drastic a difference when compared to NTSC-DV and 24p-DV. We are actually testing this feature shortly, so I will post the results here.

Hope that helps,

Matt

i was comparing the fs-4 and fs-4 pro charts on the focusinfo website.

apparently the fs-4 does not have LOOP PLAYBACK feature.

so lets say i get the fs-4 (non-pro)

and i shoot something, does this mean i cant hit a button and have it playback right on my viewfinder directly?

or does it mean i CAN, but i cant have it go over continuously or.....?

explain, im a tid bit confused

thanks

-arthur

I just looked at the difference between play clip and loop clip on the beta FS-4 which I'm testing. Play clip, plays the clip and stops at the end, loop clip plays the clip and then starts at the beginning of the clip again. It does this until I press the stop key.

I don't know if this really answers your question, because the beta device I have seems to be a mix between the FS-4 and FS-4 pro. But at least we know that Focus is talking about two separate functions here, when it lists loop playback and playback.

Mine came today by UPS---the 40GB bottom of the line. Sorry if a thread like this already exists, I just got excited ...

Heck, there's nothing to this thing! No problem mounting it on my MagiqCam. Shipped with a 1394 cable, too.

Hi John,

Post some pictures! We'd love to see how you are mounting FS-4.

Thanks,
Matt

I just got my FS-4 today and here are some observations with my Sony VX-2100.

Not shure if the FS4 battery is being charged via 1394, I don't see the green led on. I've tried both VCR, Camra, with battery and AC adapter. Only when I connect the AC adapter to the FS-4 I see the green LED on, so I am shure it's charging.

VX-2100 doesn's support syncro slave (without tape) and tapeless recording, must press rec manualy on the FS-4 (not a big deal for me, I can live with that)

I didn't get mine with the FS-4 camera mount kit. The FS-4 has an internal fan that an on-camera mic might pick.

Later tonight I'll test it with Canon GL-2.

Normaly the VX-2100 should shut down after 10min if on battery but with the FS-4 connected it seems to keep the camera alive.

I did a test record and after 30min it's still running. It's awsome.

After shooting some test for about 2 hours, when I connect the FS-4 to my computer and import clips into the bin, Edius just closes and disapear. This on two computers. I did the same thing with Premier Pro 1.5, no problem.

So I guess its Canopus Edius is not compatable with the FS-4

Hi Frank,

We do have an issue right now with Canopus Edius 3. We should have a resolution for this shortly. Previous versions of Edius should be OK.

When FS-4 is connected to another DV video device such as a camcorder or a deck, it does not get power from the 1394 port. When it is connected to some 1394 ports on computers, it is possible to power FS-4 if enough power is coming down the cable. My Power Mac G4 will power an FS-4, but it does not provide enough power to charge the battery.

With the VX2100, you will need a tape in the camcorder in order to use Syncro Slave. This is due to the fact the the VX2100 does not have an external DV control option. As you have pointed out though, it is possible to control record from the FS-4 itself.

Hope that helps,

Matt

The reason Canopus Edius 3.22b shuts down may be the file format. I've tried avi type2 and canopus avi both shuts Edius down.
However when I use quicktime, there is no problem. Edius can read mov files, so that works fine.

hi gang,

can i record directly (firewire) from a fs-4 onto a vcr or dvd?
if yes which brand.

planning to buy a vcr/ dvd combo from b&h could have problems to figure it out.

thanks

karl

Hi Karl,

I don't think that you can record directly from the FS-4. You would have to go through your camera or a digital / analog video converter. But that shouldn't really be a problem since you can use the camera you captured to the FS-4 with, for this purpose (unless it doesn't have a DV in).

And you would need to use a firewire hub to split the signal if you want to do this directly over firewire to the VCR / DVD recorder. Otherwise you would have to record using the composite video signal coming out of the camera or A/D video converter.

I'm not sure that the degradation in video quality would be that noticeable though, going this route. (I know that I am going way out on a limb here) but the quality loss of VHS or the realtime coding of the DVD recorder would subjectively exceed the visible quality difference between the pure DV signal and the composite signal.

But that's just a guess. Someone would have to make real world test to make the comparison to confirm that.

For a second time I have all the buttons on the FS-4 dieing on me. Once I couldn't bring up the FS-4 even connected to AC. Next while the FS-4 was on, sameting. Had to remove battery and start again.

Hi Frank,

Have you contacted Focus tech support? They can be contacted at support@focusinfo.com or at 408-370-9963.

Thanks,

Matt

Having captured nearly three hours at a shoot I needed to download to free up the FS-4 for the next job, so I hooked up the FS-4 to a standard 1394 input on the editing PC. The destination drive was an ATA133 160Gb Maxtor.

