I was just reading about the Bogen 501 and 503 heads.

I was thinking of going with the 503 because of the spring. I just read in a different thread that the spring was kind of bad because it tries to re-center itself.

I use the 3063 right now and while it's good (maybe great) for handicams, I haven't been totally happy with it on the XL1. Once you add some drag to keep it from "dropping," it gets too sticky for my taste. I shoot from a balcony down a level, sometimes with the 1.6 extender and felt the spring in the 503 might be better.

So which one is it? the 501 or 503?

I'd just like to balance out the center of gravity. Any heads in the $200 range which allow this? I might just make a counter weight and live with it.

Also what about the "ball" designs?

Hi JoPhoto,

Despite all the advise to the contrary, I've been "getting by" fine with the 501 for quite a while. It does require a bit steadier hand...and in this respect, buying the extra pan handle for the left side can help quite a bit. I trust everyone's opinion here that the 503 is smoother...I just didn't have that available on hand to try when I bought my 501.

My thinking is this, though...until my budget allows laying down the cash for something like a Miller setup (something I drooled over when I bought the 501 but couldn't bring myself to putting down that much cash on the table), getting by as cheaply as possible is best.

In other words, if you're dead set on getting a Mercedes convertible, why buy a new Ford Taurus in the meantime? Just get the cheapest transportation you can find that is dependable and keep saving for that dream car!

I here everyone talking about Miller now. I was wondering
if this company has a website and in what price range they
sell their "perfect" systems.

Thanks

Complete Millers, sticks and head, are close to $2000 USD. Will get more info for you as soon as I can. They are definitely out of *my* price range but I'd love to have one.

Does anyone have any info on the Libec/Mathews series, specifically the LS-35? I was told by a dealer that sells both Bogen and Mathews that the LS-35 was by far a better tripod and better deal for the money. He was talking in the $550 range for complete setup, head, legs, spreader. Any info would be great as I am planning on getting something soon!

Chris

Rob:

I found this site on Google concerning Miller tripods. I didn't actually check out the site, but it seems to be the Miller company.

http://www.miller.com.au/miller_network.htm

Rob

Check out this link

http://www.miller.com.au/Product_Centre/index.htm

The DS5 and DS10 series systems are designed to suit the GL1/XL1

oops!

I later checked the site from google, and it didn't lead anywhere.

Sorry!

Thanks, checking it out

FWIW, I recently got a Miller DS10 rig for my XL1 / XL1s. It's absolutely a higher level of product engineering than the Bogen/Manfrotto line. And, indeed, it is designed with the XL1's characteristics in mind.

I use an XL-1 with a Bogen 3221 tripod, with a 501 head, and a Bogen compact leveling head (BG3502, Adorama,$60+/-
Great Combination!

I guess I should re-name the post, $500 tripods. Or Bogen 501 / 503 comparison.

My main concern is the droopyness of heads when cradling the xl1, sometimes with a 1.6x.

The spring factor is what interests as well as frightens me. I want to be able to have the head be loose enough for small movements, without the droop or springback complications.

We use the Bogen 501 with our XL-1. With just the standard camera, I have found that it has to be place as far back as possible to help prevent the droop. You may also have to tighten it up slightly which can sometimes lead to some jerky movements up and down. With the MA-100 and wireless receiver on the back, I have to place the camera as far forward as possible to get the right balance. But, the head itself performs very well. I believe it would perform even better using the optional second handle. And, you may want to consider using a longer handle to help smooth out the movements.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Klein : I was just reading about the Bogen 501 and 503 heads.

I use the 3063 right now and while it's good (maybe great) for handicams, I haven't been totally happy with it on the XL1. Once you add some drag to keep it from "dropping," it gets too sticky for my taste. I shoot from a balcony down a level, sometimes with the 1.6 extender and felt the spring in the 503 might be better.

So which one is it? the 501 or 503?-->>>

I know it was a long time ago since your post, but I'm in a similar decision point now with a vx2000, and I was wondering how your decision "panned" out? Which did you choose to replace your 3063, and was it a worthwhile upgrade?
Thanks

I've posted this answer a couple of time here,
but when I was a NAB I tried every tripod I could find.
Miller, Libtec, Cartoni, Bogen, Sachtler, Gitzo, O'Conner and Vinten.

If you pay $2000, you'll like what you buy, don't misunderstand me, BUT
I went with the Vinten Vison 3 two stage. The cool thing about the
Vinten is that you can switch springs, so just the other day I went
from using a peewee EZ-30 on one shoot to a big Panasonic AJ-D400
the next. The bad thing is how "unengineered" the tripod plate
attaches.

IMO, the Vinten was also the smoothest of all. I am able to even
pan and get great results when using an XL1 w/ EOS/100-400 mm
at full zoom.

Sam,

What kind of budget do you have? You might want to look at the Gitzo's. I played with one briefly a few weeks ago and several members have spoken very highly of them. If you can afford the Vinten or Sachtler, they are great (I use a Vinten, also). But in the under $1,000 range the Gitzo's might be the best choice.

Ken and Frank like the Miller and it is under $1,000 also.

I use the 501 head for my GL1 and find it pretty O.K. when configured properly.

For my XL1s I just bought the Bogen 505 Multispring Pro. I learnt how to use it and it is pretty smooth. Understanding exactly how much weight you are loading and using the proper plate length… It is a balancing act! It is smooth as a baby.

Now the drawbacks: a) the locking mechanism can be noisy (I figured out how to lock and unlock a balance setting without making noise and scaring my subject; b) the springs are not very seamless to exchange. One should be able to exchange them on the fly when one changes lenses…( if need it) and last but not least… c) It should be priced a bit more competitively.

I guesstimate that the price will go down once its market gets going.

It does stay where you want it when you want it… even without locking it in place, when the balance is configured properly. Not very difficult.

Thanks for the suggestions, but especially due to a recent v8 purchase ;-) I'm afraid I have to stay in the low bracket for a 2nd video head for now. Jacque's original question brought up the 3063 (which I have too) vs. 501 vs. 503. It seems many prefer 503 to 501, but it was right up my alley to compare those to the 3063. I was wondering if the 501 or 503 were worth the upgrade vs. 3063 in that price range. I guess the 503 probably still wins out there, but I was hoping to hear from someone of similar cicumstances. Hopefully next year I'll be choosing among the qualities you've recommended... AFTER the v8's paid off. Thanks for sharing your experiences, much to look forward to. Wow Jacques, congrats on your upgrade!

Miller's are handled in Japan by this company.
Komamura Corporation
Kumy Takahashi
3-2-4 Nihonbashi Ningyocho, Chuo-ku,
Tokyo 103-0013
Tel: ‚O‚R�|‚R‚W‚O‚W�|‚O‚P‚P‚W
Fax: ‚O‚R�|‚R‚U‚R‚X�|‚R‚Q‚R‚X
kumy@komamura.co.jp
http://www.komamura.co.jp

>You may also have to tighten it up slightly which can sometimes >lead to some jerky movements up and down.

I'm using the 501 head with the VX2000. The panning seems
to be ok, but as the poster above wrote, you have to tighten
the vertical tilt. With my vx2000, this leads to jerkiness.
I suppose I'm complaining only because I didn't reach the ideal.
I plan to extend the handle to see if that helps.

John, the Miller DS5 is fine for the XL1, but the DS10 would be even better, especially for a loaded one. The DS5 sells for $1500 Canadian. That's well under $1000 US. Here is an e-mail contact for the Canadian Miller distributor/dealer

peter@leoscamera.com

If you want to get even a cheaper price from Australia (where they're made), go to the Miller DS5 thread in this forum. There you will find prices for both the DS5 and DS10 and AU dealer info. The DS5 from Down-Under is about $1000 Canadian.