I did a 'copy and paste' and waited, and waited, . . . . . It must have taken about 6 hours to download three hours of files.

Is this normal?

Ray Liffen
Intec Services, UK

Ray..

Definately not.....I read somewhere that it is 4 to 5 times faster than real time. however, I just copied off 1GB and it took 30 seconds, so a full Fs4 (40gb) should take about 20 minutes give or take 5 minutes I guess.

Perhaps the issue is with the copy and paste function, try just dragging the folder off the FS4 onto your machine. As its going from one drive to another it should do a copy and not a move..

Mark

specifically, tapeless recording with the remote gpi trigger, camera on shoulder, which means that the fs-4 is mounted behind you, and you can't see it's display... how do you know that it's in record mode?

Thanks Matt,

I would like to remind our members that the FIRST step they should take with regard to solving technical issues with any of our manufacturing sponsors is to contact their Tech Support channel directly. Doing so will produce much faster results than posting on a message board. Message boards are best suited for answering pre-sales questions and discussing usability, and NOT for tech support problems. Hope this helps,

Matt, I was curious why the FS-4 is formatted using FAT32 and also why the rotation is only 5400. Are these two characteristics good enough for DV video capturing?

I'll let Matt handle the FAT32 question, but 4200rpm drive speeds are perfectly adequate for capturing (have done it myself with an FS-1 and a Lacie pocket drive at 4200rpm many times).

5400rpm is plenty of insurance for capture.

I don't have the technical answers, but I was hesitant with the format's restrictions when buying the FS-4s.

That said, I have three. They are FABULOUS! We shoot some long-form things which means lots of QT files to put on the computer. They (so far) have been flawless except for one thing that was totally my fault. I really like the idea of having multiple files instead of one long file so that if there's any problem, I only have a small time to capture off the backup tape instead of having to capture the whole shabang. (I'm talking several hours)

- Steve

p.s. - I wonder if it would be possible to have flash memory instead of a spinning HD.

Hi Wayne,

Chris is correct, 5400RPM as well as 4200RPM are more than adequate for recording DV. We use 5400RPM instead of 4200RPM mainly for performance reasons when the drive is being used for streaming clips directly in an NLE system's timeline...one of the advantages of DTE. The extra speed makes a difference when you are using multiple streams of video.

As for the FAT32 file format, it is used because of its universal compatibility on Mac and PC. The fact that you can connect the drive to a Mac or PC and use the clips on each, is a big plus. For instance, if I record Avid OMF clips, I can use them instantly on an Avid on a Mac or a PC.

Hope that helps,

Matt

What camcorder are you using? Some camcorders like the canon XL1s and XL2 provide the FireStore's status (Rec or Stop) in the viewfinder. Also, our DR-DV5000 offers extensive viewfinder feedback when used with the JVC GY-DV5000/-5001/-5100 camcorders.

Hope that helps.

Matt

Hi Ray,

Mark is correct, it should be fairly quick to copy files off of FS-4 to your computer...at least 3 times faster than real-time. It does depend on a lot of variables though (how many peripherals are on the FireWire bus, computer speed, drive speed, fragmentation etc.)

Hope that helps.

Matt

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Kohl : Hi Karl,

I don't think that you can record directly from the FS-4. You would have to go through your camera or a digital / analog video converter. But that shouldn't really be a problem since you can use the camera you captured to the FS-4 with, for this purpose (unless it doesn't have a DV in).

And you would need to use a firewire hub to split the signal if you want to do this directly over firewire to the VCR / DVD recorder. Otherwise you would have to record using the composite video signal coming out of the camera or A/D video converter.

I'm not sure that the degradation in video quality would be that noticeable though, going this route. (I know that I am going way out on a limb here) but the quality loss of VHS or the realtime coding of the DVD recorder would subjectively exceed the visible quality difference between the pure DV signal and the composite signal.

But that's just a guess. Someone would have to make real world test to make the comparison to confirm that. -->>>

hello daniel,

thanks for your advice. i am getting my new toy, vcr/ dvd bidirectional recorder incl firewire connections this week and the fs-4 on monday (b&h)
i am also in a theater (opera) on sunday for a live recording, but will not have the fs-4, so i guess i have to a little bit at home.

will post the result.

thanaks

greetings

Anyone,

I saw the list of compatible cameras for the fs-4 but the ad sounds like any dv camera with firewire will work. What about my low end, consumer, Canon zr25?

Thanks,
John

PS. I'm using LiquidEdition 5.5 on an AMD platform...any issues there I should be aware of? Like, is raw dv the same as native dv?

What about the JVC DV-GY500?

Now that I have a production model FS-4, I think that I can safely make some observations about it.

First off, I'm about to list a few shortcomings of the FS-4, in the hopes of helping anyone interested in getting one of these units, make an educated decision. The truth is that the FS-4 is a very good tool. It has a lot of nice features, and the capacity to be software upgraded over the course of time may (I hope) reverse some of faults I have found.

The FS-4 would be useable for all applications in the field where tape is now used except for these two main exceptions. The FS-4's most significant shortcoming is its fan. The fan is quiet in it initial running state, but depending on the surrounding temperature and the intensity of use, the fan kicks into second stage at around forty five minutes of continuous capturing. Stage two is too loud for professional applications where audio is an issue. I will not be able to use the FS-4 in situations where professional audio recording is being done. The FS-4 is perfect for people who are shooting events, or are shooting in situations where there is constant and sufficiently loud ambient sound to cover the fan noise.

I imagine that the fan is a consequence of the FS-4's plastic housing. The FS-3's housing is made of metal and serves as a heat sink. I don't recall there being a fan issue with the FS-3.

I wonder if it would be possible to retrofit the FS-4 with better heat sinks.

In my opinion the fan noise is the single most significant pit-fall on the FS-4.

Another thing, which prevents the FS-4 from replacing tape completely, is that it seems the FS-4 cannot create files with four channel 12 bit audio, which the Canon XL-1, XL-1s, and XL-2 offer as an audio recording option when recording to tape.

I hope that this can be fixed with a software update from Focus.

Here are some things to watch out for when using the FS-4 in the field:

It is a good idea to put a piece of tape over the DV I/O Firewire jack when going out to record. At least on two occasions it took me longer to set up a shot because I had plugged the FW cable to the camera into the wrong jack on the FS-4. (Retro cache won't help if the firewire cable is not hooked up correctly)

Practice pushing the RECORD key twice to start recording in LOCAL mode and the STOP key twice when ending a recording. Pushing REC on the FS-4 once to start recording is an easy mistake to make and will result in lost footage, or more accurately, not recorded footage. Not pushing STOP twice on the FS-4 will also result in corrupted footage (the last file segment) if this is not done before turning the unit off.

I don't know why Focus decided on this operation scheme but it is unintuitive, and tricky. I'm guessing that they had to do it this way for patent reasons, or something.

These are the main points that I think people should be aware of when purchasing an FS-4.

If anyone has contradicting experiences with the FS-4, especially concerning the fan noise, please post them.

I have an issue with my FS4-Pro that the backlight flickers on and off and sometimes goes off and comes back on when it feels like it.

Also this morning just noticed that the FS4 (non pro) only ever shows a RED led now for charging status, on both batteries !!!

The battery looks like its getting a charge as the one I left on overnight shows full in the display. The charge indicator was working before...As I'm in the UK is it best to call Holdan in the UK or wait until the time is right to call Focus in the US.

We have used the FS4 a number of times in the field and it appears to work well. I hope these are fixable using software upgrades as opposed to hardware faults..

Regards

Mark

Played some more with the pro and no pro versions.

The non pro version now only shows red for the charging light and will NOT charge any batteries. I have tried a different PSU, tried it via firewire and still the issue. I managed to charge the batteries on my pro version so looks like a fault with the non pro version. :-((

Also the pro version still has that annoying flicker and sometimes refuses to give any backlight at all, I will contact Holdan today and see what can be done, although i know stocks are very low.

Mark

After turning my unit (FS-4) on within 15 minutes the fan speeds up to where you would not want it mounted on the camera as the onboard mic would pick it up. I also noticed that my status led is always orangish redish. I

I want to warn people about using the FS-4 with a powered FW hub.

I have made the suggestion of using the FS-4 together with a firewire hub as a way of splitting the DV signal coming from the camera, in a previous thread. The reasoning behind this would was to make possible, making a recording to the FS-4 and another recording device, like a computer or DVD recorder, at the same time.

This set-up also did work with the beta FS-4 I was testing at the time. However, the production model FS-4 I swapped for the Beta device I had, has now been damaged by this set up.

I am pretty sure that this is due to the fact that this time there was power on the hub (which was admittedly stupid of me to have over looked) and there was none when I did this this set-up previously.

So please learn from my mistake.

DO NOT HOOK THE FS-4 TO A 6 PIN FW CABLE CONNECTED TO A POWERED FW HUB!

The power pin on the FS-4's DV I/O jack is for some reason not capped and will probably blow-out the FW DV I/O port on the FS-4 if supplied with power.