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Complete Millers, sticks and head, are close to $2000 USD. -->>>

Chris, what about this model (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh2.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___179035___MIDS5AGK___REG___CatID=0___SID=F7 344A0A970)?

I've been pretty happy with the 501, but recently have been shooting some extreme telephoto shots, and it's really easy to ruin them with a jerky movement. I'm using a PDX-10, so camera weight is not an issue.

Any other recommendations?

In the under $1,000 category all the heads are fluid effect heads. Spend more than $1,000 and you can start looking at true fluid heads from Miller, Vinten and Sachtler and O'Connor. The fluid effect heads may not be suitable for XL1's loaded with many accessories. They should perform fine for smaller, lighter, cameras.

The Vinten Vision 3 takes different spring "weights" so you can
go with anything from a peewee single chip on up to a DSR-500WS
with brick. I've used the #2l, #3 & #9 springs and been really pleased.
Described by a fellow shooter as "walking with marshmellow shoes."

Jacques,

I am seriously thinking of upgrading from my Vinten Pro 5 Tripod to the Vinten Vision 3 with two stage legs. I'm starting to find the Pro 5's limitations. It's either that or my expectations are rising, probably both! Not yet sure whether to go for Aluminium or Carbon Fibre and have always used the standard ground level spreader but I understand the mid-level spreader would be better for my kind of use but it's price is unbelievable. It's all Wildlife fieldwork with the XL1 which the majority of time would either have the manual 16x lens or Canon EF 100-400mm lens attached to it with lens support rods and the MA200 with batteries etc.

So I'm pleased with your comment about panning with the 100-400 lens.

What do you mean by the comments on the plate though? Is it really a bad thing and is the cost of the Mid-Level spreader worth it? Will I see a real improvement in stability?

Thanks

Gareth

<<<-- Originally posted by Gareth Trezise
I am seriously thinking of upgrading from my Vinten Pro 5 Tripod to the Vinten Vision 3 with two stage legs. I'm starting to find the Pro 5's limitations.>>>

What limitations are you speaking of?

<<<I understand the mid-level spreader would be better for my kind of use but it's price is unbelievable. It's all Wildlife fieldwork with the XL1 which the majority of time would either have the manual 16x lens or Canon EF 100-400mm lens attached to it with lens support rods and the MA200 with batteries etc.>>>

I went with the aluminium legs and the standard ground spreader.
The ground spreader isn't the greatest when used in brush or
marsh, but I haven't really had that much issue with it.
The fibre carbon legs were a chunk more money and only saved 1lb.

<<So I'm pleased with your comment about panning with the 100-400 lens.>>

Well, I didn't say it was easy!!! It is NOT easy to get usable footage
when zoomed fully in as you'll find, BUT at least it is possible . . . I've done it.
I wouldn't even try it with a bogen.

<<<What do you mean by the comments on the plate though? Is it really a bad thing and is the cost of the Mid-Level spreader worth it? Will I see a real improvement in stability?>>>

The plate attaches with a plastic part that looks like a double ended C wrench
that holds the two mounting screws. The non threaded one doesn't fit into
the XL1 hole it is supposed to (so I don't use it) and that leaves only one
screw holding the plate to the camera. That means that the camera can
spin on the plate unless you hog it down pretty tight. The plate is unlabeled,
so until you label it, it is easy to put it on backwards.

Sorry, but I haven't used the mid level spreader so I can't comment.

Thanks Jacques.

I'm just not finding it smooth enough. Maybe it has seen better days and is wearing out, I don't know. Either way the Vision 3 must be a better product than the Pro 5. Not knocking it though. It has served me well and I won't be getting rid of it.

Thanks for the explanation on the plate. Have spoken to them and they confirm with some they did have problems but the part has now been rectified. You should ask them to post you it. Can't cost them much for that.

A local dealer is getting both legs in for me to try out and they now do a package price with the mid-level spreader. You don't have to have the ground-level as well. So I'll look at both and see what suits me best.

Gareth